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The Superman killer vs the Prince of Power in a h2h slugfest, who wins?

Herc kills him

Originally posted by carver9
Herc kills him How? DD is technically close peers in strength and durability to Superman. Superman is significantly stronger and somewhat more durable than Hercules.

For each hit, DD would do more damage to Hercules than he did to Superman and also for each hit, Hercules would do less damage to DD than Superman did to DD.

Originally posted by carver9
Herc kills him

How?

Doomsday kills him with ease.

DOS Doomsday destroyed the Justice League and went to a double KO vs a serious Superman. This is spite against Hercules.

You guys must surely realize by now that Carver no longer even pretends to debate.......

I remember Herc wrecking a team once during a redemption arc he had. But DoS faced far greater foes. I don't see him putting Supes on the ropes like DD did.

Doomsday is just a mute Rhino, Herc breaks him.

Herc gets his licks in, but otherwise gets beaten to a bloody pulp.

Herc gets mauled. He'd do well for a time, but he'd eventually get the shit beaten out of him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You guys must surely realize by now that Carver no longer even pretends to debate....... Sad.........

Dark, your tactic is one of the reason why I think Herc wins this. We had a debate a while back about the Avengers vs Hulk and you mentioned how powerful the Avengers was in the Avengers title which is the reason the fight wasn't that impressive. If we limit this fight by only using fts directly from DOS books, Herc wins this with ease. It's kind of like WWH vs whomever. We use fts directly from that story, nothing after or before. Why treat Doomsday differently here. Now if you agree with what I am saying here, I do not mind debating this topic.

dos

Originally posted by carver9
Dark, your tactic is one of the reason why I think Herc wins this. We had a debate a while back about the Avengers vs Hulk and you mentioned how powerful the Avengers was in the Avengers title which is the reason the fight wasn't that impressive. If we limit this fight by only using fts directly from DOS books, Herc wins this with ease. It's kind of like WWH vs whomever. We use fts directly from that story, nothing after or before. Why treat Doomsday differently here. Now if you agree with what I am saying here, I do not mind debating this topic.

That wasn't quite the same thing, at all.

My point back then was that in team books, SOME characters are written to be way more powerful than they are in their solo titles.

I can easily name one - Batman. In his solo titles, he struggles in h2h with Joker, Two-Face, Bane etc. In his team books, he stands up to herald level attacks and tanks them.

I will name another, since you hate me using Batman. Daredevil in his solo titles struggles with human level attacks - then in team books, faces the Hulk. Fights Ultron.

Do you agree?

So if SOME characters, through scaling, are shown to be way more powerful in teams thanks to writers - then it follows that SOME characters have to be shown to be weaker than in their solo books.

I am not sure, though, what this has to do with the topic in this thread. Apples to Oranges.

Originally posted by carver9
Dark, your tactic is one of the reason why I think Herc wins this. We had a debate a while back about the Avengers vs Hulk and you mentioned how powerful the Avengers was in the Avengers title which is the reason the fight wasn't that impressive. If we limit this fight by only using fts directly from DOS books, Herc wins this with ease. It's kind of like WWH vs whomever. We use fts directly from that story, nothing after or before. Why treat Doomsday differently here. Now if you agree with what I am saying here, I do not mind debating this topic. Even if you limit DD to Dos he still wins.
Superman is stronger and more durable than Hercules.
The only thing that hurt DD in dos was Superman letting loose (not holding back any longer). Each strike from that type of Superman >> each strike from Hercules. Each strike from Hercules would do LESS damage than each strike from Superman.

@dark...

That's not what you said. You mentioned the Avengers struggling to stop a city destroying asteroid while translating this to the characters being weak. Seems pretty simple to me. Let's not change things.

Now back to characters like WWH, fts only from that story being used. If we limit Doomsday showings with just DOS fts as stated in this title (WWH), Hercules kills him. Do you agree or do you not agree?

Originally posted by h1a8
Even if you limit DD to Dos he still wins.
Superman is stronger and more durable than Hercules.
The only thing that hurt DD in dos was Superman letting loose (not holding back any longer). Each strike from that type of Superman >> each strike from Hercules. Each strike from Hercules would do LESS damage than each strike from Superman.

I can prove all of this wrong. Do you want to debate using fts PRIMARILY from DOS, as stated in the title? Yes or no?

Originally posted by carver9
I can prove all of this wrong. Do you want to debate using fts PRIMARILY from DOS, as stated in the title? Yes or no? DD feats are against Superman. Superman > Hercules

Originally posted by h1a8
DD feats are against Superman. Superman > Hercules

Again, if we use fts directly from that book, DOS, Hercules stomps here. Do you not understand what I am saying, lol. The thread title say DOS Doomsday. DOS. Now if you want to debate based off the thread title, let me know.

Originally posted by carver9
Again, if we use fts directly from that book, DOS, Hercules stomps here. Do you not understand what I am saying, lol. The thread title say DOS Doomsday. DOS. Now if you want to debate based off the thread title, let me know.

What do you mean by feats? Lifting feats or feats against established characters?

Originally posted by h1a8
What do you mean by feats? Lifting feats or feats against established characters?

All of it from characters specifically in that book. What I'm saying is the characters in DOS was weak AF. Lol!!! This is why Dark is trying to avoid debating this topic.

Originally posted by carver9
@dark...

That's not what you said. You mentioned the Avengers struggling to stop a city destroying asteroid while translating this to the characters being weak. Seems pretty simple to me. Let's not change things.

Now back to characters like WWH, fts only from that story being used. If we limit Doomsday showings with just DOS fts as stated in this title (WWH), Hercules kills him. Do you agree or do you not agree?


Erm, this is what I said:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Aaron Jane was able to push supernovas back.

Avengers Jane was unable to even stop a massively slowed down asteroid.....

Aaron Jane's Mjolnir was able to find her and attempt smashing through vibranium/adamantium.

Avengers Jane got lost in rubble...

And:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Herc and Jane Thor are NOT elites in strength when they are written in the Avengers....

Which is.....true. Please do not lie and misrepresent me.

Now back to the topic. I do not agree, PLUS you are grossly misunderstanding what it is we say. This is the forum rule:



Your problem is that you misunderstand the ruling. I have underlined the important part for you - WWH is NOT the character description - THAT'S why he's limited to feats from that arc.

However, DOS Doomsday IS the character description. Simple. That's why he gets all his previous feats (IMHO).

Now, if you want to argue against the Hulk definition, be my guest, I didn't write it.

Also, no I am not avoiding debating the point - you are debating a point that doesn't exist except in your misunderstanding.

Superman was able to withstand a country level destroying blast in his title, DOS Superman got knocked out by a gas station. Guy Gardner was able to survive being close to a planet explosion, DOS Guy got knocked out by getting a car door slammed into his head. It's the same exact thing.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman was able to withstand a country level destroying blast, DOS Superman got knocked out by a gas station. Guy Gardner was able to survive being close to a planet explosion, DOS Guy got knocked out by getting a car door slammed into his head. It's the same exact thing.

Except DOS Superman and Doomsday shook the world with their punches as well, IN THE SAME BOOK.

When did Guy get KOd by a car door?

My point which you glossed over, was that 'WWH' is limited to feats from his story arc, because 'WWH' is NOT the character description - which you wrongly believe.

You misread the rules. The rules state:

That didn't happen IN THE SAME BOOK. You're using a statement AFTER DOS and it's exactly that, a hyperbolic statement. Show me them shaking Earth in DOS during their fight.

Originally posted by carver9
That didn't happen IN THE SAME BOOK. You're using a statement AFTER DOS and it's exactly that, a hyperbolic statement. Show me them shaking Earth in DOS during their fight.

