Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Wolverine is at his best, where does he stop? He's fully rested after each fight. No bfr and no destroying the environment.

1. Solomon Grundy
2. Metallo
3. Kalibak
4. Equus
5. Mongul

Featureless environment

1. Logan takes him out with his pinkie.

2. Same as above.

3. Same as above.

4. Logan needs a single snikt.

5. Junior flees from the battlefield as soon as the round starts.

Wolverine could be at his worst and he'd still clear.

Don't do that

1. Solomon Grundy - Wolverine gets KO'd
2. Metallo - Could go either way, I'd favor Metallo
3. Kalibak - Could go either way
4. Equus - Can't say, don't know enough about Equus
5. Mongul - Wolverine gets KO'd

Originally posted by Robtard
1. Solomon Grundy - Wolverine gets KO'd

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/92/37/a4/9237a4ac3bafff2444c0832d4c0ceb84.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/a6/c9/5ba6c9caa77aa0e514e27933cfb07dba.jpg

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/2/27470/1117051-batvsgrundy_dv2.jpg

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/2/27470/1117052-batvsgrundy_sb.jpg

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/1/18519/714187-jsaclassified035_01_1_.jpg

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/1/18519/714188-jsaclassified035_02_1_.jpg

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/1/18519/714189-jsaclassified035_03_1_.jpg

Grundy's power level can very greatly depending on the incarnation, sometimes so low a non-super can easily handle him, sometimes so powerful he can give Superman a match.

If we're going with a weaker version, sure, Logan walks through him without breaking a sweat.

Same Grundy who got buttraped by Bats (and Bane later in that run), was going toe to toe with Gotham and Gotham Girl and casually destroyed giant monuments, lol.

So much for that poor excuse. Forum myth.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Same Grundy who got buttraped by Bats (and Bane later in that run), was going toe to toe with Gotham and Gotham Girl and casually destroyed giant monuments, lol.

So much for that poor excuse. Forum myth.

No it's not. Grundy's power varies wildly based on his appearences.

https://tinyurl.com/23my4576

Originally posted by -Pr-
No it's not. Grundy's power varies wildly based on his appearences.

On panel proof, please. Not your fan fiction.

His mindset / personality does.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wolverine could be at his worst and he'd still clear.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't do that

OK.

Originally posted by carver9
Wolverine is at his best, where does he stop? He's fully rested after each fight. No bfr and no destroying the environment.

1. Solomon Grundy
2. Metallo
3. Kalibak
4. Equus
5. Mongul

Featureless environment

Grundy:
https://imgur.com/a/sCdFtrY
https://imgur.com/a/yi8FX
https://imgur.com/a/Qm8WQ
https://imgur.com/a/oI4kz

Metallo:
https://imgur.com/a/ofKja

Kalibak:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=520110&pagenumber=27


Equus:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11111/111114806/3771852-0946392493-17066.jpg
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11111/111114806/3771853-0361198370-17066.jpg

Mongul:
https://imgur.com/a/YJuT5

There you go.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Same Grundy who got buttraped by Bats (and Bane later in that run), was going toe to toe with Gotham and Gotham Girl and casually destroyed giant monuments, lol.

So much for that poor excuse. Forum myth.


Grundy's power-level fluctuating after he reincarnates is not something strange, it's part of the character.

https://i.imgur.com/9qYU8jh.png


So yeah, he could be weak enough to be taken out by a street-level or powerful enough to trade blows with Superman. Depending on the incarnation.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
On panel proof, please. Not your fan fiction.

His mindset / personality does.

For shame.

https://i.postimg.cc/SxJstsF0/RCO006-1608662614.jpg

Full page:
https://i.postimg.cc/c4ZmyTrj/RCO006-1608662614-1.jpg

'This one is sadly a bomb'.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
For shame.

https://i.postimg.cc/SxJstsF0/RCO006-1608662614.jpg

Nothing in that panel indicates actual power level fluctuation, that's just typical kmc fanboy speculations at work.

He may become more effective if he's reborn as ruthless and smart, sure --- but he won't suddenly get +10 to all stats or anything like that.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
On panel proof, please. Not your fan fiction.

His mindset / personality does.

I literally already told you this:

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yeah, but that's not what you said. You said "only Clark".

Emphasis on "only".

Grundy has held his own if not outright beaten most of the JSA, and at least half the JLA. He's even gone up against the likes of various Flashes and Marvels. Him doing well against Superman isn't a low feat for anyone.

And using Batman is a measuring stick is stupid. You know this.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Nothing in that panel indicates actual power level fluctuation, that's just typical kmc fanboy speculations at work.

He may become more effective if he's reborn as ruthless and smart, sure --- but he won't suddenly get +10 to all stats or anything like that.

The next panel (which I posted in my edit) shows that Grundy indeed has actual power fluctuation. THAT Grundy was a bomb that could explode. He literally has a different powerset, that no other Grundy shows.

https://i.postimg.cc/c4ZmyTrj/RCO006-1608662614-1.jpg

......................

Bonus Kalibak scan:
https://i.postimg.cc/FRVYjbNd/RCO035-1572439079-1.jpg

A single panel, not even worthy of Batman's time

It's not just Batman.

It's Wild Cat, Green Arrow, Bane, Killer Croc (who lost, but still did much better than against sane Harvey) and others.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The next panel (which I posted in my edit) shows that Grundy indeed has actual power fluctuation. THAT Grundy was a bomb that could explode. He literally has a different powerset, that no other Grundy shows.

https://i.postimg.cc/c4ZmyTrj/RCO006-1608662614-1.jpg

......................

Bonus Kalibak scan:
https://i.postimg.cc/FRVYjbNd/RCO035-1572439079-1.jpg

A single panel, not even worthy of Batman's time

End of page bump

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Nothing in that panel indicates actual power level fluctuation, that's just typical kmc fanboy speculations at work.

He may become more effective if he's reborn as ruthless and smart, sure --- but he won't suddenly get +10 to all stats or anything like that.


"An infinite amount of possible combinations", the word infinite pretty much tells you.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's not just Batman.

It's Wild Cat, Green Arrow, Bane, Killer Croc (who lost, but still did much better than against sane Harvey) and others.

You still used Batman though. And even if you want to ignore that, your examples just prove my point even more.

This is a guy that can be choked out by Green Arrow (when he isn't even supposed to be able to breathe), but in another version can kick the shit out of Captain Marvel and Alan Scott. And I don't just mean in the 50s and 60s either. He was doing this shit post-crisis. How do you explain that?

@DS

That bomb thing is clearly an outlier, but it's certainly interesting - would need to read that book.

Originally posted by Robtard
"An infinite amount of possible combinations", the word infinite pretty much tells you.

We also have his power levels fluctuating wildly across comics, cartons and films since 1944.

See? Exactly.

They indeed are inconsistent all the damn time - even if it's the same specific incarnation, same writer, same run... we can easily spot inconsistencies and power fluctuations.

Exactly why I don't believe we should treat Grundy any different.

If he casually one-shots a giant statue (which wasn't even his main target), then I feel it's safe to say he operated at normal Grundy strong-brick levels.

