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it's nothing like 10 years ago at all

it seems like there is no traction in discussing new events and different titles

vs forum as well there is no debate on any matchups

not only here but throughout the internet

has anime officially taken over the comic nerd demographics?

Dude, try watching 1970's Pete's Dragon and comparing it to the remake.


You know what Keith Giffen's Justice League and 1970's Pete's Dragon has in commom. Vaudeville references. Skits, jokes, dance numbers, all kinds of classic comedy.

Comics and tv and movies, its all done now by people who probably don't even know what vaudeville even is. Their humor comes from stupid SNL skits that all revolve around partisan politics. I miss the comedy, I miss the humor, I miss slapstick.

It's all stupid idealogy and axes to grind now.

Originally posted by MrMind
it's nothing like 10 years ago at all

it seems like there is no traction in discussing new events and different titles

vs forum as well there is no debate on any matchups

not only here but throughout the internet

has anime officially taken over the comic nerd demographics? This is what happens when things go mainstream, but would I want comics written for the "nerds"who frequent online sites like this, no. It's also your age, as with pop music, with comics too you get out of touch. Pop culture is for people younger than you now Mindy, perhaps.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
This is what happens when things go mainstream, but would I want comics written for the "nerds"who frequent online sites like this, no. It's also your age, as with pop music, with comics too you get out of touch. Pop culture is for people younger than you now Mindy, perhaps.


Boomers writing to millennials?

No wonder the New52 failed. Grant Morrison writing to people in their teens and early 20's.

I'll tell you what happened:
a) Crap storylines
b) Wildly inconsistent power levels
c) Character origin and company reboots occurring way too frequently

And yet,

https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html

I mean....zop, you say all that, but the Silver Age was worse. One day Superman/Thor would move planets, then the next they'd be fighting gorillas who also happened to be from the future and were theor descendants or whatever. Some of the (a lot of the) storylines were shit as well. We just happen to be on the ground, as it were, week in and week out so can see all of it.

It's like music. Yeah sure every decade had it's classics...but it had it's fair share of dress as well, we just don't remember it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean....zop, you say all that, but the Silver Age was worse. One day Superman/Thor would move planets, then the next they'd be fighting gorillas who also happened to be from the future and were theor descendants or whatever. Some of the (a lot of the) storylines were shit as well. We just happen to be on the ground, as it were, week in and week out so can see all of it.

It's like music. Yeah sure every decade had it's classics...but it had it's fair share of dress as well, we just don't remember it. spot on, and I stand by the older you get the less pop culture matches your needs.

Originally posted by MrMind
it's nothing like 10 years ago at all

it seems like there is no traction in discussing new events and different titles

vs forum as well there is no debate on any matchups

not only here but throughout the internet

has anime officially taken over the comic nerd demographics?

I think it has. Manga has become alot more mainstream over the years. First sign was when they took over bookstores. But, at the time Direct market still sold more. Now that's not the case, so yeah. I still like comics though but unlike my generation most kids under 18 like my Godson are growing up with Manga.

All the good writers and artists started focusing on creator owned.

Originally posted by Juntai
All the good writers and artists started focusing on creator owned.

Like who? What kind of work?

Does it hold a candle to Cerebrus the Aardvark, Groo the Wanderer, Usagi Yojimbo, TMNT, and even Spawn. Or is it more like "What you can read in the big two rebranded" or "Idealogy!"

Originally posted by zopzop
I'll tell you what happened:
a) Crap storylines
b) Wildly inconsistent power levels
c) Character origin and company reboots occurring way too frequently

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
And yet,

https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html


The comics industry has been on the rise, with 2021 setting an all-time revenue high. This surpasses the 1993 boom, even when adjusted for inflation.

www.forbes.com/sites/robsalkowitz/2022/07/05/2021-comic-sales-were-up-up-and-away-at-a-record-2-billion/amp/

Comics are actually thriving right now. We're even seeing Indie titles pop off a bit.

With vs forums stuff, maybe general interest in that specifically has fallen off though. Or at least moved to other venues.

Weak Saga's and all out inconsistencies.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean....zop, you say all that, but the Silver Age was worse. One day Superman/Thor would move planets, then the next they'd be fighting gorillas who also happened to be from the future and were theor descendants or whatever. Some of the (a lot of the) storylines were shit as well. We just happen to be on the ground, as it were, week in and week out so can see all of it.

It's like music. Yeah sure every decade had it's classics...but it had it's fair share of dress as well, we just don't remember it.

Pretty much.

Sure, there is this whole sjw/wokeness/LBGQTukvcasghfiukasg-mania going on...

... but let's not pretend that past decades of comics were free of any agendas.

Rushing deadlines, disregarding continuity, preferring quantity over quality, blowing movie studios - now those are problems.

I mean, people are complaining about inconsistencies.....when DC needed to destroy everything and restart it in 1985 because they had too many inconsistencies.

Odin was enslaved by random space ants who fed him drugged gruel, lmao.

Hulk could....fly, at one point, I think, but then the comics suddenly forgot it.

Inconsistencies have always been there. We just remember it better now because information is so readily searchable now.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
It's also your age, as with pop music, with comics too you get out of touch. Pop culture is for people younger than you now Mindy, perhaps. lol, roasted

I would love to see a battle between Classic Whirly and Current Whirly.

In short, every thing is aimed at purple haired, sexually confused zoomers, who spend too much time on Twitter. Also, women low key dominate comics now. Especially in editorial.

Thor is a woman.

My mom is Thor?

Perhaps.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
In short, every thing is aimed at purple haired, sexually confused zoomers, who spend too much time on Twitter. Also, women low key dominate comics now. Especially in editorial.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/044/247/297.png

Do you yearn for the days where Superman could randomly pull Super Basket Weaving powers out his ass, or the JLA were turned into potted plants or some shit, or a full third of every comic panel was filled with exposition and words?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Do you yearn for the days where Superman could randomly pull Super Basket Weaving powers out his ass, or the JLA were turned into potted plants or some shit, or a full third of every comic panel was filled with exposition and words?
It was a simpler time then. Even still, I'd rather read those cheesy storylines than this :
https://i.postimg.cc/DJb2QNDH/edgeofspiderverse.jpg
I'm gay and that is cringey AF.

