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Strength
Speed
Magic
Reality Warping
Telepathy
Versatility
Tech
Durability
Energy Projection
Fighting skills

^ Does this include Pre-Crisis schlock?

Originally posted by ODG
^ Does this include Pre-Crisis schlock?

im gonna say no

^ Ok. Makes the conversation more interesting. But then when it comes to the raw physical stats like strength, speed, etc. are we limiting it to popular characters? Or are the respective Abstracts in play also?

Originally posted by ODG
^ Ok. Makes the conversation more interesting. But then when it comes to the raw physical stats like strength, speed, etc. are we limiting it to popular characters? Or are the respective Abstracts in play also?

all characters in play i guess?

Ultimately about even.

Originally posted by MrMind
all characters in play i guess? Beyond outliers like the Speedforce concept, then this is just the Presence/Great Darkness vs. ToAA/ToBA then.

I'll pass.

Originally posted by ODG
Beyond outliers like the Speedforce concept, then this is just the Presence/Great Darkness vs. ToAA/ToBA then.

I'll pass.

it's more of on average portrayal, from individual perspective

or should i limit it to

skyfather and below?

Strength - Marvel
Speed - DC
Magic - DC
Reality Warping - Marvel
Telepathy - Marvel
Versatility - Marvel
Tech - Marvel
Durability - DC
Energy Projection - split
Fighting skills - Marvel

Originally posted by carver9
Strength - Marvel
Speed - DC
Magic - DC
Reality Warping - Marvel
Telepathy - Marvel
Versatility - Marvel
Tech - Marvel
Durability - DC
Energy Projection - split
Fighting skills - Marvel

lol at carver

also
Strength-Even
Speed-DC
Magic-DC
Reality Warping-DC
Telepathy-DC
Versatility-Marvel
Tech-Marvel
Durability-Even
Energy Projection-Marvel
Fighting skills-Marvel

Yeah, the Lords of Order and Chaos casually mentioning there are like 50ish beings who can casually warp reality was..... something.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, the Lords of Order and Chaos casually mentioning there are like 50ish beings who can casually warp reality was..... something.

and that's just on earth alone, 50ish characters that can make and unmake reality at a whim

Originally posted by MrMind
it's more of on average portrayal, from individual perspective That sounds like the same as limiting it to more popular characters and not random Abstracts then.

Strength - tie
Speed - DC, by far w/ Speedforce
Magic - Marvel, slightly
Reality Warping - tie
Telepathy - Marvel, slightly
Versatility - tie
Tech - DC, by far w/ Miracle Machine
Durability - tie
Energy Projection - tie
Fighting skills - tie

Originally posted by ODG
That sounds like the same as limiting it to more popular characters and not random Abstracts then.

Strength - tie
Speed - DC, by far w/ Speedforce
Magic - Marvel, slightly
Reality Warping - tie
Telepathy - Marvel, slightly
Versatility - tie
Tech - DC, by far w/ Miracle Machine
Durability - tie
Energy Projection - tie
Fighting skills - tie

how is marvel beating dc in magic

Strength- DC
Speed-DC
Magic-DC
Reality Warping-DC
Telepathy-Marvel
Versatility-Marvel
Tech-DC
Durability-DC
Energy Projection-Marvel
Fighting skills-DC

Originally posted by MrMind
how is marvel beating dc in magic Has a DC herald level magic user restarted the universe in a fight using magic?

Originally posted by playa1258
Fighting skills-DC

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Actually, I've done it numerous times.

Marvel has larger, more diverse street level rooster than DC does, with a longer history and more prestige. Maybe "more prestige" isn't exactly right, but Marvel has managed to keep the entirety their character's history intact since their inception. Sure they have isolated retcons from time to time, but even before the Nu52-boot DC had decades worth of continuity that simply didn't happen. Hundreds, thousands appearances of characters that no longer mattered.

Street level characters in Marvel get more play than they do in DC; and those characters have more appearances than their DC counter parts do. Lets take a look at the numbers. These are from comicvine, they include a bunch of trades, and foreign language reprints in their numbering, so they aren't 100% accurate but close enough for our purposes.

