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Who is leaving out of the adamantium cage as the victor? Only one guy left standing...

Silver Surfer
Superman
Sentry
Magician (Ultimate Marvel Universe)
Beta Ray Bill

Everyone have all knowledge about their opponents.

Superman or Sentry

Magic might take Supes out, don't know anything about Magician so I'll say Surfer is the last man standing.

Super and for me easily.

Superman

Sentry or Surfer. LMAO at people picking Superman who has those easily exploitable weaknesses that the others have full knowledge of.

Magician just make anything happens that he think of...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969046?list=post-67993718_11416
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969054?list=post-67993718_11416

He created the Blob and a team with just a thought...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969306?list=post-67993718_11419
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969313?list=post-67993718_11419
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969321?list=post-67993718_11419

Take away the gravity around Blob...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969740?list=post-67993718_11424

Control the ground...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969835?list=post-67993718_11425

Creates another being that stomps the Xmen and brushes off its attack...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969885?list=post-67993718_11426

Boulder...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969939?list=post-67993718_11427

Melts adamantium...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355970433?list=post-67993718_11435


This...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355970758?list=post-67993718_11439
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355970782?list=post-67993718_11439

Creates beings again...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355970907?list=post-67993718_11443

Wolverine kills him...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355971125?list=post-67993718_11447
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355971141?list=post-67993718_11447
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355971159?list=post-67993718_11447

But it was all fake...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355971319?list=post-67993718_11448

Clark wins

Originally posted by carver9
Magician just make anything happens that he think of...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969046?list=post-67993718_11416
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969054?list=post-67993718_11416

He created the Blob and a team with just a thought...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969306?list=post-67993718_11419
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969313?list=post-67993718_11419
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969321?list=post-67993718_11419

Take away the gravity around Blob...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969740?list=post-67993718_11424

Control the ground...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969835?list=post-67993718_11425

Creates another being that stomps the Xmen and brushes off its attack...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969885?list=post-67993718_11426

Boulder...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355969939?list=post-67993718_11427

Melts adamantium...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355970433?list=post-67993718_11435


This...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355970758?list=post-67993718_11439
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355970782?list=post-67993718_11439

Creates beings again...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355970907?list=post-67993718_11443

Wolverine kills him...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355971125?list=post-67993718_11447
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355971141?list=post-67993718_11447
https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355971159?list=post-67993718_11447

But it was all fake...

https://m.vk.com/photo-67993718_355971319?list=post-67993718_11448

Great scans. Superman speedblitzes.

Surfer will sense Superman's weaknesses from the get-go and eliminate him first. Magician would do the same thing. Even bill could get rid of him. Don't even mention Sentry who would stomp Superman. These are the worst opponents for Superman especially with full knowledge of him.

Originally posted by JBL
Surfer will sense Superman's weaknesses from the get-go and eliminate him first. Magician would do the same thing. Even bill could get rid of him. Don't even mention Sentry who would stomp Superman. These are the worst opponents for Superman especially with full knowledge of him.

Because 1. Surfer is the paragon of sensing his enemies weakness.
2. Superman has never fought while being weakened, or explicitly have his weakness use against him right?

Sentry... eventually.

Originally posted by SquallX
Because 1. Surfer is the paragon of sensing his enemies weakness.
2. Superman has never fought while being weakened, or explicitly have his weakness use against him right? This is a battle forum, not a pre-determined comic book. They won't allow Superman to fall and die in the comic because he's the hero. On here, he's a fighter and once weakened, he will be killed without hesitation. I could write a story about a man beating a bear, then take that same man and take him to the zoo and stick him in the cage with a bear and watch him get killed. You Superman fans get it confused. You think just because he's allowed to win in the comic book he's going to do it on a battle forum. A battle forum dictates what would really happen, a comic book dictates what they want to happen.

Superman jumps up in the cage and the rest all die. Including WBH cheering from the stands

Originally posted by JBL
Surfer will sense Superman's weaknesses from the get-go and eliminate him first. Magician would do the same thing. Even bill could get rid of him. Don't even mention Sentry who would stomp Superman. These are the worst opponents for Superman especially with full knowledge of him.

What are Surfer's best sensing feats in combat,? Magician? BRB?

I do like how they all gang up on Supes though.

Superman thinks that he blitzed Magician but he really didn't and Magician controls him and everyone else on the battle field and could potentially make duplicates of them...

https://ibb.co/zRqzmmL
https://ibb.co/9prx1kz
https://ibb.co/GxFhZTr

He was able to fool Charles and create beings that even Charles thought was real. He was wiping the minds of the Xmen while Charles was actively trying to prevent it with his TP. Yes, he can EASILY do the same to Supes. Please don't say he can't because Supes recently got controlled to the point that he was battling his son.

He was even able to turn off Kitty Pride powers...

https://ibb.co/vhZSt8L

Charles can't sense him but he was in the back yard. Charles said it was like he never existed.

https://ibb.co/WVLVSsN

Also, his powers are ALWAYS active. Reality warps around him. His powers provides him with whatever he wants. I feel confident a blitz isn't what he wants...

https://ibb.co/cxLYw5Y

You do realise all things are canon, yes?

So Pre Crisis shenanigans are allowed? Superman is also able to make dupes of himself, and can casually time travel.....

Also, why is Sentry just allowing Magician to warp reality?

You are making it sound like Marvel gangs up on DC lol, when Magician isn't even from the same universe as the others, last time BRB Surfer and Sentry met they fought, and BRB currently doesn't have his hammer.....

Superman haven't used any of those shenanigans you're mentioning, recently. Stop taking the desperate approach. The only reason I mentioned Superman is because when I posted showings of Magician, your response was "Superman speed blitz". What did you expect me to say after that? If Superman attempts to blitz him, why would Magician attack Surfer or Sentry? 🤔🤔🤔

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Great scans. Superman speedblitzes.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman haven't used any of those shenanigans you're mentioning, recently. Stop taking the desperate approach. The only reason I mentioned Superman is because when I posted showings of Magician, your response was "Superman speed blitz". What did you expect me to say after that? If Superman attempts to blitz him, why would Magician attack Surfer or Sentry? 🤔🤔🤔

Why wouldn't Sentry attack Magician? Surfer? Remember, they all know each other's powers, why wouldn't a reality warper (Sentry) see another reality warper (Magician) as a threat?

