Nick Gilliard: "Palpatine could have creamed [Windu] every time"

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xPRIMEx
Anyone see this interview? At 22:55 Gilliard says that Palpatine threw the fight and that he could have creamed Mace:
https://youtu.be/WPcAJcvITqc

xPRIMEx

Darth Thor
Nice

Good find Prime

Eli Vanto
This is a good find indeed, but does Gillard's word hold any weight in new canon? He did make it a point to say "at the time" (meaning he was talking about when the film was originally made and the intent back then)

Not that I have a problem with Sidious > Mace, because I've always found it odd to think that he could do what even Yoda could not. Just curious.

Sheev
No it does not. Lucas himself cannot alter new canon.

But Gillard's opinion there could certainly be a game changer on the Legends front.

Darth Thor
It just gives us more insight to the intentions behind the scene/fight at the time. Which is kinda important tbh. Directors intentions matter.

Besides I dont recall Disney canon contradicting that. If anything Disney have trebled down on Sheev being OP.

Galan007
Yeah, canon has left the Mace/Palpatine battle ambiguous. Maybe Palpatine intentionally threw the fight; maybe Mace legitimately beat him... We don't really know one way or the other.

So even though Gillard's opinion may not hold much canonical authority, it doesn't really contradict anything, either.

xPRIMEx

xPRIMEx

Darth Thor

xPRIMEx
Lol I know right

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Anyone see this interview? At 22:55 Gilliard says that Palpatine ...could have creamed Mace:
Oh f*ck yeah, that's the leaked video I wanna see on Liveleak.

Eli Vanto

Tzeentch
Doesn't this clash with Lucas' own statements about Mace vs Palpatine?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

relentless1
its been clear from the get that Sidious was faking the whole thing lol nice to see it acknowledged in canon finally

Darth Thor
Originally posted by relentless1
its been clear from the get that Sidious was faking the whole thing lol nice to see it acknowledged in canon finally


Tbf confusion was always down to mixed messages.

1)Lucas says Mace overpowers Sidious in the saber battle but then Sidious feigns weakness in the Force.

2)Lucas says You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Sidious.

3)Heck even Gillard ranked both Mace and Sidious on the same level in Sabers.

4) But then both Ian McDiarmid and Nick Gillard seemed to be under the impression that Sidious threw the fight.

5) And TCW shows Sidious carries two sabers so losing one shouldnt have left him saberless anyway.

6) Everyone (Lucas, Filoni, Gillard, Jackson) always gave the impression Mace was 2nd to Yoda in combat. Yoda who couldnt beat Sidious.

So guess it was Disneys tie to break.

Galan007

Tzeentch
Glad Disney has decided to double down on Palpatine being a boring invincible villain-sue. thumb up I preferred the notion that despite all his cunning and strategy, actually fighting Mace and Yoda in single combat was the closest Sidious came to being foiled, and even his prescience wasn't able to determine the outcomes of those fights. Buuuut I guess "muahaha losing was part of my plan all along" is just as good. How dull.

Sheev
With how Disney has doubled down on wanking the absolute shit out of Vader, yet still going out of their way to show us that he is still less than nothing to Sidious, it really doesn't surprise me to learn that he was toying with Mace.

It also cements Yoda's status as the Jedi's #1 swordsman during the PT..... By a lot.

Eli Vanto
Originally posted by Sheev
With how Disney has doubled down on wanking the absolute shit out of Vader, yet still going out of their way to show us that he is still less than nothing to Sidious, it really doesn't surprise me to learn that he was toying with Mace.

It also cements Yoda's status as the Jedi's #1 swordsman during the PT..... By a lot. It's how it should be. Mace couldnt even gain clear superiority over Dooku, so he definitely shouldn't be a threat to Sidious.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Eli Vanto
It's how it should be. Mace couldnt even gain clear superiority over Dooku, so he definitely shouldn't be a threat to Sidious.


Yeah Mace legit beating Palpatine hasnt made sense to me since TCW S6 when Palpatine casually choked out Dooku.

And I never really bought the Dooku defence that he was caught off guard or wouldnt fight back.

