Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

HOTM Hulk-
https://postimg.cc/Yjm0n1Pw
https://postimg.cc/ykmdB7BQ

v.s.

The team of Kryptonians who killed Doomsday-
https://postimg.cc/ZCdNNkmp
https://postimg.cc/YvNmX1hS
https://postimg.cc/jCCPswk8
https://postimg.cc/w3PJ3qC9

***NO Superman though***

Kryptonians.

Hulk

Originally posted by h1a8
Hulk Get some tissue ready to pass out. There will be a lot of crying.

A half powered Kryptonian was no selling being inside a black hole. GG.

How is that a stronger argument than the collateral damage argument?

Originally posted by Delta1938
A half powered Kryptonian was no selling being inside a black hole. GG.
When?

Originally posted by Stoic
How is that a stronger argument than the collateral damage argument?

Because I know what a black hole is....?

One kryptonian under the yellow sun is enough

Originally posted by Delta1938
Because I know what a black hole is....?

You aren't understanding. We need combat related feats to compare to.

Originally posted by Stoic
You aren't understanding. We need combat related feats to compare to.

More like you're jumping from one argument to another. You go from collateral damage to saying "combat related feats?" Also, he and two others were fighting inside it, so unless you move the goalpost, that should fit your needs.

Originally posted by abhilegend
When?

Don't remember the issue but Chris Kent and his girlfriend and that third guy.

Oh that

So fighting inside the event horizon of a black hole?
If so then all space documentaries explain that a human can survive the first few moments in one before they get too close to the singularity. Surviving the singularity would B a greater durability feat than Hulk's feat though.

Terrax has survived in a black hole for months and Hulk would still one punch him. Hulk stomps.

Originally posted by h1a8
So fighting inside the event horizon of a black hole?
If so then all space documentaries explain that a human can survive the first few moments in one before they get too close to the singularity. Surviving the singularity would B a greater durability feat than Hulk's feat though.

It depends on the size.

https://astronomy.com/news/2020/07/what-would-happen-if-you-fell-into-a-black-hole

In fact depending on it, you'd actually get ripped apart before entering the event horizon.

Originally posted by carver9
Terrax has survived in a black hole for months and Hulk would still one punch him. Hulk stomps.

In your wet dreams.

@Delta1938, It happened in canon. Your entire stance is to belittle, pay no heed to documented canon, and jump back into whatever point of view you've chosen to peddle. Claiming to know me? You don't know shit about me. This version of the Hulk would've absolutely demolished Doomsday. He had full access to his power source.

Originally posted by Delta1938
It depends on the size.

https://astronomy.com/news/2020/07/what-would-happen-if-you-fell-into-a-black-hole

In fact depending on it, you'd actually get ripped apart before entering the event horizon. You are absolutely correct. Small stellar black holes will rip human level beings up far before they reach the horizon.

For a ~5 solar mass black hole (close to minimum natural one). A human would experience less than 10 million tons of force difference from their head to their feet. So I estimate that very durable beings (like Kryptonians) experience force differentials from millions of tons to planetary level forces depending on how far inside (or how close to the singularity) they are. I have to do some calculation to be sure.

Originally posted by carver9
Terrax has survived in a black hole for months and Hulk would still one punch him. Hulk stomps. That's not how comics work Carv. A character can lift a mountain in one scene and get koed by a gas station in another. A character can rip the core of a star out and get manhandled by a less than 1000 ton being. Highs and lows Carv. Highs and lows.

Comic book black holes aren't worth shit.

https://imgur.com/a/NzGz7

WW AND some random humans fall into a black hole. They're all fine.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Comic book black holes aren't worth shit.

https://imgur.com/a/NzGz7

WW AND some random humans fall into a black hole. They're all fine.
Like lasers, Black Holes job a lot in fiction

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Comic book black holes aren't worth shit.

https://imgur.com/a/NzGz7

WW AND some random humans fall into a black hole. They're all fine.
TBH the black hole was specifically stated to be too dense fir light to escape and the lasso saved them.

Originally posted by Stoic
@Delta1938, It happened in canon. Your entire stance is to belittle, pay no heed to documented canon, and jump back into whatever point of view you've chosen to peddle. Claiming to know me? You don't know shit about me. This version of the Hulk would've absolutely demolished Doomsday. He had full access to his power source.

Wut? I never said it wasn't canon. I gave a canon example. What's the issue?

And I know you yet upset and rage in some instances where people disagree with you. Not all the time, but it certainly happens.

I know you moved the goal post here. I said this--

Originally posted by Delta1938
A half powered Kryptonian was no selling being inside a black hole. GG.

To which you replied--

Originally posted by Stoic
How is that a stronger argument than the collateral damage argument?

And I said--
Originally posted by Delta1938
Because I know what a black hole is....?

Explain how that's disputing anything being canon or belittling a feat. Am I belittling the feat, in your eyes, because I say it's inferior to what I cited? If that's the case, you're literally accusing me of belittling it because I disagree with you.

But then after I said about knowing what a black hole is, you replied--

Originally posted by Stoic
You aren't understanding. We need combat related feats to compare to.

So we go from collateral damage to combat feats? Or did you mean something else? All I see here is you moving the goal post.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Comic book black holes aren't worth shit.

https://imgur.com/a/NzGz7

WW AND some random humans fall into a black hole. They're all fine.

Since Wonder Woman was struggling being even near the blackhole(Alan Scott too IIRC), I'm gonna guess it's a tad better than that.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Like lasers, Black Holes job a lot in fiction

What does this even mean since lasers can vary?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Comic book black holes aren't worth shit.

https://imgur.com/a/NzGz7

WW AND some random humans fall into a black hole. They're all fine.

Hadn't noticed, the guy who set it off died. First narration box.

https://i.imgur.com/SKlrOCO_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

So unless there's another explanation you can give, they didn't survive unprotected.

The others didn't die.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The others didn't die.....
The lasso saved them.

It did. But they weren't spaghettified or whatever. They were still near the event horizon (,or inside?), Then she climbed out with the lasso.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It did. But they weren't spaghettified or whatever. They were still near the event horizon (,or inside?), Then she climbed out with the lasso.



Some Writer's don't 'know much about black holes when they wrote the arc.
So their take is that it doesn't take much durability to survive inside the event horizon.

Now it may be a writer that actually know the typ of forces inside an event horizon. But thats just speculation.

Originally posted by Delta1938
What does this even mean since lasers can vary?
Because this

Source:https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-for-a-laser-beam-to-travel-at-the-speed-of-light

Anyway, I was joking since these objects seem to be less dangerous or effective in fiction comparing to it in RL

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The others didn't die.....

Because they were protected somehow. Later comic even says it. Your entire premise is because normal humans didn't die, but the only normal human not protected died, so.....

Originally posted by Delta1938
Because they were protected somehow. Later comic even says it. Your entire premise is because normal humans didn't die, but the only normal human not protected died, so.....

Where does it say they were protected?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Where does it say they were protected?

The scene carter never read nor admitted he just saw the scan and assumed.

https://bit.ly/3l5UYmi

They speculate on what exactly is happening, but they specifically bring up the black hole, and that they should have died otherwise. Was it the also, or her generating the field, or something else? I dunno, but they were protected.

Unless you have an explanation for why that guy died but they didn't.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Because this

Source:https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-for-a-laser-beam-to-travel-at-the-speed-of-light

Anyway, I was joking since these objects seem to be less dangerous or effective in fiction comparing to it in RL

Not what I was thinking of. It being associated as jobbing like black holes made me think it meant people taking lasers, not speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
That's not how comics work Carv. A character can lift a mountain in one scene and get koed by a gas station in another. A character can rip the core of a star out and get manhandled by a less than 1000 ton being. Highs and lows Carv. Highs and lows.

You should be telling this to Delta who mentioned Black Holes as a reason for Hulk losing here when weaklings have survived them.

Originally posted by Delta1938
The scene carter never read nor admitted he just saw the scan and assumed.

https://bit.ly/3l5UYmi

They speculate on what exactly is happening, but they specifically bring up the black hole, and that they should have died otherwise. Was it the also, or her generating the field, or something else? I dunno, but they were protected.

Unless you have an explanation for why that guy died but they didn't.

guess it's just Marvel black holes that are weak then.

Lol, Carver. It isnt same thing You were using ABC logic. The similar example should be if Delta were using Black Pather or a speeding train
Originally posted by abhilegend
LMAO, Hulk gets his ass kicked by granny with gamma powers and dies by a train smashing him into the ground.

https://i.postimg.cc/yDhBnknT/19.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/p92vSR6M/20.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/8FtGQ92J/21.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/N9FcgbtN/22.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
guess it's just Marvel black holes that are weak then.