Marvel Street Level Appearances:

Spider-man: 9675
Wolverine: 9789
Captain America: 6870
Daredevil: 2889
Black Panther: 1565
Deadpool 1248
Punisher: 1778
Iron Fist: 1381
Hawkeye: 2903
Winter Soldier: 1306
Black Widow: 1970
Elektra: 661
Nick Fury: 2837
Shang-Chi: 477
Moon Knight: 763
Gambit: 2936
Psylock: 2687

Total: 51735

DC Street Level Appearances:

Batman: 10097
Catwoman: 1339
Nightwing: 4322
Tim Drake: 1818
Jason Todd: 510
Lady Shiva: 141
Cassandra Cain: 347
Green Arrow: 2267
Barbra Gordon: 1723
Deathstroke: 621
Black Canary: 1882
Katana: 412
Huntress: 632
Arsenal: 1274
Wildcat: 894
Bronze Tiger: 192
Richard Dragon: 67

Total: 28538

That's a pretty significant difference between the two, and I was being generous to DC with some of those character inclusions. I left some notable Marvels off the list and I could start adding freaking White Tiger, The Daughters of the Dragon or Mockingbird based on the fame and quality of some of those DC "namesakes". Again - the Marvel characters don't have their continuity segmented by various large scale reboots. Ignoring alt realities and what ifs, all of those appearances for the Marvel characters still matter. The dearth of comic time DC streets get compared to their Marvel counter parts is big reason why DC streets don't stack up to Marvels... but it isn't the biggest.

The majority of Marvel's streets are super powered in some manner or another and their feats reflect that when compared side by side to their DC counter parts. Each character is also given the opportunity to shine independent of one another. No writer is worrying how what Captain America does might reflect on Punisher, or how Daredevil relates to Shang-Chi they are there own characters, their on franchises with no intrinsic tie to one another for the most part. In DC 90% of streets are part of the Batfamily.

DC's streets largely consists of Batman and a bunch Batman underlings and side characters. He is the anchor and focal point of the DC street level scene and ever other character is shackled to him in how they operate and what sort of feats the can accomplish. A Batman-governor regulating everyone's abilities, keeping everyone in line so the poster boy looks good. Marvel doesn't have that, and if it did, it would be Spider-man... which is obviously a much higher bar to work under.

Marvel's streets have more feats. They have better feats. Why? Because they have more appearances. More of their appearances are in continuity. The majoirty of them have superhuman abilities and physical attributes that allows them to operate on a higher level than the characters in DC do.

DC is the Batman show. In Marvel characters are allowed to exist on their own merit, and they do. It's all pretty elementary. Stronger, Faster, More skilled characters with more appearances. I mean... do the math.

People want to pretend that there is some sort of parity between the two companies on every level. There isn't. Why would there be? They have different goals and are run very differently. Marvel's street level roster, is deeper, more diverse, more powerful and most of all marketed more. That's not a bias, THAT'S AN OBJECTIVE FACT that should be blatantly obvious to anyone who even the SLIGHTEST interest in the comic medium. Why would DC streets be the equal of Marvels? It's mathematically improbable and - clearly - categorically untrue. Marvel publishes more street level comics than DC does, featuring more characters than DC does, those characters are more powerful than DC's characters are, and their character's histories are rebooted every two decades. I f@cking wonder, which company has the stronger street level characters? Who could it be? What a f@cking mystery!

Jesus Christ.

Feel free to try and rebut anything I've said.

tl;dr

But srankmissingnin made a salient point about DC's constant reboots. Even if we just pretend everything post-Crisis counts... that still limits DC to post-1985 or so. Whereas Marvel is everything post-1963 at worst.

Originally posted by ODG
Has a DC herald level magic user restarted the universe in a fight using magic?

which marvel herald are you talking about

on dc earth alone there are 50 mages that can unmake reality on a whim

https://i.ibb.co/cDQKQRt/12.jpg

Sure they can.

