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The battle begins within one and only one super giant universe.

BFR is not possible.

Which one of these near omnipotent characters would be the last standing?

Doctor Manhattan
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet
Darkseid (most powerful version)
Elaine Belloc
Beyonder (original power levels)
Molecule Man
Man of Miracles
Decreator
Living Tribunal
Perpetua

Which one takes this?

Probably Elaine Belloc (depends on the version, ofc).

Classic Beyonder > IG, Molecule Man, and LT, so we can count those three out immediately.

De-Creator can be stopped by just slowing his rate of progress to an infinitesimal amount, so he's out too.

By most powerful Darkseid I assume you mean Soulfire? Unless there is a stronger one I don't know of. I don't think he can win.

I actually haven't read recent comics so I don't know much about Perpetua, but I do know about Dr. M's multiversal powerup. But I don't know how powerful they really are.

So it comes down to Dr. M, Elaine, Beyonder, MoM, and Perpetua. And if I absolutely had to guess, I would say Beyonder.

Okay, after doing some research I think I have further narrowed it down to Elaine, Beyonder, and MoM.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Classic Beyonder > IG, Molecule Man, and LT, so we can count those three out immediately.

De-Creator can be stopped by just slowing his rate of progress to an infinitesimal amount, so he's out too.

By most powerful Darkseid I assume you mean Soulfire? Unless there is a stronger one I don't know of. I don't think he can win.

I actually haven't read recent comics so I don't know much about Perpetua, but I do know about Dr. M's multiversal powerup. But I don't know how powerful they really are.

So it comes down to Dr. M, Elaine, Beyonder, MoM, and Perpetua. And if I absolutely had to guess, I would say Beyonder. Originally posted by Endless Mike
Okay, after doing some research I think I have further narrowed it down to Elaine, Beyonder, and MoM.
Beyonder doesn't has feats to contend at that level. He's all hype.

He most certainly loses to Perpetua at full power, forget about Elaine.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Beyonder doesn't has feats to contend at that level. He's all hype.

He most certainly loses to Perpetua at full power, forget about Elaine.

Well I'm going by Pre-Retcon, Secret Wars I and II Beyonder, who scales above LT. So he is a contender.

Unless you want to make the argument that LT back then wasn't as strong as he was later shown/retconned to be.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Well I'm going by Pre-Retcon, Secret Wars I and II Beyonder, who scales above LT. So he is a contender.

Unless you want to make the argument that LT back then wasn't as strong as he was later shown/retconned to be.
LT was never as strong as Mr Master would like to believe.

Spectre is more powerful than him by any measure of feats lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
LT was never as strong as Mr Master would like to believe.

Spectre is more powerful than him by any measure of feats lol.

I have always seen LT as stronger than the Source but below the Presence. But perhaps some feats could change my mind on that.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I have always seen LT as stronger than the Source but below the Presence. But perhaps some feats could change my mind on that.
LT has zero feats to suggest he's more powerful than Spectre, forget the Source.

Dazzle us with those LT feats lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
LT has zero feats to suggest he's more powerful than Spectre, forget the Source.

Dazzle us with those LT feats lol.

Well I have said that I haven't been up to date with current Marvel or DC for about 8 years, so I wouldn't know the most modern stuff. I know that the LT was defeated by the Beyonders at one point, but I have yet to read that arc.

Even "classic" LT doesn't has feats to contend. He's basically all statements about hierarchy and stuff. His best feat is repairing some damage by Infinity Gauntlet and that's it.

The only writer to give him so much importance (Starlin) had him getting absorbed by Heart of the universe which was only universal.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Even "classic" LT doesn't has feats to contend. He's basically all statements about hierarchy and stuff. His best feat is repairing some damage by Infinity Gauntlet and that's it.

The only writer to give him so much importance (Starlin) had him getting absorbed by Heart of the universe which was only universal.

I'm fairly sure that was omniversal, as it was above the IG. He also held the two Post-Retcon Amalgam Brothers in his hand, and was once going to replace the 616 universe with the Ultimate Universe, as the 616 universe is the lynchpin of reality. He could make the IG able and unable to function. He's said to exist in all multiverses simultaneously and have the authority to wipe any of them out.

He's usually portrayed as the top tier in the omniverse under TOAA, with only a few rare exceptions.

Anyway I could dig through my old scans but as I said I'm not up to date, and I also don't even really do serious debating anymore. Besides, I need to get to bed. And it's also not like I agree with MrMaster anyway (we had a big debate on how powerful the 'Alien Entity' from Fantastic Four was once).

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I'm fairly sure that was omniversal, as it was above the IG.

Hard to break it to you but IG was only universal.

This is very good and all but holding someone isn't a feat lol.

Show us him wiping out even a universe, forget about a multiverse.

He doesn't even has authority outside main multiverse lol.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Anyway I could dig through my old scans but as I said I'm not up to date, and I also don't even really do serious debating anymore. Besides, I need to get to bed. And it's also not like I agree with MrMaster anyway (we had a big debate on how powerful the 'Alien Entity' from Fantastic Four was once).
Cool

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hard to break it to you but IG was only universal.