As for the thread - I think the biggest shift in the comics industry, easily, has been the MCU. Two decades ago, comic book movies occasionally got greenlit with no guarantee on profits. And comics themselves were never profitable (for publishers or stores) which is why Marvel nearly went bankrupt in the 90s.

Now, comics are angled to build momentum for characters and ideas to prop up the next Avengers: Endgame, which probably made more at the box office than the revenue generated by the entire comic industry that year.

Maybe that means that narrative gets compromised because comics ultimately become a form of marketing and merchandise for the movie industry. On the other hand, Marvel and DC must have more power to invest in ideas now without worrying as much about profits, in order to realize that investment at the box office (and in Disney+ subscriptions, etc). And other studios look to indie comics for hidden gems, etc.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
In short, every thing is aimed at purple haired, sexually confused zoomers, who spend too much time on Twitter. Also, women low key dominate comics now. Especially in editorial.

See this is speaking my language. Why am I blacklisted if you agree with me. I also do not understand why the men in charge let themselves be trounced out of power. Unless men are controlling everything from the Shadows while woman become CEOs in public leaders but have no real influence.

Comicvine is popping though

Originally posted by Smurph
As for the thread - I think the biggest shift in the comics industry, easily, has been the MCU. Two decades ago, comic book movies occasionally got greenlit with no guarantee on profits. And comics themselves were never profitable (for publishers or stores) which is why Marvel nearly went bankrupt in the 90s.

Now, comics are angled to build momentum for characters and ideas to prop up the next Avengers: Endgame, which probably made more at the box office than the revenue generated by the entire comic industry that year.

Maybe that means that narrative gets compromised because comics ultimately become a form of marketing and merchandise for the movie industry. On the other hand, Marvel and DC must have more power to invest in ideas now without worrying as much about profits, in order to realize that investment at the box office (and in Disney+ subscriptions, etc). And other studios look to indie comics for hidden gems, etc.

but that's just fan base for the movie though

people still buy actual comic books?

comics popularity is one third of the manga in america alone, if im being generous

from where ive seen

also for vs battles why do sites like kmc and comicvine have way fewer debators compare to 10 years ago

there's no traffic in comic vs battles at all

Originally posted by MrMind
but that's just fan base for the movie though

people still buy actual comic books?

comics popularity is one third of the manga in america alone, if im being generous

from where ive seen

also for vs battles why do sites like kmc and comicvine have way fewer debators compare to 10 years ago

there's no traffic in comic vs battles at all No

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23013512/us-manga-sales-chartbeat-feature-tracking-sales-drama

If you look at the numbers in the actual report, comic book sales are still more popular than manga sales in North America, and both industries are going through growth spurts, although manga more quickly and impressively.

But my point is that a direct comparison doesn't make a lot of sense because comics these days are about transforming readers into moviegoers and vice versa. Comic book publishing is now all about growing the value of the IP.

Originally posted by Smurph
No

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23013512/us-manga-sales-chartbeat-feature-tracking-sales-drama

If you look at the numbers in the actual report, comic book sales are still more popular than manga sales in North America, and both industries are going through growth spurts, although manga more quickly and impressively.

But my point is that a direct comparison doesn't make a lot of sense because comics these days are about transforming readers into moviegoers and vice versa. Comic book publishing is now all about growing the value of the IP.

that's just it though, actual book sales is a very small reflection of what reality is

anime/manga fans are usually reading online just like most comic book fans

also if you check out anime sites like crunchyroll the traffic is insane

let's take comicvine for example, the biggest comic site on google

check out their vs forum, 60 percent of battles are anime related, the rest is comic movie versus, actual comic battles are like 10 percent

Take a look at r/whowouldwin

Looks like a mix of comic book and manga characters

as far as lgbtq and political correctness in comic

i can see why, that's the direction most of the first world is moving

also comic fans are usually losers and nerds of the social groups, so they by themselves grew up "minority" in some way

the "cool" kids of the society don't really read comics like that

Originally posted by Smurph
No

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23013512/us-manga-sales-chartbeat-feature-tracking-sales-drama

If you look at the numbers in the actual report, comic book sales are still more popular than manga sales in North America, and both industries are going through growth spurts, although manga more quickly and impressively.

But my point is that a direct comparison doesn't make a lot of sense because comics these days are about transforming readers into moviegoers and vice versa. Comic book publishing is now all about growing the value of the IP.

That's Polygon dude, it's tabloid trash.

Originally posted by Smurph
Take a look at r/whowouldwin

Looks like a mix of comic book and manga characters

that place is a mess, it's like mostly movie and tv show characters mix with manga and few comics

400k members looks like a lot, but compare to most hobbies on reddit this is tiny (for example r/nba has 6 million members)

realistically does comic book movies actually draw movie goers into actual following weekly comics type nerds?

with gamers it's the other way around, most gaming movies are tailored for gamers

most comic book movies are tailored for general public

Originally posted by MrMind
that place is a mess, it's like mostly movie and tv show characters mix with manga and few comics

400k members looks like a lot, but compare to most hobbies on reddit this is tiny (for example r/nba has 6 million members) yeah but that's comparing battleboarders to NBA fans

this is a pretty niche hobby. Not representative of either industry. KMC isn't dead because comics are declining, KMC is dead because internet message boards are digital dinosaurs.

Originally posted by Smurph
yeah but that's comparing battleboarders to NBA fans

this is a pretty niche hobby. Not representative of either industry. KMC isn't dead because comics are declining, KMC is dead because internet message boards are digital dinosaurs.

so where do most people discuss comics, other than message boards/forums

Originally posted by MrMind
realistically does comic book movies actually draw movie goers into actual following weekly comics type nerds?

with gamers it's the other way around, most gaming movies are tailored for gamers

most comic book movies are tailored for general public Movies do boost sales, yes. Ie, Guardians of the Galaxy's change in status and sales figures because of the MCU.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/8/6/5967101/what-guardians-of-the-galaxys-massive-success-means-for-marvel

Originally posted by MrMind
so where do most people discuss comics, other than message boards/forums
They don't. Only nerds like us do.