Galan007
Mace matching(or even besting) Palpatine in sabers made more sense when the 'meta' aspect of Vaapad was still a thing, because that's what helped bridge the gap in power/skill between them.

But in canon, Vaapad is just a Juyo variant with no deeper esoteric qualities that have been alluded to. So the revelation that Palpatine was indeed toying with Mace isn't overly surprising. As mentioned by others: canon has consistently portrayed Palpatine as a god amongst insects. Like it or not, that's just how it seems to be. /shrug

NemeBro
Originally posted by Tzeentch
Glad Disney has decided to double down on Palpatine being a boring invincible villain-sue. thumb up I preferred the notion that despite all his cunning and strategy, actually fighting Mace and Yoda in single combat was the closest Sidious came to being foiled, and even his prescience wasn't able to determine the outcomes of those fights. Buuuut I guess "muahaha losing was part of my plan all along" is just as good. How dull. Star Wars has never been well-written. It has always been a black and white children's story with no room for ambiguities or nuance. thumb up

McP
Was it anything said about Count Dooku in that video?

Bentley
I think the important lesson to take from this development is that Windu has no feats over Dooku when it comes to sabers now shifty

McP
^
Not sure about sabers. But anyway, due to his fight with Sidious Windu was often considered as Dooku's superior in the Force. Like stronger guard in the Force etc. It seems to be like joke right now. Good.

Darth Thor
Well there is the canon comic they fought in. Fight seemed pretty even until Dooku ran.

McP
^
Canon? I thought it was in Legends, last chapter of "Obsession". Is there another duel in shitsney canon?

Darth Thor
Originally posted by McP
^
Canon? I thought it was in Legends, last chapter of "Obsession". Is there another duel in shitsney canon?


Yeah theres a Disney one. Sort of recent, like within the last year I think. But I dont have it so someone else will have to post it.


Edit: It’s here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=677698&pagenumber=1

McP
Okey, thanks mate. Well, kinda like in Obsession. But with succesful Force push for each. They seems to be equals.

Darth Thor
^ Id say difference was he seems to concede in this one. The Obsession one just seemed like he wasnt interested in a long drawn out fight to see whose better on a planet swarming with Jedi and Clone Troopers.

Tzeentch
"I'm sure you would" is not a concession.

Darth Thor
On its own? Sure. But doesnt look good when you run away right after.

Tzeentch
The bad guys run away at the end of every fight pre-RotS.

McP
Dooku is just far more valueable tbh. Mace is one of 12 member of the Council and one of thousands jedi.
Dooku is - at the moment - one of two Sith Lords and head of CIS. He still has his ego, he might be interested in killing Windu - just for himself. But when fight is closer then he thougts, he leaves. Much in Dookus characer.

Darth Thor
If he doesnt want to risk his life against an equal or near equal then that is a form of concession. He forfeits because hes not confident enough of winning.

Certainly hard to put Dooku > Mace from that.

Anyway if they are equals thats fine with me as it would put ROTS Anakin above Mace. Heck it would put TCW Anakin equal to Windu.

McP
Fine for me as well. I've always considered them as equals, both superior to Kenobi, both inferior to Skywalker.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Tzeentch
Glad Disney has decided to double down on Palpatine being a boring invincible villain-sue. thumb up I preferred the notion that despite all his cunning and strategy, actually fighting Mace and Yoda in single combat was the closest Sidious came to being foiled, and even his prescience wasn't able to determine the outcomes of those fights. Buuuut I guess "muahaha losing was part of my plan all along" is just as good. How dull.

Yay for revisionism. GL stated that Mace actually won, and noted that Mace was one of a mere handful of people who could tangle with the Emperor in the first place.

Nick Gillard is a tool and he's been a canon headache for decades now, between this and his stupid power chart. This is the guy responsible for the glowstick rave combat sequence where Anakin and Obi-Wan trade missing blows at point blank range without moving their feet. GL should have hired a professional.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Tbf confusion was always down to mixed messages.

1)Lucas says Mace overpowers Sidious in the saber battle but then Sidious feigns weakness in the Force.

