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Should people be forced to have limits on humor? Should there be a line that no one should cross?

OR

Should people be allowed to say whatever they want whenever they want?

In your opinion, should words hurt? Or is it only when words become action that people should be held liable?

Comedians, for example. Should they be forced to have a line they aren't allowed to cross?

Many comedians have been attacked for using heavy racial humor and especially jokes about rape in their stand-up routines.

Anyway, do you think people should be forced to acknowledge some level of political correctness, or should they be allowed to say whatever they want whenever they want, as long it involves humor or it's just a joke?

Idea for this thread came from this:
https://twitter.com/pengdangcomedy/status/1392147842731499520

George Carlin's thoughts on Larry King back in the day:
F8yV8xUorQ8

Thoughts?

I think dark humour stems largely from the fact that men aren't able to discuss the things that are disturbing or distressing so we do it through the veil of comedy. I think it has a valid place in society.

Originally posted by samhain
I think dark humour stems largely from the fact that men aren't able to discuss the things that are disturbing or distressing so we do it through the veil of comedy. I think it has a valid place in society. Maybe dark humor wasn't the right word?

More like blatantly edgy comedy?

Stuff that's blatantly racist, rude, over-the-top, etc.

Through the lens of humor we can take a good hard look at ourselves sometimes.

What I will say is that I don't think people should be criminally prosecuted for their humor and never should but that doesn't mean you are free from the consequences of using that type of humor. If people don't find your humor funny because it crosses lines for them and they decide to stop booking you at shows that's the way it is.

Or free to be called out for the harmful propaganda some comedy/humor has embedded in it. Like for instance calling a man queer for not being manly enough has created unhealthy standards men are forced to follow for fear of ridicule.

Originally posted by Newjak
Through the lens of humor we can take a good hard look at ourselves sometimes.

What I will say is that I don't think people should be criminally prosecuted for their humor and never should but that doesn't mean you are free from the consequences of using that type of humor. If people don't find your humor funny because it crosses lines for them and they decide to stop booking you at shows that's the way it is.

Or free to be called out for the harmful propaganda some comedy/humor has embedded in it. Like for instance calling a man queer for not being manly enough has created unhealthy standards men are forced to follow for fear of ridicule. Well that's what I'm asking.

Is it fair to call these comedians out if you feel personally they've crossed a line?

Although I guess this is also in line with "should a person get punched/slapped for using racial/homophobic slurs?"

Similar argument I think.

This isn't a new debate, it's been going on since comedy first began I feel, though in recent years it's gathered more traction.

Is it fair to call the people who stopped booking them a "bunch of sensitive/easily offended pussies" as so many comedians do after such an incident occurs?

I feel this comes down mainly to people's personalities, there's no right or wrong answer here. I do think a lot of comedians feel threatened by political correctness and that it ruins their humor by calling them out on jokes in general.

There was also a clip back in the day that I was gonna post in my opening post of some Danny Devito-looking comedian making blatantly racist asian jokes and some asian dude stormed the stage and punched him. Idk where that clip is now though, couldn't find it for the life of me.

Who was wrong in that situation? The guy for using the blatantly racist humor, or the asian dude for hitting him?

I'll post the clip if I can find it.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
There was also a clip back in the day that I was gonna post in my opening post of some Danny Devito-looking comedian making blatantly racist asian jokes and some asian dude stormed the stage and punched him. Idk where that clip is now though, couldn't find it for the life of me.

Who was wrong in that situation? The guy for using the blatantly racist humor, or the asian dude for hitting him?

I'll post the clip if I can find it.

The Asian for hitting him.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Should people be forced to have limits on humor? Should there be a line that no one should cross?

OR

Should people be allowed to say whatever they want whenever they want?

In your opinion, should words hurt? Or is it only when words become action that people should be held liable?

Comedians, for example. Should they be forced to have a line they aren't allowed to cross?

Many comedians have been attacked for using heavy racial humor and especially jokes about rape in their stand-up routines.

Anyway, do you think people should be forced to acknowledge some level of political correctness, or should they be allowed to say whatever they want whenever they want, as long it involves humor or it's just a joke?

Idea for this thread came from this:
https://twitter.com/pengdangcomedy/status/1392147842731499520

George Carlin's thoughts on Larry King back in the day:
F8yV8xUorQ8

Thoughts?


In comedy, not really, as it's understood it's comedy. People also have a right to be offended by the "comedy" and they can choose to not patronize the person.

eg When I saw Dave Chappelle standup in San Francisco, I was aware he'd probably say somethings I don't agree with and that's okay. He's still overall funny, regardless of the shit I don't agree with.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Well that's what I'm asking.

Is it fair to call these comedians out if you feel personally they've crossed a line?

Although I guess this is also in line with "should a person get punched/slapped for using racial/homophobic slurs?"