Originally posted by MrMind
so where do most people discuss comics, other than message boards/forums idk because I'm dicking around on here and not wherever it's popular to hang out now

But r/Marvel has over 2 million members. Their insta has over 67M followers. There have got to be a million comic book podcasts, tiktok and YouTube vloggers... yada yada yada

Originally posted by Smurph
idk because I'm dicking around on here and not wherever it's popular to hang out now

But r/Marvel has over 2 million members. Their insta has over 67M followers. There have got to be a million comic book podcasts, tiktok and YouTube vloggers... yada yada yada

eh, those places on youtube or reddit don't have real discussion

the only other place i can think of is comic book resources, but that place so strict you can't even post scans that you didn't purchase

Mr Mind just wants to argue about the infinite dimensions of the omniverse and hypertime and he's sad that nobody else wants to argue about it

https://i.ibb.co/GCjCqfP/true-correct.gif

This is the best board to discuss comics on the internet imo.

Originally posted by MrMind
but that's just fan base for the movie though

people still buy actual comic books?

comics popularity is one third of the manga in america alone, if im being generous

from where ive seen

also for vs battles why do sites like kmc and comicvine have way fewer debators compare to 10 years ago

there's no traffic in comic vs battles at all Social media, the type of people who are on those sites, so many far right trolls, scat fiends and paedophile, also the poster are adults in their 30's, 40's and 50's. You can only have so many of them and discuss Silver Surfer Vs. Thor so many times.

i haven't seen that many far right trolls

when i was on misc of bodybuilding forum it was way worse

Originally posted by MrMind
it's nothing like 10 years ago at all

it seems like there is no traction in discussing new events and different titles

vs forum as well there is no debate on any matchups

not only here but throughout the internet

has anime officially taken over the comic nerd demographics? https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/913/646/5fb.jpg

Originally posted by MrMind
that's just it though, actual book sales is a very small reflection of what reality is

anime/manga fans are usually reading online just like most comic book fans

also if you check out anime sites like crunchyroll the traffic is insane

let's take comicvine for example, the biggest comic site on google

check out their vs forum, 60 percent of battles are anime related, the rest is comic movie versus, actual comic battles are like 10 percent

Crunchyroll has insane traffic?

Avengers made a billion at the box office. Even something like The Joker made huge profits. Let's not drag nonprint media into this.

Originally posted by MrMind
it's nothing like 10 years ago at all

it seems like there is no traction in discussing new events and different titles

vs forum as well there is no debate on any matchups

not only here but throughout the internet
The comic industry stagnated because it hasn't been able to bring in new readers.

Originally posted by MrMind
has anime officially taken over the comic nerd demographics?
It's not fair to compare comics to anime because they're different mediums. Manga is a better comparison. But even then, it's not that simple, because manga works in synergy with the anime adaptions: the anime season ends, and people jump onto the manga to find out what happens next. You have nothing like that for comics. In fact, the jumping-on-points for comics are terrible.

Point in case, Amazing Spider-man ended, the new jumping-on point, Superior Spider-man #1, turned out to be another continuation. And unless you had kept up with Amazing Spider-man you'd not know why Dr. Octopus had Peter's body, or what was going on Parker Industries, and so on.

More comics are sold now...

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
More comics are sold now...
I'm not sure if that's true, because sales numbers aren't publicly available. All you have are estimates of sales. But supposing it is the case, it doesn't change that its presence online isn't what it once was.

How do you gauge online presence?

After all, we have our very own Damborg, YouTube Thormaster.

Originally posted by Astner
I'm not sure if that's true, because sales numbers aren't publicly available. All you have are estimates of sales. But supposing it is the case, it doesn't change that its presence online isn't what it once was. Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
And yet,

https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How do you gauge online presence?
It's my impression from forums and social media.

ERxknnBijLI

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!

Like I said, these are estimates and these particular are made worse by the fact that they're based off Diamond's shipments, because Diamond no longer distributes comics for DC.

Originally posted by Astner
It's my impression from forums and social media.

ERxknnBijLI


Like I said, these are estimates and these particular are made worse by the fact that they're based off Diamond's shipments, because Diamond no longer distributes comics for DC. hmmm, disagree they aren't evidence.

Wait.

If Diamond no longer distributes DC;

And their numbers are going UP compared to previous years;

And previous years include DC;

Surely.....that means sales overall are up?

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
hmmm, disagree they aren't evidence.
Estimates is evidence, but it's weak evidence.

That said, even if there's a growth (which there may well be) it's likely a consequence of an overall market growth, where comics are very likely to overshadowed by manga in the U.S. according to NPD Bookscan's report.

https://i.imgur.com/Vw2pzTf.png

https://i.imgur.com/QFeTxy5.png

You may think this is because manga is comparatively small in the U.S. but it isn't.

https://i.imgur.com/btfOYCN.png

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait.

If Diamond no longer distributes DC;

And their numbers are going UP compared to previous years;

And previous years include DC;

Surely.....that means sales overall are up?
No, because the reports aren't solely based off Diamond's numbers but also on ICV2, this is made clear on the site Whirly linked.

Originally posted by Astner
Estimates is evidence, but it's weak evidence.

That said, even if there's a growth (which there may well be) it's likely a consequence of an overall market growth, where comics are very likely to overshadowed by manga in the U.S. according to NPD Bookscan's report.

https://i.imgur.com/Vw2pzTf.png

https://i.imgur.com/QFeTxy5.png

You may think this is because manga is comparatively small in the U.S. but it isn't.

https://i.imgur.com/btfOYCN.png


No, because the reports aren't solely based off Diamond's numbers but also on ICV2, this is made clear on the site Whirly linked. Yes, it is evidence. It may not be evidence you like or supports your feelings Astner, but it is evidence.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait.

If Diamond no longer distributes DC;

And their numbers are going UP compared to previous years;

And previous years include DC;

Surely.....that means sales overall are up? It does.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Yes, it is evidence. It may not be evidence you like or supports your feelings Astner, but it is evidence.
First and foremost, I don't have feelings one way or the other on this particular subject. I don't care about the comic industry, and I don't care about the manga industry. I read the books I want to check out, that's it.

That said, I don't think you understood my argument.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
It does.
Did you not read the link you posted?

Originally posted by Astner
Estimates is evidence, but it's weak evidence.