I think it was retconned to be at one point but there was still evidence showing it was multiversal. I don't know the current status of the retcons on its power.



Well they each represented at least a multiverse, so it's sort of like holding Eternity, who is the universe.



Here he is considering replacing the 616 Eternity with the Ultimate universe Eternity:

https://i.imgur.com/MkSIoKu.jpg

I think this is still canon.



So this has been retconned then?

https://i.imgur.com/CZVt0wa.jpg

It says he has judgment over all multiverses.

endless mike cosmic knowledge is still stuck from 10 years ago
Elaine is effectively omnipotent, there is no nigh or near, her omnipotence is not lesser than the likes of TOAA, not by a long shot

Then you have a bunch of people who are completely out of their league compare to some others on the list,
like what is LT, IG Thanos and Darkseid doing here lmfao,
it is a stoic thread so I don't expect too much from it

if I have to rank them from most powerful to least

Elaine Belloc
Man of Miracles
Doctor Manhattan--Perpetua (they around same level)
Beyonder (original power levels)
Molecule Man
Living Tribunal
Darkseid (most powerful version)
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet (lol)

Decreator has no notable feat I remember, somebody can clue me in on him, but if I have to guess he be in the bottom of the totem pole as well

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I have always seen LT as stronger than the Source but below the Presence. But perhaps some feats could change my mind on that.

the source and the presence are one and the same under certain writers

LT would be far far below that level, spectre at his most powerful would be a far better comparison, like abhigail said

Originally posted by abhilegend
Beyonder doesn't has feats to contend at that level. He's all hype.

He most certainly loses to Perpetua at full power, forget about Elaine.

yeah that Death Metal Rise of the New God one shot really pull DK and Perpetua into omniversal level

plus Perpetua when first introduced was said to be most feared in the omniverse

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I think it was retconned to be at one point but there was still evidence showing it was multiversal. I don't know the current status of the retcons on its power.

Starlin himself never considered it above universal.

They were creators, not actually embodiment of the multiverses.

So, universal? Cool.

Yes. He had no command over Starbrand because it was from New Universe and couldn't retrieve the infinity gem from the Malibu universe.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Starlin himself never considered it above universal.

They were creators, not actually embodiment of the multiverses.

So, universal? Cool.

Yes. He had no command over Starbrand because it was from New Universe and couldn't retrieve the infinity gem from the Malibu universe.

If for example, Perpetua was in the Marvel Universe, could she or would she be able to affect the Starbrand in the New Universe, or retrieve an Infinity gem from the Malibu Universe?

Originally posted by Stoic
If for example, Perpetua was in the Marvel Universe, could she or would she be able to affect the Starbrand in the New Universe, or retrieve an Infinity gem from the Malibu Universe?

Yes, in short.

Originally posted by Stoic
The battle begins within one and only one super giant universe.

BFR is not possible.

Which one of these near omnipotent characters would be the last standing?

Doctor Manhattan
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet
Darkseid (most powerful version)
Elaine Belloc
Beyonder (original power levels)
Molecule Man
Man of Miracles
Decreator
Living Tribunal
Perpetua

Which one takes this? Elaine... By a lot.

DC is producing omniversal or multiversal+ "all powerful beings" on a monthly basis it seems. Meanwhile Marvel is crapping all over their cosmology for reasons unknown. Regarding Marvel, I wouldn't be surprised if Franklin RIchards is more powerful than the LT at this point.

Franklin was depowered, zop.

Checkmate

Originally posted by zopzop
DC is producing omniversal or multiversal+ "all powerful beings" on a monthly basis it seems. Meanwhile Marvel is crapping all over their cosmology for reasons unknown. Regarding Marvel, I wouldn't be surprised if Franklin RIchards is more powerful than the LT at this point.
Korvac wrecked LT and In Betweener, so you are right. Franklin>Galactus>Korvac>LT

TBF, Korvac killed LT and in Betweener off panel

Originally posted by MrMind
endless mike cosmic knowledge is still stuck from 10 years ago

More like 8 years, but yeah, that's why I don't really do debates these days, and asking for scans of everything that has been retconned wouldn't be very reasonable, so I can take your word for it until I read more stuff myself.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
TBF, Korvac killed LT and in Betweener off panel
It was confirmed in recap too.

Man of Miracles or Elaine.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was confirmed in recap too.
WTF? Seriously?

Originally posted by zopzop
WTF? Seriously?

https://i.postimg.cc/6T6sRxDs/04.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/z3xsFPry/20-1.jpg

Iron Man #15 and #19.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was confirmed in recap too.
Yes, I knew that. But it still off panel. The reason I'm hesitating to use it now is because the writer stated LT and In-Betweener let Korvac go because they knew how things would play out

Not saying writer interviews are admissible, It is just because there are still a few issues Cantwell will write in upcoming months, so he still has the chance to write what he said in the comics before he goes.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yes, I knew that. But it still off panel. The reason I'm hesitating to use it now is because the writer stated LT and In-Betweener let Korvac go because they knew how things would play out

Not saying writer interviews are admissible, It is just because there are still a few issues Cantwell will write in upcoming months, so he still has the chance to write what he said in the comics before he goes.