Similar argument I think.

This isn't a new debate, it's been going on since comedy first began I feel, though in recent years it's gathered more traction.

Is it fair to call the people who stopped booking them a "bunch of sensitive/easily offended pussies" as so many comedians do after such an incident occurs?

I feel this comes down mainly to people's personalities, there's no right or wrong answer here. I do think a lot of comedians feel threatened by political correctness and that it ruins their humor by calling them out on jokes in general. It is fair.

The comedians can call the bookers whatever they want as well.

Although if we're getting the realms of hate speech that's a different talking point to me. Like if someone is making blatantly racists jokes and invoking KKK talking points but using the veil of humor as shield that doesn't really fly to me.

After all social stigmas that are harmful to a group don't lose that harm simply because you've labeled those words as a joke.

Basically I have no sympathies for people who try to use the term it's just a joke as a get out of jail free card because they don't like being called out on their BS.

Just a joke is an easy get out. I use it all the time when I want to say shit to people that isn't a joke and I really mean, this ploy started around 6 or 7 yrs old for me!

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Is it fair to call the people who stopped booking them a "bunch of sensitive/easily offended pussies" as so many comedians do after such an incident occurs?


I worked in a comedy club for a few years and my brother was a stand-up comic for 10+ years and I can tell you with absolute certainty that it takes a hell of a lot to get a venue to 'cancel' you. Might not be strictly true in this age of heightened sensitivity but I don't think comedy audiences have changed a great deal, they're still comprised of people who have paid to laugh and are generally a bit harder to offend, therefore not that many complaints to management. Can't be an easily offended p*ssy and be a comedy club booker.

The real trouble comes from people using humour in the workplace or elsewhere in everyday life with people who aren't expecting it and who might not understand their sense of humour, that's where offense gets taken.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
how do you determine malicious intent and hatred though? Generally if you call them out on it they easily acknowledge the terribleness of what they're saying.

Others well they will try to defend it.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Should people be forced to have limits on humor? Should there be a line that no one should cross?

OR

Should people be allowed to say whatever they want whenever they want?


Freedom of speech is good for society, too bad we don't have that since the Government can prosecute you for exercising your right to speech.

Originally posted by Newjak
Generally if you call them out on it they easily acknowledge the terribleness of what they're saying.

Others well they will try to defend it. What if they say, ha, it's just a joke?

qLGvWEnbg3c

qtj7LDYaufM

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
What if they say, ha, it's just a joke?

qLGvWEnbg3c I think that generally fits the second point of them defending it.

If it's just a joke they can still acknowledge what they said is terrible.

Originally posted by Klaw
Freedom of speech is good for society, too bad we don't have that since the Government can prosecute you for exercising your right to speech. That's not the point of the debate, should people have to acknowledge political correctness and take it seriously? Is what I'm asking basically.

Or should it be blatantly ignored as long as it's a joke. (I'm aware several people have already given their opinions but I'm looking for whoever wants to share their thoughts.)

Like someone says "jesus christ dude do you realize what you're saying", is the appropriate response to that "lol look at this wimp taking a joke seriously"?

or more in the line of "yeah it's ****ed up, but it's just a joke."

IMO, people on both sides can be as sensitive and immature as each other "oh boo-hoo he didn't find my joke about rape funny, what a ****ing pansy."

"Jesus christ, he made a joke about rape, what a ****ing douchebag."

Although you'll have tons of people backing both sides, tons for political correctness and tons actively against it. I think both have a point.

It's hard to talk about this mainly without bringing up whether the stuff is okay to be said in daily life.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
qtj7LDYaufM That's a 29-minute video, literally the definition of TL;DR.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
That's a 29-minute video, literally the definition of TL;DR.

Watch it, you might learn something.

Originally posted by Newjak
I think that generally fits the second point of them defending it.

If it's just a joke they can still acknowledge what they said is terrible. Agreed, as Stewart Lee does in the clip.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
What if they say, ha, it's just a joke?

qLGvWEnbg3c

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Agreed, as Stewart Lee does in the clip. That is a good clip lol

Originally posted by Newjak
That is a good clip lol If you've never watched Stewart Lee you should, he truly is a very clever comedian. Perhaps the cleverest in the UK.

Rob Newman is good too, a tiny bit sillier than Stewart Lee but a very smart guy. Rob Newman is what you'd get if you injected 2% of Lee Evans into Stewart Lee.

Originally posted by samhain
Rob Newman is good too, a tiny bit sillier than Stewart Lee but a very smart guy. Rob Newman is what you'd get if you injected 2% of Lee Evans into Stewart Lee. Yeah, I love Rob Newman. Good description. I have been a fan since Newman and Baddiel, so long ago. He is a top Historian, so he has that level of understanding to add. His poetry and writing is damn good too.