Which still means shit in his case.

While power fluctuations are common with most every character depending on writer, plot and comic "age", Solomon Grundy is kinda specifically noted that he is reborn differently each time he dies and comes back, which includes his power levels.

As noted, using Batman as a measure is silly, he's one of the most, if not they most boosted characters, who routinely wins fights he should not. Do you really think a human can single-arm press 600+ pounds over their head with casual difficulty?

Batman/Superman #15.

I also posted scans of Bats oneshotting Metallo, btw. You guys really should pay more attention to Abstract Batman

Originally posted by Robtard
which includes his power levels.

See, this is what I have a problem with.

When has it been noted that he becomes stronger, faster, more durable with different incarnations?

Writers from both DC and Marvel love to state things like that on panel, so often it becomes annoying.

Grundy has existed for 77 years and you still have nothing concrete, guys.

Go help Pr with his Solomon novel, I'm sure carver will buy it.

Is it a romance novel?

Like you need to ask.

Pr is a delicate soul, our most beautiful flower that we all need to water from time to time.

Alright, I hope we can at least agree that Solomon Grundy would fist CDTM's ass and CDTM would love it.

There was never any doubt about it

Perhaps after enough fisting sessions, he could tell us if there is any difference between Grundy incarnations.

Only one Wolvie has a chance is Equus.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Only one Wolvie has a chance is Equus.

Bats one-shotted Metallo with no prep.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
There was never any doubt about it

Perhaps after enough fisting sessions, he could tell us if there is any difference between Grundy incarnations.


Glad we sorted that out as the weekend approaches

Alright, I usually don't participate in my threads but I think this is worth it. Does any of these people have speed fts comparable to Wolverines. We have on panel evidence that Wolverine can withstand hits from each of these people. It should be pretty obvious that Wolverine claws can pierce these people based off fts. They've never dealt with anything like him. What's stopping Wolverine from just shredding them to pieces before they even pull off a swing?

Also this, please read what is said here...

https://ibb.co/D9NWSpc
https://ibb.co/kM01pxd
https://ibb.co/Hgx6Sb9
https://ibb.co/CtG7XVV

While they've never fought a Wolverine clone, they've all** fought someone much, much, much powerful, Superman, and held their own. But you also think Superman loses to most.

**Excluding Equus here, who I don't know much about

Originally posted by Robtard
While they've never fought a Wolverine clone, they've all** fought someone much, much, much powerful, Superman, and held their own. But you also think Superman loses to most.

**Excluding Equus here, who I don't know much about

Superman fist does not equal adamantium claws. Mongul, Kalibak, etc... weathering blows from Superman does not mean they can take a head shot from Wolverine. Anyone thinking that is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Robtard
While they've never fought a Wolverine clone, they've all** fought someone much, much, much powerful, Superman, and held their own. But you also think Superman loses to most.

**Excluding Equus here, who I don't know much about

Problem with Supes is that he's such a nice guy, he allows everyone to get their licks in.

That includes losers and z-listers. And even Aquaman

Originally posted by carver9
Superman fist does not equal adamantium claws. Mongul, Kalibak, etc... weathering blows from Superman does not mean they can take a head shot from Wolverine. Anyone thinking that is ridiculous.

See what I mean about you constantly underselling Superman.

Superman's strength/fist >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolverine's strength/claws

Logan's strength doesn't play a factor.

And if it does, it's exactly enough to let the claws slice through anything, as stated on panel.

"Teh Clause" f*cked up Gladiator, Hulk, Elder Gods, Count Nefaria, IG Thanos and pretty much every other "invulnerable" hero/villain.

Originally posted by Robtard
See what I mean about you constantly underselling Superman.

Superman's strength/fist >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolverine's strength/claws

Ok, let's rephrase that so you'll understand better. Abomination weathering blows from Hulk does not mean he can withstand Wolverine claws. Thanos weathering hits from Thor does not mean he can withstand Wolverine claws. Beta Ray Bill weathering blows from Surfer doesn't mean he withstand Wolverine claws. Hulk weathering blows from Hercules doesn't mean he will withstand Wolverine claws. Wonder Woman weather blows from Black Adam doesn't mean she will withstand Logan claws. Do I need to keep going? I need proof that they can withstand Wolverine stabbing them in the face.

Wolverine, like Batman, is brokenly OP. Any comic writer would have him cut any one of these opponents. Whether he'd beat them is another story, sure, but cutting/stabbing? It's almost a certainty.

Originally posted by Robtard
1. Solomon Grundy - Wolverine gets KO'd
2. Metallo - Could go either way, I'd favor Metallo
3. Kalibak - Could go either way
4. Equus - Can't say, don't know enough about Equus
5. Mongul - Wolverine gets KO'd

Originally posted by lawest9


Based on

Mongul has blasts and great damage soak. Sure Logan can cut him but not to the point where the first few cuts are going to stop him. Mongul can literally eat a slash in order to knock Logan for a loop (or blast him). Plus Mongul does possess superhuman speed and reflexes (not to Superman's level but to a respectable degree).

Logan should beat Grundy though. Not sure about the others though.

If these guys hold Logan face down.... there's literally nothing he can do, lol.

https://i.ibb.co/J5ckBD3/met.png

Originally posted by carver9
Also this, please read what is said here...

https://ibb.co/D9NWSpc
https://ibb.co/kM01pxd
https://ibb.co/Hgx6Sb9
https://ibb.co/CtG7XVV

what does the next page say?

And yet, whenever they fight, every time they fight....what happens?

Answer: he forgets all of that. Cyke thinks its his weakness, Chuck says its his strength.

But my point is, your scans are fricking useless because the whole point of that scene is saying Wolverine ignores all of that strategy stuff, to go berserk lmao.

Anyway....

https://i.postimg.cc/4xmkVpp8/RCO035-1572439079-1.jpg

Batman is like, 6ft 2. Kalibak dwarfs him - Logan would be the size of his hand, lol. What's stopping Kalibak from giving him the WWH treatment? I mean, I guess none of you have ever tried picking a cat up, lol. If it has claws, all Kalibak needs to do is....pick him up facing away from him.

Mind you, Grundy (some incarnations, phuck you Stilt) may be too stupid for that, so I can see Logan chopping him up. He can take Metallo, depending on the versions - he could repair himself with ANY metal that was present (so....leeching the adamantium from Logan, for example). I assume Carver wants Logan to win, so will cheerfully ignore this version?

This ignores the PC showings, btw, which the OP has forgotten (lol!)

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
what does the next page say?

And yet, whenever they fight, every time they fight....what happens?

Answer: he forgets all of that. Cyke thinks its his weakness, Chuck says its his strength.

But my point is, your scans are fricking useless because the whole point of that scene is saying Wolverine ignores all of that strategy stuff, to go berserk lmao.



"Reaches the peak of his power when he surrenders to his rage".

Proper Berserker Rage doesn't rule out strategy. Not in Wolverine's case.

https://i.ibb.co/tCRxr8Q/sophisticated.jpg

Srank spent a whole decade reminding people of that little fact.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Mind you, Grundy (some incarnations, phuck you Stilt) may be too stupid for that

Wait.

