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DD and Electra are possessed by the Hand and are hired to kill Shang. They break into his home. This is a deathmatch.

Can Shang prevail?

I guess I havent kept up with Shang in a long time so i'm not understanding how he has a chance here, but i'm willing to learn and listen.

Originally posted by tkitna
I guess I havent kept up with Shang in a long time so i'm not understanding how he has a chance here, but i'm willing to learn and listen.
Really? I thought Shang Chi was supposed to be the best martial artist in Marvel?

Originally posted by marcssands14
Really? I thought Shang Chi was supposed to be the best martial artist in Marvel?

Doesnt Elektra have mind control powers? Is Shang immune to that? Again, I dont know.

Daredevil would hold his own, but lose a majority. There could be arguments for both sides against Elektra. Against both, it's spite.

Last time DD was possessed he soloed Shang, Iron Fist, Spidey, Wolverine, Electra and Punisher. Not sure how Shang stands a chance.

Originally posted by beatboks
Last time DD was possessed he soloed Shang, Iron Fist, Spidey, Wolverine, Electra and Punisher. Not sure how Shang stands a chance.

If that's true then it doesn't count. DD can't beat Spidey or Wolverine in a forum setting, possessed or not.

Originally posted by h1a8
If that's true then it doesn't count. DD can't beat Spidey or Wolverine in a forum setting, possessed or not.

Its canon so it counts. He was amped though. Read Shadowland

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Its canon so it counts. He was amped though. Read Shadowland PIS or SMvsFL doesn't count, canon or not.

Since he was amped then it doesn't count here.

Originally posted by h1a8
PIS or SMvsFL doesn't count, canon or not.

Since he was amped then it doesn't count here.

OP says DD is possessed, so why isn't it counting?

Also dude DD has matched Spidey several times without amps no problem

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/6/61327/1176263-1128164_1038486_13lp1_super_1_.jpg


https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/6/61327/1176264-1128167_1038487_57yz_super_1_.jpg

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/8/89104/1639893-amazing_spiderman_287_18.jpg
Spidey eventually got on top of that one a few pages later

He's also done the same to Logan once and has soloed the xmen team

DD matched Spider-Man only when Spider-Man was holdin back and didn't fought seriously.

Possessed with what powers, exactly? DD with Beast possession was powerful, but "Hand" possession apparently doesn't have same power level as Beast demonic possession.

Elektra once fought with Shang Chi to standstill, also. Without being possessed.

Matt wins via white privilege

Originally posted by beatboks
Last time DD was possessed he soloed Shang, Iron Fist, Spidey, Wolverine, Electra and Punisher. Not sure how Shang stands a chance.

Yes, but he was possessed by the Beast specifically. And that amped him drastically.

"Normal" possession is not going to do that, not to such degree at least, unless that was the thread starter's (marcssands14) intention.

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
DD matched Spider-Man only when Spider-Man was holdin back and didn't fought seriously.

Wrong.

Matt knocked bloodlusted Peter out --- even though Parker landed a cheapshot.

And Parker had the symbiote, too. And before you say the symbiote didn't amp him back in the day... it's debatable, it did provide him unlimited webbing and few other perks... and new comics exploring that particular period actually show us that Parker was enhanced.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wrong.

Matt knocked bloodlusted Peter out --- even though Parker landed a cheapshot.

And Parker had the symbiote, too. And before you say the symbiote didn't amp him back in the day... it's debatable, it did provide him unlimited webbing and few other perks... and new comics exploring that particular period actually show us that Parker was enhanced.

Knocking bloodlusted Spidey was a PIS (Spider-Man has taken worse punishment and wasn't KOed like that), plus Spider-Man wasn't in his right mind (Spidey was wearing a black suit also, not a symboite, if I recall correctly, KOing a symbiote Spidey would be even more PIS).

Daredevil has actually admitted once than she can't outfight Spidey, but can only outthink him, when Spidey was mind-controlled and blitzed him even after DD was able o see Spider-Man's attack, but was unable to react on his punch.

Also, Spider-Man, while being mind-controlled, knocked DD out with a single good punch, although DD wasn't in his suit and didn't expected that from Spidey (Spider-man was without his suit too), but in fact DD even after landing a hit on controlled Spidey was pwned by him.

Originally posted by carthage
Matt wins via white privilege

Isn't asians have better IQ and etc? Although it's very blurry (IQ, I mean).

Originally posted by beatboks
OP says DD is possessed, so why isn't it counting?

Also dude DD has matched Spidey several times without amps no problem

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/6/61327/1176263-1128164_1038486_13lp1_super_1_.jpg


https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/6/61327/1176264-1128167_1038487_57yz_super_1_.jpg

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/8/89104/1639893-amazing_spiderman_287_18.jpg
Spidey eventually got on top of that one a few pages later

He's also done the same to Logan once and has soloed the xmen team

Wolverine and Spider-Man can sit there and allow DD to hit them all he wants and they will not be severely damaged. Unless you think taking hits from class 50 and above characters is PIS (Luke Cage, Hulk, etc). Can't have it both ways.

Eh, it's comics - you CAN have it both ways, thanks to the magic that is pressure points.

Just imagine a 100 tonner knew them. Like if Thing knew pressure points in all those classic fights.


Come to think of it, Superman did use pressure points to effectively blitz peers:

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c1349dee3d5423b20f478852eb70f3db

https://m.imgur.com/S4XrLPj

Pressure points are OP.

Originally posted by cdtm
Just imagine a 100 tonner knew them. Like if Thing knew pressure points in all those classic fights.


Come to think of it, Superman did use pressure points to effectively blitz peers:

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c1349dee3d5423b20f478852eb70f3db

https://m.imgur.com/S4XrLPj

Pressure points are OP.