Retcons are perfectly admissible. If tomorrow Marvel release a comic stating that this entire time, Wolverine is an actual wolverine mutated to look human, we have to accept it.

If a later comic states that DOS Doomsday shook the planet with his punches, then it is also admissible.

It's a statement with no actual evidence. It's hyperbolic. I know you want it to be true, lol, but it's not and there's no proof of it. What do you have outside of hyperbolic statements (unless you believe Cyclops optics is powerful enough to split the moon).

Prove it was hyperbolic, please.

Carver has convinced me Herc is phucked

Dunno about this one. It could really be interpreted either way.

Hyperbolic - Statement in bio/handbook form that came many years later.
Original scene only showed local collateral damage. No indication at all of shaking the planet.
The fight was also well known throughout the planet and was pretty much televised everywhere(i think). It could be a metaphor for all the negative feelings people were having as they saw their paragon getting really hurt and in mortal danger.

Non Hylerbolic - Supes and DD have shown remarkable feats of strength/power in other times so this is not so far fetched.
Iirc there's a scan of the collateral damage reaching Gotham. There's a chance that they were affecting much more beyond than local.
The statement can also be an extension of the story. It's painting a broader picture of what happened.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Dunno about this one. It could really be interpreted either way.

Hyperbolic - Statement in bio/handbook form that came many years later.
Original scene only showed local collateral damage. No indication at all of shaking the planet.
The fight was also well known throughout the planet and was pretty much televised everywhere(i think). It could be a metaphor for all the negative feelings people were having as they saw their paragon getting really hurt and in mortal danger.

Non Hylerbolic - Supes and DD have shown remarkable feats of strength/power in other times so this is not so far fetched.
Iirc there's a scan of the collateral damage reaching Gotham. There's a chance that they were affecting much more beyond than local.
The statement can also be an extension of the story. It's painting a broader picture of what happened. For me, The hyperbolic arugment seems like trying to arguing all of Hulk's planet-destroying statements are hyperboles since Hulk's pants never get destroyed. You need to do a really high level of mental gymnastics
DC was certainly slowly improving the scale of this fight throughout those years(Mainly because Superman slowly becoming more powerful. For example, In a flashback Superman pulling the earth)
In Superman: Day of Doom, stating that Superman and Doomsday were creating a roll of powerful shockwaves
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Superman-Day-of-Doom/Issue-2?id=108991#11
It stated Doomsday's punches so powerful that could be registered on seismographs all over the country
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Superman-Day-of-Doom/Issue-1?id=108990#21
Not to mention in Doomsday Annual an early version of Doomsday also got a lot of good feats

Originally posted by Bentley
Carver has convinced me Herc is phucked

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
For me, The hyperbolic arugment seems like trying to arguing all of Hulk's planet-destroying statements are hyperboles since Hulk's pants never get destroyed. You need to do a really high level of mental gymnastics
DC was certainly slowly improving the scale of this fight throughout those years(Mainly because Superman slowly becoming more powerful. For example, In a flashback Superman pulling the earth)
In Superman: Day of Doom, stating that Superman and Doomsday were creating a roll of powerful shockwaves
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Superman-Day-of-Doom/Issue-2?id=108991#11
It stated Doomsday's punches so powerful that could be registered on seismographs all over the country
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Superman-Day-of-Doom/Issue-1?id=108990#21
Not to mention in Doomsday Annual an early version of Doomsday also got a lot of good feats Maybe it's just my device but your links came with adware that I didn't trust.

@Dark,

Why do I need to prove if the statement is hyperbolic, lol? It remind me of this showing. Thor hammer swings shaking the stars.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a2f8c24afb312c5c56b9f8382a9f7b54

Do you accept that statement Darksaint?

Originally posted by lawest9
Maybe it's just my device but your links came with adware that I didn't trust. Just thought I should post the unabridged comic books so everyone can check it by themselves.
Anyway these are the scans I posted
https://ibb.co/MCQK1v8
https://ibb.co/ws216RJ

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Just thought I should post the unabridged comic books so everyone can check it by themselves.
Anyway these are the scans I posted
https://ibb.co/MCQK1v8
https://ibb.co/ws216RJ Thank you, the first scan was reminded me of the Hulk / Sentry fight.

Originally posted by carver9
@Dark,

Why do I need to prove if the statement is hyperbolic, lol? It remind me of this showing. Thor hammer swings shaking the stars.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a2f8c24afb312c5c56b9f8382a9f7b54

Do you accept that statement Darksaint?

Because you made the claim?

I am still unaware of what your point in all of this is.

Is it that Superman was only gas station level in the story, and that DD killing him wasn't all that impressive a feat?

It took an all-out/bloodlusted Superman(the likes of which we've only seen like 2-3 times in his entire history) to finally injure, and ultimately put down, DoS Doomsday.

Herc simply isn't on that level.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because you made the claim?

I am still unaware of what your point in all of this is.

Is it that Superman was only gas station level in the story, and that DD killing him wasn't all that impressive a feat? Leave it to C9 to lowball Supes at every opportunity.

Originally posted by Galan007
It took an all-out/bloodlusted Superman(the likes of which we've only seen like 2-3 times in his entire history) to finally injure, and ultimately put down, DoS Doomsday.

Herc simply isn't on that level. Originally posted by Galan007
It took an all-out/bloodlusted Superman(the likes of which we've only seen like 2-3 times in his entire history) to finally injure, and ultimately put down, DoS Doomsday.

Herc simply isn't on that level.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
For me, The hyperbolic arugment seems like trying to arguing all of Hulk's planet-destroying statements are hyperboles since Hulk's pants never get destroyed. You need to do a really high level of mental gymnastics
DC was certainly slowly improving the scale of this fight throughout those years(Mainly because Superman slowly becoming more powerful. For example, In a flashback Superman pulling the earth)
In Superman: Day of Doom, stating that Superman and Doomsday were creating a roll of powerful shockwaves
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Superman-Day-of-Doom/Issue-2?id=108991#11
It stated Doomsday's punches so powerful that could be registered on seismographs all over the country
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Superman-Day-of-Doom/Issue-1?id=108990#21
Not to mention in Doomsday Annual an early version of Doomsday also got a lot of good feats
Not sure how u got to explaining Hulk pants..

Like I said, one can lean hyperbolic mainly because original story had nothing that indicated planet shaking in regards to their "deathblows". I mean one would be literally lying if they had that sentiment when the story first came out. It wasnt until years and years later that the shaking planet to its core in bio form came out that the scale of damage might now be able to be viewed differently. It's like night and day.

As to Day of Doom series that came out a decade after the original story, I already addressed that when I brought up Gotham. Still when I first read it, it's simply not comparable to planet shaking.

In regards to DD and seismographs, he was well below earth's surface and can affect the planet much easier from that location. The most recent bio statement said "deathblows" shaking the planet core. I'm figuring the statement was talking about their final few blows at each other(*shrug*).That is much harder to achieve i think since they were fighting on earth's surface and much of the force or shockwaves were probably propagating through air.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not sure how u got to explaining Hulk pants..

Like I said, one can lean hyperbolic mainly because original story had nothing that indicated planet shaking in regards to their "deathblows". I mean one would be literally lying if they had that sentiment when the story came out. It wasnt until years and years later that the shaking planet to its core in bio form came out that the scale of damage might now be able to be viewed differently. It's like night and day.

As to Day of Doom series that came out a decade after the original story, I already addressed that when I brought up Gotham. Still when I first read it, it's simply not comparable to planet shaking.