That said, even if there's a growth (which there may well be) it's likely a consequence of an overall market growth, where comics are very likely to overshadowed by manga in the U.S. according to NPD Bookscan's report.

https://i.imgur.com/Vw2pzTf.png

https://i.imgur.com/QFeTxy5.png

You may think this is because manga is comparatively small in the U.S. but it isn't.

https://i.imgur.com/btfOYCN.png


No, because the reports aren't solely based off Diamond's numbers but also on ICV2, this is made clear on the site Whirly linked.

BUT I'm addressing your concerns about using the Diamond methodology.

The link clearly shows Diamond numbers going up
.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
BUT I'm addressing your concerns about using the Diamond methodology.

The link clearly shows Diamond numbers going up.
You're right, that's really strange. Apparently Dark Horse Comics, Image Comics, and IDW Publishing are doing really well.

You guys are arguing the number of titles that are shipped (sold to independent retailers), but the actual numbers those stores sell is in the absolute toilet. The truth is, most retailers have giant piles of unsold comics rotting on their shelves that they are forced to try and sell at a discount.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
You guys are arguing the number of titles that are shipped (sold to independent retailers), but the actual numbers those stores sell is in the absolute toilet. The truth is, most retailers have giant piles of unsold comics rotting on their shelves that they are forced to try and sell at a discount. Please provide evidence for your opinion.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Crunchyroll has insane traffic?

Avengers made a billion at the box office. Even something like The Joker made huge profits. Let's not drag nonprint media into this.

how many out of those hundreds of millions people who watch avengers world wide, do you think follow weekly comics release every tuesday/wednesday

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Please provide evidence for your opinion.

Read how comics shipping figures work.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
You guys are arguing the number of titles that are shipped (sold to independent retailers), but the actual numbers those stores sell is in the absolute toilet. The truth is, most retailers have giant piles of unsold comics rotting on their shelves that they are forced to try and sell at a discount.

Two things:

1. The numbers are increasing year on year. If what you say is true, after a couple/three years the shops would be out of money - or else, maybe they're turning a profit even with those discounted titles;

2. The numbers include digital sales too. Maybe brick and mortar comic shops are doing badly, but it's different online, much like any other media (record shops being a prime example).

Edit: maybe the numbers aren't adjusted for inflation? I don't know

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Please provide evidence for your opinion.
Are you drunk? He made an objective assertion, whether it's objectively right or objectively wrong is beside the point. If you say, "the ball is red," that's not your opinion, it's an objective assertion that can be verified or falsified.

That said, he's correct in that Diamond only distributes comics to resellers, and not to the direct market.

Whirly's balls are always red, the man is busy.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
You guys are arguing the number of titles that are shipped (sold to independent retailers), but the actual numbers those stores sell is in the absolute toilet. The truth is, most retailers have giant piles of unsold comics rotting on their shelves that they are forced to try and sell at a discount. That's always been the case. There's never been any room to profit as a comic book store. That said, it looks like they're ordering more from Diamond now than ever before, so...

Well I stand a bit corrected - the sales ARE declining, actually, apart from 2021 when it suddenly jumps (anomaly?)

Right. Down from 2021 but it still looks like overall market growth. Even though the problem of stale issues sitting on shelves is far from new.

Originally posted by MrMind
it's nothing like 10 years ago at all

it seems like there is no traction in discussing new events and different titles

vs forum as well there is no debate on any matchups

not only here but throughout the internet

has anime officially taken over the comic nerd demographics?

In short: the wrong people are in charge now.

I blame old comicbook readers from not becoming fans of woke teenager angst and shitty dialogue in their late years, imagine how bigger the industry would grow if you guys got more confused about your identities *shrugs*

Originally posted by Bentley
I blame old comicbook readers from not becoming fans of woke teenager angst and shitty dialogue in their late years, imagine how bigger the industry would grow if you guys got more confused about your identities *shrugs*


Ironically after having grown up on soap opera and Tween style Xmen stories, such as Wolverine and random X having pissing contests for literally no reason, or Magneto being "tricked" with sex.

Originally posted by Astner
Are you drunk? He made an objective assertion, whether it's objectively right or objectively wrong is beside the point. If you say, "the ball is red," that's not your opinion, it's an objective assertion that can be verified or falsified.

That said, he's correct in that Diamond only distributes comics to resellers, and not to the direct market. he needs to provide evidence to support his viewpoint, claim and prove he is objective, otherwise all I see is an opinion.

In my opinion, opinions can be wrong.

Originally posted by Smurph
In my opinion, opinions can be wrong. mhmm, even objective options! True... true.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I would love to see a battle between Classic Whirly and Current Whirly. Cirrent Whirly would lose, he has gone soft and classic Whirly wS relentless with more socks than Mr Master. I am a pale shadow.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
mhmm, even objective options! True... true. idk though maybe Astner will tell me that my opinion is wrong. Objectively.

Originally posted by Smurph
idk though maybe Astner will tell me that my opinion is wrong. Objectively. he will no doubt apply some physics to your observations creating Schrodinger's Smurph.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
he needs to provide evidence to support his viewpoint, claim and prove he is objective, otherwise all I see is an opinion.

He can't, because Diamond doesn't release those figures. All we have to go on is the word of comic shop owners, and you can find multiple stories of Diamond bending them over a barrel to boost their own sales.

But again, those are technically just anecdotal.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
You guys are arguing the number of titles that are shipped (sold to independent retailers), but the actual numbers those stores sell is in the absolute toilet. The truth is, most retailers have giant piles of unsold comics rotting on their shelves that they are forced to try and sell at a discount.
At the same time, shops aren't going to order more if the comics are selling less.

Originally posted by StyleTime
At the same time, shops aren't going to order more if the comics are selling less.

If the stories are true, they don't really have a choice. Want that limited edition Batman cover? You need to buy 500 copies of x series that nobody ****ing wants.

Yes but then how sustainable is that? Mr Mind is talking about the last ten years; such practices would bankrupt small stores in two. And it's not like Diamond just started doing this.