A black hole was also made to kill Krona. Not too shabby.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Lol, Carver. It isnt same thing You were using ABC logic. The similar example should be if Delta were using Black Pather or a speeding train

What's the train made out of? Also, the strongest krytonian got ktfo by a tractor being rammed on his head...

Originally posted by carver9
What's the train made out of? Also, the strongest krytonian got ktfo by a tractor being rammed on his head...
Carver you idiot . Also Wonder Woman almost got killed by a bullet that bounced off from the kryptonian you mentioned.

And Wonder Woman is >>>>>>Hulk by your own admission. So a random bullet > Wonder Woman>>>>>>>>Hulk LMAO

See how this play out?

Carv.....stop and try to understand what is being argued here. Don't just react and argue against the latest post you see.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Wut? I never said it wasn't canon. I gave a canon example. What's the issue?

And I know you yet upset and rage in some instances where people disagree with you. Not all the time, but it certainly happens.

I know you moved the goal post here. I said this--



To which you replied--



And I said--


Explain how that's disputing anything being canon or belittling a feat. Am I belittling the feat, in your eyes, because I say it's inferior to what I cited? If that's the case, you're literally accusing me of belittling it because I disagree with you.

But then after I said about knowing what a black hole is, you replied--



So we go from collateral damage to combat feats? Or did you mean something else? All I see here is you moving the goal post.

We have no idea how powerful they portrayed the black hole. Wonder Woman has been owned by less. If you were well aware of the scene, why are you making more out of this black hole than the other? If we are unable to give a hard number on one we certainly can't skip along and place one on the other.

Originally posted by Stoic
We have no idea how powerful they portrayed the black hole. Wonder Woman has been owned by less. If you were well aware of the scene, why are you making more out of this black hole than the other? If we are unable to give a hard number on one we certainly can't skip along and place one on the other.

This really comes down to, "I don't like the feat so it doesn't count." And you didn't address anything else I pointed out or asked. You accuse me of belittling while you do. If you're going this route, once Hulk came back to Earth he couldn't even destroy a mountain while beating on FFF. Sounds like a weak planet to me.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998


And Wonder Woman is >>>>>>Hulk by your own admission. So a random bullet > Wonder Woman>>>>>>>>Hulk LMAO

Where'd he say this?

Originally posted by Delta1938
Where'd he say this?

Source:http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=676825&pagenumber=7



100% KMC canon

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Source:http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=676825&pagenumber=7



100% KMC canon

Yet the fearful one has continued to back down from my Superman vs WW BZ challenge for years. Even tried to change the stipulations because of his feeeearing meeeee(he'll get the reference) and then lied accusing ME of lying about him trying to change it.

Okay, so here we are. I'll assume that we are replacing Doomsday with World Breaker Hulk right? No need to skip around. World Breaker Hulk is vastly more powerful than Doomsday. He had full control of his power source, which is at the very least Universal.

So Delta, if their durability is black hole level, I'm guess we can use Hulk highest durability showing and multiply that by 100 (since WBH is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than your standard Hulk), right?

Originally posted by Stoic
Okay, so here we are. I'll assume that we are replacing Doomsday with World Breaker Hulk right? No need to skip around. World Breaker Hulk is vastly more powerful than Doomsday. He had full control of his power source, which is at the very least Universal.

So I'm guessing we are NOT accepting WBH/Hulk highest but we accept random kryptonians highest? Is this what you are saying?

Originally posted by carver9
So I'm guessing we are NOT accepting WBH/Hulk highest but we accept random kryptonians highest? Is this what you are saying?

No. Are you not understanding, or just lying? If you don't understand, I'll do my best to dumb it down.

Also it was a half powered Kryptonian too, so.....

And I have only begun.

So you're saying none of Hulk hgih end fts count, but, the kryptonians he is fighting is black hole level in power? Gotcha. Since you're inconsistent, j guess I'll look through the thread for more level headed people..

Originally posted by carver9
So you're saying none of Hulk hgih end fts count, but, the kryptonians he is fighting is black hole level in power? Gotcha. Since you're inconsistent, j guess I'll look through the thread for more level headed people..

That's not what I said at all. So are you lying or just dumb?

hotm Hulk feat is far greater than being in the event horizon of a real black hole (real black hole >= comic black hole).

Think of the force to shatter planet with one punch x 1000.

I did some calculations. The most force one will experience halfway in the event horizon of a small black hole is astronomically less than that punch.

Originally posted by carver9
So Delta, if their durability is black hole level, I'm guess we can use Hulk highest durability showing and multiply that by 100 (since WBH is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than your standard Hulk), right? although Ill argue Hulk wins this fight, your logic is wrong.

If a character is more durability than another then that just means that their AVERAGE durability is higher. WBH has a higher durability showing than Hulk anyway.

Originally posted by Delta1938


Why the laughter? The Green Scar persona had full control of his powers, and full access to his power source. This was stated and shown during the Planet Hulk arc. He simply didn't release it while on Earth, but he was well above Doomsday.

Yep, quick response from me. Well here we go.

Originally posted by h1a8
hotm Hulk feat is far greater than being in the event horizon of a real black hole (real black hole >= comic black hole).

Think of the force to shatter planet with one punch x 1000.

I did some calculations. The most force one will experience halfway in the event horizon of a small black hole is astronomically less than that punch.

You can't actually prove that. Given the canon has it as not a normal planet. For one, when talking about other universes, including the Dark Dimension, we see it stated the laws of physics don't necessarily work the same(first narration box, bottom left panel)

https://bit.ly/3p5tsrN

Bottom middle panel talks about WHY the Dark Dimension is dark. Gravity is weaker there, so stars don't exist, and other issues. Like the very fabric of space itself, the "glue of the universe," is porous and weaker.

https://bit.ly/3lsCKf6

I believe it was HulkIsHulk who tried to counter it with this scan--

https://bit.ly/3iRCYun

That the mystics of the Dark Dimension used magick to stabilize gravity. But they merely stabilized it, not increased it. The very same series later has Surfer say matter in that universe seems weaker, which doesn't help any argument that the mages stabilizing gravity debunks the planet being weaker.

https://bit.ly/3v12kuF

https://bit.ly/3oMMEdz

This is going to trigger the Hulk stans, but HOTM strongly suggests Hulk died from it. In fact at one point says Hulk is destroyed and reformed. When preparing for when he'll stop holding back, Hulk says "we're gonna FIGHT like NO ONE else has fought BEFORE. And we're gonna DIE. And then we're gonna fight some more."

https://bit.ly/2YwII5z

The emphasis on "we're" is my own, but to highlight. Hulk says they're going to fight, die, and fight more. He does not exclude himself at all.

Hulk later repeats it, saying, "It's just time to FIGHT.....and DIE.....like the MONSTERS we are." Emphasis on "we" again my own.

https://bit.ly/304LkIz

https://bit.ly/3mImBS7

Again, Hulk says they're going to die, and does NOT exclude himself. So we twice have Hulk say "we/we're going to die" and does NOT exclude himself, but Doctor Strange also said nobody will survive, and he didn't exclude Hulk. In fact, Strange says nobody surviving is the end he wants.

https://bit.ly/3luC2xI

https://bit.ly/3mB89Lu

We know people died only to be brought back, like Cho and Dr. Cosimo, and seemingly Urma as well.


https://bit.ly/3AwkBkH


It's specifically stated he's going to be in an eternal cycle of "--fighting, burning and reforming--" so in addition to Hulk twice saying "we're" going to die(not excluding himself) and Strange saying similar, we have someone saying Hulk burns and REFORMS, after we see people who died came back.

https://bit.ly/3AtAuIz

Also, we have it stated the magick from the Wishing Well will resurrect everyone. Again, no exclusion of Hulk.

https://bit.ly/3lx9X8Y

It also seemed to be a shared feat with Red She-Hulk and the comic specifically stated she's as powerful as Hulk at this point.

https://bit.ly/3v4Aiia

Stoic has claimed that it's valid because she had Hulk's power, but I need to see evidence it's valid as a feat solely for Hulk.

But even if it is, Hulk at his strongest destroyed a planet with weak gravity and matter and died from it. Which is less impressive than say Gor destroying GL auto-shields.