Yeah, it seems at odds with Korvac's statement there, that he was too strong for them to hold.

qwerty styling on you guys

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yes, I knew that. But it still off panel. The reason I'm hesitating to use it now is because the writer stated LT and In-Betweener let Korvac go because they knew how things would play out

Not saying writer interviews are admissible, It is just because there are still a few issues Cantwell will write in upcoming months, so he still has the chance to write what he said in the comics before he goes.
Which interview?

Originally posted by MrMind
endless mike cosmic knowledge is still stuck from 10 years ago
Elaine is effectively omnipotent, there is no nigh or near, her omnipotence is not lesser than the likes of TOAA, not by a long shot

Then you have a bunch of people who are completely out of their league compare to some others on the list,
like what is LT, IG Thanos and Darkseid doing here lmfao,
it is a stoic thread so I don't expect too much from it

if I have to rank them from most powerful to least

Elaine Belloc
Man of Miracles
Doctor Manhattan--Perpetua (they around same level)
Beyonder (original power levels)
Molecule Man
Living Tribunal
Darkseid (most powerful version)
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet (lol)

Decreator has no notable feat I remember, somebody can clue me in on him, but if I have to guess he be in the bottom of the totem pole as well

You keep doing to yourself bruh. I got the list from an online site. Stay in your lane man.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Which interview?
Technically, it isn't an interview, he replied it on twitter

https://twitter.com/ifyoucantwell/status/1521931150289035264

That handle isn't even verified if its him lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
That handle isn't even verified if its him lol
Huh, didn't notice that before. Maybe LT and In Betweener really jobbed hard in Iron Man run

Originally posted by Endless Mike
More like 8 years, but yeah, that's why I don't really do debates these days, and asking for scans of everything that has been retconned wouldn't be very reasonable, so I can take your word for it until I read more stuff myself.

Yeah, alot has changed since Mr. Masters got outed badly.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Yeah, alot has changed since Mr. Masters got outed badly.

What happened?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
What happened?
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=666260&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=666260&pagenumber=1

Can you summarize it for me? I don't really have time to read an 8 page thread.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Can you summarize it for me? I don't really have time to read an 8 page thread.
Basically what Galan said in the first page of said thread

Yeah I read that, but is that all? He was banned just for making dupe accounts? I thought Classic NES was implying that he was lying about stuff in comics.

He was making socks to prop up himself, logging in from different accounts to just talk about how great he was and flame other posters when they didn't agree with him.

One of the weirdest socking I've ever seen.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yeah I read that, but is that all? He was banned just for making dupe accounts? I thought Classic NES was implying that he was lying about stuff in comics.
It actually a lot more cringe than that. But you need to follow the entire incident( the links were posted by DeadpoolXXX in that thread)

As for the stuff in comics, I did see sometimes people accuse him for lying about it. But most of us also were accused for similar things. I don't really pay much attention to the cosmic stuff so I can't have my opinion on it

The scale of it was insane.

And he's been indeed doing that for over a decade, as Galan said in the quoted post.

Most of us are hopeless geeks here, but Master was mentally ill.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
What happened?

In addition to what others have stated. DC has gotten massive and I mean massive expansions to it's cosmology and cosmics. Combined with masters cosmics hierarchy being tossed in the waste bin. Alot has changed.

Funny thing, he was treated better than most, as he was given a dozen of extra chances to explain his actions. Even a special thread was made by Galan. He wasted all of those.

Normally, it's an instant permaban for mass-socking.

And he did act in a very creepy way, PMing lots of users (including me) with more bullshit. "This cat would never do such a thing! I never socked! Okay, maybe once! But it's because I am too famous, I need to switch accounts often!"

Seriously, he was saying such bs

All of his cosmic posts were trash, tbh.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


All of his cosmic posts were trash, tbh.

Tbh, I was always more of a GalacticStorm fanboy.

Still disagree with Masters getting banned.

Originally posted by carver9
Still disagree with Masters getting banned.

Because you are an idiot

Multiple Registrations
Registration is strictly restricted to one per person (and one per computer). If we find any user who has created multiple accounts purposely, we reserve the right to remove all membership access without notice or explanation.
All name change request must be made to the Administrator, and is an unacceptable excuse for multiple registrations.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/misc.php?action=rules

And he's not banned, fyi. You would know that if you had a brain.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Korvac wrecked LT and In Betweener, so you are right. Franklin>Galactus>Korvac>LT

He also lost to LPS Galactus.

He didn't. He lost to Reed

Originally posted by abhilegend
He didn't. He lost to Reed

Did not know that.

Dr.Manhattan is strongest here followed by perpetua then sf darkseid.

Mr. Master is back?

Imo, Man of Miracles or Elaine wins.