I don't care about recently. It's all canon. You don't like it, as OP you can handicap Superman as you want, it's your thread.

I can change it up if you want. Sentry speedblitzes Magician. There we go

You mentioned Superman blitzing Magician, I didn't. He blitz Magician and forget who he is blitzing and gets koed by his own duplicate.

Did the mods put in the rules that precrisis fts are available to Superman because he's been ktfo recently and I don't think we just wipe these showings clear just because you think he is precrisis level.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I can change it up if you want. Sentry speedblitzes Magician. There we go

Sentry will be attacking other opponents because he won't even know Magician is there and he will be getting manipulated.

Originally posted by carver9
You mentioned Superman blitzing Magician, I didn't. He blitz Magician and forget who he is blitzing and gets koed by his own duplicate.

Did the mods put in the rules that precrisis fts are available to Superman because he's been ktfo recently and I don't think we just wipe these showings clear just because you think he is precrisis level.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman told Jon about all of his previous encounters with Mxy in AC #975 (2017):
https://i.ibb.co/Xj2yv9T/Action-Comics-975-019.jpg

And as you can see in the above artwork, his stories included their very first encounter in Superman v1 #30 (1944):
https://i.ibb.co/Sd6h22L/Untitled.jpg


So even before the "everything is canon" concept that Death Metal is going to introduce, Superman still evidently had full knowledge of his Golden Age past.

Originally posted by carver9
Sentry will be attacking other opponents because he won't even know Magician is there and he will be getting manipulated.

Wait why wouldn't he know? Why wouldn't Surfer know (Surfer is still intangible, btw, unless they've explained KiB)?

I know you just want to wank Magician. But considering Supes (as an example off the top of my head) can see souls (which Magician doesn't have any showings of hiding), Surfer has TP that hides things from Galactus, and can hide from Eternity etc etc, the onus is on you to prove that 'recreating Blob' is somehow = to recreating dupes of these guys.

I mean, what is his limit? Can he recreate TOAA? TOBA? Black Winter? Cosmic Thor?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What are Surfer's best sensing feats in combat,? Magician? BRB?

I do like how they all gang up on Supes though.

It doesn't matter tbh. Time travel to some is just the ability to move faster than others.
Superman may actually be matched by the Sentry. I say may, because I don't recall any hard speed limits given to him. It was stated that he lives several seconds in the future though.

Superman is probably fast enough to beat the Magician from the start of the match unless the Magician automatically casts an illusion as soon as the match begins? It seems plausible, just saying. If successful, the illusion would likely affect every character on the battlefield equally.

The Power Cosmic has power over natural organic lifeforms because of their bioelectric signature. This is something that only occurs when he is written correctly. Most, if not all versions of the Sentry, would murder the Surfer. The Power Cosmic has no effect on him, because the Sentry isn't a natural organic lifeform. The Molecule Man mentions this. It's also the reason that Terrax was helpless before him.

Superman is a natural organic lifeform, which is the complete opposite of the Sentry; who is basically just a living toon. Even his molecules are foreign to the ones in reality. The Surfer can hitch a ride on any bioelectric signature because of the Power Cosmic. Superman is a living solar sponge, just like the Hulk is a living gamma sponge. We've all seen the results of how that went down.

Which brings up the question. Which version of the Sentry is this? Merged? Pre-Merged? Death-Seed? Voidtry? They're all just figments of Bob's imagination come to life. He has no real control over what episode comes next either, due to his condition. I can't see the Surfer doing very well against any of the versions of Sentry. Some would rape him worse than others, but they'd all beat the shit out of him.

Bill would go out like a light. Superman would punish Bill for a quick to us, eternity for him beat-down. Even Gladiator would beat the shit out of Bill, and Gladiator is inferior to Superman.

Can Superman detect the Magician by seeing through his illusion?

Pretty interesting matchups.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait why wouldn't he know? Why wouldn't Surfer know (Surfer is still intangible, btw, unless they've explained KiB)?

I know you just want to wank Magician. But considering Supes (as an example off the top of my head) can see souls (which Magician doesn't have any showings of hiding), Surfer has TP that hides things from Galactus, and can hide from Eternity etc etc, the onus is on you to prove that 'recreating Blob' is somehow = to recreating dupes of these guys.

I mean, what is his limit? Can he recreate TOAA? TOBA? Black Winter? Cosmic Thor?

Those are really good points.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait why wouldn't he know? Why wouldn't Surfer know (Surfer is still intangible, btw, unless they've explained KiB)?

I know you just want to wank Magician. But considering Supes (as an example off the top of my head) can see souls (which Magician doesn't have any showings of hiding), Surfer has TP that hides things from Galactus, and can hide from Eternity etc etc, the onus is on you to prove that 'recreating Blob' is somehow = to recreating dupes of these guys.

I mean, what is his limit? Can he recreate TOAA? TOBA? Black Winter? Cosmic Thor?

I already posted scans. Xavier said it was as if he disappeared from existence even though he was in Xavier back yard.

If Charles can't detect him, Surfer, Superman nor Sentry is detecting him. He was manipulating Charles and the Xmen, easily and again, Superman have recently been controlled...

https://ibb.co/vqP2hSQ
https://ibb.co/9wpFzq0

He gets manipulated. Also, why do you have everyone attacking Magician? Wouldn't that be like the most dangerous approach? Focusing all of your attention on one person that you won't find?

Originally posted by carver9
I already posted scans. Xavier said it was as if he disappeared from existence even though he was in Xavier back yard.

If Charles can't detect him, Surfer, Superman nor Sentry is detecting him. He was manipulating Charles and the Xmen, easily and again, Superman have recently been controlled...

https://ibb.co/vqP2hSQ
https://ibb.co/9wpFzq0

He gets manipulated. Also, why do you have everyone attacking Magician? Wouldn't that be like the most dangerous approach? Focusing all of your attention on one person that you won't find?

