Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

No bfr. Who wins?

Doomsday has a new skin to wear.

This is not even a fight actually.

Originally posted by SquallX
Doomsday has a new skin to wear.

This is not even a fight actually.

Did you read Invincible?

Originally posted by Stoic
Did you read Invincible?

Did you read DOS or pre DOS Doomsday?

If you think Thragg or anyone in the Invisible verse is a match, let alone being able to beat DD in a fight, you might need to read DOS again.

Something that people miss in DOS - Doomsday was fast. Very fast.

Maxima comments on it:
https://i.postimg.cc/QtTkL4V5/RCO088-1462958057.jpg

Superman comments on it:
https://i.postimg.cc/N0V7zqGB/RCO063-1462958057.jpg

And again:
https://i.postimg.cc/2yNdCQBt/RCO138-1462958057.jpg

Booster of course, compares him to Flash:
https://i.postimg.cc/2Skwq7XR/RCO064-1462958057.jpg

Guy coudln't even react to him:
https://i.postimg.cc/YCdxQLJ4/RCO040-1462958057.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/HLj9zsg6/RCO039-1462958057.jpg

And this scan. This is probably the one that people need to keep in mind - whilst WE, the readers, can clearly see Superman, see the 'S', every detail of his belt, his boots etc - to anyone else in the comic, they were blurs (and this is relatively early on in the story):
https://i.postimg.cc/vT7rT4rZ/RCO100-1462958057.jpg

IOW, if the comic was an anime, the entire fight would just be Doomsday being a blur. WE see static panels, with static characters, but in the 'comic world', it was all taking place at really high speeds.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Something that people miss in DOS - Doomsday was fast. Very fast.

Maxima comments on it:
https://i.postimg.cc/QtTkL4V5/RCO088-1462958057.jpg

Superman comments on it:
https://i.postimg.cc/N0V7zqGB/RCO063-1462958057.jpg

And again:
https://i.postimg.cc/2yNdCQBt/RCO138-1462958057.jpg

Booster of course, compares him to Flash:
https://i.postimg.cc/2Skwq7XR/RCO064-1462958057.jpg

Guy coudln't even react to him:
https://i.postimg.cc/YCdxQLJ4/RCO040-1462958057.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/HLj9zsg6/RCO039-1462958057.jpg

And this scan. This is probably the one that people need to keep in mind - whilst WE, the readers, can clearly see Superman, see the 'S', every detail of his belt, his boots etc - to anyone else in the comic, they were blurs (and this is relatively early on in the story):
https://i.postimg.cc/vT7rT4rZ/RCO100-1462958057.jpg

IOW, if the comic was an anime, the entire fight would just be Doomsday being a blur. WE see static panels, with static characters, but in the 'comic world', it was all taking place at really high speeds.


To add to that. DD after being resurrected, with one hand, in the space ship buried underground was punching nonstop, and those punches were being registered as earthquakes.

DD and Superman punches also shook the earth as well.

Then we have pre DOS that took on the Guardians and survived.

Also survived tear in space.

Battled The Radiant for days, and it took a blast that Razed 1/3 of the planet to finally stopped him.

Trouble with almost all of that is its not quantifiable. Superman gets caught flat footed all the time, and no other character is really capable of operating on Supermans speed level, let alone Flash.

So pretty much hyperbolic statements and non feats.

Originally posted by cdtm
Trouble with almost all of that is its not quantifiable. Superman gets caught flat footed all the time, and no other character is really capable of operating on Supermans speed level, let alone Flash.

So pretty much hyperbolic statements and non feats.

A fair comment, but I showed not just Superman being caught flat-footed. Guy was as well, as was Maxima, and Booster, a historian comic nerd who knows every hero inside out, compared the two.

Booster Gold losing is as much PIS as Aquaman winning.

Thragg puts up a fight but loses imo. Vitrumites seem less durable than Kryptonians.

Originally posted by cdtm
Trouble with almost all of that is its not quantifiable. Superman gets caught flat footed all the time, and no other character is really capable of operating on Supermans speed level, let alone Flash.

So pretty much hyperbolic statements and non feats. Some might be.

But the comments from Maxima and Superman(in particular) hold a lot of merit, imo. Superman was actively being ragdolled by Doomsday, and outright stated that he had to keep moving faster in order to match DD's speed.

Point being, DD wasn't just your run of the mill brick. He was wickedly fast as well.