In regards to DD and seismographs, he was well below earth's surface and can affect the planet much easier from that location. The most recent bio statement said "deathblows" shaking the planet core. I'm figuring the statement was talking about their final few blows at each other(*shrug*).Thats is much harder to achieve i think since they were fighting on earth's surface and much of the force or shockwaves were probably propagating through air.
My point is the argument that saying the bio just hyperbolic doesnt hold much since DC was certainly improving the scale of this fight by flashbacks throughout these years. Thus the first argument(I.E trying to argue what bio stated is hyperbolic) doesnt hold much since there are many other proofs to support the opposite
I mean you later get the statements Superman needs to break his mental barriers(I.E going all out) to put DOS Doomsday down.
You later get Superman and Doomsday were creating powerful shockwaves when they fought. And before that DD's punches were registered on seismographs all over the country etc
We also know comic books always have silly stuff(Like people dont get killed, Buildings dont get destroyed when they should be destroyed by logic)

Originally posted by lawest9
Leave it to C9 to lowball Supes at every opportunity.

How am I lowballing Superman? Are you not reading my posts? I specifically said "if we limit this primarily to DOS, Hercules CAN win this based off everything that was shown in DOS". Now if you want to debate this, we can.

Originally posted by carver9
How am I lowballing Superman? Are you not reading my posts? I specifically said "if we limit this primarily to DOS, Hercules CAN win this based off everything that was shown in DOS". Now if you want to debate this, we can. But your statement does lowball Supes, for you said that 'Herc kills him' not just " Herc can win this", SUPERMAN killed DD at the cost of his own life, so now if Herc can "kill" DD in your opinion does Herc die in the attempt as well?

Originally posted by lawest9
But your statement does lowball Supes, for you said that 'Herc kills him' not just " Herc can win this", SUPERMAN killed DD at the cost of his own life, so now if Herc can "kill" DD in your opinion does Herc die in the attempt as well?

Are we using showings primarily from DOS since this is titled DOS or are you changing your mind? If Doomsday have ALL of his showings, then he destroys Herc. If we are limiting him to only DOS fts, then Herc wins this.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
My point is the argument that saying the bio just hyperbolic doesnt hold much since DC was certainly improving the scale of this fight by flashbacks throughout these years. Thus the first argument(I.E trying to argue what bio stated is hyperbolic) doesnt hold much since there are many other proofs to support the opposite
I mean you later get the statements Superman needs to break his mental barriers(I.E going all out) to put DOS Doomsday down.
You later get Superman and Doomsday were creating powerful shockwaves when they fought. And before that DD's punches were registered on seismographs all over the country etc
We also know comic books always have silly stuff(Like people dont get killed, Buildings dont get destroyed when they should be destroyed by logic)

Lois was literally right beside Doomsday and Superman when they were fighting. I'm talking about, she was able to touch him and probably throw out a hug if she wanted to during the time Doomsday and Superman were fighting. It's hyperbole.

Originally posted by carver9
Are we using showings primarily from DOS since this is titled DOS or are you changing your mind? If Doomsday have ALL of his showings, then he destroys Herc. If we are limiting him to only DOS fts, then Herc wins this. Not changing my mind at all and I know that I created this thread limiting DD to the DOS version, but you didn't answer my question, which was if Hercules KILLS him like you said at least twice now..........does Herc die in return like Clark did?......if you say that Herc doesn't, then that would be lowballing Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
Lois was literally right beside Doomsday and Superman when they were fighting. I'm talking about, she was able to touch him and probably throw out a hug if she wanted to during the time Doomsday and Superman were fighting. It's hyperbole. Like when WBH blows the planet apart but they clothes are still intact?
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-634?id=33162#14
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-634?id=33162#15
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-634?id=33162#17
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-634?id=33162#18
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-634?id=33162#19
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-635?id=33165#6

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Like when WBH blows the planet apart but they clothes are still intact?
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-634?id=33162#14
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-634?id=33162#15
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-634?id=33162#17
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-634?id=33162#18
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-634?id=33162#19
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Incredible-Hulks-2010/Issue-635?id=33165#6

Cloths intact? Are you saying the artist should have them butt necked hanging? I'm lost here. It's pretty obvious why artist do not destroy characters clothing having them hanging down low and boobs out during major fights, lol. Do better.

Originally posted by carver9
Cloths intact? Are you saying the artist should've have then butt necked hanging? I'm lost here. It's pretty obvious why artist do not destroy characters clothing having them hanging down low and **** out during major fights, lol. And it basically is the same reason why writers dont let those main characters but also just normal humans die in the Superman and Doomsday case
1 You literally get a scene that depicted Superman and Doomsday's shockwaves were destroying their surroundings, Which should be able to kill lois and others by logic
https://ibb.co/MCQK1v8
2 Comic books always have stuff like that. For example, In Doomsday Clock when Captain Atom created a huge explosion but normal humans like Green Arrow/Batgirl/Nightwing/Question still survive this explosion, Which also should be able to kill them by logic
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Doomsday-Clock/Issue-9?id=151016#29
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Doomsday-Clock/Issue-9?id=151016#30
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Doomsday-Clock/Issue-9?id=151016#31
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Doomsday-Clock/Issue-9?id=151016#32

Huge difference here. In the TRUE scene we see people standing around right next to Superman and Doomsday fighting...

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11118/111187046/7924705-5360560004-Super.jpg

In your scan, not a single person is there until the end where Lois is holding Superman...

https://ibb.co/MCQK1v8

One of these scenes are wrong. I think I'm going to accept the original fight.

Originally posted by carver9
Cloths intact? Are you saying the artist should have them butt necked hanging? I'm lost here. It's pretty obvious why artist do not destroy characters clothing having them hanging down low and boobs out during major fights, lol. Do better.

So in short, PIS.

Thanks. You just saying 'its obvious' doesn't detract from the point made.

It's not PIS, cloths being ripped and people dying are 2 different things. People die in comics, characters booty, boobs and everything else showing isn't all that common. We are reading comics, not reading pornhub, lol. Try harder.

Originally posted by carver9
Huge difference here. In the TRUE scene we see people standing around right next to Superman and Doomsday fighting...

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11118/111187046/7924705-5360560004-Super.jpg

In your scan, not a single person is there until the end where Lois is holding Superman...

https://ibb.co/MCQK1v8

One of these scenes are wrong. I think I'm going to accept the original fight.
You didnt address my point though
Arguing the bio is hyperbolic by using lois and others just doesnt work. Because comics(or more precisely, basically all fictions) are full of stuff like this
People dont get killed when they should be killed by logic
Clothes dont get destroyed when they should be destroyed by logic
Surroundings/grounds dont get shattered when they should be shattered by logic etc
Such like this
the blast itself being powerful enough to destroy several billion entire dimensions but still doesnt do any damage to Owen's apartment
https://ibb.co/h7sL0JY

Originally posted by carver9
It's not PIS, cloths being ripped and people dying are 2 different things. People die in comics, characters booty, boobs and everything else showing isn't all that common. We are reading comics, not reading pornhub, lol. Try harder.

But they're the same thing.

It doesn't happen because the writer/artist didn't want to show it, not because it logically doesn't happen.

So you can't use either as 'proof' of something.

Edit: lol qwertyuiop ninja'ing me.