2)Lucas says You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Sidious.

3)Heck even Gillard ranked both Mace and Sidious on the same level in Sabers.

4) But then both Ian McDiarmid and Nick Gillard seemed to be under the impression that Sidious threw the fight.

5) And TCW shows Sidious carries two sabers so losing one shouldnt have left him saberless anyway.

6) Everyone (Lucas, Filoni, Gillard, Jackson) always gave the impression Mace was 2nd to Yoda in combat. Yoda who couldnt beat Sidious.

So guess it was Disneys tie to break.

To clarify, Yoda did beat Sids in sabers. Per the original script (and implied in the movie finished version), Yoda disarmed Sidious entirely. This is supported also by a frame-by-frame watching of the office fight, because Yoda is clearly superior and Sidious is struggling to keep his defenses up, much less get in any actual offensive swings.

I still can't explain how Mace got off an easily-telegraphed front kick and disarmed Sidious. Perhaps the Sheev has butterfingers and was snacking hard before his arrest crew came to get him. In any case, it is reasonable to assume during the Force lightning segment that he was playing weak, because he makes a point of whining about it, and it's all about Anakin's presence at that point.

Bottom line, Mace is firmly on Sidious' level if not above based on movie feats alone. I'd be highly suspicious of using a NuCanon encyclopedia which glosses over events we can actually see and verify, but that's just me. Most SW lore books have always been from in-universe third person narrative and therefore flawed or biased. It would surprise me if this book is written differently.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
It's how it should be. Mace couldnt even gain clear superiority over Dooku, so he definitely shouldn't be a threat to Sidious.

I mean, Dooku's got the most refined lightsaber fighting form in the PT era, and was trained by Yoda himself. The only reason he's ranked lower in general is because Anakin took him out in Episode III (and IIRC in CW their duels got progressively closer, which makes the dialogue in Episode III make no sense but whatever), not because he's shown to be a non-top tier duelist. His fighting form actually is the least stupid and most effective onscreen and the old Fightsaber article used his AOTC battle specifically to formulate Makashi. It helps that most of his fight scenes were an actual swordmaster with Chris Lee's face painted on via CGI, and therefore he fights more fluidly than everyone else.

When I did a review of his final battle with Anakin and Obi-Wan years ago, I noted that during the entire fight he basically toyed with the Jedi and controlled the engagement, to the point where he could incorporate kicks and TK usage casually and still maintain his defense. Since that battle thematically matches the ROTJ Throne Room fight, and since the original script supported that Dooku was teasing out the dark side in Anakin to turn him, it seems logical to me to assume that Dooku was not going 100% on Anakin. And when Anakin pulled his disarm maneuever, he was genuinely not prepared for it, only to be slain by Sidious' command shortly after.

It is a dumb character moment for the Count, since he should be aware that the Rule of Two is a thing, but that's GL for you. Right up until Anakin did his Limit Break, Dooku was toying hard with both Jedi, and in the past he'd been a league ahead of either. He also put up a better fight against Yoda in AOTC saber-wise than Sids did, although I'd wager Sids is stronger in the Force in general. His lighting is superior and he seems to have power over Dooku that's never quite explained. Even Dark Rendezvous made Dooku scared of Sidious' esoteric Force powers.

Back to the original point, Mace being less effective against Dooku is more reasonable than not. Dooku's the Form II bigwig of the Jedi Order, Mace's senior, and has more lightsaber training and years behind him than Mace or Sidious. Only Yoda can claim more at this rate. Meanwhile, Sidious was somehow a Juyo master by virtue of you know, late night saber practice sessions. We'll ignore that your average Jedi has to go through 10k+ hours of saber training to be considered proficient and assume that full-time senator/Emperor with no superiors to learn from just magically acquired super lightsaber mastery in the 10 hours a week he could book the gym.