Guess what I'm saying is, whilst it may be an issue, I really can't see stores sitting on decades of shitty comics in their warehouses whilst selling the odd Batman comic where his suit has nipples on it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
If the stories are true, they don't really have a choice. Want that limited edition Batman cover? You need to buy 500 copies of x series that nobody ****ing wants. If true... is the argument then that Diamond's sales increased in 2021 not because of increased readership, but instead because of new sales practices, presumably because it lost DC in 2020 and now needs to compete?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes but then how sustainable is that? Mr Mind is talking about the last ten years; such practices would bankrupt small stores in two. And it's not like Diamond just started doing this.

Guess what I'm saying is, whilst it may be an issue, I really can't see stores sitting on decades of shitty comics in their warehouses whilst selling the odd Batman comic where his suit has nipples on it.

Oh, I was just talking about Diamond being *****.

Comics being worse nowadays isn't due to that so much.

As far as Diamond, it isn't a lot of series. Just enough to be a contributing factor.

Originally posted by Smurph
If true... is the argument then that Diamond's sales increased in 2021 not because of increased readership, but instead because of new sales practices, presumably because it lost DC in 2020 and now needs to compete?

Only partially. They raised their prices both for distribution and for individual units, and there was a surge in people buying collectables in general. At least that's what I read anyway.

Originally posted by Smurph
In my opinion, opinions can be wrong.
Just because you call your claim an opinion doesn't make it an opinion.

Your claim "opinions can be wrong," is an objective assertion. It's objectively wrong, but an objective assertion nonetheless.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
even objective options! True... true.
There are no objective opinions, opinions are subjective.

Originally posted by Astner
Just because you call your claim an opinion doesn't make it an opinion.

Your claim "opinions can be wrong," is an objective assertion. It's objectively wrong, but an objective assertion nonetheless.


There are no objective opinions, opinions are subjective. Exactly, opinions are subjective.

Originally posted by -Pr-


Only partially. They raised their prices both for distribution and for individual units, and there was a surge in people buying collectables in general. At least that's what I read anyway. Cool, thanks Pr

Originally posted by -Pr-
Oh, I was just talking about Diamond being *****.

Comics being worse nowadays isn't due to that so much.

As far as Diamond, it isn't a lot of series. Just enough to be a contributing factor.



Only partially. They raised their prices both for distribution and for individual units, and there was a surge in people buying collectables in general. At least that's what I read anyway. This is interesting:

https://www.polygon.com/23013512/us-manga-sales-chartbeat-feature-tracking-sales-drama

The report’s author, Brian Hibbs, explains: “In 2021, comics thoroughly exploded in a way that almost defies rationality — not only was raw circulation up by nearly 70% (!), more comics material was sold in 2021 than 2018 and 2019 combined (!!) If we compare the 2021 sales to our first BookScan report in 2003, there’s more than a 558% growth in number of copies sold (!!!). If I didn’t see the numbers written in black & white, I’m not sure I’d even believe it.”

Hibbs notes that 64% of all sales are of books by just 95 people — but he sees that as a good sign. “This is a vast broadening of the talent pool — in 2020 it was only 51 people, who represented 61% of sales,” Hibbs writes. Some of the most popular creators selling comics and manga right now include Dan Pilkey, creator of the Captain Underpants series; My Hero Academia creator Kohei Horikoshi; authors from the Babysitter’s Club graphic novel adaptations; and YouTuber FGTeeV.

“What you can take from this is that only a tiny number of creators drive the majority of the business in comics (and books in general, as far as I can tell); and conversely, this probably means that the numerical majority of comics aren’t actually significantly profitable any given year.” -snip

Like I "postulated", it may just be guys here are not down with the youf.

Originally posted by Astner
Just because you call your claim an opinion doesn't make it an opinion.

Your claim "opinions can be wrong," is an objective assertion. It's objectively wrong, but an objective assertion nonetheless.


There are no objective opinions, opinions are subjective. I disagree. I was giving my opinion on the meaning of the word opinion. Facts are facts, sure, but "opinion" has an incredibly broad definition and includes a personal understanding of a given set of facts.

Anyways, the reverse is obviously true - just because you call something an objective assertion doesn't make it so. Feel free to try to objectively prove that opinions cannot be wrong.

Originally posted by Smurph
I disagree. I was giving my opinion on the meaning of the word opinion. Facts are facts, sure, but "opinion" has an incredibly broad definition and includes a personal understanding of a given set of facts.

Anyways, the reverse is obviously true - just because you call something an objective assertion doesn't make it so. Feel free to try to objectively prove that opinions cannot be wrong. Exactly.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
This is interesting:

https://www.polygon.com/23013512/us-manga-sales-chartbeat-feature-tracking-sales-drama

The report’s author, Brian Hibbs, explains: “In 2021, comics thoroughly exploded in a way that almost defies rationality — not only was raw circulation up by nearly 70% (!), more comics material was sold in 2021 than 2018 and 2019 combined (!!) If we compare the 2021 sales to our first BookScan report in 2003, there’s more than a 558% growth in number of copies sold (!!!). If I didn’t see the numbers written in black & white, I’m not sure I’d even believe it.”

Hibbs notes that 64% of all sales are of books by just 95 people — but he sees that as a good sign. “This is a vast broadening of the talent pool — in 2020 it was only 51 people, who represented 61% of sales,” Hibbs writes. Some of the most popular creators selling comics and manga right now include Dan Pilkey, creator of the Captain Underpants series; My Hero Academia creator Kohei Horikoshi; authors from the Babysitter’s Club graphic novel adaptations; and YouTuber FGTeeV.

“What you can take from this is that only a tiny number of creators drive the majority of the business in comics (and books in general, as far as I can tell); and conversely, this probably means that the numerical majority of comics aren’t actually significantly profitable any given year.” -snip

Like I "postulated", it may just be guys here are not down with the youf.

Have you read the report he's talking about?

This alone is pretty telling:



Outside of a few outliers, Marvel and DC aren't the titans they used to be. They're being propped up by movie money. It's easy to be dismissive and say that people aren't "down with the youth", when most people here will agree that Manga is generally better than comics. Which the report supports.

And, the amount of statements saying "2021 is an exception" means the rule is pretty dire in general.

All that said? If you like modern books from any company, please buy them. I know I do. Support the stuff you like, and hopefully we'll get more of it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Have you read the report he's talking about?

This alone is pretty telling:



Outside of a few outliers, Marvel and DC aren't the titans they used to be. They're being propped up by movie money. It's easy to be dismissive and say that people aren't "down with the youth", when most people here will agree that Manga is generally better than comics. Which the report supports.