Originally posted by carver9
It's not PIS, cloths being ripped and people dying are 2 different things. People die in comics, characters booty, boobs and everything else showing isn't all that common. We are reading comics, not reading pornhub, lol. Try harder.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

2 Comic books always have stuff like that. For example, In Doomsday Clock when Captain Atom created a huge explosion but normal humans like Green Arrow/Batgirl/Nightwing/Question still survive this explosion, Which also should be able to kill them by logic
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Doomsday-Clock/Issue-9?id=151016#29
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Doomsday-Clock/Issue-9?id=151016#30
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Doomsday-Clock/Issue-9?id=151016#31
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Doomsday-Clock/Issue-9?id=151016#32

And Carv is the first one to claim that the lack of collateral damage doesn't disprove power but rather writers intent should be taken into account.

See how he flip flops.

Originally posted by h1a8
And Carv is the first one to claim that the lack of collateral damage doesn't disprove power but rather writers intent should be taken into account.

See how he flip flops.

Nope... what I'm saying is the scenes are completely different. One scene, we have people standing around Superman and Doomsday fight, spectating the entire fight. This scene is the true, actual, on panel fight. The second scan that Q posted is Superman and Doomsday fighting and no one being there. Not a single person. They are 2 different showings with one being the actual fight.

Originally posted by carver9
Nope... what I'm saying is the scenes are completely different. One scene, we have people standing around Superman and Doomsday fight, spectating the entire fight. This scene is the true, actual, on panel fight. The second scan that Q posted is Superman and Doomsday fighting and no one being there. Not a single person. They are 2 different showings with one being the actual fight.

So you are saying that Superman and DD didn't shake the Earth because of the lack of collateral damage (people standing around), regardless of writers intent?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
You didnt address my point though
Arguing the bio is hyperbolic by using lois and others just doesnt work. Because comics(or more precisely, basically all fictions) are full of stuff like this
People dont get killed when they should be killed by logic
Clothes dont get destroyed when they should be destroyed by logic
Surroundings/grounds dont get shattered when they should be shattered by logic etc
Such like this
the blast itself being powerful enough to destroy several billion entire dimensions but still doesnt do any damage to Owen's apartment
https://ibb.co/h7sL0JY You can forget about him addressing your point, he won't even answer the simple question that I put to him.

"Hey, Doomsday punches didn't destroy the ground, so they obviously brought no leverage, so he was solely punching with his upper body, but since he wasn't sent spinning into he air his strength must've been below the weight of his upper body, what a weakling!"

This is in all honesty, a fight that I wouldn't want to read about. Hercules would surely die here.

Originally posted by h1a8
So you are saying that Superman and DD didn't shake the Earth because of the lack of collateral damage (people standing around), regardless of writers intent?

No, in regards to Superman shaking the planet, that's hyperbole.

Originally posted by carver9
No, in regards to Superman shaking the planet, that's hyperbole. So the writer didn't mean that literally? The writer was exaggerating?

Doomsday wins.

Originally posted by h1a8
So the writer didn't mean that literally? The writer was exaggerating?

Did the writer mean Thor was shaking stars with hammer strikes?

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a2f8c24afb312c5c56b9f8382a9f7b54

I want you to think of the magnitude of these ft and how much it puts Thor above ANY Herald. We know you don't want that so I feel confident your answer won't be "yes".

Thor and Hercules strike with enough force to shatter worlds...

https://i.imgur.com/7793LHw.jpg

It took planet shaking power to destroy Doomsday whereas Hercules can produce world (S) shattering single strikes. Writer intent for the win.

Hercules has arm wrestled with enough strength to move planets...

https://i.imgur.com/rxOnVVd.jpg

Writer intent.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor and Hercules strike with enough force to shatter worlds...

https://i.imgur.com/7793LHw.jpg

It took planet shaking power to destroy Doomsday whereas Hercules can produce world (S) shattering single strikes. Writer intent for the win.

Hercules has arm wrestled with enough strength to move planets...

https://i.imgur.com/rxOnVVd.jpg

Writer intent.

This is true.

Originally posted by Stoic
This is true.

Lol... I can go even further with this. Writers intent, Thor hitting with enough force from a single strike that it is more powerful than the big bang. Universal Thor for the win.

https://ibb.co/P95Lwkx

Writers intent.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor and Hercules strike with enough force to shatter worlds...

https://i.imgur.com/7793LHw.jpg

It took planet shaking power to destroy Doomsday whereas Hercules can produce world (S) shattering single strikes. Writer intent for the win.

Hercules has arm wrestled with enough strength to move planets...

https://i.imgur.com/rxOnVVd.jpg

Writer intent.

1. Unquantifiable.Hyperbole
2. Arm wrestling? Not sure if canon since came after story. Took a mighty long time to do. A shared feat.
3. Those are very old showings. Current versions are vastly different.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I can go even further with this. Writers intent, Thor hitting with enough force from a single strike that it is more powerful than the big bang. Universal Thor for the win.

https://ibb.co/P95Lwkx

Writers intent.

Thor isn't in the thread.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor and Hercules strike with enough force to shatter worlds...

https://i.imgur.com/7793LHw.jpg

It took planet shaking power to destroy Doomsday whereas Hercules can produce world (S) shattering single strikes. Writer intent for the win.

Hercules has arm wrestled with enough strength to move planets...

https://i.imgur.com/rxOnVVd.jpg

Writer intent. Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I can go even further with this. Writers intent, Thor hitting with enough force from a single strike that it is more powerful than the big bang. Universal Thor for the win.

https://ibb.co/P95Lwkx

Writers intent.
And yet Doomsday kills Hercules and Thor together. Cry more.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Unquantifiable.Hyperbole
2. Arm wrestling? Not sure if canon since came after story. Took a mighty long time to do. A shared feat.
3. Those are very old showings. Current versions are vastly different.

Glad we agree statements are hyperbolic.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor isn't in the thread.

He doesn't need to be. Herc and Thor are physical equals. Said on panel.

Originally posted by carver9
He doesn't need to be. Herc and Thor are physical equals. Said on panel. Characters don't share feats, even if an old comic by a particular writer stated they are physical equals.

Thor used a magical weapon to achieve that. Striking two adamantium hammers wouldn't have done ANYTHING.

Originally posted by h1a8
Characters don't share feats, even if an old comic by a particular writer stated they are physical equals.

Thor used a magical weapon to achieve that. Striking two adamantium hammers wouldn't have done ANYTHING.

Show me where it said magic had something to do with the power output of that hit.

Originally posted by carver9
How am I lowballing Superman? Are you not reading my posts? I specifically said "if we limit this primarily to DOS, Hercules CAN win this based off everything that was shown in DOS". Now if you want to debate this, we can.

But DOS Doomsday can also do what his prior incarnations can do.

DOS Superman, too.

We are discussing DOS Doomsday here which means only showings from DOS can be used in this debate. If we are using fts outside of DOS, then the thread starter should've said Doomsday vs Hercules. He put the limitation on this thread, not me. Maybe mods need to put something in the rules that states DOS Doomsday get fts before and after DOS.

Originally posted by carver9
We are discussing DOS Doomsday here which means only showings from DOS can be used in this debate. If we are using fts outside of DOS, then the thread starter should've said Doomsday vs Hercules. He put the limitation on this thread, not me. Maybe mods need to put something in the rules that states DOS Doomsday get fts before and after DOS.

Nope, that's not how it works, sadly.

Even IF it was, the Superman he physically beat to death ISN'T limited to DOS feats only, nor is Guy Gardner etc etc.

DOS Doomsday beat Superman to death, which almost no other character since has done. Forum rules state nothing about 'Jurgens' Superman or anything like that, and we have Death Metal to thank for ALL feats being canon - Silver Age Superman, Golden Age, Pre and Post Crisis.