Superman can see souls:
https://imgur.com/a/LTFcw
https://i.postimg.cc/nLDMPLxT/RiNYn5t.jpg

Surfer:
https://i.imgur.com/aVrOoNc.jpg

Sentry can track auras:
https://i.imgur.com/Ys14MrX.jpg

If you want to assert that Magician can hide from them, onus is on you to prove it. Just because Ultimate Prof X couldn't detect him, doesn't mean these guys can't.

I am not necessarily saying all these guys attack Magician. It is a free-for-all, after all, only one of them can exit. But they all know each other's powers, but Magician is hampered by coming from a crappy universe, and doesn't have the feats to compare against these guys.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, his powers are ALWAYS active. Reality warps around him. His powers provides him with whatever he wants. I feel confident a blitz isn't what he wants...

https://ibb.co/cxLYw5Y

Reality warps around him. His powers provides him with whatever he wants.

What reality resistant fts does anyone have here?

Originally posted by carver9
Reality warps around him. His powers provides him with whatever he wants.

What reality resistant fts does anyone have here?

Superman against Dominus:
https://imgur.com/a/z0yvm

Surfer against reality:
https://i.imgur.com/CRHsQJK.jpg

Sentry...well, I believe he fought a guy called Molecule Man once. A guy whose feats poop all over Magician and 'creating the Blob', lol.

But sure, don't go down this tangent - I know you are avoiding the question:

So again, I ask you - PROVE MAGICIAN CAN HIDE FROM THEM. Hiding from Ultimate Prof X =/= hiding from these guys. I think you need to remember who Sentry et al are.

Sentry, remember, MINDWIPED THE ENTIRETY OF 616 MARVEL from remembering him.

And I am not even getting into Pre-Crisis stuff here, lol. I mean, I can....

Still Zuperman by speed blitz and raw power. Imo easily.

Carver has convinced me Magician is screwed

Carver, why do you even bother? They will vote Superman even if it's obvious he gets murdered here. Don't waste your time and effort.

Originally posted by JBL
Carver, why do you even bother? They will vote Superman even if it's obvious he gets murdered here. Don't waste your time and effort. JBL why do you bother with your lazy trolling?

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
JBL why do you bother with your lazy trolling? Why do you lie? Superman is NOT the most powerful here and speedblitzs won't save him here.

Originally posted by JBL
Carver, why do you even bother? They will vote Superman even if it's obvious he gets murdered here. Don't waste your time and effort.

I don't think Magician is the top dog, that's all. And yes, I've read his appearances.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I don't think Magician is the top dog, that's all. And yes, I've read his appearances. It's obvious who you think the top dog is.

Originally posted by JBL
Why do you lie? Superman is NOT the most powerful here and speedblitzs won't save him here. Disagree. Why do you bother lazy trolling?

Originally posted by JBL
It's obvious who you think the top dog is.

Probably Sentry.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Disagree. Why do you bother lazy trolling? So Superman is more powerful than the power cosmic, Sentry and a Reality warper?? Smh.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Probably Sentry.

Naw, not since KiB.

Enigma Force made Norrin solid iirc.

Bill has a Skuttlebut ax last time I checked. No storm breaker.

From strongest to weakest:
Superman
Silver Surfer
Sentry
Beta Ray Bill
Magician

Who wins? Clark. Good thread

Originally posted by JBL
So Superman is more powerful than the power cosmic, Sentry and a Reality warper?? Smh. Superman is by feats the most powerful there, consistently.

Superman casually put barbatos go sleep with a single punch, who in this group can survive that if Superman is serious?

Originally posted by Diesldude
Superman casually put barbatos go sleep with a single punch, who in this group can survive that if Superman is serious?

Originally posted by Diesldude
Superman casually put barbatos go sleep with a single punch, who in this group can survive that if Superman is serious?

It wasn't casual

Originally posted by Sin I AM
It wasn't casual barbatos was running his mouth and Superman was like aah go to sleep.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Superman is by feats the most powerful there, consistently. I see that you don't know what the word powerful mean.

Do you think Magician is top dog here JBL? Simple yes/no q....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superman against Dominus:
https://imgur.com/a/z0yvm

Surfer against reality:
https://i.imgur.com/CRHsQJK.jpg

Sentry...well, I believe he fought a guy called Molecule Man once. A guy whose feats poop all over Magician and 'creating the Blob', lol.

But sure, don't go down this tangent - I know you are avoiding the question:

So again, I ask you - PROVE MAGICIAN CAN HIDE FROM THEM. Hiding from Ultimate Prof X =/= hiding from these guys. I think you need to remember who Sentry et al are.

Sentry, remember, MINDWIPED THE ENTIRETY OF 616 MARVEL from remembering him.

And I am not even getting into Pre-Crisis stuff here, lol. I mean, I can....

Wasn't Superman using TVO there and looking at the scan, it temporary worked.

The scans you've posted isn't consistent, AND, I've already proven that Superman mind can get screwed with using recent showings. I don't know why you are ignoring this.

Sentry can get mind raped along with Surfer and Bill. That's all it would take and after that, Magician can basically do whatever he wants. Especially with his abilities always being active.

Sentry has mindwiped far better reality warpers and telepaths, so you're going to have to do better than that.

What proof do you have that Magician can hide?

Already provided proof. He wiped himself from existence. As if he was never there. It's not a bfr or him just disappearing like Sue. He was there but to others he never existed.

https://ibb.co/WVLVSsN

Originally posted by carver9
Already provided proof. He wiped himself from existence. As if he was never there. It's not a bfr or him just disappearing like Sue. He was there but to others he never existed.

https://ibb.co/WVLVSsN

But WHO did he fool with this ability? Do they have any sensory feats?

Are you saying he can hide from TOAA?

THIS is how you prove to me that he can hide, lmao.