How fast was Thragg? Wasn't he easily evading Mark? Look how easily he beats Nolan to the punch, as he uses his entire arm to stab through his torso. I'm seriously hoping that no one is suggesting that Doomsday would spend the entire time speed blitzing Thragg.

Thragg hits harder than DOS Superman ever hit Doomsday. Weaker Viltrimites than Thragg was able to planet kill with an assault. By comparison, a full hit from Thragg may conceivably do to Doomsday what Superman did to him at the very end of the DOS arc. Just putting that out there as a comparison.

Originally posted by Galan007
Some might be.

But the comments from Maxima and Superman(in particular) hold a lot of merit, imo. Superman was actively being ragdolled by Doomsday, and outright stated that he had to keep moving faster in order to match DD's speed.

Point being, DD wasn't just your run of the mill brick. He was wickedly fast as well.

Superman having problems keeping up with DD's speed speaks quite a bit on where he was standing.

Originally posted by Stoic
Thragg hits harder than DOS Superman ever hit Doomsday. Weaker Viltrimites than Thragg was able to planet kill with an assault. By comparison, a full hit from Thragg may conceivably do to Doomsday what Superman did to him at the very end of the DOS arc. Just putting that out there as a comparison.

What feats by Thragg is superior to getting hit by a force that shakes the planet?

Then you have DD moving at flash like speeds per writer's intent.

Thragg

Originally posted by carver9
Thragg

Why? Because you think he is stronger?
DD is way faster and more durable.

Which is most important (or are they all equally important)?

Originally posted by h1a8
What feats by Thragg is superior to getting hit by a force that shakes the planet?

Then you have DD moving at flash like speeds per writer's intent.

Can you show me one scan of Doomsday shaking the planet during the DOS arc? I recall the punch that placed the two of them in a coma, blowing out windows for miles, but no planet shaking. Characters far weaker than Thragg, easily destroyed a planet. Did you ever see the Flash use his top speed against Doomsday? When do we begin to draw a line between what is and isn't considered to be hyperbole?

Originally posted by Stoic
Can you show me one scan of Doomsday shaking the planet during the DOS arc? I recall the punch that placed the two of them in a coma, blowing out windows for miles, but no planet shaking. Characters far weaker than Thragg, easily destroyed a planet. Did you ever see the Flash use his top speed against Doomsday? When do we begin to draw a line between what is and isn't considered to be hyperbole?

They are referring to this:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11133/111331909/6487048-9743034924-55619.jpg

Just to note, they destroyed the planet thanks to Space Racer's gun - without it, they would have died:

https://i.imgur.com/m3b4IEF.jpg

Why would you say Doomsday wasn't fast?

Originally posted by Stoic
How fast was Thragg? Wasn't he easily evading Mark? Look how easily he beats Nolan to the punch, as he uses his entire arm to stab through his torso. I'm seriously hoping that no one is suggesting that Doomsday would spend the entire time speed blitzing Thragg.

My point is I am seriously suggesting Doomsday would spend the entire time blitzing him, just like he spent the entire time blitzing Superman.

Superman held back throughout the entire fight. If he went in with the same attitude that he had at the end of the arc he would've defeated Doomsday in the very first book. Doomsday wouldn't have had the chance to evolve. In a forum we ignore plot which is was one of the reasons that it took Superman as long as it did. This is without the need to ignore CIS. Thragg is not Superman. He wouldn't waste a moment to attempt to kill Doomsday. There's clearly a difference.

Originally posted by Stoic
Superman held back throughout the entire fight. If he went in with the same attitude that he had at the end of the arc he would've defeated Doomsday in the very first book. Doomsday wouldn't have had the chance to evolve. In a forum we ignore plot which is was one of the reasons that it took Superman as long as it did. This is without the need to ignore CIS. Thragg is not Superman. He wouldn't waste a moment to attempt to kill Doomsday. There's clearly a difference.

Guy, Maxima and Booster didn't hold back. the rest of the JLA didn't hold back and nearly died.

Moreover, even if Superman held back - the dialogue clearly states that even early on in the story (when Doomsday was still wearing his green outfit) the two combatants were still moving at speeds which meant people saw them as blurs (i.e. at high speed).

Superman held back until the very end.

DD is too fast and Thragg is too squishy

Why is Thragg squishy?