Or, we could admit that it's extremely unlikely he has the same level of dedicated training as a Jedi master in the sabers, and it should be his high level of Dark Side Force powers which should set him above them. I mean, if you take away Sids' lightning, he's suddenly a lot less dangerous. Without it, the Senate room fight would have gone against him. And without it, he couldn't have held Mace off long enough to turn Anakin. He couldn't have subdued Luke in seconds. And he certainly wouldn't be Juyo'ing the Rebel fleet above Exegol later on.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'd be highly suspicious of using a NuCanon encyclopedia which glosses over events we can actually see and verify, but that's just me. Most SW lore books have always been from in-universe third person narrative and therefore flawed or biased. It would surprise me if this book is written differently.




That's a good point.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Darth Thor
That's a good point.

It's come up in the past. Sourcebooks or encyclopedias with grand claims, end up being written from the POV of some in-universe historian or such, which makes all claims subject to bias, assumptions, and incomplete knowledge.

NewGuy01

Tzeentch
Originally posted by Darth Thor
If he doesnt want to risk his life against an equal or near equal then that is a form of concession. He forfeits because hes not confident enough of winning.

Certainly hard to put Dooku > Mace from that.

Anyway if they are equals thats fine with me as it would put ROTS Anakin above Mace. Heck it would put TCW Anakin equal to Windu. I really don't understand why you're not appreciating that time was against Dooku in this situation.

If Dooku was more powerful than Mace and could defeat him with 5 more minutes of dueling time, he still would have had to flee as he didn't have 5 more minutes.

Your argument here literally boils down to "if Dooku was stronger than he would have stayed", which ignores every other strategic factor in this situation. Do you not understand the difference between a tactical victory vs a strategic one?

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Tzeentch
I really don't understand why you're not appreciating that time was against Dooku in this situation.

If Dooku was more powerful than Mace and could defeat him with 5 more minutes of dueling time, he still would have had to flee as he didn't have 5 more minutes.

Your argument here literally boils down to "if Dooku was stronger than he would have stayed", which ignores every other strategic factor in this situation. Do you not understand the difference between a tactical victory vs a strategic one?



I understand you seem to just be saying things without anything to back it up.

Name every other supposed strategic situation which suddenly meant Dooku had to leave mid fight. Conveniently after Windu gives him a chance to surrender and threatens him otherwise.

If not then quit pretending theres any obvious in our face reason why Dooku fled. Instead accept that its merely a possibility it was a strategic retreat.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Bentley
I think the important lesson to take from this development is that Windu has no feats over Dooku when it comes to sabers now shifty
GIllard still states mace is an 8 bordering 9 while dooku is merely an 8.

and disney canon still has an abundance of quotes putting him on a similar playing field to yoda.

Stealth Moose

JediMaster97
While it feels kind of nonsensical to revisit this over a decade old debate - especially since, apparently, we now have that recent canon quote that explicitly claims that Sidious was toying with Mace - there is still something interesting people seem to have missed.

As others have said, even the novel, which at this point probably isn't even canon anymore, is kind of vague when it comes to this fight.

But there is this one moment from the fight that I recently (re)discovered:"His instant's distraction cost him: a dark surge of the Force nearly blew him right out of the gap he had just cut. Only a desperate Force-push of his own altered his path enough that he slammed into a stanchion instead of plunging half a kilometer from the ledge outside."

Maybe I'm mistaken, but to me it seems like Plapatine was trying to force push Windu out of the shattered window and Mace barely avoided it by doing a force push himself.

Doesn't this imply that Palpatine was actually trying to kill Mace?

I know this is outdated and completely different than what actually happens in the movie anyway. But since we're bringing up old quotes, I though this might be interesting to share.

Tzeentch
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I understand you seem to just be saying things without anything to back it up.What is there for me to back up? You're making the positive claim assertion that Mace is stronger than Dooku based off things said and done in this fight. My response is that your evidence is nothing more than an inference.


- Dooku is a more important asset to the CIS than Mace is to the Republic Army, ergo losing Dooku or trading 1 for 1 is a strategic victory for the Republic
- Dooku does not know if/when Clone reinforcements will arrive
- The solar eclipse that allowed the ghosts to exist on the surface passed seconds after Dooku left (you almost certainly didn't actually read the entire issue), meaning Dooku was losing his tactical advantage over the Clone army

It being "merely a possibility" supports my argument more than it supports yours, so thank you for agreeing with me I guess?