Originally posted by Stoic
Why the laughter? The Green Scar persona had full control of his powers, and full access to his power source. This was stated and shown during the Planet Hulk arc. He simply didn't release it while on Earth, but he was well above Doomsday.

That Hulk's at least universal. Or maybe you weren't arguing he was, just that he has at least universal feats. I don't even have to get to Superman's best to go better than universal, but I don't argue he is universal, so maybe that's the type of argument you were making.

But Superman has better feats, still is under Doomsday. So what exactly is your argument? Do you think Hulk in this is>Thanos cor example?

Also I've pointed above to H1 why this isn't all it's cracked up to be. Including it being a shared feat. As I point out in it, I've seen you say Red She-Hulk had Hulk's power so even shared it's a legit feat for Hulk, not truly shared. I'd like to see evidence of this.

Red Hulk's siphon power until they overheat. Betty went further than she ever could due to the properties of the Wishing Well. What you saw was her latching unto the Hulk's power outage. Have to work, so later.

Originally posted by Stoic
Red Hulk's siphon power until they overheat. Betty went further than she ever could due to the properties of the Wishing Well. What you saw was her latching unto the Hulk's power outage. Have to work, so later.

Well thanks for giving an explanation, but that's like arguing it was all Superman's power because part of his energy was used to power a Daxamite then he went back to normal and the Daxamite got more powerful. So I'm gonna have to say it was a shared feat.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Well thanks for giving an explanation, but that's like arguing it was all Superman's power because part of his energy was used to power a Daxamite then he went back to normal and the Daxamite got more powerful. So I'm gonna have to say it was a shared feat.

No. Betty has a base strength that states that she is a Class 100. She in fact borrowed power from the Hulk. She didn't overheat because of the Wishing Well's magical properties. The Wishing Well did not give her extra powers that she did not have. We know how Red Hulk's powers work. They don't get stronger without first siphoning power. What we saw was her borrowing power from the Hulk and having the ability to ramp up in power as he ramped up.

Based on canon, we know that the Hulk was stated to have infinite strength per the Beyonder. The Green Scar version of the Hulk was able to unlock his potential based on events that occurred during Planet Hulk when he learns how to meditate. He no longer had to became furious to ramp up in power, he could ramp up instantly. This means that he had full control of his power and full access to the dimension that gives him his powers. We were not looking at a Herald level character during HOTM.

Originally posted by Delta1938
This isn't a satisfying explanation at all. Unless you're arguing that Hulk wasn't back to normal after being siphoned, but then again you're admitting that Betty has class 100 strength at base. So it still doesn't fit as all Hulk's power by your own argument.

Hypothetically infinite strength isn't the same as actual demonstration of infinite strength. Superman actually has feats like that. Still fewer than the number of Kryptonians here have been able to restrain him, even if temporarily (and the group didn't include Supergirl, who is in this group of Kryptonians, thread starter only said no Superman).



This does absolutely nothing to counter the argument I made.

I'm not here to satisfy you. You will either accept that which was written, or you won't. The Green Scar had no upper limit to his strength. Before even entering the Dark Dimension, he beat 2 characters that were 1000x more powerful than Savage Hulk. Betty as a Red Hulk did what Red Hulks do. It isn't up to me to convince you on how a Red Hulk's power set works. It's been explicitly explained in comics. That group of Kryptonians had clear limits, which became evident the moment that it took more than one to subdue Doomsday. This version of the Hulk was well above that weight class.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm not here to satisfy you. You will either accept that which was written, or you won't. The Green Scar had no upper limit to his strength. Before even entering the Dark Dimension, he beat 2 characters that were 1000x more powerful than Savage Hulk. Betty as a Red Hulk did what Red Hulks do. It isn't up to me to convince you on how a Red Hulk's power set works. It's been explicitly explained in comics. That group of Kryptonians had clear limits, which became evident the moment that it took more than one to subdue Doomsday. This version of the Hulk was well above that weight class.

You saying you're not here to satisfy me doesn't change the fact that even by your own argument, you're wrong. You yourself said that Red She-Hulk is at base class 100, so by default even if she had Hulk's power added it's not what you're trying to sell.

And you've just proven your double standards. You dismiss all the statements I provided to support Hulk dying by going, "Show him dying " yet you say he beat two characters 1,000 times more powerful. Prove they were 1,000 times more powerful. All you have is ONE statement from Bi-Beast, which could be hyperbole. I'm not arguing it is, simply pointing out it could be. If you accept blindly that Wendigo and Bi-Beast were 1,000 times more powerful based on one potentially hyperbolic statement, you must concede Hulk died when the planet was destroyed based on the multiple statements, including stronger statements.

You say they had clear limits because of fighting Doomsday, when Superman has better feats than Hulk yet still usually isn't as strong. So you're making a circular argument. Unless you're going to be a hypocrite and keep with Hulk beat the 2 of his enemies amped 1,000 times but didn't die in HOTM, then Gor has done better than Hulk by busting the GL auto-shields which is better than busting that planet even ignoring gravity and matter are weaker in the Dark Dimension. I don't think all these Kryptonians are that strong, but the difference isn't nearly great enough to matter with half the ones here.

Rogol Zaar had to destroy planets at their core. I mean, if we're going the route of attempting to invalidate the Hulk's strength. True fact* Most of the time, the Hulk is drastically holding back. That's been his story from the beginning. Does that give us a pass to claim that he's weak? What about his highs, or his highest? He's drastically weaker when he holds back, which is mostly always. He is powered by the Gammaverse, which is being written about these days. The One Below All is at minimum universal, or even more powerful than that. I highly doubt that it's a weakling within said universe. The Green Scar and all other Hulk mutates are powered by that place.

Originally posted by Stoic
Rogol Zaar had to destroy planets at their core. I mean, if we're going the route of attempting to invalidate the Hulk's strength. True fact* Most of the time, the Hulk is drastically holding back. That's been his story from the beginning. Does that give us a pass to claim that he's weak? What about his highs, or his highest? He's drastically weaker when he holds back, which is mostly always. He is powered by the Gammaverse, which is being written about these days. The One Below All is at minimum universal, or even more powerful than that. I highly doubt that it's a weakling within said universe. The Green Scar and all other Hulk mutates are powered by that place.

The issue here is this is a specific version of Hulk, and I'm arguing what happened in the very comics. He wasn't holding back here(whole point of the Wishing Well having everyone come back from the dead), and unless things were changed and I'm unaware of it(which is certainly possible, but if it has must be shown), gravity and matter were weaker in the Dark Dimension.

If we're going to go by highs, Superman has surpassed universal feats without being at his most powerful. Fewer than these Kryptonians(and not including Supergirl who is here against Hulk) have restrained him, as I've said before.

Originally posted by Delta1938
You saying you're not here to satisfy me doesn't change the fact that even by your own argument, you're wrong. You yourself said that Red She-Hulk is at base class 100, so by default even if she had Hulk's power added it's not what you're trying to sell.

And you've just proven your double standards. You dismiss all the statements I provided to support Hulk dying by going, "Show him dying " yet you say he beat two characters 1,000 times more powerful. Prove they were 1,000 times more powerful. All you have is ONE statement from Bi-Beast, which could be hyperbole. I'm not arguing it is, simply pointing out it could be. If you accept blindly that Wendigo and Bi-Beast were 1,000 times more powerful based on one potentially hyperbolic statement, you must concede Hulk died when the planet was destroyed based on the multiple statements, including stronger statements.

You say they had clear limits because of fighting Doomsday, when Superman has better feats than Hulk yet still usually isn't as strong. So you're making a circular argument. Unless you're going to be a hypocrite and keep with Hulk beat the 2 of his enemies amped 1,000 times but didn't die in HOTM, then Gor has done better than Hulk by busting the GL auto-shields which is better than busting that planet even ignoring gravity and matter are weaker in the Dark Dimension. I don't think all these Kryptonians are that strong, but the difference isn't nearly great enough to matter with half the ones here.

Back it up my guy. Don't assume to tell me what I'm thinking. You're wrong. Betty being a Class 100 has no bearing on how her powers work. For instance, if Betty fought Rampage, she'd begin at her base Class 100 strength lvl. While actively using her powers, she would buff herself by adding Rampages strength to her own. That does not mean that Betty at base is as strong as Rampage, or weaker than Rampage, just that it is how her abilities work. Continue ignoring my words on this, and you'll be sailing alone.

Double standards? Prove that Superman hit with the force of a megaverse that didn't actually destroy the planet that the World Forger stood on. The words were there, the increase in stature was there. Respect goes both ways.