Are you really certain Kalibak is that much smarter than Grundy?

To quote Quin-Gon Jinn, the ability to speak does not make him intelligent.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
"Reaches the peak of his power when he surrenders to his rage".

Proper Berserker Rage doesn't rule out strategy. Not in Wolverine's case.

Srank spent a whole decade reminding people of that little fact.

Agreed, but not in that scene Carver is using.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wait.

Are you really certain Kalibak is that much smarter than Grundy?

To quote Quin-Gon Jinn, the ability to speak does not make him intelligent.

He IS capable of it:
https://i.imgur.com/sdUsvmG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GGRVHHg.jpg

He can use tactics when needed.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://i.ibb.co/J5ckBD3/met.png

Posted on like page 1, by me, lmao.

But yeah, it depends on the version of Metallo here.
https://i.imgur.com/XCbbKxJ.jpeg

That was after Neron got his hands on him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Agreed, but not in that scene Carver is using.

Scene literally ends with Xavier laughing at Cyke's comments and saying he doesn't understand shit, so I'd say it's a pretty good example.

Also, wow, that Kalibak scan is on par with Croc outsmarting Bane

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Scene literally ends with Xavier laughing at Cyke's comments and saying he doesn't understand shit, so I'd say it's a pretty good example.

Also, wow, that Kalibak scan is on par with Croc outsmarting Bane

Lol, I'm not saying he's Midnighter or anything, but that he's smarter than Grundy (admittedly a fricking low bar, lmao).

I read that X-Men scene as Prof saying him giving into the berserker rage, whilst completely different to what Cyke had earlier claimed (the tracking, the hearing, the strategy etc) is what makes him so deadly. He's not a tactician like Cyke, but his effectiveness doesn't rely on tactics/ strat, so Cyke shouldn't try and pigeonhole him.

He's not like any of them.

That's what makes Cyke's assessment so worthless, in Xavier's opinion.

Rules just don't apply to him.

Of course, it can be interpreted differently and in the end, it's a short scene and we don't even know the final outcome. But it should be said that Xavier studied Wolverine a lot, so nice of carver to post what was implied to be another time Hulk got his ass beat by him

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol, I'm not saying he's Midnighter or anything, but that he's smarter than Grundy (admittedly a fricking low bar, lmao).

Yeah, I get what you mean.

While Kalibak's size does vary, the right way of grabbing Wolverine was used in the past by some bricks.

Most of the time, they can't do it right and pay the price for that, though.

Succeeding is tough, if we take into account Logan's speed and both his animal nature (as noted by She-Hulk) and general fighting skill or even escape artistry.

Yeah. It must be noted though, that Kalibak is fast himself. I know Carver hates it, but he DOES fight Superman (hell, the thread is called 'Superman's Rogues') and Superman DOES have superspeed. Against Max Mercury, who whilst not THE best speedster, is still a legit speedster:

https://i.imgur.com/GdbsKe5.jpeg

And Kalibak himself is pretty ferocious as well. And we haven't even started on his Beta Club...

I enjoyed Phil's respect thread.

Kalibak is Darkseid's son... logically, he should be one big badass...

In reality, he spends his time fighting (and losing to) talking apes

Talking apes - or even apes in general - are abstract level in either company.

Google "travis chimpanzee" to see what they can do when amped on xanax.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Google "travis chimpanzee" to see what they can do when amped on xanax.



Just be warned, Charla Nash's pics are pretty graphic.

Thank you, Stilt.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t676415.html

So no speed fts proving the can tag Wolverine? Gotcha. Just because you're a Superman villain doesn't mean you get his speed fts. This isn't how it works.

Originally posted by carver9
So no speed fts proving the can tag Wolverine? Gotcha. Just because you're a Superman villain doesn't mean you get his speed fts. This isn't how it works.

WWH tagged him just fine, same WWH that Beast (whilst carrying someone) was literally dancing around.

I showed Kalibak tagging Max Mercury, a legit speedster, whilst specifically mentioning his speed. This isn't like say, Batman or Deathstroke tagging a speedster - Kalibak specifically says a speedster's speed is not impressive to him, then tags him.

Moreover, you didn't even clarify which versions of everyone this is - Metallo is able to create bodies out of whatever metal he touches.

Imagine if he gets touched by adamantium

This is obviously the latest versions of everyone. Also, WWH isn't the only being Wolverine have fought and I disagree with you about Beast and Hulk but this isn't a Hulk thread. Anyways, Kalibak gets sliced up and if we want to use Hulk fighting speedster to downplay Wolverine, Hulk has tagged Gladiator, Hyperion, Quick Silver, etc... just fine. See what I did there?

Originally posted by carver9
This is obviously the latest versions of everyone. Also, WWH isn't the only being Wolverine have fought and I disagree with you about Beast and Hulk but this isn't a Hulk thread. Anyways, Kalibak gets sliced up and if we want to use Hulk fighting speedster to downplay Wolverine, Hulk has tagged Gladiator, Hyperion, Quick Silver, etc... just fine. See what I did there?

But I am specifically using WWH, because he did what any brick should do, which is just hold Logan and keep punching him.

Also, WWH is > other Hulk versions (barring WBH), based on writer intent and statements and story See what I did there?

But OK. You say Kalibak gets sliced up - I literally just showed him fighting a legit speedster, the guy who taught Wally West how to use the Speed Force etc etc, and specifically commenting on his speed - yet you want to ignore it? Why? you ask for speed feats, I show them, and you just handwave it away.....

But yes. Latest version of Metallo can morph with metal. GG.

You posted a scan of Kalibak commenting on speed but still being unable to do anything against the person that is speeding around him. Wolverine has actually kept up with speedsters. Ya know, hit them in the face...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-adab650a9fa5a0c6a1f4f0940818d5f2

He didn't boast about it, he's done it. He also shanked Northstar.

Originally posted by carver9
You posted a scan of Kalibak commenting on speed but still being unable to do anything against the person that is speeding around him. Wolverine has actually kept up with speedsters. Ya know, hit them in the face...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-adab650a9fa5a0c6a1f4f0940818d5f2

He didn't boast about it, he's done it. He also shanked Northstar.

Sorry, I thought you were familiar with the scan.

Next panel has him taking Max Mercury out by throwing an I-beam hard enough to hit him as Max attempts to run from him. Max wasn't at full power, though.

Your scan is pretty poop, though. It SPECIFICALLY spells out that Wolverine wasn't fast enough (even shows Wolverine unable to tag him) - Logan only hit Speed Demon because he PREDICTED where he was going to be, lmao.

Whereas Kalibak - just straight up hit Max.

My point is, he's not going fist cuff with a Flash. He's simply not fast enough. We are talking about the same guy that had a hard time hitting Batman. Yes, Bats was amped but not Flash amped.

Originally posted by carver9
My point is, he's not going fist cuff with a Flash. He's simply not fast enough. We are talking about the same guy that had a hard time hitting Batman. Yes, Bats was amped but not Flash amped.