The idea of political correctness in comedy being some sort of problem is stupid in my opinion.

Comedians like to say they are the REAL truth tellers, they see through it all. Or at least are supposed to. But so many of them can't handle being told their joke is offensive. Like, not everyone is gonna think your joke is funny. And being told you aren't funny isn't being "cancelled."

Someone being like "oh I don't watch his stand up anymore his jokes suck" is not some kind of grand censorship or an attempt to silence people.

I don't think any topic is something impossible to joke about, but jokes can be told in so many ways, it's the delivery of the joke, it's the phrasing - so many things come into play.

Originally posted by Quincy
The idea of political correctness in comedy being some sort of problem is stupid in my opinion.

Comedians like to say they are the REAL truth tellers, they see through it all. Or at least are supposed to. But so many of them can't handle being told their joke is offensive. Like, not everyone is gonna think your joke is funny. And being told you aren't funny isn't being "cancelled."

Someone being like "oh I don't watch his stand up anymore his jokes suck" is not some kind of grand censorship or an attempt to silence people.

I don't think any topic is something impossible to joke about, but jokes can be told in so many ways, it's the delivery of the joke, it's the phrasing - so many things come into play. I would add it's also the intention of the joke.

Dave Chappell gets away with it, for some reason. He is a modern day George Carlin in a sense, without the swearing

Originally posted by cdtm
Dave Chappell gets away with it, for some reason. He is a modern day George Carlin in a sense, without the swearing

Chappelle is a ****ing genius, though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Chappelle is a ****ing genius, though.

I like how the usual suspects defending Comedy Central and shady business dealings of the entertainment industry and making no headway at all. They use all the usual tricks like "Well he signed a contract!", or "They were taking a gamble, they deserve rights to his name for eternity". Nobody is buying.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Chappelle is a ****ing genius, though.

Another thing I love is how The Guardian, Vice, Vox and such have tried so hard to take him to task for his comedy. "There are real world consequences for his jokes", one Guardian article said.

And it just does nothing to him. He is the definition of "bullet proof."

He must have a lot of friends in high places though. Or be worth too much money to care what other people think.

Anybody else would have been fired a long time ago.

I love how The Guardian, Vice, Vox and such have tried so hard to take Dave Chappelle to task for his comedy. "There are real world consequences for his jokes", one Guardian article said.

https://www.pantagraph.com/opinion/columnists/page-dave-chappelle-pushes-the-same-boundaries-that-once-got-lenny-bruce-arrested/article_94d5e56b-58ec-5d28-99c8-214ccb0fd061.html

Or point out how someone else got arrested for similar comedy.

And it just does nothing to him. He is the definition of "bullet proof."

He must have a lot of friends in high places though. Or be worth too much money to care what other people think.

Anybody else would have been fired a long time ago.

So something occurs to me.


The religious Right has ever been against "obscenity", like scantily clad women or sex in media.


And the left has stepped up against objectification of women in media.


The religious right and the left align on this issue.



I was joking when I called the left wing of the us an actual far right wing, but this is really ****ing convenient. The bible thumpers got exactly what they wanted there.

The more brutally offensive the better, quick frankly.

Anthony Jeselnik's Eric Clapton joke.
Ricky Gervias' "well make something up" joke
Frankie Boyle's Richard Hammond joke

They all pale in comparison to Jerry Sadowitz though. Last time I seen him he was making jokes about a celebrity that had committed suicide the day before. Jokes about the Grenfell Tower fire that happened about a week before. He just does not care.

People can say whatever they want. But there will be consequences for those words... Somebody making rape jokes offends me. So I am free to never book a comedian who is using them, and spreading the word that they use rape jokes, so anyone who is also offended can avoid booking them.

Obviously libel and slander cross the line and are no longer protected by free speech. (As Sidney Powell is discovering).

If I am seeing racism or sexism, I'm going to call it out, no matter who is saying it. I don't care if you're joking, I'll tell you: "well it's not funny, don't say that.". And if you persist, you bet your ass we are taking that to HR. That's me using my freedom of speech to control my own environment. If HR agrees with me, you'll still have your freedom of speech, but you can exercise it at a different private company.

I remember Patrice's debate during a program with that uptight offended lady. Just as she finished telling that such jokes are NEVER funny he responded with a joke that made the entire studio lose their sh!t including cameramen. You really had to listen to Patrice outside of his stand up to fully appreciate him. RIP.

Originally posted by truejedi
People can say whatever they want. But there will be consequences for those words... Somebody making rape jokes offends me. So I am free to never book a comedian who is using them, and spreading the word that they use rape jokes, so anyone who is also offended can avoid booking them.

Obviously libel and slander cross the line and are no longer protected by free speech. (As Sidney Powell is discovering).