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by JediMaster97
While it feels kind of nonsensical to revisit this over a decade old debate - especially since, apparently, we now have that recent canon quote that explicitly claims that Sidious was toying with Mace - there is still something interesting people seem to have missed.

As others have said, even the novel, which at this point probably isn't even canon anymore, is kind of vague when it comes to this fight.

But there is this one moment from the fight that I recently (re)discovered:"His instant's distraction cost him: a dark surge of the Force nearly blew him right out of the gap he had just cut. Only a desperate Force-push of his own altered his path enough that he slammed into a stanchion instead of plunging half a kilometer from the ledge outside."

Maybe I'm mistaken, but to me it seems like Plapatine was trying to force push Windu out of the shattered window and Mace barely avoided it by doing a force push himself.

Doesn't this imply that Palpatine was actually trying to kill Mace?

I know this is outdated and completely different than what actually happens in the movie anyway. But since we're bringing up old quotes, I though this might be interesting to share.

I mean, if it's novelization content, again, I'd take it with a large grain of salt. We don't see any TK on behalf of Windu in the final film edit, so it seems unlikely that such TK occurred. It is shameful that GL's final vision of the fight was lackluster and kind of slow because he wanted to use the real actors instead of doing what he did with Dooku (painting their faces on far better fighters). There's some shots where it's clearly stand-ins or CGI (Sids leaping IIRC) but the fight has no real meat to it, and Force powers don't come into play until Sidious pulls out his lightning card. I think this is part of why it's so ambiguous, because it's badly shot and you can't easily tell who's better as a result.

If the concept is that Sidious planned the whole thing and knew Anakin would come, so he decided to lose the fight, it's one hell of an asspull. But then again a lot of movie-Sids' cunning comes from other people in the plot doing dumb shit and then he goes "I HAVE FORSEEN THIS BRUH" after the fact. Sids had no contingency plan if Skywalker turned on him, or Mace took him out before Skywalker got there. If Kit Fisto was a secret badass, or the other Jedi Masters didn't huddle up in the door. Maybe if they decided to amass more knights before they attacked, or went to the police instead. Hey, maybe if they just remotely looked at the camera in his office, or planted a wire on Anakin.

And it goes on and on. IF the assumption is that Sidious planned to throw the fight so he could press Skywalker's guilt button and win somehow, THEN it stands to reason it's utter contrived shit and doesn't make sense. It also doesn't conclusively prove that he would have won either, and I'd argue it's extremely implausible for him to have a greater understanding of lightsaber fighting than the second-in-command of the Order who invented the first new saber style (Vaapad, based on the complex Juyo form which itself borrows from many other forms) in centuries.

Dominis
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
1. GL is however in a position of canon authority.

GL never contradicted that Sidious may have threw the fight tho. In fact, he kinda implies it when he says Sidious pretends to be weak and lose his powers the moment Anakin walks in. And from the movie alone, it's made clear that Sidious always planned on Anakin showing up, hence his line "if the jedi destroy me, any chance of saving Padme will be lost."

If Sidious felt that he needed Anakin's help from the beginning and couldn't defeat Mace on his own, why would he sit there by himself so relaxed waiting on Mace and the jedi to show up? Why would he even convince Anakin to go tell Mace, knowing it would lead Mace right to him? That would make less sense.

Initially, it does seem that GL was going to make Windu legitimately win the fight (I'm guessing because of Samuel L. Jackson's demands to not go out like a punk, not necessarily because GL meant for Sidious to be some mid-tier fighter who has to rely mostly on manipulation), but in the commentary he explains how he changed the context to that scene, and made it more of a situation Sidious manipulated in order to force Anakin's hand. At least that's how many of us interpreted Lucas's commentary. Now it seems that we have a source which confirms that's exactly what Sidious did.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
when the pod rises, and Sidious has less room to work with, Yoda is still hammering him from various angles. The script notes Sids is unbalanced and loses his saber.