When? How was Batman amped? And I thought we weren't using Batman you've certainly quoted Pr at me enough!!

How was Batman amped, pray tell? In the Hellbat armour that Flash put the Speed Force into?

Yes, the Hellbat armor that doesn't have any showings of being on Flash level of speed. I see thus is going to be a circular argument, so disregard I mentioned that version of Bats. I just shows that, you posting a scan of a character that have Kalibak against someone who showed Flash how to use the speed for is irrelevant.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, the Hellbat armor that doesn't have any showings of being on Flash level of speed. I see thus is going to be a circular argument, so disregard I mentioned that version of Bats. I just shows that, you posting a scan of a character that have Kalibak against someone who showed Flash how to use the speed for is irrelevant.

Ah yes, this Hellbat suit:

https://i.imgur.com/5fNuD5y.jpeg

That Flash EXPLICITLY contributed to. What did he contribute, Carv, if not his speed?

I am saying that Max Mercury is one of the top speedsters around. Certainly more than Speed Demon. Speed Demon, a guy who was EXPLICITLY faster than Wolverine, who needed to rely on predicting where he was because - you guessed it - he wasn't fast enough.

See the difference between that and Kalibak straight up explicitly laughing at Max's speed, before he hits him? World of difference in the two showings.

All you did was handwave it away, instead of actually debating it.

https://ibb.co/NFN7sw2
https://ibb.co/WfCVkYX
https://ibb.co/C23h1Bw
https://ibb.co/G5hvqbB
https://ibb.co/6HyHmW9
https://ibb.co/0rXz2Vm

Wolverine still had to be fast enough to tag speed demon, though. No matter the prediction. I mentioned we can wave away the Hellbat comment. What's the issue number for the Kalibak vs speedster showing.

Originally posted by carver9
Wolverine still had to be fast enough to tag speed demon, though. No matter the prediction. I mentioned we can wave away the Hellbat comment. What's the issue number for the Kalibak vs speedster showing.

Lol wave away?

How about this comment?
Originally posted by carver9
You using Batman period, like Pr said is basically a dumbass move.

My point was that Kalibak has speed. You not liking it is...moot. Impulse #53 - Max is injured, but still speedster fast (as you will see).

Really? It's bad enough with all the lowballing silliness, but you have to shit on Cyclops too, people? Really?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Really? It's bad enough with all the lowballing silliness, but you have to shit on Cyclops too, people? Really?

Cyclops is a slacker who hasn't done his homework...

... wait, worse - he didn't even pay attention in class.

He was one of the X-Men present when Forge and Xavier were analyzing Logan's combat prowess and berserker rage.

But I guess one could argue that new untold tale from Marvel v1 #5 could be taking place before Wolverine v2 #50, prior to his memory blocks removal.

Would make perfect sense, then. Considering how he's wearing the brown-and-tan outfit.

But even then, Cyke should remember how Wolverine's "nerfed" berserker rage allowed him to beat the N'Garai ruler, who was beating their whole team...

A fodder N'Garai grunt has sodomized the Hulk and wrecked the X-Mansion (the Danger Room in particular).

So yeah, Scott doesn't know what he's talking about. Exams failed.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cyclops is a slacker who hasn't done his homework...

... wait, worse - he didn't even pay attention in class.

He was one of the X-Men present when Forge and Xavier were analyzing Logan's combat prowess and berserker rage.

But I guess one could argue that new untold tale from Marvel v1 #5 could be taking place before Wolverine v2 #50, prior to his memory blocks removal.

Would make perfect sense, then. Considering how he's wearing the brown-and-tan outfit.

But even then, Cyke should remember how Wolverine's "nerfed" berserker rage allowed him to beat the N'Garai ruler, who was beating their whole team...

A fodder N'Garai grunt has sodomized the Hulk and wrecked the X-Mansion (the Danger Room in particular).

So yeah, Scott doesn't know what he's talking about. Exams failed.

And people say the writing of X-Men comics hasn't gotten worse.

Originally posted by -Pr-
And people say the writing of X-Men comics hasn't gotten worse.

...

That's all the classic stuff, Pr.

Makes sense for Xavier to be more well-versed on the subject of Wolverine, as he's been secretly studying how to kill him and other X-Men, if it ever came to that.

Xavier Protocols.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
...

That's all the classic stuff, Pr.

Makes sense for Xavier to be more well-versed on the subject of Wolverine, as he's been secretly studying how to kill him and other X-Men, if it ever came to that.

Xavier Protocols.

I got confused then, as I didn't recognise the comic that was posted, I just assumed it was a newer one. My bad.

I don't mind Xavier knowing more than Cyclops. My issue is with making Cyclops look bad when part of the point of the character is that he's this guy that studies mutant powers every day.

The comic posted WAS a new comic. Well, new ish.....Feb 2020?

Originally posted by -Pr-
I got confused then, as I didn't recognise the comic that was posted, I just assumed it was a newer one. My bad.

I don't mind Xavier knowing more than Cyclops. My issue is with making Cyclops look bad when part of the point of the character is that he's this guy that studies mutant powers every day.

Marvel v1 #5 is the only new comic, yes, but it's a short scene lasting just seven pages. Not enough material in it to say that the x-writing has gotten worse. Bendis' run is a far better example.

Cyclops and Logan can't agree on anything, from the way they call their battlesuits to their battle approach.

Thought you targeted the rest of my post with that comment durclops

True about Cyclops, but we should consider that various telepaths, martial artists... telepathic martial artists... or even writers themselves tend to be clueless about the *true* berserker rage Logan is capable of.

It's not your standard battle fury ability, though it still comes at a cost of increased bloodlust and uses up stamina faster.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Marvel v1 #5 is the only new comic, yes, but it's a short scene lasting just seven pages. Not enough material in it to say that the x-writing has gotten worse. Bendis' run is a far better example.

Cyclops and Logan can't agree on anything, from the way they call their battlesuits to their battle approach.

Thought you targeted the rest of my post with that comment durclops

True about Cyclops, but we should consider that various telepaths, martial artists... telepathic martial artists... or even writers themselves tend to be clueless about the *true* berserker rage Logan is capable of.

It's not your standard battle fury ability, though it still comes at a cost of increased bloodlust and uses up stamina faster.

Hey, I wasn't limiting it to one example. They've been dropping the ball. All of the balls. For years now.

I digged the scene a lot, personally.

Cyke represents the writers who are very skeptical about the rage benefits. Such as Guggenheim.

Xavier represents the ones who believe it makes Wolvie more than a god. Claremont and Hama.

Good stuff, really good.

He's facing Hulk one on one and doing far better than most people. Wolverine is beyond a god. We've seen what Hulk does to God.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I digged the scene a lot, personally.

Cyke represents the writers who are very skeptical about the rage benefits. Such as Guggenheim.

Xavier represents the ones who believe it makes Wolvie more than a god. Claremont and Hama.

Good stuff, really good.

**** you.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
WWH tagged him just fine, same WWH that Beast (whilst carrying someone) was literally dancing around.