You're entire view on this seems to be filled with biased perspectives. The book described them to be 1000x more powerful than normal. I'm not going on a gut feeling here. It is what was stated, and your inability to agree with what was written is actually the questionable element of this discussion. You don't get to make the rules, bend them in your favor, and pretend to play dumb when the evidence has been written into canon. The Green Scar had no upper limit to his strength level. Canon facts.

Originally posted by Stoic
Back it up my guy. Don't assume to tell me what I'm thinking. You're wrong. Betty being a Class 100 has no bearing on how her powers work. For instance, if Betty fought Rampage, she'd begin at her base Class 100 strength lvl. While actively using her powers, she would buff herself by adding Rampages strength to her own. That does not mean that Betty at base is as strong as Rampage, or weaker than Rampage, just that it is how her abilities work. Continue ignoring my words on this, and you'll be sailing alone.

Double standards? Prove that Superman hit with the force of a megaverse that didn't actually destroy the planet that the World Forger stood on. The words were there, the increase in stature was there. Respect goes both ways.

You're entire view on this seems to be filled with biased perspectives. The book described them to be 1000x more powerful than normal. I'm not going on a gut feeling here. It is what was stated, and your inability to agree with what was written is actually the questionable element of this discussion. You don't get to make the rules, bend them in your favor, and pretend to play dumb when the evidence has been written into canon. The Green Scar had no upper limit to his strength level. Canon facts.

Even going by this description, you're saying she was as strong as Hulk. By the way you were previously arguing, it looked like you're saying she had her base strength then siphoned Hulk. Now? You're saying she's made equal to Hulk, which is worse. Your argument requires the assumption he was strong enough to do it on his own.

I don't need to prove anything. You're doing my job for me by proving me right. Your assumption that Bi-Beast and Wendigo were 1,000 times more powerful than normal is based on ONE statement, which could be hyperbole. If you said "as much as 1,000 times" or "1,000 times if we take it literally " or something like that, you'd be acknowledging it's potentially hyperbole. If I say, "I feel like a million bucks" am I literally made up of $1 million? And yes it's a BLATANT double standard. You're arguing it based off only one statement but telling me to prove Hulk died without acknowledging multiple statements. The case is far stronger that Hulk died than Bi-Beast and Wendigo were literally 1,000 times more powerful.

I'm not making and bending rules, I'm pointing out what is in the comics. You're ignoring it.

I get it. You don't understand how a Red Hulk's powers work. Brush up on that. The rest of what you said was garbage. Did you see them die? No? So your evidence is weak. They were amped 1000x their base. This version of the Hulk had unlimited strength that he could call on, on the fly. The end.

Lol. Poor delta, getting owned every day and caught in lies. Smh.

I got more. It's for all of those that have attempted to invalidate the matter in the Dark Dimension.

As we know, the Dark Dimension was stated to be weaker than the main 616 universe. We have no idea how much weaker, but we can be sure that it's more durable than paper. So instead of using that as a basis to gauge things, how about we go by the showing of a Savage Hulk level character hitting the Green Scar with all of their might? Their assaults bounced off of him and were barely even noticed while he hasn't even begun to really ramp up. At that point, they'd probably have to 1000x more powerful before becoming a minor challenge. If you know where I'm going with this. He then turns around and within seconds becomes even more powerful. The Savage Hulk has never defeated either of these opponents without help. This shows us roughly how powerful he was while still drastically holding back.

Hulk eats them.

Originally posted by Stoic
As we know, the Dark Dimension was stated to be weaker than the main 616 universe. We have no idea how much weaker, but we can be sure that it's more durable than paper. So instead of using that as a basis to gauge things, how about we go by the showing of a Savage Hulk level character hitting the Green Scar with all of their might? Their assaults bounced off of him and were barely even noticed while he hasn't even begun to really ramp up. At that point, they'd probably have to 1000x more powerful before becoming a minor challenge. If you know where I'm going with this. He then turns around and within seconds becomes even more powerful. The Savage Hulk has never defeated either of these opponents without help. This shows us roughly how powerful he was while still drastically holding back.

How does that refute the Dark Dimension being more fragile?

Weak ass Hulk can rape Kryptonians anally.

You can only imagine what HOTM Hulk can do to the entire planet of those pussies.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Weak ass Hulk can rape Kryptonians anally.

You can only imagine what HOTM Hulk can do to the entire planet of those pussies.

what's up with you and anal rape

It's the meaning of life, my dear.

Everyone needs to experience it. Both active and passive ways.

Otherwise, you fail at life and go to hell.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nice copy paste.

Some of it

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How does that refute the Dark Dimension being more fragile?

We don't need the Dark Dimension's destruction to get an example. While holding back, he beat two Class 100 characters that were 1000x more powerful than they normally were.

Originally posted by Stoic
We don't need the Dark Dimension's destruction to get an example. While holding back, he beat two Class 100 characters that were 1000x more powerful than they normally were.

Pak did not even conjure up the thought of the Dark dimension being weaker.

That just strengthens my next point - that Pak didn't give a flying monkey's about power levels, and just tossed random numbers in (he did the Hercs thing too).
You think he sat down and said ahh yes, Strange #23 from 1953 said this, so I will take it into account? Of course not.

So then applying that logic to ahh yes, Wendigo #2 from 1976 said this, so k will take it into account, is wrong.

Also a million hercs are powerful enough to power new York for ten years.

https://i.postimg.cc/jCQg393s/7848948-7251824341-ltcfv2o-XIt2m-Nz0plis-Mu1-NDw-Nx-F-cp-VLwqx-Mso-U8-Bf6-Hq-Pdo-Xo-RA1c-Jl4gzs-Gh-FSm-RCP5-Tw1g-RJTqs-IB.jpg

GASP

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That just strengthens my next point - that Pak didn't give a flying monkey's about power levels, and just tossed random numbers in (he did the Hercs thing too).
You think he sat down and said ahh yes, Strange #23 from 1953 said this, so I will take it into account? Of course not.

So then applying that logic to ahh yes, Wendigo #2 from 1976 said this, so k will take it into account, is wrong.

In that case we'd better make certain that when your DC buddies claim that a feat is canon from back in the day, we'll be able to firmly discount them in the same hypocritical way that you've just done. Do you think any of these writers use real world physics while writing this stuff? No? So you've decided to jump in whenever it pleases you to invalidate a particular feat, but play blind man as long as it doesn't compromise your objective.

So yeah, let's attempt to move away from the fact that this version of the Hulk had full access to his power source, added to fine control over his abilities and then bring up the irrelevant. Here's an example...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also a million hercs are powerful enough to power new York for ten years.

https://i.postimg.cc/jCQg393s/7848948-7251824341-ltcfv2o-XIt2m-Nz0plis-Mu1-NDw-Nx-F-cp-VLwqx-Mso-U8-Bf6-Hq-Pdo-Xo-RA1c-Jl4gzs-Gh-FSm-RCP5-Tw1g-RJTqs-IB.jpg

GASP

This here is Abhi setting the stage for an attempted low ball. This will apparently grant his side the power to ignore the fact that this Hulk had the door wide open to access infinite power. Meanwhile we should ignore that the Kryptonians were unable to defeat Doomsday one on one. This Hulk would've wiped his feet with Doomsday.

Originally posted by Stoic
In that case we'd better make certain that when your DC buddies claim that a feat is canon from back in the day, we'll be able to firmly discount them in the same hypocritical way that you've just done. Do you think any of these writers use real world physics while writing this stuff? No? So you've decided to jump in whenever it pleases you to invalidate a particular feat, but play blind man as long as it doesn't compromise your objective.

So yeah, let's attempt to move away from the fact that this version of the Hulk had full access to his power source, added to fine control over his abilities and then bring up the irrelevant. Here's an example...



This here is Abhi setting the stage for an attempted low ball. This will apparently grant his side the power to ignore the fact that this Hulk had the door wide open to access infinite power. Meanwhile we should ignore that the Kryptonians were unable to defeat Doomsday one on one. This Hulk would've wiped his feet with Doomsday.

Actually, you have it very very wrong.

That's a comic.

On the forum, yes, we DO 100% apply 'canon' to comics fights. Even if Pak never sat down with old comics from the 60s, WE do -as it's all canon.

What we do ignore, is if it messes with the internal logic of the comic, what we call PIS.

BUT feel free to just jump in half cocked, lol.