So Doomsday beat a Superman who was able to sneeze planets away, tow planets with a chain, throw people so hard they go back in time etc etc, physically to death - if this is REALLY how you want to play it, I am down to argue forum rules with you

Originally posted by carver9
Show me where it said magic had something to do with the power output of that hit. The hammers are magical. It does not have to say. The onus is on you though. You are assuming a special attribute (Thor used strength alone).

So Show me where Thor did that to a non magical item.

Originally posted by h1a8
The hammers are magical. It does not have to say. The onus is on you though. You are assuming a special attribute (Thor used strength alone).

So Show me where Thor did that to a non magical item.

So the onus is on me to prove that the narrator saying an attack resembles the concussive force of the big bang (more powerful than) is a magical attack? So no we have a magical big bang theory?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nope, that's not how it works, sadly.

Even IF it was, the Superman he physically beat to death ISN'T limited to DOS feats only, nor is Guy Gardner etc etc.

DOS Doomsday beat Superman to death, which almost no other character since has done. Forum rules state nothing about 'Jurgens' Superman or anything like that, and we have Death Metal to thank for ALL feats being canon - Silver Age Superman, Golden Age, Pre and Post Crisis.

So Doomsday beat a Superman who was able to sneeze planets away, tow planets with a chain, throw people so hard they go back in time etc etc, physically to death - if this is REALLY how you want to play it, I am down to argue forum rules with you

Lmao imagine if we did this the Carver way.

What feats does Zom Strange have, outside of WWH? What feats does Ghost Rider have outside of the incarnation we saw in WWH? Juggernaut? Colossus?

What feats does BiBeast, Wendigo, ArmCheddon et al have outside of the Heart of the Monster storyline? What feats does Umar have? Fin Fang Foom? Imagine if we kept it where every character is limited to their specific 3-4 issue storylines lol.

Lol... make a Zom Strange thread and let's see how it turns out. I feel confident he won't get any love because we are specifically saying WWH Zom Strange. Kinda like how people do Sentry. I'm sure you've seen those WWH Sentry threads around here. Make a WWH Bi Beast and WWH Wendigo thread and I feel confident people won't use fts outside of the WWH comic. Now if you made a Wendigo vs Whomever thread, he's open to fts. This is why I ask in WWH threads "can I use fts from Greenscar that took place AFTER the Sentry fight". Think about it, DARK, this has been going on for a while now. The only reason you're noticing it is because it's DC I'm talking about.

@Squall,

The thread title say DOS in it. It doesn't matter what he did before or after.

Here's a thread if you need proof. People are specifically talking about Sentry during WWH. They are not using before or after fts from the character. I'm sure you know this but again, youre only defending it because it's Superman related. I understand...


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=632232&highlight=%22WWH+Sentry+vs


Originally posted by tkitna
Agreed. WWH Sentry was a low showing for the character.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... make a Zom Strange thread and let's see how it turns out. I feel confident he won't get any love because we are specifically saying WWH Zom Strange. Kinda like how people do Sentry. I'm sure you've seen those WWH Sentry threads around here. Make a WWH Bi Beast and WWH Wendigo thread and I feel confident people won't use fts outside of the WWH comic. Now if you made a Wendigo vs Whomever thread, he's open to fts. This is why I ask in WWH threads "can I use fts from Greenscar that took place AFTER the Sentry fight". Think about it, DARK, this has been going on for a while now. The only reason you're noticing it is because it's DC I'm talking about.

Ah, gotcha.

So Superman isn't limited to DOS feats, right? ALL Superman feats are available to him yes? Just like WBH melting an amped Wendigo - we don't say 'oh, what did Wendigo do in HotM, we look at ALL Of Wendigo's feats.

DOS Doomsday is limited to the DOS storyline (using your logic). OK.

What did DOS Doomsday do?

Physically, using his fists, beat Superman to a bloody pulp and death.

So? What has Superman done?

Ahhhh. We are now no longer limited to just the DOS storyline . Just like we don't limit Dr Strange to 'just' the WWH storyline - if WWH beat him, we look at ALL of Strange's feats across his history.

So I can now look at ALL Of Superman's history, and say well, this Sooperdooper guy, got physically beaten to death. And was unable to even hurt DOS Doomsday prior to that. Then we have Death Metal, which tells us ALL of history is canon - which means the Superman who was beaten to death, also towed planets on a chain.

See where we are going with this?

Originally posted by carver9
Here's a thread if you need proof. People are specifically talking about Sentry during WWH. They are not using before or after fts from the character. I'm sure you know this but again, youre only defending it because it's Superman related. I understand...


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=632232&highlight=%22WWH+Sentry+vs

Excellent example.

SENTRY is being limited to his WWH feats. But look at the scaling going on:

Originally posted by carver9
We seen what WWH punches does to top tiers .

WWH's opponents are given their feats across their entire history, no? Otherwise, how can you say they are top tiers?

You can use Superman fts but in THAT story, Superman was weak AF. This is why I brought up your Avengers statement where in their own books (Jane Thor) they are more powerful than they are in other books which made the ft questionable for Hulk. Remember? Under this writer, that wrote DOS, the Justice League AND Superman was weak AF. Lol... I can show you if you want. Doomsday took Booster Gold out with a car door. Gas station explosion. Also, there was a statement said about Doomsday speed in DOS and it mentions him being tagged at half the speed of sound and no, Doomsday doesn't hold back his power. There's more but the characters during this specific story, Maxima as well, wasn't your normal move planets, tank continental attacks, close fissures, type of characters. You know this which is the reason you're avoiding this type of debate.

Originally posted by carver9
@Squall,

The thread title say DOS in it. It doesn't matter what he did before or after.

Jesus man! You do know prior to DOS, DD was weaker right?

It goes like this man, from weakest to strongest
Pre DOS, DOS, HP, OWAW

Welp, I guess it's time for me to start posting scans which means I have to go back and read death of Superman yet again.

@Squall,

Do you not understand what is being debated here?

Originally posted by carver9
You can use Superman fts but in THAT story, Superman was weak AF. This is why I brought up your Avengers statement where in their own books (Jane Thor) they are more powerful than they are in other books which made the ft questionable for Hulk. Remember? Under this writer, that wrote DOS, the Justice League AND Superman was weak AF. Lol... I can show you if you want. Doomsday took Booster Gold out with a car door. Gas station explosion. Also, there was a statement said about Doomsday speed in DOS and it mentions him being tagged at half the speed of sound and no, Doomsday doesn't hold back his power. There's more but the characters during this specific story, Maxima as well, wasn't your normal move planets, tank continental attacks, close fissures, type of characters. You know this which is the reason you're avoiding this type of debate.

I thought you said it was Guy - Guy, who withstood planetary explosions

Problem for you is, since then, Death Metal happened. Which means Silver Age Pre Crisis Superman's feats are also valid - and after all, do we not ignore PIS?

Not to mention, it wasn't a team book - Doomsday killed Superman in HIS OWN BOOK lmao.

Do people here truly...honest to God, with all bias aside...believe that Herc is on par with an all-out/bloodlusted DoS Superman?

Or are we past that?

Originally posted by carver9
Welp, I guess it's time for me to start posting scans which means I have to go back and read death of Superman yet again.

It's Superman's own book, not a team book. Which means....PIS for the gas station.

Hey, they happen. I am 100% in agreement with you that PIS occurs

Originally posted by Galan007
Do people here truly...honest to God, with all bias aside...believe that Herc is on par with an all-out/bloodlusted DoS Superman?

Carv is trying his best to trap me, because he's salty about something I pointed out a few months/years ago.

My point back then was that in team books, characters are sometimes written down, whilst others are written up, compared to their solo titles. Batman in JL is way more uber than in Detective Comics, for example.