I showed Kalibak tagging Max Mercury, a legit speedster, whilst specifically mentioning his speed. This isn't like say, Batman or Deathstroke tagging a speedster - Kalibak specifically says a speedster's speed is not impressive to him, then tags him.

Moreover, you didn't even clarify which versions of everyone this is - Metallo is able to create bodies out of whatever metal he touches.

Imagine if he gets touched by adamantium

Just want to post this... Hulk was dodging and catching super sonic missles...

https://ibb.co/51HYXjs
https://ibb.co/pj5V9v0
https://ibb.co/stXXMzX

Then this...

https://ibb.co/sgRxnf9

So WWH was written weakly? I see.

I dont think that is how it works, lol.

Well Beast was dancing around WWH, despite WWH trying to catch him, despite him carrying Elixir on his back, lol.

So if Hulk, normal Hulk, can catch supersonic missiles, surely an amped Hulk can catch supersonic missiles too (at least)??

So if Beast can avoid him, this must mean Beast is hypersonic, is that how this works?

Beast also got tagged multiple times in that mini, keep it in mind.

Sure, Hank loves his acrobatics and bouncing shtick... hell, sometimes he even mimics Spider-Man's wall-crawling abilities (it's not exactly the same, as he damages the walls in the process, but still)... but in the end, he always gets his ass raped.

Hulk was simply holding back. He doesn't need to go all out against Beast .

It's like me saying Aquaman is faster than Superman.

https://comicnewbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/aquaman-and-mera-vs-superman-rebirth-4.png

It was stated on panel that Hulk was holding back throughout WWH, especially against the almighty Beast, the character you feel Hulk should use everything in his disposal against.

@Stilt:Indeed.

My point is that WWH and Beast and X-23 and Logan were all in the same ballpark in terms of speed.

Unless we want to argue that all of them were hypersonic, lmao.

@Csrver: he was trying to catch Beast. And failed.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Beast also got tagged multiple times in that mini, keep it in mind.

Sure, Hank loves his acrobatics and bouncing shtick... hell, sometimes he even mimics Spider-Man's wall-crawling abilities (it's not exactly the same, as he damages the walls in the process, but still)... but in the end, he always gets his ass raped.

Yep, Hulk one punch koed him. Dark simply believes Hulk used every ounce of his speed against Beast. That is his argument. I even mentioned Hulk tagging X23 and Wolverine and he mentioned Beast being faster than them. Naah, Hulk needed to grab X23 and Wolverine because they were the most threatening out of the entire group.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
@Stilt:Indeed.

My point is that WWH and Beast and X-23 and Logan were all in the same ballpark in terms of speed.

Unless we want to argue that all of them were hypersonic, lmao.

@Csrver: he was trying to catch Beast. And failed.

Aren't you the guy that tend to defend "at their best"? Why change now? Especially since WWH is an amped Hulk".

Originally posted by carver9
Aren't you the guy that tend to defend "at their best"? Why change now? Especially since WWH is an amped Hulk".

I am saying Savage has better feats than WWH.

You want to say Savage can catch supersonic missiles, I am not disputing that - notice I NEVER said he couldn't, lmao.

I am saying that if Savage can catch supersonic missiles, an amped Hulk should be able to catch hypersonic missiles.

And thus, anyone who can avoid WWH catching them must be insanely fast

Which part of this do you dispute?

I'm disputing you thinking Hulk going all out against Beast when he was able to tag him on multiple of occasions along with people that are faster, like Wolverine, Sentry, and X23. I think this is simple, WWH did not need to dispose all of his power on Beast.

So when he was trying to catch Beast, he wasn't trying?

Seems a bit strange considering he was trying to not waste time.

Or he's holding back and never intended on grabbing Beast. His goal was to get Xavier and he didn't do that either. His goal was to take out Tony and he didn't do that either. His goal was to take out Reed and he didn't do that either. Take out Strange, didnt do that. All of these beings were right in front of him with his entire intentions on taking each and every last one of them out but he didn't. All of the destruction he caused throughout WWH, not a single person died. Again, do you truly believe Hulk was trying to take out Beast? You do know Beast was koed in front of him, twice, right? Why not just, ya know, cripple him or kill him then? I'm trying to see where you are going with this. Did Beast fight Sentry version of WWH? Is this what you are implying?

Originally posted by carver9
Or he's holding back and never intended on grabbing Beast. His goal was to get Xavier and he didn't do that either. His goal was to take out Tony and he didn't do that either. His goal was to take out Reed and he didn't do that either. Take out Strange, didnt do that. All of these beings were right in front of him with his entire intentions on taking each and every last one of them out but he didn't. All of the destruction he caused throughout WWH, not a single person died. Again, do you truly believe Hulk was trying to take out Beast? You do know Beast was koed in front of him, twice, right? Why not just, ya know, cripple him or kill him then? I'm trying to see where you are going with this. Did Beast fight Sentry version of WWH? Is this what you are implying?

So he never intended to grab Beast....but tried to grab Beast?
https://i.postimg.cc/CL9GGYVD/RCO013-1466060805-1.jpg

Weird.

I am not saying WWH failed to take Beast out, or cripple or kill him, lmao.

I am saying WWH failed to CATCH Beast. Beast, who had a guy on his back, lol.

Where am I going with this? It is simple.

Beast, a Low? Meta tier guy, was able to casually dance around WWH, an amped Hulk, WHILST CARRYING A GUY ON HIS BACK.

WWHulk tried to catch him, and WWHulk failed. As clearly shown on my scan. Not saying WWH should have smashed his brains in, or torn his head off, or eaten him - I am merely saying WWH should have been able to catch him.

So there are two logical arguments:

1. Beast is just that fast. Savage Hulk can catch supersonic missiles (thanks!), an amped Hulk should be able to catch hypersonic missiles, Beast is >>hypersonic. Whilst carrying a guy on his back.

2. WWH was written poorly.

Which is it? It cannot be that WWH was holding back - he was clearly trying to finish things as quickly as possible (his words), and he was clearly trying to catch Beast.

I mean, there's a third argument, which is that Hulk simply isn't that fast, but you and I both don't want to go there

I just went back and looked at the fight, you're trolling. He had just got off the ground after the Xmen attacked him. Beast got his a** beat the entire time and easily at that...

First scan, Beast admits he along with the Xmen can't stop him...

https://ibb.co/pjXgT2m

Second scan, Hulk punch him with ease.

https://ibb.co/ZYbDXhM

3rd scan, they remove Hulk healing power...

https://ibb.co/Pr02HWt

Hulk gets dust attacked and still punches Beast with ease...

https://ibb.co/gztMpR7

Gets stabbed in the eye and blasted, punched and still proceed at punching Beast with his eyes closed...

https://ibb.co/vPzp2SF

Beast backed by a team and gets punched again...
https://ibb.co/09CfNxF

The ending results of Beast...

https://ibb.co/Tq5SqPf

Lol... you posted a scan of Hulk getting up off of the ground after the Xmen attack and reaching for Beast. As shown, Beast dancing as you say (hilarious) was NOTHING. Hulk tagged him easily, when he wanted to tag him. F****** hilarious.