And, the amount of statements saying "2021 is an exception" means the rule is pretty dire in general.

All that said? If you like modern books from any company, please buy them. I know I do. Support the stuff you like, and hopefully we'll get more of it. They are propped up by the movie Industry and that is a circular situation, because the movie industry leads to increased sales of classic stories as anthonlogies and graphic novels. You walk into any large bookshop and check out the Graphic novel section. Now beyond that we have the online access and sales etc... Numbers are going up, the comics have also opened new markets. I was in the Virgin Megastore in Dubai a few weeks back and the comic section was heaving. It sells normal comics as well.

https://www.virginmegastore.ae/en/search/?text=Comics

Originally posted by -Pr-
If the stories are true, they don't really have a choice. Want that limited edition Batman cover? You need to buy 500 copies of x series that nobody ****ing wants.
That's definitely true in many cases. I doubt we'll ever have completely accurate numbers, especially considering how impossible digital sales\subscriptions are to track.

I just think it cuts both ways -- how are people saying comics are "dying" if they don't have the numbers saying so?

From what information we do have, it seems like they're growing. We even see indie/Image series outperforming popular Marvel/DC titles in some months.

Something is Killing the Children puts up numbers we'd expect to see from Batman at times.

It just seems like some growth must be happening here, although maybe the numbers aren't 100% accurate.

Originally posted by StyleTime
That's definitely true in many cases. I doubt we'll ever have completely accurate numbers, especially considering how impossible digital sales are to track.

I just think it cuts both ways -- how are people saying comics are "dying" if they don't have the numbers saying so?

From what information we do have, it seems like they're growing. We even see indie/Image series outperforming even popular Marvel/DC titles in some months.

Something is Killing the Children is putting up numbers we'd expect to see from Batman at times.

It just seems like something growth must be happening here, although maybe the numbers aren't 100% accurate. Bingo!

Originally posted by Smurph
Your third premise ("Opinions are not verifiable, therefore they can't be right" is just your conclusion in the contraposition. So your argument becomes "opinions cannot be right therefore they cannot be wrong". Tautological; not an objective proof.

In fact, it sounds more like this is merely... your opinion. Yup, it does, and the point I sarcastically made early, which was lost on Astner I think.

Originally posted by Astner
It's my impression from forums and social media.


Sounds like an opinion, man. Have you got more than a feeling?

Who needs feelings when you can have bullshit mathematical formulas instead?

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
They are propped up by the movie Industry and that is a circular situation, because the movie industry leads to increased sales of classic stories as anthonlogies and graphic novels. You walk into any large bookshop and check out the Graphic novel section. Now beyond that we have the online access and sales etc... Numbers are going up, the comics have also opened new markets. I was in the Virgin Megastore in Dubai a few weeks back and the comic section was heaving. It sells normal comics as well.

https://www.virginmegastore.ae/en/search/?text=Comics

I don't completely disagree. Just in part.

Originally posted by StyleTime
That's definitely true in many cases. I doubt we'll ever have completely accurate numbers, especially considering how impossible digital sales\subscriptions are to track.

I just think it cuts both ways -- how are people saying comics are "dying" if they don't have the numbers saying so?

From what information we do have, it seems like they're growing. We even see indie/Image series outperforming popular Marvel/DC titles in some months.

Something is Killing the Children puts up numbers we'd expect to see from Batman at times.

It just seems like some growth must be happening here, although maybe the numbers aren't 100% accurate.

Oh, I agree with that. I don't think comics are actually "dying" per se. But I do believe there's been a distinct drop in quality in the last decade or so (at the big two at least). And eventually I think that's going to catch up with them.

Hell, even the MCU isn't making the same bank it used to.

Hi, honey

Originally posted by Smurph
Your third premise ("Opinions are not verifiable, therefore they can't be right" is just your conclusion in the contraposition.
No, only facts are verifiable.

Originally posted by Smurph
So your argument becomes "opinions cannot be right therefore they cannot be wrong". Tautological; not an objective proof.
An a priori proof is just that, to take an illusive statement, break it down to simpler parts to prove that it is a tautology.

All correct a priori statements are tautologies.

Originally posted by Smurph
In fact, it sounds more like this is merely... your opinion.
It's not.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't completely disagree. Just in part.



Oh, I agree with that. I don't think comics are actually "dying" per se. But I do believe there's been a distinct drop in quality in the last decade or so (at the big two at least). And eventually I think that's going to catch up with them.

Hell, even the MCU isn't making the same bank it used to. The MCU, is simply trying to put out too much content because it knows a lot of people will watch anyway... att least until they don't so, to do an Astner if I have 2 films costing 200,000,000 make 2 billion or I have 10 films and 20 TV shows costing 1 billion and makink me 5 billion which has made me the most money in total.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Hi, honey

https://i.imgur.com/slavA5p.gif

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
The MCU, is simply trying to put out too much content because it knows a lot of people will watch anyway... att least until they don't so, to do an Astner if I have 2 films costing 200,000,000 make 2 billion or I have 10 films and 20 TV shows costing 1 billion and makink me 5 billion which has made me the most money in total.

Again, I don't completely disagree. I just think it should also be considered that there's been a distinct drop in quality since Endgame too. Same with comics.

Originally posted by Astner
No, only facts are verifiable. You may disagree with it, but that simply means that you're wrong. Facts are verifiable. Ergo, assessments of facts are verifiable.

Opinions are expressions of personal views and beliefs. Ergo, an opinion is verifiable if the opinion is just a personal assessment of the facts.

In this case, you have expressed an opinion on the nature of opinions that is observably wrong.

Of course, this does not mean that any given opinion is verifiable. You're conflating a characteristic of some opinions (ie being impossible to verify) with a requirement of all opinions.
Originally posted by Astner
An a priori proof is just that, to take an illusive statement, break it down to simpler parts to prove that it is a tautology.

All correct a priori statements are tautologies.
A "proof" that assumes its conclusion as a premise proves nothing. Your failure to distinguish between your assumptions and your conclusion is the reason why you have formed a mistaken opinion about opinions.

Originally posted by Astner
It's not. I disagree.

Guess that means... we have a difference in opinion.