And Shang Chi once tried to use pressure points Ben Grimm, but it was useless, Thing still held him in a bearhug aand could crush him, but the fight was interrupted.

But anyway, pressure points in fiction are legit cheats, which allows small and realtively weak characters defeats an opponents way more powerful and stronger than them. Even bulletproff superhumans and other foes which usually shouldn;t have any troubles with a non-powered characters.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wolverine and Spider-Man can sit there and allow DD to hit them all he wants and they will not be severely damaged. Unless you think taking hits from class 50 and above characters is PIS (Luke Cage, Hulk, etc). Can't have it both ways.

Indeed. Plus, Echo once already used pressure points on Logan and he only became more angry. Daredevil also said than pressure points makes Wolverine angrier.

The only one ocassion where pressure points had a legit effect on Logan was his 1982 solo run, and there he was weakened by a poison and also because his healing factor wasn't that insane than it became in later comics.

Otherwise, it was outliers or PIS/bad writing.

Pressure points also worked in Enemy of the State, with Elektra using her Sais to paralyse him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pressure points also worked in Enemy of the State, with Elektra using her Sais to paralyse him.

As long as she kept applying the pressure, it was doing the trick, yes.

Yeah. Essentially negating his HF (same way Warpath could lock WWH's arms up).

Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
The only one ocassion where pressure points had a legit effect on Logan was his 1982 solo run, and there he was weakened by a poison and also because his healing factor wasn't that insane than it became in later comics.

It needs to be said that Logan still did an excellent job "tanking" the first series of strikes --- which were sort of cheapshots, as he hasn't figured out yet that Shingen was the dirtbag who would try to murder him the very first chance he got during that "sparring" with bokkens.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah. Essentially negating his HF (same way Warpath could lock WWH's arms up).

Yes.

I could mention how Wolverine was in a horrible shape, having just healed from being reduced to hamburger meat, dying at the hands of Gorgon and getting resurrected by the Hand before that, fighting the mind-control or missing the portion of his soul...

But truth is, it's the only example we have with embedded weapons in nerve clusters that are being kept in place.

It's much easier to argue that Wolverine simply wouldn't allow himself to get in that position if he was in his right mind and at 100%.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It needs to be said that Logan still did an excellent job "tanking" the first series of strikes --- which were sort of cheapshots, as he hasn't figured out yet that Shingen was the dirtbag who would try to murder him the very first chance he got during that "sparring" with bokkens.



Yes.

I could mention how Wolverine was in a horrible shape, having just healed from being reduced to hamburger meat, dying at the hands of Gorgon and getting resurrected by the Hand before that, fighting the mind-control or missing the portion of his soul...

But truth is, it's the only example we have with embedded weapons in nerve clusters that are being kept in place.

It's much easier to argue that Wolverine simply wouldn't allow himself to get in that position if he was in his right mind and at 100%.


His HF makes it hard to really judge how "worn" he is though.


And I'd like to think his comments about Elektra's speed hold water, as he never said anything about being unable to keep up because of the shape he was in, but simply expressed shock and awe at her speed level.

Originally posted by cdtm
His HF makes it hard to really judge how "worn" he is though.


And I'd like to think his comments about Elektra's speed hold water, as he never said anything about being unable to keep up because of the shape he was in, but simply expressed shock and awe at her speed level.

Such lip service matters to an extent, but would've mattered ten times more if hadn't had several voices in his head and hadn't been missing the part of his soul specifically responsible for some of his fighting spirit/skills.

Heather Hudson stated after the training exercise with robots that it is Wolverine's mind which makes him so dangerous, not his powers or fighting skills --- then you have Nightcrawler commenting that if Wolverine wasn't possessed, he would be able to negate any attack Kurt tried on him.

Historically, mind-controlled characters exhibit plenty of problems with their performance, hence why we avoid using those as legit examples on this forum.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It needs to be said that Logan still did an excellent job "tanking" the first series of strikes --- which were sort of cheapshots, as he hasn't figured out yet that Shingen was the dirtbag who would try to murder him the very first chance he got during that "sparring" with bokkens.



Yes.

I could mention how Wolverine was in a horrible shape, having just healed from being reduced to hamburger meat, dying at the hands of Gorgon and getting resurrected by the Hand before that, fighting the mind-control or missing the portion of his soul...

But truth is, it's the only example we have with embedded weapons in nerve clusters that are being kept in place.

It's much easier to argue that Wolverine simply wouldn't allow himself to get in that position if he was in his right mind and at 100%.

Great conclusion.

And same about a moment where "Wolverine was defeated by Daredevil with a single strike to the head with a dumbbell".

It apparently freed Logan from mind control of Hydra, if I recall correctly. So, Logan lost his consious and fallen, but not because that strike was too hard. Logan talken hits way worse that a dumbbell in the head (such as how WWH pummeled him in his head, causing Logan's brain rattling inside of his adamantium skull, and Logan still fought back as much as he could, WWH used a BFR tactics later).

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Such lip service matters to an extent, but would've mattered ten times more if hadn't had several voices in his head and hadn't been missing the part of his soul specifically responsible for some of his fighting spirit/skills.

Heather Hudson stated after the training exercise with robots that it is Wolverine's mind which makes him so dangerous, not his powers or fighting skills --- then you have Nightcrawler commenting that if Wolverine wasn't possessed, he would be able to negate any attack Kurt tried on him.

Historically, mind-controlled characters exhibit plenty of problems with their performance, hence why we avoid using those as legit examples on this forum.


With the noteable exception of an Eclipsed Superman beating on some Big Red Cheese, and subsequently beating Eclipsed Lar Gand to within an inch of his life while dying from lack of oxygen. 🤗