Erm.... you are missing the entire point, lmao.

I am NOT, NOT, NOT ignoring all the other times Beast got tagged. It's like you have amnesia, lol.

I am saying that despite all of that, did Beast manage to dance around Hulk, yes or no?

BEFORE they removed his HF, btw. Sneaky sneaky Carver, missing that important point out lmao.

The scan you posted, Hulk was laying on the ground being attacked and gets up reaching for Beast. I need you to tell me what's wrong with this scene for you to be using it as evidence of Beast being faster than Hulk and yes, that was your argument the entire time...

https://ibb.co/ykvQtLN
https://ibb.co/4ZVL2nC

Don't switch it up.

I could see a berserk Wolverine clear this. He hits harder than a high herald if we consider the strength of his claws. Wolverine is a beast. These guys could win of course, but it probably wouldn't be by standing there trading assaults with him.

Lmao.

Hulk had already gotten up. And was trying to catch Beast.

Who jumped through his arms. Then got Elixir to take his HF away. Then jumped far away from him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao.

Hulk had already gotten up. And was trying to catch Beast.

Who jumped through his arms. Then got Elixir to take his HF away. Then jumped far away from him.

He bounced up and reaches for Beast after being attacked by an entire team. There are so many disadvantages to that showing. I'm not surprised you'll use it though. At the end of the day, Hulk pimp slapped Beast throughout that entire run, easily, without any difficulty at all. Glad that is over with. Now why do you think Wolverine loses here?

Originally posted by Stoic
I could see a berserk Wolverine clear this. He hits harder than a high herald if we consider the strength of his claws. Wolverine is a beast. These guys could win of course, but it probably wouldn't be by standing there trading assaults with him.

Even without adamantium, he was able to hurt Professor Hulk, who is one of the most durable Hulk incarnations.

With those super-senses and super-martial arts of his, anything is possible, if writers so desire.

Originally posted by carver9
He bounced up and reaches for Beast after being attacked by an entire team. There are so many disadvantages to that showing. I'm not surprised you'll use it though. At the end of the day, Hulk pimp slapped Beast throughout that entire run, easily, without any difficulty at all. Glad that is over with. Now why do you think Wolverine loses here?

An entire team of what, heralds? Abstracts?

You have:

Hellion (mid-meta) holding him down.
Mercury (low meta, lmao)
Dust (mid-meta)
X-23 (low meta lmao)
Rockslide (not even on the tier list)
Surge (not even on the tier list)

And apparently, this group of mid-low metas is enough to...what, weaken WW frickin Hulk? El oh El.

I mean, in the scan YOU posted, Hulk isn't even bothered by them - he's casually chatting to Beast telling him he's giving them two seconds to stop.

https://i.postimg.cc/zBM6ZBQ7/Screenshot-20210627-145427-Chrome.png

So which is it, Carv?

1. The Hellions (low/mid metas) were actually weakening/defeating Hulk?
2. They had no effect on Hulk, so he was still in tip-top shape?

I mean, I have showings of Savage Hulk casually healing through attacks way worse than what a team of low/mid metas can do, lmao. Yet you are seriously trying to argue WWH was somehow affected by them? To the extent Beast, BEAST, whilst carrying a guy, was able to dance around him?

OK.

It doesn't matter if they are effective or not, he is on the ground, surrounded being attacked and gets up with Beast coming at him. He wasn't in a position to defend himself (even if he needed to, which he didn't). Also, like I've said, even if he was standing up smiling during that scene, throughout that entire fight, Hulk had no troubles tagging Beast. Beast wasn't fast enough to dodge sh**. Hulk punched, slapped, thunder clapped Beast throughout that entire fight, without missing, without dodging, nothing. So no, Beast can't dance around Hulk because as shown, Hulk slapped him anytime he wanted to. Now I have a question for you. Basdd off that fight against the Xmen and Beast, who was faster, WWH or Beast? Throughout the entire fight, was Beast to fast for Hulk to hit, yes or no?

So am I to assume that Carver threads, by and large, are Hulk threads in disguise?

Originally posted by -Pr-
So am I to assume that Carver threads, by and large, are Hulk threads in disguise?

Lol... I mentioned Hulk and Wolverine fight, that Wolverine can predict Bricks movement by listening to their muscles and it lead to this. I tried to get back on topic as shown above but he can't just like you never, let me win.

Originally posted by carver9
It doesn't matter if they are effective or not, he is on the ground, surrounded being attacked and gets up with Beast coming at him. He wasn't in a position to defend himself (even if he needed to, which he didn't). Also, like I've said, even if he was standing up smiling during that scene, throughout that entire fight, Hulk had no troubles tagging Beast. Beast wasn't fast enough to dodge sh**. Hulk punched, slapped, thunder clapped Beast throughout that entire fight, without missing, without dodging, nothing. So no, Beast can't dance around Hulk because as shown, Hulk slapped him anytime he wanted to. Now I have a question for you. Basdd off that fight against the Xmen and Beast, who was faster, WWH or Beast? Throughout the entire fight, was Beast to fast for Hulk to hit, yes or no?

So you're saying if an amped Hulk is on the ground, he would be too slow to get up and grab a meta tier character? A character who is weighed down and carrying another guy on his back?

Interesting. That doesn't sound like a very fast guy.

So you avoided my question, gotcha.

Originally posted by -Pr-
So am I to assume that Carver threads, by and large, are Hulk threads in disguise?

Or Gladiator ones.

But, essentially, yeah.

Originally posted by carver9
So you avoided my question, gotcha.

Because you hadn't answered mine

But to answer yours, I think they are roughly equal in speed. Beast can tag WWH, and WWH can tag Beast. Neither are vastly faster/slower than the other.

When Beast had Elixir on his back, however, he was able to dance around Hulk. That was undeniable.

Hulk also smacked Beast around, multiple times. Undeniable.

Hence, roughly equal. Same as with Logan, same as with X-23 etc etc. WWH, one of the most powerful Hulks of all time, wasn't vastly superior to them, and neither were they vastly superior to him.

Edit: unless of course, the storyline was poorly written. But you will never admit that

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I mentioned Hulk and Wolverine fight, that Wolverine can predict Bricks movement by listening to their muscles and it lead to this. I tried to get back on topic as shown above but he can't just like you never, let me win.

There's nothing wrong with using other fights as a point of comparison. You've just gone way, way ****ing past that.

And strayed in to ABC logic a fair bit too.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Or Gladiator ones.

But, essentially, yeah.

Originally posted by carver9
I just went back and looked at the fight, you're trolling. He had just got off the ground after the Xmen attacked him. Beast got his a** beat the entire time and easily at that...