Here, Surfer hides from Eternity, the ENTIRE RACE OF WATCHERS, and the ENTIRETY of the Marvel U, for thousands of years, lol:

https://i.postimg.cc/3WPdZt9r/RCO004-w.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/kBKDYWhQ/RCO005-2.jpg

But sure, keep telling me that hiding from Ultimate Professor X trumps that/

Originally posted by carver9
Already provided proof. He wiped himself from existence. As if he was never there. It's not a bfr or him just disappearing like Sue. He was there but to others he never existed.

https://ibb.co/WVLVSsN

Tell me, do any of these "others" (Ultimate Colossus, Wolverine, Prof X, Jean Grey etc) possess the ability to see souls?

https://i.postimg.cc/nLDMPLxT/RiNYn5t.jpg

Do any of them possess the ability to see in 4D?
https://imgur.com/a/QfD78

Do any of them possess the ability to sense quantum fluctuations?
https://imgur.com/a/iCjhA

If yes, then you might have a point. But your scans are like saying I can sneak past Stevie Wonder as some proof that I can sneak past ....well, anyone else.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
THIS is how you prove to me that he can hide, lmao.

Here, Surfer hides from Eternity, the ENTIRE RACE OF WATCHERS, and the ENTIRETY of the Marvel U, for thousands of years, lol:

https://i.postimg.cc/3WPdZt9r/RCO004-w.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/kBKDYWhQ/RCO005-2.jpg

But sure, keep telling me that hiding from Ultimate Professor X trumps that/

Nice. This guy gets it. That really is a top tier feat

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Naw, not since KiB.

Enigma Force made Norrin solid iirc.

Bill has a Skuttlebut ax last time I checked. No storm breaker.

From strongest to weakest:
Superman
Silver Surfer
Sentry
Beta Ray Bill
Magician

Who wins? Clark. Good thread

You think that was real? Sentry is a puppet. You didn't notice his suit color? That wasn't the Sentry at his to date most powerful form. He isn't dead either. He or it can't die. Bob probably just said phuck it, let the other super clowns deal with this, because we all know that sooner or later, the Sentry will be back.

Originally posted by Stoic
You think that was real? Sentry is a puppet. You didn't notice his suit color? That wasn't the Sentry at his to date most powerful form. He isn't dead either. He or it can't die. Bob probably just said phuck it, let the other super clowns deal with this, because we all know that sooner or later, the Sentry will be back.

Yes it was real. Yes Sentry has consistently been a puppet (apocalypse twins, Norman Osborn, etc). Yes he's dead. It was shown on panel. Yes he can die, they were literally playing with his corpse. Just because you don't like it doesn't negate canon.

Thor killed Sentry too. People just can't take on panel evidence and accept it

I think everyone here has been wrecked with Surfer having the least wreckage showings

Originally posted by carver9
I think everyone here has been wrecked with Surfer having the least wreckage showings only because he's not used as much as the other heavy hitters barring bill. But feat wise he's a solid 2 on the list

When it comes to consistency and power displayed, he's number 1 imo.

Originally posted by carver9
When it comes to consistency and power displayed, he's number 1 imo.
Magician is no longer top dog?

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Magician is no longer top dog?

I said that? Also, being the most powerful doesn't equal win.

Originally posted by carver9
I said that? Also, being the most powerful doesn't equal win.

The logic behind Carver not giving this to Superman

Originally posted by carver9
When it comes to consistency and power displayed, he's number 1 imo.

That's vague. What specifically has he done that'd put him above Thor for example?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
That's vague. What specifically has he done that'd put him above Thor for example?

Fought and defeated Knull. Let's start there. Even amped Thor couldn't do this.

Originally posted by carver9
Fought and defeated Knull. Let's start there. Even amped Thor couldn't do this.

But he was far above Surfer:

Originally posted by carver9
He was far above Surfer and he just ripped Sentry in half and owned the the Void. The same Sentry that mud stomped a Celestial in the same comic. Stop.

Which means it must have been PIS....

Originally posted by carver9
Fought and defeated Knull. Let's start there. Even amped Thor couldn't do this.

Context. Thor was struck in the back. Norrin had help

Lol... I wonder how long it took you to find that post. Surfer versatility helped him in a fight against Knull and Knull wrecking Thor proves he is far above Thor as well. Only difference is, Surfer won and Thor didn't and Surfer showing against Knull was better.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Context. Thor was struck in the back. Norrin had help

What help did Surfer have? They fought more than once and to add to that, Surfer was weakened AND Surfer fought him in his element.

Superman still easily wins this. Speedblitz few!

Everyone here can react to his speed blitz and Surfer just goes intangible, create duplicates of himself and sit back and watch as they stomp some of the members, including Supes. Or he simply snatch souls out or create a red sun.

Originally posted by carver9
Everyone here can react to his speed blitz and Surfer just goes intangible, create duplicates of himself and sit back and watch as they stomp some of the members, including Supes. Or he simply snatch souls out or create a red sun. Prove it.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Prove it.

Ok, show me the speed blitz you want me to prove they can react to, then we can go from there.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, show me the speed blitz you want me to prove they can react to, then we can go from there. So, you can't O.K.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
So, you can't O.K.

So you have nothing? All you had to say. I'm sure Dark will come in and assist, soon.

Originally posted by carver9
So you have nothing? All you had to say. I'm sure Dark will come in and assist, soon. No!

Yes!

Superman speedblitz ftw.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I wonder how long it took you to find that post. Surfer versatility helped him in a fight against Knull and Knull wrecking Thor proves he is far above Thor as well. Only difference is, Surfer won and Thor didn't and Surfer showing against Knull was better.

Lol the search function took me....a couple of seconds.

So Surfer was far below Knull yet managed to beat him, yet you don't think it's PIS?

Ahhh but Surfer used his versatility! Correct.

Weakness exploit, then. Metallo can beat Superman and Supergirl combined, but Magneto would smoke him.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Superman speedblitz ftw.

Based on???