Originally posted by Stoic
In that case we'd better make certain that when your DC buddies claim that a feat is canon from back in the day, we'll be able to firmly discount them in the same hypocritical way that you've just done. Do you think any of these writers use real world physics while writing this stuff? No? So you've decided to jump in whenever it pleases you to invalidate a particular feat, but play blind man as long as it doesn't compromise your objective.

So yeah, let's attempt to move away from the fact that this version of the Hulk had full access to his power source, added to fine control over his abilities and then bring up the irrelevant. Here's an example...



This here is Abhi setting the stage for an attempted low ball. This will apparently grant his side the power to ignore the fact that this Hulk had the door wide open to access infinite power. Meanwhile we should ignore that the Kryptonians were unable to defeat Doomsday one on one. This Hulk would've wiped his feet with Doomsday.
What lowballing? It's written by Pak only.

The dark Dimension wasn't weakened. Hulk melted beings that is on Savage Hulk level with the shockwaves from a single punch and he melted Fing Fang who was amplified to a point that no on Earth had the power to stop him (per Strange). The planet and the moon along with the entire dimension being destroyed is just a beastly side effect. Why are we not discussing Superman getting amped by MAGICAL, 3D imp suns and not just one, many of them which gave him an unknown amount of power since these are, ya know, suns that were created by MAGIC. I think that is something we should look into since he didn't use an everyday sun to gain a boost to knock over World Forger.

Did Carver just argue that magic, which is a well established weakness to Superman, amped Superman?

Also, WF is a 6th dimensional being not 5th LMAO

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Did Carver just argue that magic, which is a well established weakness to Superman, amped Superman?

Also, WF is a 6th dimensional being not 5th LMAO

I said the sun was created by magic. Never said it spewed magic. There's a difference.

Originally posted by carver9
I said the sun was created by magic. Never said it spewed magic. There's a difference.
So according to you these suns were created by magic, yet not magical. IOW normal suns unless you can prove otherwise

And again, WF is not an imp, He doesnt use magic lol.

Originally posted by carver9
The dark Dimension wasn't weakened. Hulk melted beings that is on Savage Hulk level with the shockwaves from a single punch and he melted Fing Fang who was amplified to a point that no on Earth had the power to stop him (per Strange). The planet and the moon along with the entire dimension being destroyed is just a beastly side effect. Why are we not discussing Superman getting amped by MAGICAL, 3D imp suns and not just one, many of them which gave him an unknown amount of power since these are, ya know, suns that were created by MAGIC. I think that is something we should look into since he didn't use an everyday sun to gain a boost to knock over World Forger.
Fin Fang Foom has only 15 hercs of power, a million hercs can power new York for ten years. That's not a lot of power.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So according to you these suns were created by magic, yet not magical. IOW normal suns unless you can prove otherwise

And again, WF is not an imp, He doesnt use magic lol.

I dont think the burden of proof is on me since these suns were created in a magical dimension that defies the laws of Superman universe and the suns were created out of thing air from nothing.

The 6th dimension is just a higher plane of existence. It isn't "magical".

That aside, WF created his multiverse in the 6th dimension the same way he created the contents of the 3D multiverse: Hammer + Forge.

Originally posted by carver9
I dont think the burden of proof is on me since these suns were created in a magical dimension that defies the laws of Superman universe and the suns were created out of thing air from nothing.
6th dimension isnt a magical dimension.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
6th dimension isnt a magical dimension.

Its>>>>>>>a standard universe. Proof of this is Mxy himself not being able to cross over to that plane and Superman needing imp amps for YEARS to aid him in surviving in that dimension.

Originally posted by carver9
Its>>>>>>>a standard universe. Proof of this is Mxy himself not being able to cross over to that plane and Superman needing imp amps for YEARS to aid him in surviving in that dimension.
It was a universe that WF created to trap Superman. He also created a duplicate of the main multiverse in order to replace the existing one. Hell, the multiverse itself was designed and set in motion in 6th dimension. IOW, 6th dimension can/did contain normal objects in it. Unless you want to argue the multiverse is far durable/powerful than normal multiverse in dc lol

And you also have the fact that WF absolutely didnt want Superman to fight/beat him, He even created a universe/pocket universe/galaxy trying to trap Superman in there. So do you have any logical reason for WF somehow deciding to create suns that could amp Superman beyond normal suns do and letting Superman oneshot him?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
It was a universe that WF created to trap Superman. He also created a duplicate of the main multiverse in order to replace the existing one. Hell, the multiverse itself was designed and set in motion in 6th dimension. IOW, 6th dimension can/did contain normal objects in it. Unless you want to argue the multiverse is far durable/powerful than normal multiverse in dc lol

And you also have the fact that WF absolutely didnt want Superman to fight/beat him, He even created a universe/pocket universe/galaxy trying to trap Superman in there. So do you have any logical reason for WF somehow deciding to create suns that could amp Superman beyond normal suns do and letting Superman oneshot him?

This doesn't have anything to do with what I said. I mentioned that no one could survive there, not even Mxy. Superman was only able to survive in this dimension due to Mxy giving him imp energy for YEARS. This alone is proof that this dimension is FAR more complex than the standard universe, especially if Mxy himself couldn't survive there and had to use most of his power to open a small door there. You don't have to call it magic but it sure as heck isn't normal either. Far from it.

The suns were not normal either.

Originally posted by carver9
This doesn't have anything to do with what I said. I mentioned that no one could survive there, not even Mxy. Superman was only able to survive in this dimension due to Mxy giving him imp energy for YEARS. This alone is proof that this dimension is FAR more complex than the standard universe, especially if Mxy himself couldn't survive there and had to use most of his power to open a small door there. You don't have to call it magic but it sure as heck isn't normal either. Far from it.

The suns were not normal either.
Yes, It does. it has everything to do with what you said. It already addressed your point and now you just circling the argument

-WF created a normal multiverse in 6th dimension/The original multiverse was also designed and set in motion in there too---Proof not everything in 6th dimension, Especially these universes WF created, Are always more complex than normal. Since it can/did contain normal universes/objects in there

-JL also entered the multiverse that resided in 6th dimension without dying--Again, Proved that normal objects can/did exist in 6th dimension, Unless you want to argue other JL members were amped in that arc?

-WF created that universe to trap Superman because he absolutely didnt want Superman to fight/beat him--IOW, There is no logical reason for WF somehow deciding to create suns that could amp Superman far greater than normal suns do. The opposite that these suns were amping him less than normal suns should be more likely, If anything

World Forger was creating a multiverse "after" Superman decked him in the face. Also, we have no clue the properties or how complex this multiverse would've been.

World Forger didn't create the suns, lmao. Also, again, you keep mentioning the place being a trap for Superman, but, Superman only survived there due to Mxy giving him imp energy for YEARS. Without it, he would've died. You're not addressing my statement.

So much cope lmao

Originally posted by carver9
World Forger was creating a multiverse "after" Superman decked him in the face. Also, we have no clue the properties or how complex this multiverse would've been.

World Forger didn't create the suns, lmao. Also, again, you keep mentioning the place being a trap for Superman, but, Superman only survived there due to Mxy giving him imp energy for YEARS. Without it, he would've died. You're not addressing my statement.
..........Now Im pretty sure you dont read the story

WF stated he created this multiverse and its only purpose was to replace the existing/original multiverse. Oh, this is a scene that happened before Superman oneshotted WF
https://ibb.co/HCGgfV1
https://ibb.co/2s48rWB
https://ibb.co/rQD3Fb1
https://ibb.co/FX3y0s4
https://ibb.co/vsLzSk1
https://ibb.co/fXmhB5z

And here, It was stated the original/normal multiverse was designed and set in motion in 6th dimension
https://ibb.co/4FqdGyr

Here, JL entered the multiverse that resides in 6th dimension without any ill effect
https://ibb.co/Q94Bzbx
https://ibb.co/ZLfqQXk

These scans stated WF created the pocket universe, IOW he also created these suns. Unless you want to argue these suns poped from nowhere?
https://ibb.co/q1bRrNM
https://ibb.co/6s3s2wF

Carver trying so hard with so little

Carver is actually right.

Uhuh.

Originally posted by carver9
World Forger was creating a multiverse "after" Superman decked him in the face. Also, we have no clue the properties or how complex this multiverse would've been.

World Forger didn't create the suns, lmao. Also, again, you keep mentioning the place being a trap for Superman, but, Superman only survived there due to Mxy giving him imp energy for YEARS. Without it, he would've died. You're not addressing my statement.
LOL did a new comic come out that only carver got his hands on and no one else? The carvers version of events.