First scan, Beast admits he along with the Xmen can't stop him...

https://ibb.co/pjXgT2m

Second scan, Hulk punch him with ease.

https://ibb.co/ZYbDXhM

3rd scan, they remove Hulk healing power...

https://ibb.co/Pr02HWt

Hulk gets dust attacked and still punches Beast with ease...

https://ibb.co/gztMpR7

Gets stabbed in the eye and blasted, punched and still proceed at punching Beast with his eyes closed...

https://ibb.co/vPzp2SF

Beast backed by a team and gets punched again...
https://ibb.co/09CfNxF

The ending results of Beast...

https://ibb.co/Tq5SqPf

Lol... you posted a scan of Hulk getting up off of the ground after the Xmen attack and reaching for Beast. As shown, Beast dancing as you say (hilarious) was NOTHING. Hulk tagged him easily, when he wanted to tag him. F****** hilarious.

This proves what you just said as wrong. Then, your argument wasn't them being equals, at least I got you to change your stance. Now, I'm getting off of this topic. I'm satisfied with the results today.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
WWH tagged him just fine, same WWH that Beast (whilst carrying someone) was literally dancing around.

I showed Kalibak tagging Max Mercury, a legit speedster, whilst specifically mentioning his speed. This isn't like say, Batman or Deathstroke tagging a speedster - Kalibak specifically says a speedster's speed is not impressive to him, then tags him.

Moreover, you didn't even clarify which versions of everyone this is - Metallo is able to create bodies out of whatever metal he touches.

Imagine if he gets touched by adamantium

Also, Pr, even though you will ignore this because it's coming from me, this is what started the WWH debate.

Originally posted by carver9
This proves what you just said as wrong. Then, your argument wasn't them being equals, at least I got you to change your stance. Now, I'm getting off of this topic. I'm satisfied with the results today.

Wasn't it?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean, what is your excuse? That Hulk 'allowed' it to happen? That the writers 'allowed' it to happen? Fact remains, Beast, whilst carrying someone, was too fast for WWH. You can show WWH tagging him, that's A-OK. All that shows is WWH and Beast are in the same ballpark.

But I forgot, you also said this:

Originally posted by carver9
So you're saying he is slower than Beast and Kitty Pride but faster than X23 and Wolverine? OK, I can agree with that.

So.

Beast > WWH > Wolverine. We all agree on this. You said it, after all. YOUR OWN WORDS.

With that said, Kalibak, who is able to tag actual speedsters like Max Mercury whilst laughing at their speed, will grab Logan, and beat him senseless/simply hold him down. WWH could do it, after all - WWH, who in your opinion is slower than Beast in a well written storyline

Thanks for this.

Lol... why are you still going? The discussion is done. Beast backed by a team couldn't even avoid Hulk punches. I was obviously joking there. Move on because I am. We can BZ this? Is Beast faster than WWH or can he dance around WWH in a fight. Let me know.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, Pr, even though you will ignore this because it's coming from me, this is what started the WWH debate.

Originally posted by -Pr-
There's nothing wrong with using other fights as a point of comparison. You've just gone way, way ****ing past that.

And strayed in to ABC logic a fair bit too.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... why are you still going? The discussion is done. Beast backed by a team couldn't even avoid Hulk punches. I was obviously joking there. Move on because I am. We can BZ this? Is Beast faster than WWH or can he dance around WWH in a fight. Let me know.

Because the discussion is not done.

My point was to show that my stance has always been that Beast and WWH are in the same ballpark in terms of speed.

I mean, I even said it in THIS thread:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
@Stilt:Indeed.

My point is that WWH and Beast and X-23 and Logan were all in the same ballpark in terms of speed.

Unless we want to argue that all of them were hypersonic, lmao.

@Csrver: he was trying to catch Beast. And failed.

And before:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85

I mean, what is your excuse? That Hulk 'allowed' it to happen? That the writers 'allowed' it to happen? Fact remains, Beast, whilst carrying someone, was too fast for WWH. You can show WWH tagging him, that's A-OK.All that shows is WWH and Beast are in the same ballpark.

So....yeah, I am and always have been consistent. WWH/Logan/Beast are all in the same ballpark in terms of speed.

This is an amped Hulk, btw. In a well written storyline, where all characters are being written well, so it is valid for this thread (where Logan is written at his peak).

Logan, who as per your own scans is unable to tag speedsters, and has to rely on prediction.

THUS, in summary:

In a well-written story ( ), WWH, Beast and Logan are all ~the same level of speed.

WWH is fast enough to be able to grab Logan, and punch him until he got brain damage. Same WWH who wasn't able to grab Beast. Same Logan who is unable to tag Speed Demon, and has to rely on prediction to hit him.

Meanwhile, Kalibak is fast enough to tag actual bonafide speedsters (MAx Mercury), whilst laughing at them.

Kalibak grabs Logan (remember, he is massive lol) and smashes him in. Maybe even uses his Beta Club, lol.

Finally, we are back on topic. Wolverine tagged Gladiator who have light speed showings. Even jumped on his back while he was flying. Read the Impulse book (thanks for the issue number) and the speedster was still too fast for him, even while injured. Kalibak lost the fight due to speed. He got speed blitzed. So we have Kalibak hitting an injured speedster vs Wolverine stabbing a non-injured speedster. ABC logic to its finest. Wolverine shanks him to death.

Originally posted by carver9
Finally, we are back on topic. Wolverine tagged Gladiator who have light speed showings. Even jumped on his back while he was flying. Read the Impulse book (thanks for the issue number) and the speedster was still too fast for him, even while injured. Kalibak lost the fight due to speed. He got speed blitzed. So we have Kalibak hitting an injured speedster vs Wolverine stabbing a non-injured speedster. ABC logic to its finest. Wolverine shanks him to death.

Except, we also have WWH catching him, punching him and giving him brain damage.

Same WWH who was unable to catch Beast, who was carrying a guy on his back.

So it doesn't take much to grab Logan and beat his brains out.

Assuming it was a well written comic, of course

I agree with you that Wolverine might be too fast for Kalibak and WWH is too fast for Kalibak as well based off fts. What about the other people? Do you feel Mongul could win?

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with you that Wolverine might be too fast for Kalibak and WWH is too fast for Kalibak as well based off fts. What about the other people? Do you feel Mongul could win?

I never said that, so I don't know what you are agreeing with.

I feel confident that Kalibak would annihilate Wolverine based on his WWH showings, and as per your opinion that is all that is needed.

So stops hard at 3. Don't know about Metallo, though, as I haven't seen any feats for him. Could stop at 2, depending on what you think is the version that doesn't make this a spite match

Yes, Kalibak will do good in the beginning but like you said based off his WWH showing, Wolverine should be able to endure punches from Kalibak ending with him getting the kill in the end. Yep, WWH punches>>>Kalibak punches based off fts. Wolverine having the speed advantage, being able to withstand Kalibak punches, healing factor, Adamantium claws and bones, he wins a healthy majority against Kalibak. What about the others?

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, Kalibak will do good in the beginning but like you said based off his WWH showing, Wolverine should be able to endure punches from Kalibak ending with him getting the kill in the end. Yep, WWH punches>>>Kalibak punches based off fts. Wolverine having the speed advantage, being able to withstand Kalibak punches, healing factor, Adamantium claws and bones, he wins a healthy majority against Kalibak. What about the others?