I used this with the Avengers. Jane Thor in her solo was written way more powerful than in Avengers, hence, Immortal Hulk shrugging her off wasn't strictly comparable to her batting entire galaxies away or whatever.

So in THIS thread, Carv is trying to say that the Superman who was killed, the bloodlusted DoS Superman, was written weak - so DOS Doomsday isn't all that.

Even though, you know, DOS took place in Superman's own book, not a team book, and moreover, Death Metal means Doomsday killed a Supes who had towed planets or w/ever.

Lol... someone must've hit the report button for a mod to show up. Stop being so sensitive. The debate is reasonable. If you don't like the topic being discussed here, avoid it. You're a dangerous person to debate with, Dark. You intentionally egg debates to hit the report button. Imo, that defines trolling. You're ingored again. Hercules wins this. Outside of any other Doomsday, he dies.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... someone must've hit the report button for a mod to show up. Stop being so sensitive. The debate is reasonable. If you don't like the topic being discussed here, avoid it. You're a dangerous person to debate with, Dark. You intentionally egg debates to hit the report button. Imo, that defines trolling. You're ingored again. Hercules wins this. Outside of any other Doomsday, he dies.

I didn't report you. I ALWAYS tell people when I have - please don't throw wild accusations around.

Galan can even show proof, if proof be needed. As always, you misunderstand me, Carv. Stop projecting. If you can't address my point, fine, I don't mind being on ignore and you running away.

But don't accuse me of reporting you, and accuse me of trolling, when I didn't. Galan is a poster who can post wherever and whenever he feels like it, it doesn't mean I summoned him magically, lol.

I personally thought it was a reasonable debate.....had it been Phildo or anyone else, you would have had insults slung your way by now.

No one reported this thread lol. Don't get insecure on me, carv.

Originally posted by carver9
@Squall,

Do you not understand what is being debated here?

Do you?

Pre DOS is still a thing. Pre DOS DD is still DD, but far weaker. They are not two different beings.

Now if I were using HP DD feats as a way to prop DOS DD, then there would be a problem. Or if we were debating Pre DOS, and I used DOS feats to help DD, that would again be a problem.

Lmao.

Yeah I guess it's easier for Carv to play the victim than to actually address anything.

Doomsday evolves. In order to fight him, you'd need to be able to grow more powerful with time as he does, kill him with more power than he has experienced, or kill him with a power type that he has not experienced. Hercules would be screwed after the first 5-10 minutes, and that's being extremely generous if not charitable on my part.

I think Herc would put up a better fight than the JL Rooster did (before Supes showed up) simply because he is top tier in strength and durability but more importantly he is a superior H2H fighter with more than a thousand years of experience. He wouldn't win a single round but he would last for a while.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I think Herc would put up a better fight than the JL Rooster did (before Supes showed up) simply because he is top tier in strength and durability but more importantly he is a superior H2H fighter with more than a thousand years of experience. He wouldn't win a single round but he would last for a while. That sounds very accurate.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I think Herc would put up a better fight than the JL Rooster did (before Supes showed up) simply because he is top tier in strength and durability but more importantly he is a superior H2H fighter with more than a thousand years of experience. He wouldn't win a single round but he would last for a while.

He'd need his mace as well. Can't see how he'd bypass those claws without it.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
He'd need his mace as well. Can't see how he'd bypass those claws without it.

That's true. His Nemean Lion Skin would help too. With all equipment he could get (Shield of Medusa, Sword of Peleus for example) I could see him even winning some rounds.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman was able to withstand a country level destroying blast in his title, DOS Superman got knocked out by a gas station. Guy Gardner was able to survive being close to a planet explosion, DOS Guy got knocked out by getting a car door slammed into his head. It's the same exact thing.

So prove this is actually what happened instead of accumulated damage on the gas station. Or that it was just Doomsday hitting Guy that hard, not anybody can slam the car door. If you try and argue the door didn't shatter into atoms, pretty sure a car door is more durable than Hulk's pants(if you truly want to go that route).

It looks to me like the only leg you have to stand on is, at best, misinterpreting what DS said. At worst you're flat out lying about it.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me where it said magic had something to do with the power output of that hit.

The very page you quote says a wave of mystical energy before it compares it to the Big Bang.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe

That's true. His Nemean Lion Skin would help too. With all equipment he could get (Shield of Medusa, Sword of Peleus for example) I could see him even winning some rounds. The actual HEAD of Medusa would help more than anything if he could get his hands on that.

Originally posted by lawest9
The actual HEAD of Medusa would help more than anything if he could get his hands on that.

The shield has the head.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The shield has the head..... Ok........then Herc may have a shot here.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So prove this is actually what happened instead of accumulated damage on the gas station. Or that it was just Doomsday hitting Guy that hard, not anybody can slam the car door. If you try and argue the door didn't shatter into atoms, pretty sure a car door is more durable than Hulk's pants(if you truly want to go that route).

It looks to me like the only leg you have to stand on is, at best, misinterpreting what DS said. At worst you're flat out lying about it.

My bad, it isn't Guy, it was Boostet Gold, who had no shields when Doomsday was pounding on him, ya know, human durability Booster. Also, Doomsday doesn't hold back...

https://m.imgur.com/Ix8XCMO

No matter how you twist this, the portrayal of ALL of the characters in this book was ridiculous. If we are discussing DOS Doomsday, fts directly from this character, Hercules stomps.

Ahhhh good good.

So you finally acknowledge that GoW WW, whilst specifically out to kill Batman, was unable to KO him even without his armour and whilst he was injured?

Let me know.....HOLLA!

Carver: I knew Dark would pop up/mention Batman. Insert jibe about feelings or stalking or emotions etc. Maybe even a emoji.

Whilst ignoring the point. Or running away from it.

Originally posted by carver9


As predicted

You're pulling scenes from different things and writers to go against what I am saying. I'm telling you, the entire book is like this. The portrayal of these characters were weak and this is the Doomsday we are debating here.

Also, ABHI said he had shields on here which is not the case. Doomsday grabbed him by the jacket...

https://ibb.co/stbmMm3

I'm convinced now that Carver didn't actually read DOS. I'm not surprised, mind you.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm convinced now that Carver didn't actually read DOS. I'm not surprised, mind you.

Lol... I did read it though. My argument is primarily on the power level of the characters. The discussion is primarily about DOS versions of the characters.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I did read it though. My argument is primarily on the power level of the characters. The discussion is primarily about DOS versions of the characters.

I'd like to believe you, but alas...

Originally posted by carver9
Also, ABHI said he had shields on here which is not the case. Doomsday grabbed him by the jacket...

https://ibb.co/stbmMm3
Auto shields are invisible idiot. Guy had the force field up just one page earlier.


http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/th_dos_speed1.jpg http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/th_dos_speed2.jpg

Guess you didn't read my post. Again, Guy didn't have his shields up because DOOMSDAY GRABBED HIS JACKET.

Originally posted by carver9
Guess you didn't read my post. Again, Guy didn't have his shields up because DOOMSDAY GRABBED HIS JACKET.
Auto fields suddenly vanished huh?

Why are you struggling to comprehend this? If Doomsday grabbed his jacket (and he did) there are no shields. This is as basic as I can tell you. Maybe if I gave an example, it would help.

If you got a new haircut and didn't want to mess it up and put a glass bowl on top of your skull so that people won't touch it, it would be next to impossible for Philo to rub his hands through your hair. This is the best description that I think you would understand this simple concept.

Or Doomsday broke the auto shields and grabbed the jacket. It's not hard to understand, if you aren't a gibbering toddler.