Originally posted by carver9
Why is Thragg squishy? Because people weaker than Superman can gore him.

Also Vultrimite's fists and hands are disproportionately more durable than their bodys (necks, chest, etc).

Originally posted by h1a8
Because people weaker than Superman can gore him.

Also Vultrimite's fists and hands are disproportionately more durable than their bodys (necks, chest, etc).

Where did you get this from? Peers damage them, not weaklings. So you have to be strong enough to do it just like you have to be strong enough to hurt Superman or Hulk. Example, Zod punching him and almost taking the entire bottom half of his mouth off and Prime blasting a hole in his hand the size of a baseball. Rulk grabbed Hulk arm and broke it to the point the bone being ripped in half. Void broke every bone in his body. People inferior to Vultrimites, Hulk and Superman can't do this. It's common sense. Peers can hurt Peers. That's including DC peers, Marvel peers, etc...

The rest of your post was weird.

What if Thragg was several times stronger than DOS Doomsday when they first meet? Thragg would be aware of who he is facing in a forum battle. Is there any reason that Thragg wouldn't go all out from the start?

Originally posted by carver9
Where did you get this from? Peers damage them, not weaklings. So you have to be strong enough to do it just like you have to be strong enough to hurt Superman or Hulk. Example, Zod punching him and almost taking the entire bottom half of his mouth off and Prime blasting a hole in his hand the size of a baseball. Rulk grabbed Hulk arm and broke it to the point the bone being ripped in half. Void broke every bone in his body. People inferior to Vultrimites, Hulk and Superman can't do this. It's common sense. Peers can hurt Peers. That's including DC peers, Marvel peers, etc...

The rest of your post was weird.

Wrong. A peer should NOT be able to damage them the way they can.
A person's durability is at least their strength level. Otherwise, they couldn't apply that strength without getting damaged.
Thats why you dont see Thor, Hercules, Gladiator, etc punching holes in each other and ripping each other heads off.
If you do see that then that means one character is massively stronger than the other.

Newton's 3rd law: "For every very action, there is an opposite and equal reaction."

That means if it took X amount of force to gore Thragg by character A then character A also withstood the same X amount of force on their hands without being damaged in the slightest.

So either vultrimite's hands are massively more durable than their own bodies or they are just squishy.

And like I said, beings weaker than Superman has gored Thragg.

Originally posted by Stoic
What if Thragg was several times stronger than DOS Doomsday when they first meet? Thragg would be aware of who he is facing in a forum battle. Is there any reason that Thragg wouldn't go all out from the start?

Then I guess we have to prove the underlined part.

Originally posted by Stoic
What if Thragg was several times stronger than DOS Doomsday when they first meet? Thragg would be aware of who he is facing in a forum battle. Is there any reason that Thragg wouldn't go all out from the start?

But Thragg is not several times stronger than DD.

You still forget that DD has feats before DOS, and that DD was far weaker.

A weaker DD fought the Radiant, a being created to specifically killed him. Fought and beat the Guardians, even taking a ring with him. Survived a tear in space.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then I guess we have to prove the underlined part. Beat me to it

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then I guess we have to prove the underlined part.

Any examples for either, or both? DOS era feats weren't as high as present day feats. Just putting that out there.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong. A peer should NOT be able to damage them the way they can.
A person's durability is at least their strength level. Otherwise, they couldn't apply that strength without getting damaged.
Thats why you dont see Thor, Hercules, Gladiator, etc punching holes in each other and ripping each other heads off.
If you do see that then that means one character is massively stronger than the other.

Newton's 3rd law: "For every very action, there is an opposite and equal reaction."

That means if it took X amount of force to gore Thragg by character A then character A also withstood the same X amount of force on their hands without being damaged in the slightest.

So either vultrimite's hands are massively more durable than their own bodies or they are just squishy.

And like I said, beings weaker than Superman has gored Thragg.

Did you just use Newton law for a comic book?

Originally posted by carver9
Did you just use Newton law for a comic book? Yup. And it's valid too for comic books.

Unless you can prove that a person can experience a different force than the one they are exerting, in comics of course.

Originally posted by Stoic
Any examples for either, or both? DOS era feats weren't as high as present day feats. Just putting that out there. True. But that doesn't prove the underlying part.

Originally posted by Stoic
Any examples for either, or both? DOS era feats weren't as high as present day feats. Just putting that out there.

Well you made the claim, so what's Thraggs greatest feat?