Also, lol, I see that you edited out "You may disagree with it, but that simply means that you're wrong."

Looks like a concession to me.

Originally posted by Smurph
Facts are verifiable. Ergo, assessments of facts are verifiable.
You're using the word "verifiable" equivocally here. Facts can't be wrong, an assessment of a fact can be wrong, so they're not verifiable in the same sense of the word.

Since your argument supervenes on this faulty premise there's no need to further address it.

Originally posted by Smurph
A "proof" that assumes its conclusion as a premise proves nothing.
The premise "opinions can't be right," follows from the premise that only facts can be true.

Originally posted by Smurph
Your failure to distinguish between your assumptions and your conclusion is the reason why you have formed a mistaken opinion about opinions.
You don't seem to understand how an a priori proof works. For the argument to be wrong either the structure of the argument has to be wrong, or one of the premises has to be wrong.

The structure of the argument is simple and should be uncontroversial.

The premises are: (a) every opinion has an counteropinion, (b) for an opinion to be wrong the counteropinion has to be right, and (c) opinions can't be right.

(a) and (b) should be uncontroversial, since these apply to facts as well.

(c) might be a bit tricky, but "only facts can be factual" is a tautology.

Originally posted by Smurph
I disagree.
It's not a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by Smurph
Also, lol, I see that you edited out "You may disagree with it, but that simply means that you're wrong."

Looks like a concession to me.
No, I decided to be nice to you and spare your ego. The point still stands.

Well, you ended up talking around the argument rather than make it. If you want to avoid dealing with the fault in your premise, we can leave the discussion there.

Originally posted by Astner

It's not a matter of opinion.
And yet... I'm of the opposite opinion.

Funny, that.

Originally posted by Smurph
Well, you ended up talking around the argument rather than make it. If you want to avoid dealing with the fault in your premise, we can leave the discussion there.
This is a concession on your part by the Burden of the Rejoinder.

Originally posted by Smurph
And yet... I'm of the opposite opinion.

Funny, that.
I made a statement of fact, not opinion, therefore there's no counteropinion.

Originally posted by Astner
This is a concession on your part by the Burden of the Rejoinder. Rejoinder is above. No need to repeat myself.

Originally posted by Astner
I made a statement of fact, not opinion, therefore there's no counteropinion. Not in my opinion.

Originally posted by Smurph
Rejoinder is above. No need to repeat myself.
No. You're repeating a refuted claim without addressing the arguments in the refutation. According to the Burden of the Rejoinder this is an implicit concession of the claim.

Originally posted by Smurph
Not in my opinion. Originally posted by Astner
It's not a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by Astner
No. You're repeating a refuted claim without addressing the arguments in the refutation. According to the Burden of the Rejoinder this is an implicit concession of the claim. I mean, if you say so

We're each entitled to our own opinion, I suppose

Originally posted by Astner
You're using the word "verifiable" equivocally here. Facts can't be wrong, an assessment of a fact can be wrong, so they're not verifiable in the same sense of the word.

Since your argument supervenes on this faulty premise there's no need to further address it.

I see that you edited this point.

For clarity, in my opinion, there is no equivocation. Facts are verifiable in both senses of the word.

This happened;


zTMe5p_eTZg


Singing used to be a thing in acting. Television and movies were an extension of the roots in the theater, background in the arts mattered!

Until it became about money money money by the pound, and those traditions in the fine arts made way for trash culture, consisting of hacks leading hacks while paying out the ass for bad cgi. Spectacle became the new art, worship of money replaced worship of talent.


The comic industry has a similar pedigree as a staging ground for real artists to showcase their chops, with highly talented writers and artists composing and crafting and sweating through a creative process, which all changed when greedy megacorps swooped in ala Disney, and has been shite ever since.


Say I'm a cynic, ok fine, where is the modern Infinity Gauntlet? Where is our Swamp Thing of this brave new world, or even a Spawn or TMNT?


It's all either homogenous crap now, or Mark Millar style garbage as your alternative. Dystopia or souless rehash, what a choice! Or maybe some political soapboxing to spice it up with "lgbt friendly" comics that all read as if they follow the exact same formula, because they DO, because that's what appealing to a demographic IS. It limits you creatively, expression defined as sales and dollars and buys, and a movie deal at some point.

Cerberus never did that, it could care less what you thought about it. It found its audience through it's sincerity, not because it tailored itself based on some bullshit market analysis.

Too many fudge packers.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Oh, I agree with that. I don't think comics are actually "dying" per se. But I do believe there's been a distinct drop in quality in the last decade or so (at the big two at least). And eventually I think that's going to catch up with them.

Hell, even the MCU isn't making the same bank it used to.

Yeah, I agree there. I think the boost we're seeing in indie titles reflects that a bit. It's happening slowly, but people are realizing there is more than just Marvel and DC out there. And it's often better material.

Granted, not all of it. The Last Days of American Crime comic kinda sucked. Cool premise though, which made the disappointment sting more.

manga being more popular doesn't make sense

you telling me thor or superman's best stories can't even compete to one piece or naruto？

come on

anime like jujutsu kaisen or my hero academia wouldn't receive such high reception if it's not from japan, marvel and dc regular ongoings have better story telling and dialogue

Originally posted by MrMind
manga being more popular doesn't make sense

you telling me thor or superman's best stories can't even compete to one piece or naruto？

come on

anime like jujutsu kaisen or my hero academia wouldn't receive such high reception if it's not from japan, marvel and dc regular ongoings have better story telling and dialogue


https://youtu.be/P_omZMqTiNU

I believe it personally, mangas business model seems to be better.

honestly sjw and lgbtq stuff is only a small part of the decline in the industry

it seems like the best writers in the world nowadays are not comic writers anymore

where's the next johns, morrison, claremont, hickman

comic writers get paid like shit, actors get to be pretty on the screen for a couple minutes in a mcu movie and they get paid way more than the writers spending day and night coming up with original stories, manga writers get paid way more than comics

seriously creativity needs to be valued, not everything should be a business marketing campaign

read this thread and you will see the sales disparity

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/mangas-just-destroyed-comics-2119876/

Originally posted by MrMind
manga being more popular doesn't make sense

you telling me thor or superman's best stories can't even compete to one piece or naruto？

come on

anime like jujutsu kaisen or my hero academia wouldn't receive such high reception if it's not from japan, marvel and dc regular ongoings have better story telling and dialogue

Manga has actual arcs, with characters that grow and change over time.