Surfer moved so fast around Earth that he time traveled. He did this off of pure speed. Something that most of the time, Flash himself have to use a device to do. And yes, this showing includes speed, perception, reflexes, etc...

https://m.imgur.com/a/jQVQe2C

Does it again...

https://m.imgur.com/a/9cKtlNP

Does it again...

https://m.imgur.com/a/7O3BXyp

Again...

https://m.imgur.com/a/QZ4Sobe

Again...

https://m.imgur.com/a/zbIxYka

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer moved so fast around Earth that he time traveled. He did this off of pure speed. Something that most of the time, Flash himself have to use a device to do. And yes, this showing includes speed, perception, reflexes, etc...

https://m.imgur.com/a/jQVQe2C

ROFLMAO.

So, when it suits you, old-ass scans are admissible, are they??

OK.

Here, Superman catches something moving extremely quickly:
https://imgur.com/a/3xbiQ

How quickly?
https://imgur.com/a/9e71V

The speed of light was a snail's crawl compared to them.

But you seem to want travel speed

Here is Superman travelling at infinite speed:
https://imgur.com/a/nOeX9

THAT is pure speed, my friend.

I knew you would say that which is the reason I posted current showings and also, you keep thinking PreCrisis stuff is applicable. I'm not accepting that because he is NOWHERE near that power. I can 100% provide evidence of that. The Surfer in the scans above are weaker than current Surfer.

Originally posted by carver9


I knew you would say that which is the reason I posted current showings and also, you keep thinking PreCrisis stuff is applicable. I'm not accepting that because he is NOWHERE near that power. I can 100% provide evidence of that.

Want me to get some mods in? Your acceptance of stuff means nothing to me, so no need to post any evidence. Your feelings are moot.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Here is Superman travelling at infinite speed:
https://imgur.com/a/nOeX9

THAT is pure speed, my friend.
Faster than that, Since Superman needed to break the infinity itself

All versions of Superman count now.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Want me to get some mods in? Your acceptance of stuff means nothing to me, so no need to post any evidence. Your feelings are moot.

Don't care tbh because again, he's no where CLOSE to that power recently, so you posting fts from precrisis means absolutely nothing. It's like posting scans from an amped character. Superman back then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Superman now. So post away. He currently can't do any of that which again, makes your scan, poo poo. I'm talking about soft dooky. You're posting thise scans for your pleasure, not for this debate.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't care tbh because again, he's no where CLOSE to that power recently, so you posting fts from precrisis means absolutely nothing. It's like posting scans from an amped character. Superman back then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Superman now. So post away. He currently can't do any of that which again, makes your scan, poo poo. I'm talking about soft dooky. You're posting thise scans for your pleasure, not for this debate.

So I shall get some mods in, OK. Then we can have a nice ruling, just like with speed and with Hercs

I wonder what Galan and Pr think, do you wonder what they think about PC Supes etc?

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
All versions of Superman count now.

It does? Does this count? Also, Lady Shiva beat him after this...

https://dreager1.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/shadowdragon03.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So I shall get some mods in, OK. Then we can have a nice ruling, just like with speed and with Hercs

I wonder what Galan and Pr think, do you wonder what they think about PC Supes etc? I think you should

Originally posted by carver9
It does? Does this count? Also, Lady Shiva beat him after this...

https://dreager1.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/shadowdragon03.jpg

Only one way to answer your question is to get some mod rulings, right?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So I shall get some mods in, OK. Then we can have a nice ruling, just like with speed and with Hercs

I wonder what Galan and Pr think, do you wonder what they think about PC Supes etc?

... I don't know but again, CURRENT Superman can not achieve anything close to PreCrisis level fts, so it really doesn't matter. Does his magic weakness and red sunlight showings from Precrisis also count?

So Carver using old showings for Surfer while not allowing others to use old showings for Superman. Seems pretty double standard

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So Carver using old showings for Surfer while not allowing others to use old showings for Superman. Seems pretty double standard

Surfer is weaker back then than he is now. Wtf. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Superman is more powerful back then than he is now. Posting scans for classic Surfer achieving great fts when overall he was WEAKER proves how powerful CURRENT Surfer is. Posting scans of Precrisis Superman a more powerful version of Supes compared to current Superman doesn't make one bit of sense. You might as well post Sundip fts for a non amped Superman.😶😶😶

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Only one way to answer your question is to get some mod rulings, right? Mods! MODS! MODS!

Originally posted by carver9
... I don't know but again, CURRENT Superman can not achieve anything close to PreCrisis level fts, so it really doesn't matter. Does his magic weakness and red sunlight showings from Precrisis also count?

Hmmm.

https://i.imgur.com/hW18c1Q.jpeg

He have magical low showings far outweighing that and then we have this... remember, all showings matter.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-70f35a62cdc7f225a3c02f61df877e4f

Indeed they do.

I have made my thread for the mods here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t676262.html

So let us see.

Mind you, using low showings breaks the 'Full Capacity' rule

Gotcha...remember, if all past things count, for every speed ft you post, there is a counter. Example, this...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bb59b84cbdae0bf9faa23523b66191d8

Full capacity rule, my friend. Please stop misinterpreting the rules.

How is that scan misrepresented? Tell me in that scan what was said for me to misrepresent it? Does full capacity means nothing but high showings? Or do we average everything out?

Originally posted by carver9
How is that scan misrepresented? Tell me in that scan what was said for me to misrepresent it? Does full capacity means nothing but high showings? Or do we average everything out?

Post the rules which state we use average showings.....

Full capacity means they fight at their optimum levels. So you using that scan is clearly not Superman at his best.