And this is what actually happened. Lmao.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
..........Now Im pretty sure you dont read the story

WF stated he created this multiverse and its only purpose was to replace the existing/original multiverse. Oh, this is a scene that happened before Superman oneshotted WF
https://ibb.co/HCGgfV1
https://ibb.co/2s48rWB
https://ibb.co/rQD3Fb1
https://ibb.co/FX3y0s4
https://ibb.co/vsLzSk1
https://ibb.co/fXmhB5z

And here, It was stated the original/normal multiverse was designed and set in motion in 6th dimension
https://ibb.co/4FqdGyr

Here, JL entered the multiverse that resides in 6th dimension without any ill effect
https://ibb.co/Q94Bzbx
https://ibb.co/ZLfqQXk

These scans stated WF created the pocket universe, IOW he also created these suns. Unless you want to argue these suns poped from nowhere?
https://ibb.co/q1bRrNM
https://ibb.co/6s3s2wF

The new multiverse that WF created in the 6th dimension was meant to be an exact replica of the mainstream 3D multiverse. It was such a perfect duplicate, in fact, that WF would have been able to replace the 3D multiverse with his new multiverse(via the Crisis Anvil) so seamlessly that even the Judges of the Source would have been unaware that the switch had occurred. The fact that WF crafted his new multiverse in a higher plane of reality doesn't change the fact that both multiverses were effectively identical in every cosmological way that matters.

Moreover, the galaxy that WF trapped Superman in was explicitly made to contain him, and keep him in a weakened state... So why in the holy hell would WF put superduper "magical" suns, that could inextricably provide some sort of mega-amp, in a galactic prison that was tailor made to keep Superman depowered?

The reaching here is... Something else.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
..........Now Im pretty sure you dont read the story

WF stated he created this multiverse and its only purpose was to replace the existing/original multiverse. Oh, this is a scene that happened before Superman oneshotted WF
https://ibb.co/HCGgfV1
https://ibb.co/2s48rWB
https://ibb.co/rQD3Fb1
https://ibb.co/FX3y0s4
https://ibb.co/vsLzSk1
https://ibb.co/fXmhB5z

And here, It was stated the original/normal multiverse was designed and set in motion in 6th dimension
https://ibb.co/4FqdGyr

Here, JL entered the multiverse that resides in 6th dimension without any ill effect
https://ibb.co/Q94Bzbx
https://ibb.co/ZLfqQXk

These scans stated WF created the pocket universe, IOW he also created these suns. Unless you want to argue these suns poped from nowhere?
https://ibb.co/q1bRrNM
https://ibb.co/6s3s2wF

WF allowed them to enter that universe...

https://ibb.co/xJH8NfG

World Forger have the power to grant people, even the multiverse he created access to be in the 6th dimension. Without him, no one or nothing can survive there. No one can freely open a portal there and just walk in. This can only be granted by the monitors.

Originally posted by Galan007
The new multiverse that WF created in the 6th dimension was meant to be an exact replica of the mainstream 3D multiverse. It was such a perfect duplicate, in fact, that WF would have been able to replace the 3D multiverse with his new multiverse(via the Crisis Anvil) so seamlessly that even the Judges of the Source would have been unaware that the switch had occurred. The fact that WF crafted his new multiverse in a higher plane of reality doesn't change the fact that both multiverses were effectively identical in every cosmological way that matters.

Moreover, the galaxy that WF trapped Superman in was explicitly made to contain him, and keep him in a weakened state... So why in the holy hell would WF put superduper "magical" suns, that could inextricably provide some sort of mega-amp, in a galactic prison that was tailor made to keep Superman depowered?

The reaching here is... Something else.

I'm saying that the suns can not be called your average sun, even Superman himself hinted at this during his first dip.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CocCQeT1u-4EGx29duyVFMRS-QH4sEm-6sAgy5PPyWviiDny5mclJjOwaikcbk-yny58-nVKHtSkRPwYdg8xJDqNaYrMjx7rviqmwmWiogpeIT-5oHYgM0aujQcpPDKGuzPmLtFBQ=s1600

The properties are just, different because they are not your every day sun. These things were created out of thin air and obviously had some context to them based off of Superman words during the first sun dip.

Originally posted by carver9
WF allowed them to enter that universe...

https://ibb.co/xJH8NfG

World Forger have the power to grant people, even the multiverse he created access to be in the 6th dimension. Without him, no one or nothing can survive there. No one can freely open a portal there and just walk in. This can only be granted by the monitors.
So you just proved objects can/did enter the 6th dimension if WF allows to. IOW, WF can allow normal suns to exist in 6th dimension if he wants to LMAO

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So you just proved objects can/did enter the 6th dimension if WF allows to. IOW, WF can allow normal suns to exist in 6th dimension if he wants to LMAO

He didn't allow the suns though, lmao. You mention me not reading the comic but obviously you didn't.

Originally posted by carver9
He didn't allow the suns though, lmao. He didn't create them. You mention me not reading the comic but obviously you didn't.
...What? Even though it specifically stated WF created the prison universe but somehow in your comprehension WF didnt create these suns? Are you trying to argue these suns poped from nowhere lol?
https://ibb.co/q1bRrNM
https://ibb.co/6s3s2wF

We also have the fact, which you just mentioned and it backfired at you, WF can/did grant other objects to enter the 6th dimension
https://ibb.co/xJH8NfG

And yes, You didnt read the story you also dont know what the argument is. Otherwise you wouldnt have posted that scan which actually hurts your argument

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
...What? Even though it specifically stated WF created the prison universe but somehow in your comprehension WF didnt create these suns? Are you trying to argue these suns poped from nowhere lol?
https://ibb.co/q1bRrNM
https://ibb.co/6s3s2wF

We also have the fact, which you just mentioned and it backfired at you, WF can/did grant other objects to enter the 6th dimension
https://ibb.co/xJH8NfG

And yes, You didnt read the story you also dont know what the argument is. Otherwise you wouldnt have posted that scan which actually hurts your argument

No, he created them but he did NOT move them. Also, WF outright admit he writes the rules of this dimension, why in the HECK do you think the rules he writes there would be identical to Supes dimension?

https://ibb.co/sV8Ctnt

People not being able to cross over to that plain is proof that it's different. Mxy not being able to survive there is proof. There's no evidence to suggest Forger using identical rules for the 6th dimension. If anything, the opposite is shown.

You're all over the place. Are you not the same guy who mentioned the JLA being there not understanding WF allowed them to be there?

Originally posted by carver9
I'm saying that the suns can not be called your average sun, even Superman himself hinted at this during his first dip. The properties are just, different because they are not your every day sun. These things were created out of thin air and obviously had some context to them based off of Superman words during the first sun dip. You're digging, carv.

Even when depowered, WF can create universes with a single swing of his hammer "out of thin air":
https://i.ibb.co/2WWw65H/Justice-League-031-005.jpg


That's how he created the 3D multiverse, that's how he created the duplicate/replacement multiverse in the 6th dimension, that's how he populated the Dark Multiverse with fallen universes, etc... That's just how he creates, as designated by Perpetua since his inception:
https://i.ibb.co/KqqRYQ3/Justice-League-2018-022-006.jpg

WF is a high-level cosmic being. Creating out of nothing is what he does. That is his purpose/function.


The narration after Superman's initial dip simply tell us what we already know about his biology: that sun-dipping amps him. While I agree that Supes may have very well been at his most powerful there, I attribute that to: a.) sun-dipping several times, and b.) attacking WF with a new resolve/mindset that he had never tapped-into before:
https://ibb.co/7QP7J5B
https://ibb.co/d4d3kxN
https://ibb.co/yPshbdq

...Certainly not because the suns were magical and amped him to levels beyond what "normal" suns would have provided. Aside from the fact that this was never implied in the story itself, it also makes no sense at all for reasons I mentioned above: ie. the galaxy that WF trapped Superman in was explicitly made to contain him, and keep him in a weakened state... So why in the holy hell would WF put superduper "magical" suns, that could inextricably provide some sort of mega-amp, in a galactic prison that was tailor made to keep Superman depowered?

Originally posted by carver9
No, he created them but he did NOT move them. Also, WF outright admit he writes the rules of this dimension, why in the HECK do you think the rules he writes there would be identical to Supes dimension?

https://ibb.co/sV8Ctnt

People not being able to cross over to that plain is proof that it's different. Mxy not being able to survive there is proof. There's no evidence to suggest Forger using identical rules for the 6th dimension. If anything, the opposite is shown.