Lol @ him breaking the shield. Now that's some funny sh**. Anyways, it doesn't even matter if the shield was broken (lol), the point is, Guy had no shields during that confrontation.

Originally posted by carver9
You're pulling scenes from different things and writers to go against what I am saying. I'm telling you, the entire book is like this. The portrayal of these characters were weak and this is the Doomsday we are debating here.

Am I?

Same writer said WW was out to kill. It was a few pages after. Same writer who had WW body slamming an injured Bruce, with no armour, in a aucker punch.

Same writer, same storyline. Literally a few pages apart.

Originally posted by carver9
My bad, it isn't Guy, it was Boostet Gold, who had no shields when Doomsday was pounding on him, ya know, human durability Booster. Also, Doomsday doesn't hold back...

https://m.imgur.com/Ix8XCMO

No matter how you twist this, the portrayal of ALL of the characters in this book was ridiculous. If we are discussing DOS Doomsday, fts directly from this character, Hercules stomps.

So explain to me how Hulk still has pants in his fights or damage he takes. Don't make that bullshit excuse of they can't show nudity, artists can and do draw characters naked but use shadows, angles, etc to cover things up. Explain why Hulk's pants still exist and you're ok with this but then argue Booster.

Also, explain how Hulk even exists. Bruce was a normal human, he should be killed by plenty of radiation.

And if DOS Doomsday was so weak, why did he do something only 3 Pocketverse Kryptonians(who were effectively Pre-CRISIS) working together accomplished?

Originally posted by carver9
You're pulling scenes from different things and writers to go against what I am saying. I'm telling you, the entire book is like this. The portrayal of these characters were weak and this is the Doomsday we are debating here.

Same writer (Scott Snyder) and same storyline (Batman: Endgame). Note the art is the same as well:

https://comicnewbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/batmans-justice-buster-suit-vs-wonder-woman-1.jpg

A bit slower, but she's out to kill and not pulling her punches.

Same WW who sucker punches an injured unarmoured Bruce, and doesn't even KO him.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11123/111234294/4602976-8440152492-41490.jpg

This is WW we are talking about here. A warrior born. Highly trained. Out to kill.

My point being, surely this is PIS? No one would seriously argue Batman is WW level (or slightly below her), yet you're arguing that Doomsday Vs Booster is somehow valid.

Arguing that writers and artists won't depict a naked Hulk is silly - we've seen naked Hulk before. Moreover, I can just turn around and argue that the writers only wanted Superman to die, not Booster, that's how he survived.

In short, PIS. Same with the gas station. But the point remains: Doomsday physically beat one of the top heralds in DC to death, no weakness exploit, no Kryptonite etc - and Superman gets access to all of his feats.

Just like we don't argue that the Wendigo or BiBeast in WBH are 'weaker'. Or that Zom Strange in WWH was 'weaker'. They all get their feats throughout history. And Hulk smashed them.

Here, Superman gets all of his feats throughout history. And Doomsday smashed him.

Originally posted by carver9
Why are you struggling to comprehend this? If Doomsday grabbed his jacket (and he did) there are no shields. This is as basic as I can tell you. Maybe if I gave an example, it would help.

If you got a new haircut and didn't want to mess it up and put a glass bowl on top of your skull so that people won't touch it, it would be next to impossible for Philo to rub his hands through your hair. This is the best description that I think you would understand this simple concept. this is just sad. They should hires you to crack jokes at funerals. That will get everyone crying real quick.

Originally posted by carver9
Guess you didn't read my post. Again, Guy didn't have his shields up because DOOMSDAY GRABBED HIS JACKET.

Your mistake is assuming the shields are stiff and inflexible, like a glass bowl.

When in fact, they are malleable, like a balloon. Otherwise, how can he move? Imagine your skin - imagine it was solid. Look at your elbows, your fingers, your wrist.

Regardless of this, Batman vs WW is still applicable. Your arguments are like me taking this page:

https://i.postimg.cc/jdcg33xn/RCO020-1469401173.jpg

Note the circled in red parts? That's how close WBH/Betty were. And when they first arrived back on Earth, when they were fighting, they didn't melt the equipment or Monica or Strange or anyone/anything. Of course in the page I post, Hulk was told that he was no longer in the DD - but before this, when he was fighting, he thought he was in the DD (and hence, wasn't holding back).

So am I to argue that the versions of Wendigo/BiBeast/ArmCheddon et al are weaksauce? Umar in that storyline was written weakly? That truck in my scan isn't even being melted.

Betty wasn't told she wasn't in the DD any more - look at her fighting A-Bomb (who is also amped, btw). She's not holding back.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Am I?

Same writer said WW was out to kill. It was a few pages after. Same writer who had WW body slamming an injured Bruce, with no armour, in a aucker punch.

Same writer, same storyline. Literally a few pages apart.

https://ibb.co/HqJ8Bfw

Lol... during this discussion, it was said that Batman is the EXCEPTION when discussing things like this. Keep trying though.

I'm not making WW look bad though. I'm saying it was PIS Bats wasn't turned into a pink smear.

But notice how I used WBH? You glossed over that conveniently.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So explain to me how Hulk still has pants in his fights or damage he takes. Don't make that bullshit excuse of they can't show nudity, artists can and do draw characters naked but use shadows, angles, etc to cover things up. Explain why Hulk's pants still exist and you're ok with this but then argue Booster.

Also, explain how Hulk even exists. Bruce was a normal human, he should be killed by plenty of radiation.

And if DOS Doomsday was so weak, why did he do something only 3 Pocketverse Kryptonians(who were effectively Pre-CRISIS) working together accomplished?

Hulk, Superman, Wonder Woman, Magneto, Jubilee, Bishop, Batman pants doesn't get destroyed because we are not watching porn. If you want to see a comic full of necked characters, then you should probably invest time in scrolling through pornhub. Now if we have consistent scenes like THIS (below) where he is pounding on a human level character and OBVIOUSLY isn't holding back, and still fails to kill him, speaks volumes to me. Imagine Hulk going all out on Daredevil failing to even cause major physical damage, you all would downplay him. Let's not lie here. You're only doing this because it's Doomsday (who's involved with Superman). You're bias...


https://ibb.co/n8PzTYx

Naked Hulk.

Originally posted by abhilegend
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/83871/2487686-gamora18.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm not making WW look bad though. I'm saying it was PIS Bats wasn't turned into a pink smear.

But notice how I used WBH? You glossed over that conveniently.

You using Batman period, like Pr said is basically a dumbass move.

They were not creating shockwaves from the fight on earth. This much is pretty obvious. Even after destroying the planet the first time, they didn't replicate that showing afterwards. Them melting high tier characters the first time was sufficient. I have no way of explaining why they didn't destroy everything after the first time doing it but a scene like that doesn't need an explanation.

I want you to be honest, if WBH, after destroying Umar realm the first time, put all of his attention of human durability Doc Strange and jumped on him and started pounding him with everything he had and it did absolutely nothing, remember, this is AFTER destroying Umar realm and melting everyone... would you have used that showing against WBH or would you have forgotten about it? Remember, WBH stopped fighting Betty and went all out punching Strange in the face with everything he had and it not doing anything.

What feats did WENDIGO and Umar display in THAT storyline?

So you avoided my question and answered it with a question. If Hulk mounted Doc Strange and punched on him with everything he had and Strange survived with a couple of scratches, would you have forgotten about this or would you have used it against WBH? Even after melting everyone and everything, would you have ignored him causing minor injuries to human level Strange? We know for a FACT you wouldn't but I'm curious on what your answer would be here.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao imagine if we did this the Carver way.