Unless you like Hajime No Ippo, then you get twenty years of teasing Ippo getting his first kiss on a date only to have the football pulled out from under you like Lucy to Charlie Brown.

All I know is I can legally get shonen jump and read the lastest chapter of One Piece, Hunter X Hunter and My hero academia for free. If I want to read back issues it cost me 2 bucks a month and I get access to thousands of comics. Meanwhile a similar service like Marvel unlimited cost about 8 dollars. Like the video said Comics are too focused on direct market at the exclusion of everything else. Why would I go out my way to buy a floppy for 5 bucks when I can get thousands of comics on my phone for 2 bucks a month?

Originally posted by Classic NES
All I know is I can legally get shonen jump and read the lastest chapter of One Piece, Hunter X Hunter and My hero academia for free. If I want to read back issues it cost me 2 bucks a month and I get access to thousands of comics. Meanwhile a similar service like Marvel unlimited cost about 8 dollars. Like the video said Comics are too focused on direct market at the exclusion of everything else. Why would I go out my way to buy a floppy for 5 bucks when I can get thousands of comics on my phone for 2 bucks a month?

because you are buying quality stories that manga lacks

and you get a physical copy of the issue that can be collectable one day

I don't know about you I like having an actual book on my hand

Originally posted by MrMind
because you are buying quality stories that manga lacks

and you get a physical copy of the issue that can be collectable one day

I don't know about you I like having an actual book on my hand

An average floppy is about the same as a tankoubon (graphic novel). I have the option for both at a reasonable price. And, quality is debatable. Things like One Piece or HxH are just as "Quality" as any comic to me and millions of other people.

Originally posted by Classic NES
An average floppy is about the same as a tankoubon (graphic novel). I have the option for both at a reasonable price. And, quality is debatable. Things like One Piece or HxH are just as "Quality" as any comic to me and millions of other people.

Much less stone cold classics like Blade of the Immortal, or Fist of the North Star, or Dragon Ball, or Trigun, or Kenshin, or Toriko, or Ranma 1/2, or Berserk, or Kengan Ashura, or Baki the Grappler...

Don't know what he's smoking if he thinks the average comic is in any way "quality".

Originally posted by MrMind
manga being more popular doesn't make sense

you telling me thor or superman's best stories can't even compete to one piece or naruto？

come on

anime like jujutsu kaisen or my hero academia wouldn't receive such high reception if it's not from japan, marvel and dc regular ongoings have better story telling and dialogue

They really don't in a lot of ways. That's the issue. They should be at the top tier, but the flagship titles largely flounder outside of a few.

Originally posted by Classic NES
An average floppy is about the same as a tankoubon (graphic novel). I have the option for both at a reasonable price. And, quality is debatable. Things like One Piece or HxH are just as "Quality" as any comic to me and millions of other people.

one piece and hxh are for mindless enjoyments, one been dragging on for 20 years, the other writer just stopped writing altogether

people who read one piece in the beginning are in their 30s-40s now and one piece only moved like 3 years in their timeline

good written comics are like literature
give me jason aaron or dan jurgens best thor stories over hxh anyday

Originally posted by MrMind
one piece and hxh are for mindless enjoyments, one been dragging on for 20 years, the other writer just stopped writing altogether

people who read one piece in the beginning are in their 30s-40s now and one piece only moved like 3 years in their timeline

good written comics are like literature
give me jason aaron or dan jurgens best thor stories over hxh anyday


Out of all writers you pick Jason Aaron and Dan Jurgans??

You have to be trolling.

Originally posted by MrMind
one piece and hxh are for mindless enjoyments, one been dragging on for 20 years, the other writer just stopped writing altogether

people who read one piece in the beginning are in their 30s-40s now and one piece only moved like 3 years in their timeline

good written comics are like literature
give me jason aaron or dan jurgens best thor stories over hxh anyday

How is that different from comics? I started reading X-Men in 91 it's still going on now. Versus One Piece which is about to end and has only been serialized for 20 years? You seem to have a predisposition and bias for comics which is probably why you don't get it. Manga like Berserk, Grappler Baki and Helsing garner fans because they offer stories that NA comics don't.

aaron created gorr

jurgens created king thor

Originally posted by Classic NES
How is that different from comics? I started reading X-Men in 91 it's still going on now. Versus One Piece which is about to end and has only been serialized for 20 years? You seem to have a predisposition and bias for comics which is probably why you don't get it. Manga like Berserk, Grappler Baki and Helsing garner fans because they offer stories that NA comics don't.

never seen baki

hellsing is just wannabe modern version of the crow or spawn

berserk is one of the all time greats nothing bad to say here

one piece problem is it progress too slow, every chapter is filled with fillers

You all are extremely out of touch, pathetic.

except for Smurph

Originally posted by MrMind
never seen baki

hellsing is just wannabe modern version of the crow or spawn

berserk is one of the all time greats nothing bad to say here

one piece problem is it progress too slow, every chapter is filled with fillers

Baki is amazing you should check it out.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
You all are extremely out of touch, pathetic.

Out of touch about what though? Manga pwns comics.

Originally posted by -Pr-
https://i.imgur.com/slavA5p.gif



C'mon, tough guy.

I know you've missed me

Originally posted by Classic NES
Out of touch about what though? Manga pwns comics.

If he was talking about manhawa he may have had a point. I happen to like manhawa, but it is all ridiculously generic formulaic tripe. All of it! It's like " we are Murim, we are all assholes to the MC, the MC is so weak we all spit on him, oh the
MC just got a thing now he's invincible. Let's continue to laugh at the PC as he kills all of us."

Basically, One Punch Man is making fun of normal everyday Manhwa writing.

Yujiro Hanma is the anti Manhwa protagonist.

The Breaker's best point was having all the Manhwa tropes, yet Shi-Woon was still kind of a loser. Man I miss Goomoonryong.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Out of touch about what though? Manga pwns comics.

But who gives a phuck

Originally posted by Sin I AM
But who gives a phuck

Not the comic book industry since they're getting bodied.