Post the rules that states we use nothing but high showings. To the best of their abilities doesn't mean nothing but high showings either since we haven't came to the conclusion on what defines the their best.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer is weaker back then than he is now. Wtf. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Superman is more powerful back then than he is now. Posted scans for classic Surfer achieving great fts when overall he was WEAKER proves how powerful CURRENT Surfer is. Posting scans of Precrisis Superman a more powerful version of Supes compared to current Superman doesn't make one bit of sense. You might as well post Sundip fts for a non amped Superman.😶😶😶 Your analogy is terrible. Firstly, What Superman did here isnt when he was amped. Secondly, pre-crisis and post-crisis and post-flashpoint are the same character thanks to Death Metal. And DC havent given any official explicit proofs that current Superman is weaker than his previous self
So its more like the thread purpose is you trying to wank some of your characters while knowing if we use high end feats for Superman then he will beat the characters that you want to wank

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Your analogy is terrible. Firstly, What Superman did here isnt when he was amped. Secondly, pre-crisis and post-crisis and post-flashpoint are the same character thanks to Death Metal. And DC havent given any official explicit proofs that current Superman is weaker than his previous self
So its more like the thread purpose is you trying to wank some of your characters while knowing if we use high end feats for Superman than he will beat the characters that you want to wank

He's obviously weaker. Pre Crisis Superman vs Current Mongul, how many out of 10 would you give Pre Crisis Superman. Also, Superman admitted he couldn't beat Zaar. I feel confident Pre Crisis Superman would wreck him. Superman also admitted him and Cyborg are equals and I sure as hell don't think Cyborg Superman is anywhere close to Pre Crisis level.

Originally posted by carver9
Post the rules that states we use nothing but high showings. To the best of their abilities doesn't mean nothing but high showings either since we haven't came to the conclusion on what defines the their best.

Don't answer me with a question, you assert we 'average' out their showings.

So prove it. Show me where in the forum rules we do so.

I can't answer that question since again, the mods never defined that. We don't exempt all showings and focus on nothing but highs. Never been like that. Especially looking at how the forum is currently treating Thor.

Imagine if we used nothing but high showings...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/109250/2289115-ThorDurability20-300.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
He's obviously weaker. Pre Crisis Superman vs Current Mongul, how many out of 10 would you give Pre Crisis Superman. Also, Superman admitted he couldn't beat Zaar. I feel confident Pre Crisis Superman would wreck him. Superman also admitted him and Cyborg are equals and I sure as hell don't think Cyborg Superman is anywhere close to Pre Crisis level.
You typed a lot trying to say "No, only low showings(lets even assume its true) of Superman are available. But high showings of other characters are allowed even though theyre performed probably decades ago "

Originally posted by carver9
I can't answer that question since again, the mods never defined that. We don't exempt all showings and focus on nothing but highs. Never been like that. Especially looking at how the forum is currently treating Thor.

So based on absolutely nothing ,got ya.

Originally posted by carver9
What help did Surfer have? They fought more than once and to add to that, Surfer was weakened AND Surfer fought him in his element.

Ego. And you're forgetting that Thor was struck from behind.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
You typed a lot trying to say "No, only low showings(lets even assume its true) of Superman are available. But high showings of other characters are allowed even though theyre performed probably decades ago "

Which what you're saying, ALL showings are available to use for that character. Gotcha. Which makes my scans I posted relevant. So again, people that have defeated Superman recently, are we assuming they are precrisis level? People that Superman himself admitted is his equal, do we also assume this?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So based on absolutely nothing ,got ya.

For both of our comment, yes. Lol... we don't ignore showings, Dark. Lol!!!

Originally posted by carver9
Which what you're saying, ALL showings are available to use for that character. Gotcha. Which makes my scans I posted relevant. So again, people that have defeated Superman recently, are we assuming they are precrisis level? People that Superman himself admitted is his equal, do we also assume this? So you just proved my point that you trying to use low showings for Superman while not allowing his high showings. Thanks for admitting your double standard

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So you just proved my point that you trying to use low showings for Superman while not allowing his high showings. Thanks for admitting your double standard

I clearly said on the previous page that we need a middle ground. We are either going to focus on his lows, mids or highs or find a middle ground. I for one don't think Hulk have reality warping durability or consistent Abstract level strength consistently which is the reason I don't mention it unless people I'm debating with only focus on high showings. This is obvious unless we can all just agree Thor have Celestial level durability with Chaos King piercing lighting and multiple star level strength. This is IF we just focus on high showings. People like Kalibak and Zaar, Zod, Faora, hell, even Darkseid, should be nothing but a smear under Thor boots.

Originally posted by carver9
For both of our comment, yes. Lol... we don't ignore showings, Dark. Lol!!!



My stance at least has some merit. You have absolutely nothing.

Here you go, Carv: forum rulings:


No one here gives a poop about what YOU think, or how YOU feel about this, before you say anything along those lines. Whether you agree or disagree, is moot - fact is, that's what is written.

Originally posted by carver9
I clearly said on the previous page that we need a middle ground. We are either going to focus on his lows, mids or highs or find a middle ground. I for one don't think Hulk have reality warping durability or consistent Abstract level strength consistently which is the reason I don't mention it unless people I'm debating with only focus on high showings. This is obvious unless we can all just agree Thor have Celestial level durability with Chaos King piercing lighting and multiple star level strength. This is IF we just focus on high showings. People like Kalibak and Zaar, Zod, Faora, hell, even Darkseid, should be nothing but a smear under Thor boots. Except Superman did a lot of these crazy things in pre crisis. So where do you draw the line of a middle ground? Or more simple question: What level do you think Superman at when considering all showings in his history
Not to mention Full Capacity rule that allows character to use their best ability. Such as assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability
And as DS posted, Superman does have that speed. But you trying to deny that

@Dark...

Seems like the mods are saying we should auto give Superman the win in all threads. If that is the case, then he needs to be removed, period. That's if that rule is still in play. Is that what they are saying? That no matter what, on the forum, he should win?

Your first post was about Flash.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Except Superman did a lot of these crazy things in pre crisis. So where do you draw the line of a middle ground? Or more simple question: What level do you think Superman at when considering all showings in his history
Not to mention Full Capacity rule that allows character to use their best ability. Such as assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability
And as DS posted, Superman does have that speed. But you trying to deny that

Yes, in Pre Crisis. My argument is that, he CURRENTLY can not replicate those showings.

Full capacity is talking about powers, not the capabilities of those powers. Example, I can't say Superman won't use his speed if there's evidence that he does have Superman speed. It also doesn't mean use nothing but high showings. Again I ask, if we are using nothing but high showings, do you agree with Zod not being able to scratch Thor and Thor being able to melt his body with one hit based off Thor high showings (damaging Chaos King, punching Gor so hard, Stars light years away was flickering)? Don't avoid the question.