Iirc, the script also says that Yoda left the chancellors podium first, whereas in the movie we see him leaping from it following Sidious right before the hurling of the senate pod sequence. So really, the script doesn't align perfectly with the movie either or Yoda should have been in Palpatine's position having the high ground.


Originally posted by Stealth Moose
And that's ignoring the Force battle, where at no point does Sids overpower Yoda, but the poor guy loses do to a ring out.


There are two times in their fight where Sidious could have killed Yoda had he not stopped his attacks to laugh taunt and gloat. The first is when he KO'd Yoda with lightning, the second is when he stopped throwing numerous senate pods to laugh as Yoda was preparing to throw the one.

Not to mention, if your opinion that the anti-gravs on the pods were on is true, then that would make Sidious look even more superior in the force than Yoda than he already does. Even if gravity is not applied to an object, in order to move it, it would still require a force greater than the object's mass (unless you think ships in space are light and you'd be able to push them with your body?), and Sidious wasn't just moving the senate pods, he was literally ragdolling them with such force that they were shattering on impact, WITHOUT the force of gravity to aid him. Yoda, on the other hand, required far more effort with just one (remember if the anti gravs were on, then gravity wasn't working against Yoda while throwing it in an upward direction, so it'd require the same amount of force to throw upward as it would be to throw downward, and yet Sidious was throwing several far faster than Yoda managed to throw one.)

The anti gravs being turned on also does not mean Sidious was using controls to move them. The movie shows sparks when being ripped from their restraints, suggesting force. Sidious also aims the pods in the direction of his hands, suggesting a force throw, he's not focusing on some controls.

Trocity
People think he was manipulating the controls of the pods to move them? LOL.

No bias there.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Tzeentch
What is there for me to back up? You're making the positive claim assertion that Mace is stronger than Dooku based off things said and done in this fight. My response is that your evidence is nothing more than an inference.


No I didn't. I said Dooku "seemed" to concede. But they seemed even before then.

English is your friend.


Originally posted by Tzeentch
- Dooku is a more important asset to the CIS than Mace is to the Republic Army, ergo losing Dooku or trading 1 for 1 is a strategic victory for the Republic
- Dooku does not know if/when Clone reinforcements will arrive
- The solar eclipse that allowed the ghosts to exist on the surface passed seconds after Dooku left (you almost certainly didn't actually read the entire issue), meaning Dooku was losing his tactical advantage over the Clone army


First 2 points are way too general.

Third point may be valid, but not as obvious as you've made out. That said he also had his droid forces there.


Originally posted by Tzeentch
It being "merely a possibility" supports my argument more than it supports yours, so thank you for agreeing with me I guess?

It does nothing to negate my initial point, which was they seemed even until Dooku ran/seemed to concede. You're really arguing for no apparent reason here.


Anyway I just noticed in the dialogue Dooku states "Unfortunately" implying he would have liked to stay and fight. So I have no reason to further argue this. Still I'd suggest you were way too argumentative over my initial assertion which I still think was completely reasonable.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Trocity
People think he was manipulating the controls of the pods to move them? LOL.

No bias there.

It's in the movie. The sounds activate when he's moving the pods, same as when the pods move around the senate chamber during hearings. Also, he did not even try to block/stop the upwards slow moving pod Yoda threw later in the fight.

This calls his ability to do it legitimately into question. Assuming this is bias is some pretty critical thinking though, congrats.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by NemeBro
Star Wars has never been well-written. It has always been a black and white children's story with no room for ambiguities or nuance. thumb up
A new hope was very well written. Clinic in airtight writing. In reality star wars like every massive fictional property has varied in quality.

juyomaster34
This seems to be the NEW troll.
Aiight,let's get to it.
In my opinion no Palpatine couldn't have creamed Windu everytime.
Windu was the Chosen one to duel Sidious.

He beat Palpatine.
No throwing the fight which is BS,
Toying?! with Windu?! For awhile.
After Sidious couldn't take him down quickly,he had to resort to trickery?!
But he can cream Windu everytime?!(Seriously)???