Kalibak's hand is like, larger than Wolverine's entire body, lmao. If you accept he can be hit, then you accept he can be grabbed.

Except Kalibak's hand is larger than Hulk's, lol. So Logan can't do anything when his entire body is held by a single hand. You aren't thinking this through, lol. Again, against 6ft 2 Batman:

https://i.postimg.cc/4xmkVpp8/RCO035-1572439079-1.jpg

Stops hard at 3. Kalibak just holds him. If you want, he can simply hold Logan and keep blasting him with the Beta Club Logan is like a whole foot shorter than Bats.

You didn't answer my question about Metallo. Rebirth Metallo has zero feats. So which version are you using?

You're acting as if Kalibak's size is consistent, lol.

He can be a "giant" in one panel and just gorilla-sized in another...

If there is one thing we really can't trust in comics, it's size of those characters.

And of their penises.

Well carver might like this then.

Against the 6 ft 4 Grail, lol. She's quite fast, isn't she? But note how large his hands are compared to her, and she would dwarf poor Logan:

https://i.postimg.cc/Z5zKcBmy/6907429-grabs-and-throws-grail-justice-league-44.jpg

I remember Carver was quite impressed with Grail - this scene is also from her first few appearances, iirc, when she was still quite impressive.

Now imagine instead of throwing her, he just.....held her, lol. But then, I seem to recall she was stronger than WW (and hence, Logan). So not quite applicable.

I said Wolverine might be to fast for Kalibak AND that he can endure hits from him. I never said he would get hit. Also, Kalibak got not only speed blitzed by a dog but he got hurt as well...

https://ibb.co/X2x1bvX

Wolverine claws>>>>>>>>>>dog bite. Wolverine speed>>>>>>>>>>>>Dog speed.

Latest version of Metallo.

Originally posted by carver9
I said Wolverine might be to fast for Kalibak AND that he can endure hits from him. I never said he would get hit. Also, Kalibak got not only speed blitzed by a dog but he got hurt as well...

https://ibb.co/X2x1bvX

Wolverine claws>>>>>>>>>>dog bite. Wolverine speed>>>>>>>>>>>>Dog speed.

So wait....you said Kalibak would do well. Now you are saying Kalibak wouldn't even get a hit in?

Dear me. You have to make your mind up, Carvy. And are you saying ONLY Wolverine gets his high end feats, but everyone else is using their low end feats? Tsk tsk.

Edit: what feats does this Metallo have? Educate me, please.

I can't believe he is Darkseid's son.

That really needs to be retconned away. Make him Killer Croc's son or something...

@darksaint...

Yes, he endures Wolverine claws as long as he can and dies in the end. Proof that Wolverine can cut him is above.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, he endures Wolverine claws as long as he can and dies in the end. Proof that Wolverine can cut him is above.

Ahh, so you are using the low showings for everyone else.

So not full capacity. Got ya.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wolverine could be at his worst and he'd still clear.

You are so predictable I genuinely tried to debate, but once more you disappoint me.

@Dark...

Why do you feel Kalibak can grab Wolverine?

I don't think Kalibak can endure much, tbh.

Unless we want to discuss Pre-Crisis Kalibak:

https://i.imgur.com/TRb8pZZ.jpg

Never getting tired of seeing Supes put in his place.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I don't think Kalibak can endure much, tbh.

Unless we want to discuss Pre-Crisis Kalibak:

https://i.imgur.com/TRb8pZZ.jpg

Never getting tired of seeing Supes put in his place.

He's not withstanding Wolverine claws, period and based off of Wolverine showings against elite bricks, he should be able to take Kalibak out imo.

Based on Logan being grabbed by WWH, who in turn was unable to avoid slashes from X-23, and was unable to catch Beast whilst he was carrying Elixir.

In turn, Kalibak has grabbed Grail (who is faster? than WW), and has straight up laughed at Max Mercury whilst tagging him.

Now, the first paragraph I typed out may just be bad PIS writing,where the writer didn't know how to write a good fight scene with an amped Hulk. But you are convinced it's good writing, so it's actually usable for this thread. I'm not low balling Hulk, or Logan - the events happened just as I described.

So all one needs is ~ Beast /mid meta level speed to grab Logan, which I am confident Kalibak at least has. I'm not saying Kalibak is the fricking Flash lol, just that he is able to duplicate WWH level speed AS DISPLAYED when Hulk faced the X-Men.

So you admit that you're using one showing ro prove Kalibak will grab Wolverine? Right? Also, are you saying Kalibak is as fast as Flash and Grail?

Now I think it might've been Post-Crisis, but can anyone confirm?

Would be a legit feat then and Kalibak really needs those.

Phil spent more than a decade finding only a handful of feats for that ogre

Most New Gods are so lame, it's really a shame. They pretty much have the same problem as Inhumans.

Originally posted by carver9
So you admit that you're using one showing ro prove Kalibak will grab Wolverine? Right? Also, are you saying Kalibak is as fast as Flash and Grail?

I literally said no to both those statements, ffs lmao. Read my post again.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Now I think it might've been Post-Crisis, but can anyone confirm?

Would be a legit feat then and Kalibak really needs those.

Phil spent more than a decade finding only a handful of feats for that ogre

Most New Gods are so lame, it's really a shame. They pretty much have the same problem as Inhumans.

He threw a weapon at an injured Flash and the same Flash (that was injured) speed blitzed him and took him out with ease. It's a non-showing.

Originally posted by carver9
He threw a weapon at an injured Flash and the same Flash (that was injured) speed blitzed him and took him out with ease. It's a non-showing.

Max Mercury, whilst injured,is still far faster than Wolverine. Totally a feat.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Most New Gods are so lame, it's really a shame. They pretty much have the same problem as Inhumans.

You ****ing take that back.

Why carv calls him Flash?

It wasn't a bad thread at first, but it's been carverized so much at this point, I think I need to get some rest from kmc again...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I literally said no to both those statements, ffs lmao. Read my post again.

Gotcha. He's not as fast as Grail, Wonder Woman or a Flash. Based off ALL showings, Wolverine appears to be faster than Kalibak. You keep mentioning Hulk for some strange reason (we know why) even though Wolverine have a history of showings that you are ignoring (and we know why). You mentioning one showing and clinging with it is like me mentioning one showing and clinging with it. We both have a history of fts to pull from (we know why you are clinging to WWH vs Wolverine). With that said, imo, Wolverine showings OVERALL shows he have a speed advantage here.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Why carv calls him Flash?

It wasn't a bad thread at first, but it's been carverized so much at this point, I think I need to get some rest from kmc again...
He has no idea what he's arguing, and is just reacting and barking at anything he can.

Look, this all goes away once we all agree the WWH/X-MEN fight was poorly done.

But Carv would never admit it. Therefore,for the purposes of this thread, Logan/Beast etc were all actually written at their best
Then we get into Metallo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You ****ing take that back.

It's the truth.

Everybody only cares about Darkseid, because he's COOL (mmmm you hate that word, don't cha)... same thing with Black Bolt.