Originally posted by carver9
@Dark...

Seems like the mods are saying we should auto give Superman the win in all threads. If that is the case, then he needs to be removed, period. That's if that rule is still in play. Is that what they are saying? That no matter what, on the forum, he should win?

Your first post was about Flash.

I underlined the important part for you. Flash has that level of speed.

Superman has that level of speed. Level of strength etc.

As for the second post, that rule is indeed in play. Guess you missed it

It's about Flash, not Superman.

Also, if that is a rule, like I said, they should ban Superman. The mods are just as human as we are, they wank the F out or Superman. This is quite obvious. If they made that little piece you posted facts, it is pointless even discussing this character.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, in Pre Crisis. My argument is that, he CURRENTLY can not replicate those showings.

Full capacity is talking about powers, not the capabilities of those powers. Example, I can't say Superman won't use his speed if there's evidence that he does have Superman speed. It also doesn't mean use nothing but high showings. Again I ask, if we are using nothing but high showings, do you agree with Zod not being able to scratch Thor and Thor being able to melt his body with one hit based off Thor high showings (damaging Chaos King, punching Gor so hard, Stars light years away was flickering)? Don't avoid the question.
Originally posted by Galan007
Same.

If indeed all character showings(in DC's history) become usable after this event, people will just have to specify which 'version' of the characters they're intending to use in the OP. For example: "post-Crisis" Superman, "DCnU" Superman, "Rebirth" Superman, etc.

...Unless they want all of Superman's showings(across all eras) to be usable. In which case it would default to "current" Superman.


Going to be a royal pain in the ass.
Originally posted by -Pr-
In part, yes. It was never "OMGZ Superman is an heckin' Skyfather!"; it was always more about how Superman defies classification, and the headaches that come with that.

People still either haven't read Doomsday Clock, or don't understand that PRE-CRISIS stuff, in it's entirety, was basically made canon. PRE-CRISIS. And everyone knows how ridiculous that guy was.
So basically current Superman= all era Superman per mods
And how does the rest you said relevant to my point?
Here thats what I said in my original post
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So Carver using old showings for Surfer while not allowing others to use old showings for Superman. Seems pretty double standard
Like I said, My whole point is your double standard. The entire thread you made just trying to wank some of your characters

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So basically current Superman= all era Superman per mods
And how does the rest you said relevant to my point?
Here thats what I said in my original post

Like I said, My whole point is your double standard. The entire thread you made just trying to wank some of your characters

WTF, how do you not understand my point. Again, Surfer...currently...is...more...powerful...than...his...classic...self. Current...Superman...is...weaker...than...his...Pre Crisis...self. 1+1=2. We can BZ this if you want. Pre Crisis Superman and Current Surfer vs Current Superman and Classic Surfer. I'm down. If you don't understand what I'm saying, then this debate is over.

Superman wins easily.

Originally posted by carver9
WTF, how do you not understand my point. Again, Surfer...currently...is...more...powerful...than...his...classic...self. Current...Superman...is...weaker...than...his...Pre Crisis...self. 1+1=2. We can BZ this if you want. Pre Crisis Superman and Current Surfer vs Current Superman and Classic Surfer. I'm down. If you don't understand what I'm saying, then this debate is over.
And my point is Superman is the same character and if we want to use his pre crisis stuff we can use per mods. Also this debate isnt about A VS B, Its about your double standard. Same words to you: If you dont understand what Im saying then this debate is over
Originally posted by Galan007
Same.

If indeed all character showings(in DC's history) become usable after this event, people will just have to specify which 'version' of the characters they're intending to use in the OP. For example: "post-Crisis" Superman, "DCnU" Superman, "Rebirth" Superman, etc.

...Unless they want all of Superman's showings(across all eras) to be usable. In which case it would default to "current" Superman.


Going to be a royal pain in the ass.

Originally posted by carver9
It's about Flash, not Superman.

Also, if that is a rule, like I said, they should ban Superman. The mods are just as human as we are, they wank the F out or Superman. This is quite obvious. If they made that little piece you posted facts, it is pointless even discussing this character.

It's literally part of the official tiers thread.

And the flash part was to show the LEVELS are what are being discussed. Power LEVELS.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And my point is Superman is the same character and if we want to use his pre crisis stuff we can use per mods. Also this debate isnt about A VS B, Its about your double standard. Same words to you: If you dont understand what Im saying then this debate is over

And this is where you're comprehension fails again. I used old scans because Surfer is more powerful RIGHT NOW than he was back then. I didn't use Pre Crisis Superman scans for current Supes because Current Supes is WEAKER than Pre Crisis Supes. What does this mean? Surfer scans is relevant and Precrisis scans are irrelevant since current Supes can't replicate the fts. Again, 1+1=2.

Where did the mods make a rule on Precrisis fts = current Supes? They have a lot of work on the forum and they need some major modifications to the entire forum and characters if Pre Crisis showings are relevant again. I wish them the best of luck.

Originally posted by carver9
And this is where you're comprehension fails again. I used old scans because Surfer is more powerful RIGHT NOW than he was back then. I didn't use Pre Crisis Superman scans for current Supes because Current Supes is WEAKER than Pre Crisis Supes. What does this mean? Surfer scans is relevant and Precrisis scans are irrelevant since current Supes can't replicate the fts. Again, 1+1=2.

Where did the mods make a rule on Precrisis fts = current Supes? They have a lot of work on the forum and they need some major modifications to the entire forum and characters if Pre Crisis showings are relevant again. I wish them the best of luck.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Your analogy is terrible. Firstly, What Superman did here isnt when he was amped. Secondly, pre-crisis and post-crisis and post-flashpoint are the same character thanks to Death Metal. And DC havent given any official explicit proofs that current Superman is weaker than his previous self
So its more like the thread purpose is you trying to wank some of your characters while knowing if we use high end feats for Superman then he will beat the characters that you want to wank
So firstly, You need to give us that current Superman gets official depowered proofs. 1=1
Originally posted by Galan007
Same.