You're all over the place. Are you not the same guy who mentioned the JLA being there not understanding WF allowed them to be there?
So moving these suns somehow made these suns become some supersuns that can mega amp Superman?

First of all, WF wrote the reality/duplicated multiverse rules. Not the 6th dimension.

Second, Even if we assume it is true, Why in HECK WF would want to put/create/write these suns to be able to mega-amp Superman? Given the fact that WF absolutely didnt want Superman to leave this universe/ to fight him/ to beat him. The pocket universe was tailor made for imprisoning/depowering Superman. Like I and Galan said
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

-WF created that universe to trap Superman because he absolutely didnt want Superman to fight/beat him--IOW, There is no logical reason for WF somehow deciding to create suns that could amp Superman far greater than normal suns do. The opposite that these suns were amping him less than normal suns should be more likely, If anything
Originally posted by Galan007

Moreover, the galaxy that WF trapped Superman in was explicitly made to contain him, and keep him in a weakened state... So why in the holy hell would WF put superduper "magical" suns, that could inextricably provide some sort of mega-amp, in a galactic prison that was tailor made to keep Superman depowered?

The reaching here is... Something else.

And thanks to you we all know that Superman needing mxy's 5th energy to enter the 6th dimension has nothing to do with suns being able to exist in 6th dimension, Since WF can/did grant other normal objects to enter that dimension.
https://ibb.co/xJH8NfG

So like I said, You didnt read the story you also dont know what is being argued. You pointed/posted a scan that supports my argument and hurts yours

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So moving these suns somehow made these suns become some supersuns that can mega amp Superman?

First of all, WF wrote the reality/duplicated multiverse rules. Not the 6th dimension.

Second, Even if we assume it is true, Why in HECK WF would want to put/create/write these suns to be able to mega-amp Superman? Given the fact that WF absolutely didnt want Superman to leave this universe/ to fight him/ to beat him. The pocket universe was tailor made for imprisoning/depowering Superman. Like I and Galan said



And thanks to you we all know that Superman needing mxy's 5th energy to enter the 6th dimension has nothing to do with suns being able to exist in 6th dimension, Since WF can/did grant other normal objects to enter that dimension.
https://ibb.co/xJH8NfG

Who said he created these suns mainly for Superman? I'm telling you that the rules, everything there is not identical to the universe Supes and the JLA are familiar with. Even Superman admits this "the 6th dimension exist beyond imagination, beyond UNDERSTANDING".

https://ibb.co/rcqWnCj

I get what you and Galan are trying to say here but I don't think you all are understanding the point. The things WF created in the 6th dimension were based off of how HE wanted them to be. I see no reason for him to make anything inferior to anything outside of the 6th dimension. Proof of this is the multiverse he wanted to create that he signatured as being the best multiverse. The JLA he created that he outright said was better than the true JLA and the suns he created that Superman first dip into took him from near death to MORE than whole. I think once you all understand what I'm saying here, it would clear things up Mr. "How did the JLA survive in the dimension" not realizing WF gave them access.

Originally posted by carver9
Who said he created these suns mainly for Superman? I'm telling you that the rules, everything there is not identical to the universe Supes and the JLA are familiar with. Even Superman admits this "the 6th dimension exist beyond imagination, beyond UNDERSTANDING".

https://ibb.co/sV8Ctnt

I get what you and Galan are trying to say here but I don't think you all are understanding the point. The things WF created in the 6th dimension were based off of how HE wanted them to be. I see no reason for him to make anything inferior to anything outside of the 6th dimension. Proof of this is the multiverse he wanted to created that he signatured as being the best multiverse. The JLA he created that he outright said was better than the true JLA and the suns he created that Superman first dip into took him from near death to MORE than whole. I think once you all understand what I'm saying here, it would clear things up Mr. "How did the JLA survive in the dimension" not realizing WF gave them access.
facepalm
Do you realize what you just posted? I mean do you actually truly meant what you just typed

WF, Who wrote every rule in that reality/what he created
https://ibb.co/sV8Ctnt

WF, Who absolutely didnt want Superman to leave the pocket universe and fight him
https://ibb.co/q1bRrNM
https://ibb.co/6s3s2wF

But somehow this guy decided "Hey, I want to put supersuns that can mega-amp Superman thus giving him the chance to phuck my ass. Despite I absolutely didn't want that to happen". Because what? Nostalgia? Carvirus?

And the beyond understanding part doesnt matter a bit since you idiotically helped my argument

Here, This is the post that I brought up JL case, To prove that normal objects can/did enter the 6th dimension
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

-JL also entered the multiverse that resided in 6th dimension without dying--Again, Proved that normal objects can/did exist in 6th dimension, Unless you want to argue
And you idiotically pointed out that normal objects can/did enter the 6th dimension if WF allows them. IOW, Normal suns also can be existing in 6th dimension without being more complex than 3rd dimension' suns If WF wants so
Originally posted by carver9
WF allowed them to enter that universe...

https://ibb.co/xJH8NfG

World Forger have the power to grant people, even the multiverse he created access to be in the 6th dimension. Without him, no one or nothing can survive there. No one can freely open a portal there and just walk in. This can only be granted by the monitors.
Again, Let me emphasize, You just unintentionally gave proof for my original point: Normal objects can/did the 6th dimension

Originally posted by carver9
The things WF created in the 6th dimension were based off of how HE wanted them to be. I see no reason for him to make anything inferior to anything outside of the 6th dimension. Proof of this is the multiverse he wanted to create that he signatured as being the best multiverse. The JLA he created that he outright said was better than the true JLA and the suns he created that Superman first dip into took him from near death to MORE than whole. Right, and WF wanted his new multiverse to be a perfect replica of the 3D multiverse, so that he could replace said cosmologies without the Judges of the Source becoming aware of the switch. That's how identical the multiverses were from a cosmological standpoint -- not even *the* most powerful beings in DC would have known what happened.

I say again carv: what indication do we have that the suns WF placed in Superman's prison galaxy were "magical" and mega-amped him to levels beyond what could be achieved by dipping in normal suns? Additionally why would WF put super-duper suns like that in a place that was explicitly created to keep Superman trapped and weakened? Can you not see why that is a bit silly?

Yes, Superman was indeed "more than whole" after sun-dipping... Because it is a known fact that sun-dipping amps him(Kryptonian biology and all that.) Magical super-suns aren't a prerequisite for that kind of amp.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
facepalm
Do you realize what you just posted? I mean do you actually truly meant what you just typed

WF, Who wrote every rule in that reality/what he created
https://ibb.co/sV8Ctnt

WF, Who absolutely didnt want Superman to leave the pocket universe and fight him
https://ibb.co/q1bRrNM
https://ibb.co/6s3s2wF

But somehow this guy decided "Hey, I want to put supersuns that can mega-amp Superman thus giving him the chance to phuck my ass. Despite I absolutely didn't want that to happen". Because what? Nostalgia? Carvirus?

And the beyond understanding part doesnt matter a bit since you idiotically helped my argument

Here, This is the post that I brought up JL case, To prove that normal objects can/did enter the 6th dimension

And you idiotically pointed out that normal objects can/did enter the 6th dimension if WF allows them. IOW, Normal suns also can be existing in 6th dimension without being more complex than 3rd dimension' suns If WF wants so

You're not making one bit of sense. The JLA came to the 6th dimension because WF opened a portal for their signature and made it possible for them to walk in with no issues. The suns were already in the 6th dimension, created by WF in that dimension. How are you not grasping the difference here? Why don't you understand? Is the 6th dimension beyond understanding and imagination, yes or no?

Originally posted by carver9
You're not making one bit of sense. The JLA came to the 6th dimension because WF opened a portal for their signature and made it possible for them to walk in with no issues. The suns were already in the 6th dimension, created by WF in that dimension. How are you not grasping the difference here? Why don't you understand? Is the 6th dimension beyond understanding and imagination, yes or no?
The 6th dimension beyond understanding and imagination, Doesnt mean the suns existed in there were also beyond understanding and imagination. Since the JL also did enter and exist in there when they were granted by WF. IOW, Normal suns can be there if WF wants so. All WF needs to do just what he did to JL. And WF specifically created that pocket universe to trap Superman

Thus it is your burden to prove they are not normal suns, You need to prove the negative, Not us. Since we already proved normal things can exist in there

Originally posted by Galan007
Right, and WF wanted his new multiverse to be a perfect replica of the 3D multiverse, so that he could replace said cosmologies without the Judges of the Source becoming aware of the switch. That's how identical the multiverses were from a cosmological standpoint -- not even *the* most powerful beings in DC would have known what happened.