Originally posted by h1a8
True. But that doesn't prove the underlying part.

It doesn't disprove it either. Back in those days, using a bus like a baseball bat had a decent amount of wow factor to it, just like a punch capable of knocking out city windows for miles did.

Why do you refuse to post feats, stoic?

Originally posted by Stoic
It doesn't disprove it either. Back in those days, using a bus like a baseball bat had a decent amount of wow factor to it, just like a punch capable of knocking out city windows for miles did.

Lack of evidence = disproof
No evidence = claim is false

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
They are referring to this:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11133/111331909/6487048-9743034924-55619.jpg

Here you go Stoic.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thragg isn't as fast as DD. What's his best combat, reaction and instant movement feats?

Ramming through a planet can be argued not a strength feat since speed and durability is all that matters. Remember, a bullet has no strength.

We can't scale characters off other character's best feats (only their average ones). Otherwise Marvell can do what drax did since he did manhandle him after Drax performed those feats. Same goes for Colossus against Gladiator. Ben against Hulk, etc.
I don't see why we couldn't considering that they are being written by the same author. And he ends up beating them the very next issue after they perform the planet feat. He is also shown to be faster then them during that issue when he blitzes them. He is also shown being able to dodge space racers laser.

Originally posted by Guestdude
I don't see why we couldn't considering that they are being written by the same author. And he ends up beating them the very next issue after they perform the planet feat. He is also shown to be faster then them during that issue when he blitzes them. He is also shown being able to dodge space racers laser.

Characters fluctuate in power due to fiction inconsistency. Thats why characters have variable (highs and lows) showings even by the same writer and in the exact same comic. Thor doesn't get Hercules best feats just because they are shown in a comic to be evenly matched in strength. And vice-versa.
You can only scale off average showings. Not outliers or a character's best. Otherwise i can claim some bogus things.

DD blitz Superman and Superman is far faster than any vultrimite by feats. That doesn't mean anything. Batman, Daredevil, Cap, etc can aim dodge lasers. Again that doesn't mean anything.

You have to give someone he consistently out speed that has established quantifiable feats. Or give quantifiable feats of his own.

Again, a bullet doesn't have strength. Just go through the core of a planet with enough speed to destabilize its core. No strength needed.

Yeah, in that feat with the planet, Mark et al would have died on impact with Viltrum had the Space Racer not shot it first.

Hal Jordan has pretty good durability feats tho.

Originally posted by h1a8
Characters fluctuate in power due to fiction inconsistency. Thats why characters have variable (highs and lows) showings even by the same writer and in the exact same comic. Thor doesn't get Hercules best feats just because they are shown in a comic to be evenly matched in strength. And vice-versa.
You can only scale off average showings. Not outliers or a character's best.

Again, a bullet doesn't have strength. Just go through the core of a planet with enough speed to destabilize its core. No strength needed.


Ok, I was only using the planet burst feat as a counter to doomsdays planet shaking feat. and Thor matching Hercules is a much different scenario then Thragg scaling above Nolan. Thragg scaling above Nolan is more like saying Nappa is moon level because he scales above Raditz who scales above Piccolo and Roshi.
I was mostly using it as a durability feat Thragg being able to break nolans bones with his punches is the strength feat.
I have no idea how fast this era of superman is. so doomsday is probably faster then thragg

Originally posted by Guestdude
Ok, I was only using the planet burst feat as a counter to doomsdays planet shaking feat. and Thor matching Hercules is a much different scenario then Thragg scaling above Nolan. Thragg scaling above Nolan is more like saying Nappa is moon level because he scales above Raditz who scales above Piccolo and Roshi.
I was mostly using it as a durability feat Thragg being able to break nolans bones with his punches is the strength feat.
I have no idea how fast this era of superman is. so doomsday is probably faster then thragg

But outliers are not average showings. Thragg being stronger than Nolan most certainly means that he can duplicate all of Nolan's average strength feats.

But not necessarily his outlier type feats.


Nolan is not even big city level using all of his strength in 99.999% of his showings. He usually punches with less force than mountain busting. And that's using all his strength.

Doomsday is also faster than Flash.

I wish Albert were here.

Some would say he's closer than most.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I wish Albert were here.

Some would say he's closer than most.


I wish Adam Grimes would change his name, I keep getting him confused with Adam Poe.

Thragg stomps tbh