If indeed all character showings(in DC's history) become usable after this event, people will just have to specify which 'version' of the characters they're intending to use in the OP. For example: "post-Crisis" Superman, "DCnU" Superman, "Rebirth" Superman, etc.

...Unless they want all of Superman's showings(across all eras) to be usable. In which case it would default to "current" Superman .


Going to be a royal pain in the ass.
Current Superman=All era showings of Superman

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So firstly, You need to give us that current Superman gets official depowered proofs. 1=1

Current Superman=All era showings of Superman

I can easily post scans proving Superman doesn't equal Pre Crisis Superman.

Thats not a ruling. That's a mod making a statement.

Originally posted by -Pr-
https://i.imgur.com/kSzKjon.gif

**** no.

Originally posted by carver9
I can easily post scans proving Superman doesn't equal Pre Crisis Superman.

Thats not a ruling. That's a mod making a statement.
And I can post scans to prove the DC have officially canonized all eras of DC
A statement about this topic made by a mod gives my opinions some merit, no?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And I can post scans to prove the DC have officially canonized all era of DC
A statement about this topic made by a mod gives my opinions some merit, no?

You'll post stuff from an era where characters were tremendously more powerful than their current self. Go right ahead but again, there's no merit that Superman can replicate ANY of those showings recently. You'll basically be posting scans from another character. Then, like I said before, post Crisis scans would then be Canon as well and can not be discredited. It's a mess upon mess because even though You'll post Pre Crisis scans, I can counter it with things that happened after Pre Crisis, within the post Crisis era, then I can counter that with Rebirth showings. Then I can provide scans of Zaar being>>>>>>Pre Crisis Superman since he beat, well, Superman. Then I can post scans of current Zod being=to Pre Crisis Superman but while amped by 2 sun's, being weaker than Lantern.

It's not a rule. Post that all you want. It's not in the ruling.

Originally posted by carver9
I can easily post scans proving Superman doesn't equal Pre Crisis Superman.

Thats not a ruling. That's a mod making a statement.

There's also Galan still

Originally posted by carver9
You'll post stuff from an era where characters were tremendously more powerful than their current self. Go right ahead but again, there's no merit that Superman can replicate ANY of those showings recently. You'll basically be posting scans from another character. Then, like I said before, post Crisis scans would then be Canon as well and can not be discredited. It's a mess upon mess because even though You'll post Pre Crisis scans, I can counter it with things that happened after Pre Crisis, within the post Crisis era, then I can counter that with Rebirth showings. Then I can provide scans of Zaar being>>>>>>Pre Crisis Superman since he beat, well, Superman. Then I can post scans of current Zod being=to Pre Crisis Superman but while amped by 2 sun's, being weaker than Lantern.

It's not a rule. Post that all you want. It's not in the ruling.
Still dodging the point I see. Scaling all you want, I dont care. My whole point is you using a showing that surfer performed decades ago while not allowing other using old showings for Superman. And the reason you gave is YOU THINK
But there are
1 A mod thinks we can use it if we want. And another mod thinks precrisis is canon
2 DC canonized all eras of DC, So precrisis Superman and postcrisis Superman are the same character
3 Also DS gave a ruling(Full Capacity), Which you seem to have problem with

Edit: So according to galan, everything in DC's published history is now canon
Originally posted by Galan007
I am currently of the opinion that everything in DC's published history is now canon and therefore up for grabs -- most material seems to paint that picture.

But yeah, if you don't want the 'composite canon' thing to be used, just specify a particular version of the character in the OP.

Originally posted by carver9
And this is where you're comprehension fails again. I used old scans because Surfer is more powerful RIGHT NOW than he was back then. I didn't use Pre Crisis Superman scans for current Supes because Current Supes is WEAKER than Pre Crisis Supes. What does this mean? Surfer scans is relevant and Precrisis scans are irrelevant since current Supes can't replicate the fts. Again, 1+1=2.

Where did the mods make a rule on Precrisis fts = current Supes? They have a lot of work on the forum and they need some major modifications to the entire forum and characters if Pre Crisis showings are relevant again. I wish them the best of luck.

Originally posted by Galan007
I am currently of the opinion that everything in DC's published history is now canon and therefore up for grabs -- most material seems to paint that picture.

But yeah, if you don't want the 'composite canon' thing to be used, just specify a particular version of the character in the OP.

Originally posted by carver9


It's not a rule. Post that all you want. It's not in the ruling.

Patience, little carve.

Funny thing is, I even gave you a chance to edit and a chance to specify which version was being used, on page two of this thread:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why wouldn't Sentry attack Magician? Surfer? Remember, they all know each other's powers, why wouldn't a reality warper (Sentry) see another reality warper (Magician) as a threat?

I don't care about recently. It's all canon. You don't like it, as OP you can handicap Superman as you want, it's your thread.

But thanks for providing the drive to get a ruling.

Originally posted by carver9

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Still dodging the point I see. Scaling all you want, I dont care. My whole point is you using a showing that surfer performed decades ago while not allowing other using old showings for Superman. And the reason you gave is YOU THINK
But there are
1 A mod thinks we can use it if we want. And another mod thinks precrisis is canon
2 DC canonized all eras of DC, So precrisis Superman and postcrisis Superman are the same character
3 Also DS gave a ruling(Full Capacity), Which you seem to have problem with

Edit: So according to galan, everything in DC's published history is now canon

I grabbed me a glass of wine. I'm patiently popping up a chair waiting for your miracle.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I underlined the important part for you. Flash has that level of speed.

Superman has that level of speed. Level of strength etc.

As for the second post, that rule is indeed in play. Guess you missed it

Doesn't matter since even PreCrisis Superman said 4 1/4 light years would take him a while to achieve even though people like Surfer do things like this in his sleep...

https://m.imgur.com/lCVldLq

Please stop drinking.
Although is Goober online?

How would I know if Goober is online?

I just assumed, because there was no way you'd be able to find that out on your own

Although saying that, theres no way he'd be that silly to argue what you're arguing.

Full Capacity, my friend.