What feats does Zom Strange have, outside of WWH? What feats does Ghost Rider have outside of the incarnation we saw in WWH? Juggernaut? Colossus?

What feats does BiBeast, Wendigo, ArmCheddon et al have outside of the Heart of the Monster storyline? What feats does Umar have? Fin Fang Foom? Imagine if we kept it where every character is limited to their specific 3-4 issue storylines lol.

My question was from days ago, lol. Stop avoiding it

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk mounted Doc Strange

Well, there goes lunch.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk, Superman, Wonder Woman, Magneto, Jubilee, Bishop, Batman pants doesn't get destroyed because we are not watching porn. If you want to see a comic full of necked characters, then you should probably invest time in scrolling through pornhub. Now if we have consistent scenes like THIS (below) where he is pounding on a human level character and OBVIOUSLY isn't holding back, and still fails to kill him, speaks volumes to me. Imagine Hulk going all out on Daredevil failing to even cause major physical damage, you all would downplay him. Let's not lie here. You're only doing this because it's Doomsday (who's involved with Superman). You're bias...


https://ibb.co/n8PzTYx

I literally said not to use that excuse, because artists can find ways to not actually show the naughty bits. Are you autistic? Here is an example of a movie of them avoiding showing nudity while the characters are naked.

c72XV85zcL4


So how is it Hulk still has pants? Answer. My. ****ing. Question.

And it's either "your bias" or "you're biased." Fail.

@dark...

You asking me that question shows that you didn't read my posts. The characters Doomsday fought, of course they are strong but during DOS, they're power level sucked. If Wendigo and Bi Beast (these are examples) during HOTM had to combine strength to lift a car then right after that, someone throw a hand grenade at them, killing both, the showing make their power level suspect.

Another example, if a Mindless One walked up to both Betty and Hulk and one punch koed both and used a kitchen knife to lop limbs off so they couldn't fight anymore, I wouldn't ignore this and say "well, even though they got taken out by a kitchen knife, in issue 92, not written by Pak, Hulk ate a Nuke, so we need to ignore him being sliced up by a kitchen knife". Then, if it kept happening throughout the story, Hulk getting koed by a child hitting him with a baseball bat, Hulk getting koed from falling off a one story roof, Hulk getting hit in the back of the head by a rock ending with him being knocked out. All of this happening in the same story under the same writer, I wouldn't say, "we need to ignore this from Pak and focus on what Stan Lee wrote about Hulk. Yes, he got taken out by a brick under Pak but Stan Lee had him withstand a planet explosion".

I dont know any other way of explaining this. So yes, if Wendigo and Bi Beast had ridiculous showings in HOTM, then I would use that against them but since they didn't have outright terrible showings, I can only go by what I know of them in other books.

You do know that Superman in DOS not only got knocked out by a gas station explosion, he got knocked out by some pillars falling on him AND he got knocked out and could hardly stand from a building exploding on both him and Doomsday. This is not your high end or even mid level Superman we are discussing here. He was WEAK in DOS.

@Delta...

Well, since you didn't accept common sense, the only thing I can tell you is, Hulk pants survived because they are nigh indestructible. There is enough evidence of them being indestructible. They survived the Phoenix Force blast, nukes, planetary level attacks. Building explosions. High tier beings hitting them. Hulk pants are just as powerful as his skin.

Originally posted by carver9
@dark...

You asking me that question shows that you didn't read my posts. The characters Doomsday fought, of course they are strong but during DOS, they're power level sucked. If Wendigo and Bi Beast (these are examples) during HOTM had to combine strength to lift a car then right after that, someone throw a hand grenade at them, killing both, the showing make their power level suspect.

Another example, if a Mindless One walked up to both Betty and Hulk and one punch koed both and used a kitchen knife to lop limbs off so they couldn't fight anymore, I wouldn't ignore this and say "well, even though they got taken out by a kitchen knife, in issue 92, not written by Pak, Hulk ate a Nuke, so we need to ignore him being sliced up by a kitchen knife". Then, if it kept happening throughout the story, Hulk getting koed by a child hitting him with a baseball bat, Hulk getting koed from falling off a one story roof, Hulk getting hit in the back of the head by a rock ending with him being knocked out. All of this happening in the same story under the same writer, I wouldn't say, "we need to ignore this from Pak and focus on what Stan Lee wrote about Hulk. Yes, he got taken out by a brick under Pak but Stan Lee had him withstand a planet explosion".

I dont know any other way of explaining this. So yes, if Wendigo and Bi Beast had ridiculous showings in HOTM, then I would use that against them but since they didn't have outright terrible showings, I can only go by what I know of them in other books.

You do know that Superman in DOS not only got knocked out by a gas station explosion, he got knocked out by some pillars falling on him AND he got knocked out and could hardly stand from a building exploding on both him and Doomsday. This is not your high end or even mid level Superman we are discussing here. He was WEAK in DOS.

But why are you limiting Superman's showings to the storyline only?

Lol... because in THAT story, Superman along with every other character were not that great. It's the same reason you thought Hulk showing sucked when he fought the Avengers. They failed to stop a city destroying meteor. I literally showed you numerous of reasons on why Doomsday along with the other characters were not impressive. I'm not going to say "Superman withstood a planet explosion in a Darkseid event, so Doomsday beating him is beastly". Not when, in the same issues where Doomsday and Superman fought, Superman got knocked out by pillars falling on him, gas station explosion, building explosion... Doomsday kicked those same pillars on top of Superman knocking him out again. There's more, this is just a sample of what I remember. It's like I'm consistently repeating myself. Yes, OUTSIDE of DOS, Superman have great showings but under this writer, during DOS, the power level of these characters was meta at best which drops DOS Doomsday stock.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Well, there goes lunch.

Originally posted by carver9
So you avoided my question and answered it with a question. If Hulk mounted Doc Strange and punched on him with everything he had and Strange survived with a couple of scratches, would you have forgotten about this or would you have used it against WBH? Even after melting everyone and everything, would you have ignored him causing minor injuries to human level Strange? We know for a FACT you wouldn't but I'm curious on what your answer would be here.

It goes back to this statement that you still didn't answer. If Hulk pounded on Strange with everything he had, would you use it against him?

I'd have ignored it.

Same way I ignored for example, the truck not meltingin my WBH scan. Or Monica Rappacini standing a few feet away from everyone as they're fighting each other, giving off gamma rads.

Or how I ignore Hulk's pants not melting. I understand how comics work, lol, how stories are written. You try and come up with head canon ('oh ,his pants are Skyfather level! Oh, artists can't draw nudity!') when in fact, I know it's just writer intent. I only bring the pants up when people start arguing collateral damage or whatever.

Same way I actually ignore Batman's showings unless his opponent is bringing in THEIR high end showings, or I'm trying to prove a point.

Originally posted by carver9
It goes back to this statement that you still didn't answer. If Hulk pounded on Strange with everything he had, would you use it against him? You are not one to complain about someone not answering a question as you have never answered my question to you.

Originally posted by carver9
@Delta...

Well, since you didn't accept common sense, the only thing I can tell you is, Hulk pants survived because they are nigh indestructible. There is enough evidence of them being indestructible. They survived the Phoenix Force blast, nukes, planetary level attacks. Building explosions. High tier beings hitting them. Hulk pants are just as powerful as his skin.

One: you're a ****ing idiot. No, you're not arguing common sense, you're arguing stupidity. Common sense would be the artists can find ways to not show the bits.

Two: if you're arguing Hulk's pants are indestructible, explain why they're torn at the bottom. Do they magically get indestructible when he turns into Hulk?

Three: You also have ignored my question of how Bruce survived instead of was killed.