If I am seeing racism or sexism, I'm going to call it out, no matter who is saying it. I don't care if you're joking, I'll tell you: "well it's not funny, don't say that.". And if you persist, you bet your ass we are taking that to HR. That's me using my freedom of speech to control my own environment. If HR agrees with me, you'll still have your freedom of speech, but you can exercise it at a different private company. But when does it cross the line into slander? And how can everyone agree when the line is drawn? You can't. There are a lot of people literally here on KMC who would call you an ass or a party pooper for calling out that behaviour because they're "just joking."

You can be verbally attacked on both sides of the fence no matter what you're for or against.

This new generation has brought new people who are trying to increase sensitivity, and again this has also spurred on people who feel threatened by this and try to make a stand against political correctness. "I can say what I want when I want, you can't do shit to me, I can call you a n*gger 50 times if I want, it's free speech."

I don't believe it's wrong to say the n-word with a hard r and get punched. Why should you expect no repercussions? Just because you thought it was a joke everyone else should agree and if they don't then they're just "snowflakes" who can't take a joke.

It's not that people should care that you're offended, but they also take the piss out of you and mock you openly if you are, even if you don't speak up, if you act offended it's still grounds to mock you.

Like my trigger words for example are calling someone else an autist or a retard, that shit pisses me off, but if I say it bothers me, or anyone says it bothers them, they are mocked for it like it's some abnormality. That's at least been MY experience.

Originally posted by samhain
Also the fact that Harvey is a fvcking beast, I remember seeing a picture of him when he was about 10 and he just looked like he could fold you up and throw you into a wall.

Hello you C+++! that clip is wrong but funny

He's 29 stone I believe.

Originally posted by truejedi
People can say whatever they want. But there will be consequences for those words... Somebody making rape jokes offends me. So I am free to never book a comedian who is using them, and spreading the word that they use rape jokes, so anyone who is also offended can avoid booking them.

Obviously libel and slander cross the line and are no longer protected by free speech. (As Sidney Powell is discovering).

If I am seeing racism or sexism, I'm going to call it out, no matter who is saying it. I don't care if you're joking, I'll tell you: "well it's not funny, don't say that.". And if you persist, you bet your ass we are taking that to HR. That's me using my freedom of speech to control my own environment. If HR agrees with me, you'll still have your freedom of speech, but you can exercise it at a different private company.

Honestly, I'm ok with individuals speaking out.


The thing I'm against is "false concensus", or as Chomsky put it "manufacturing consent".

As in, Fox News magnifies opinion that agrees with their agenda, while ignoring other voices.


Or if a movie had a Youtube channel, and deleted all reasonable complaints and left the troll comments in place.


For example. The point is, distorting a narrative is not cool.

Originally posted by truejedi
People can say whatever they want. But there will be consequences for those words... Somebody making rape jokes offends me. So I am free to never book a comedian who is using them, and spreading the word that they use rape jokes, so anyone who is also offended can avoid booking them.

Obviously libel and slander cross the line and are no longer protected by free speech. (As Sidney Powell is discovering).

If I am seeing racism or sexism, I'm going to call it out, no matter who is saying it. I don't care if you're joking, I'll tell you: "well it's not funny, don't say that.". And if you persist, you bet your ass we are taking that to HR. That's me using my freedom of speech to control my own environment. If HR agrees with me, you'll still have your freedom of speech, but you can exercise it at a different private company. Missed this, good post!

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Hello you C+++! that clip is wrong but funny

He's 29 stone I believe.


Jeez, difficult to see how 2 tiny people like Katie Price and Dwight Yorke could produce such large offspring.

Donald Trump tried to punish Comedians for joking about him.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Donald Trump tried to punish Comedians for joking about him. well, he has the right to express his opposition, but the court makes the ultimate decision.

Originally posted by Blakemore
well, he has the right to express his opposition, but the court makes the ultimate decision. Donald Trump tried to manipulate the courts to serve him.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Donald Trump tried to manipulate the courts to serve him. but he got khanned.

Originally posted by Blakemore
but he got khanned. I think Boris went a bit far at question time tbh re: Rape jokes etc.

I'm just saying you shouldn't walk around with a bunch of your mates calling random black men passing by you "*******" just to make your friends laugh.

If you get punched that is on you. If you're making someone the butt of the joke and it bothers them, and you keep at it despite them continuing to tell you to stop, politely, and they get up and chin you, that is on you. You cannot get angry at a person for having the simple capacity to feel offended at something you've done.

I'm sure everyone on here has at least once been irritated enough by a "joke" that it started an argument, hell maybe even turned into a physical altercation (though that's for more serious shit like blatant unfunny racism for the sake of being racist, or being overtly rude and edgy to the down syndrome guy in the group.)

The fact that the internet exists is a godsend for most people here as it gives them a platform of anonymity to do and say whatever the hell they want when they'd look at someone like a crazy person making the same jokes irl.