I say again carv: what indication do we have that the suns WF placed in Superman's prison galaxy were "magical" and mega-amped him to levels beyond what could be achieved by dipping in normal suns? Additionally why would WF put super-duper suns like that in a place that was explicitly created to keep Superman trapped and weakened? Can you not see why that is a bit silly?

Yes, Superman was indeed "more than whole" after sun-dipping... Because it is a known fact that sun-dipping amps him(Kryptonian biology and all that.) Magical super-suns aren't a prerequisite for that kind of amp.


What do you mean? WF outright say there isn't enough light in this dimension to give him energy and that his powers were already fading. The small suns were at a distance to where they did absolutely nothing for him. Also, this scan is more proof of what I was saying. WF didnt reference his garden for Superman as just an average garden, he referenced it as a COSMIC garden.

https://ibb.co/rcqWnCj

I posted a scan already mentioning things are different there. I don't know what else you all want, lol.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
The 6th dimension beyond understanding and imagination, Doesnt mean the suns existed in there were also beyond understanding and imagination. Since the JL also did enter and exist in there when they were granted by WF. IOW, Normal suns can be there if WF wants so. All WF needs to do just what he did to JL. And WF specifically created that pocket universe to trap Superman

Thus it is your burden to prove they are not normal suns, You need to prove the negative, Not us. Since we already proved normal things can exist in there

He said the 6th dimension is beyond understanding and imagination, he didn't say SOME of the things in the 6th dimension is beyond understanding.

Sigh, everything WF created wasn't normal. Everything was amplified. His garden, his JLA, his multiverse. Everything. He believed in making perfection, don't know why you think he didn't do the same for the suns he created.

Originally posted by carver9
He said the 6th dimension is beyond understanding and imagination, he didn't say SOME of the things in the 6th dimension is beyond understanding.

Sigh, everything WF created wasn't normal. Everything was amplified. His garden, his JLA, his multiverse. Everything. He believed in making perfection, don't know why you think he didn't do the same for the suns he created.
So you want to argue JL are beyond understanding and imagination? Since they were also in there when WF allowed them

Because WF specifically didnt want Superman to leave?

Because the sole purpose for WF creating that galaxy was to trap Superman?

Because WF absolutely didnt want Superman to beat him?

And also like you posted, WF wrote every rule in his creation, Thus he definitely knew what he was doing when he was creating these suns?

Things are different =things are amped, for carver.
The Dark Dimension is weaker =/= the dark Dimension is weaker.

Lol.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So you want to argue JL are beyond understanding and imagination? Since they were also in there when WF allowed them

Because WF specifically didnt want Superman to leave?

Because the sole purpose for WF creating that galaxy was to trap Superman?

Because WF absolutely didnt want Superman to beat him?

And also like you posted, WF wrote every rule in his creation, Thus he definitely knew what he was doing when he was creating these suns?

Was the JLA created in the 6th dimension? If so, yes, they are above understanding and imagination (this is sad).

Yep, he didn't want Superman to leave which is the reason he gave him enough light to live but not enough to leave.

Yep, he trapped Superman, and...

Yep, he didn't want Superman to beat him. Trying to understand your point.

Yes, he knew what he was doing. WF, the person who likes to create perfection created suns in the 6th dimension. Suns he was worried about which is the reason he asked Batman to move them...🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

https://ibb.co/rwS3gC5

Save all this.

Next time Carv argues WF has no feats, just throw back that he's apparently beyond understanding and imagination lmao.

Originally posted by carver9
Was the JLA created in the 6th dimension? If so, yes, they are above understanding and imagination (this is sad).

Yep, he didn't want Superman to leave which is the reason he gave him enough light to live but not enough to leave.

Yep, he trapped Superman, and...

Yep, he didn't want Superman to beat him. Trying to understand your point.

Yes, he knew what he was doing. WF, the person who likes to create perfection created suns in the 6th dimension. Suns he was worried about which is the reason he asked Batman to move them...🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

https://ibb.co/rwS3gC5
Was the duplicate multiverse created in the 6th dimension? Also dont forget normal multiverse also was designed in there lol
https://ibb.co/4FqdGyr
https://ibb.co/PTKS71j

Shit, So you actually want to argue WF intentionally created some supersuns that can mega-amp Superman. Despite you conceded that universe was meant to depower/imprison Superman?

Also, He asked Batman to move these suns because he wanted Batman to choose sides and he was worrying about Superman fighting him , Which is an indication how powerful Superman is, Not because these were some supersuns
https://ibb.co/6s3s2wF
https://ibb.co/09kvcJ4

I proved my point and this conversation is over. It was fun

"It's just my opinion, we can agree to disagree".

*Two months later*

Originally posted by carver9
I proved my point and this conversation is over. It was fun

Supes watches in horror as hulk eats all his comrades and is forced to sundip..

I know carv has already ended this convo, because he basically won, but...

Originally posted by carver9
What do you mean? WF outright say there isn't enough light in this dimension to give him energy and that his powers were already fading. The small suns were at a distance to where they did absolutely nothing for him. Uhuh. And WF also knew that it was possible for Superman to escape:
https://i.ibb.co/Lr7F1NG/Justice-League-2018-023-011.jpg

So again: why would he intentionally place magical supersuns in there? What legitimate reason do we have to believe this was the case?

Originally posted by carver9
Also, this scan is more proof of what I was saying. WF didnt reference his garden for Superman as just an average garden, he referenced it as a COSMIC garden.

https://ibb.co/rcqWnCj I think you meant to post this scan:
https://ibb.co/yyNJ01T

How does WF creating a "cosmic garden" on the planet Superman was imprisoned on, translate to: "the suns that Superman amped on were actually magical and provided an amp that was way beyond what he could have attained with 'normal' suns"..?

Originally posted by carver9
I posted a scan already mentioning things are different there. I don't know what else you all want, lol. Things are indeed 'different' in the 6th dimension itself.

However, the burden of proof falls on you to prove that WF's creations within the 6th dimension were wildly different from what we see in the 3rd dimension(from a cosmological standpoint.)

As mentioned several times already: even though WF created his multiverse within the 6th dimension, it was still an exact replica of the 3D multiverse... Yet you'd have been believe that Superman's prison galaxy must've contained these exotic, hyper-amping supersuns that were vastly different than normal suns... cuz 6th dimension? Lol, kay.

Originally posted by Galan007
different than normal suns... cuz 6th dimension? Lol, kay. https://i.ibb.co/S54xMT2/Carver-Fat-Lips-Retard.png

Why is carver, of the clan McLips, cock-chi absorbers, 8th of his kind, ever taken seriously, would have to be my question.

The only reason anybody should ever engage him is for humiliation.

Clearly magical, 6th dimensional hydrogen/helium-based suns, though.

Imagine how powerful Superman would become on non-magical suns.

Beastly, you might say.

Powerful enough to one-punch WF, I'd say.

Jesus Christ!! The Sun's gave him more power than he ever had from normal Suns. The 6th dimension is the HIGHEST dimension. It is even mentioned that Super flew faster than he ever has. Superman knew this and so did batman, that's why multiple suns where place before him to power him up. Superman said he wanted more power and those multiple Suns gave it to him. The sixth dimension is where impossible things can happen. The writer who came up with the sixth dimension explained that in an interview. Smh.

you and carver are an interesting breed of troll. sloppy and lazy.

superman became stronger then ever because he flew through a bunch of suns back to back, which he has never done before. where is it stated on the pages of a comic book that they were more then just your standard healthy suns?

i say this knowing that you two cannot provide any sort of logical answer, but i have nothing else going on tonight.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
you and carver are an interesting breed of troll. sloppy and lazy.

superman became stronger then ever because he flew through a bunch of suns back to back, which he has never done before. where is it stated on the pages of a comic book that they were more then just your standard healthy suns?

i say this knowing that you two cannot provide any sort of logical answer, but i have nothing else going on tonight. Learn how to comprehend writers intent before running your mouth. Those are six dimensional suns, far different from normal Suns. Things work differently in the sixth dimension. Superman can power up in a normal sun and not need to fly through multiple suns, Yet in the sixth dimension, those suns had a different power up effect, that's why he was able to fly far faster than he ever did with a Normal earth sun. Those suns may look like Earth's sun, but they are different because of where they are at. Just like Superman is NOT from our solar system, but looks and act just like a regular human all the way down to red blood, BUT HIS BODY TREATS SUN RADIATION DIFFERENT FROM A NORMAL HUMAN.