Sidious had to get serious.
He had to take Windu seriously.
Regardless of what he thought he knew about Vaapad.
The question is did Sidious understand it ?

As for Dooku being superior?
He is not.
There was a new master duelist and a new master of Form VII.

His name is Mace Windu.
Besides his respect and friendship for Dooku he wouldn't kill him.

The sparring between them at that time was just that, sparring.
When they did duel Dooku fled. His Magna guards interfered while he escaped.
Sidious was caught off guard by not only Mace Windu but by Vaapad itself.

Vaapad is not Juyo,they're not the same.
It doesn't have Juyo's weaknesses.
And what does Sidious do regardless of who was coming or present
He resorts to trickery,instead of proving that he could cream Mace every time as y'all claim.
The fact is he couldn't.
Sidious could cream every other Jedi everytime except Windu and Yoda.

Before y'all scream Anakin,
Anakin had a chance to duel Sidious.
Anakin chose cowardice.
He chose to kneel instead killing the very enemy he sworn to destroy.
After that he ends up killing Pademae' anyway and never learned the power to save anyone!!

So out of fear he takes Windu's sword hand while Windu is in mid strike of delivering the killing blow to Palpatine,leaving Windu open for Palpatine's Sith lightning attack.

Fear of Palpatine and fear of loosing Pademae' in which Palpatine put the vision in Anakin's head in order for him to turn.

Palpatine admits this in Rise Of Skywalker,terrible movie but he shows Kylo he was the voices and the visions,this fool was Snoke.
Through trickery Palpatine could cream anyone everytime.
In a straight up lightsaber duel against his match or his mirror,I don't think so.
Palpatine isn't creaming anything.

relentless1
as far as Sidious vs Yoda lets not forget that the terrain HEAVILY favoured Yoda when they were fighting in the little Chancellors podium; Sidious likes to flip and swing large as seen in his duel with Mace as well as the Zabrak brothers... had that fight went down in say, the Geonosian area then it'd be a different fight altogether.

ozz81
Sorry a bit confused by this all : so Sids feigned or pretended to lose against Mace to turn Anakin to dark side or not ?

relentless1
Originally posted by ozz81
Sorry a bit confused by this all : so Sids feigned or pretended to lose against Mace to turn Anakin to dark side or not ?


yes. Palpatine took a dive so he'd look weak and vulnerable to Anakin making him easier to sympathize for and turn Anakin to the dark side

Darth Thor
Originally posted by relentless1
as far as Sidious vs Yoda lets not forget that the terrain HEAVILY favoured Yoda when they were fighting in the little Chancellors podium; Sidious likes to flip and swing large as seen in his duel with Mace as well as the Zabrak brothers... had that fight went down in say, the Geonosian area then it'd be a different fight altogether.


Well thats speculation. But remember it was Palpatines choice to take the fight there.

And if it wasnt then that means Yoda forced him there.

Either way, not the best excuse for Palps.

relentless1
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well thats speculation. But remember it was Palpatines choice to take the fight there.

And if it wasnt then that means Yoda forced him there.

Either way, not the best excuse for Palps.

well we can't quite know for sure how they got onto the podium in the first place but my gut tells me Yoda pushed the fight that way seeing as how Sidioius had already tried to escape right at the start. Yoda had the strategic advantage there ill give him that but it still stands to reason he'd knowingly try to push the fight into an environment that suits him. Fact is that whole arena was advantage Yoda... until it wasn't 🤷🏽

Darth Thor
Originally posted by relentless1
well we can't quite know for sure how they got onto the podium in the first place but my gut tells me Yoda pushed the fight that way seeing as how Sidioius had already tried to escape right at the start. Yoda had the strategic advantage there ill give him that but it still stands to reason he'd knowingly try to push the fight into an environment that suits him. Fact is that whole arena was advantage Yoda... until it wasn't 🤷🏽


Or the open space was better for Sidious because he's better with the Force shrug

But gonna be hard to do acrobatics around Yoda regardless of environment.

Lord Lucien
The powers of CGI puppets are a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... ridiculous looking.

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