That's why they keep being non-factors in every event

Let's face it... DC is all about flying bricks and little else.

https://i.ibb.co/0Y1gcB2/3.jpg

that's because those were the books you focused on

jld and jsa for example

Originally posted by MrMind
which marvel herald are you talking about Clearly nobody would ever suspect this Marvel magic user of this, but I am referring to Dr. Strange.

i thought you meant wanda


when has strange restarted the universe?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
https://i.ibb.co/0Y1gcB2/3.jpg

Was tempted to post that scene

Originally posted by ODG
Clearly nobody would ever suspect this Marvel magic user of this, but I am referring to Dr. Strange.

He knew damn well you had Strange in mind.

Mind will just sooner die than acknowledge any of the Marvel feats. What else is new. The feat got reposted dozens of times, it's hardly a novelty.

Originally posted by MrMind
i thought you meant wanda


when has strange restarted the universe?

After the Galactus fight.

Don't pretend you forgot, love.

doctor strange 17?

stilt, love, it's friday night, i'm barely remembering my own existence

Originally posted by MrMind
i thought you meant wanda


when has strange restarted the universe? Totally forgot about Wanda.

In which case:

Magic - Marvel, slightly definitely

Originally posted by MrMind
doctor strange 17?

stilt, love, it's friday night, i'm barely remembering my own existence



True, amazing to see you online today. And yes, story written by Waid.

I'm jelly. Enjoying a break before my liver turns to dust.

Originally posted by ODG
Totally forgot about Wanda.

In which case:

Magic - Marvel, slightly definitely

again, explain why

zatanna did something similar, aka awaken the universe in seven soldiers, and zatanna isn't even ranked in dc

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


True, amazing to see you online today. And yes, story written by Waid.

I'm jelly. Enjoying a break before my liver turns to dust.

i had sex with this hot ass girl but forgot my tissot watch and gold bracelet at her place, then she blocked me without i getting the items back

im super pissed drinking myself to sleep, this new job is relentless.

b2b sales in my industry is so so competitive

My dude. Bitches always want our stuff and cash, sex is just a bonus for them.

You got robbed, basically. Probably not the first time, eh?

But you still like your current job more than the old one?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


My dude. Bitches always want our stuff and cash, sex is just a bonus for them.

You got robbed, basically. Probably not the first time, eh?

def not the first time

which to me is kinda sad, cause she wouldve gotten way more if she played it smart and keep me around

im just glad i ended with the crazy before she gets a chance to suck my soul out, so blessing in disguise

One night stands give them far more leeway and freedom.

I've got a Tissot watch for sale if anyone is interested.

Bro... I need to ask...

No. Forget it. I don't want to know. Keep your secrets

Did he last 5 minutes at least?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
But you still like your current job more than the old one?

absolutely, it's so challenging it's actually fun

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Bro... I need to ask...

No. Forget it. I don't want to know. Keep your secrets

Did he last 5 minutes at least?

bro the girl i fuked was actually a transgender this time

i talked about it in the eternal sunshine thread

i pm'd you what she looks like

Stop sending my pics without my permission

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Stop sending my pics without my permission

shhhhh ds i saw what you looked like you handsome devil

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Good Post, everything is canon now.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Was tempted to post that scene



He knew damn well you had Strange in mind.

Mind will just sooner die than acknowledge any of the Marvel feats. What else is new. The feat got reposted dozens of times, it's hardly a novelty.



After the Galactus fight.

Don't pretend you forgot, love.
Strange didn't restart the universe by his magical power, the universe had reduced to a proto state which was suggestible to Strange's magic.

Leave it to dumbo to unable to understand som.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Good Post, everything is canon now.

If only DC acted like it, instead of reshuffling the deck every week, every book relaunch...

Feels like nothing really counts there anymore rather than vice versa, tbh.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
If only DC acted like it, instead of reshuffling the deck every week, every book relaunch...

Feels like nothing really counts there anymore rather than vice versa, tbh.
Marvel has never respected continuity after shooter left.

Both are as bad, just marvel has never rebooted and now DC has done the same.

Originally posted by MrMind
again, explain why

zatanna did something similar, aka awaken the universe in seven soldiers, and zatanna isn't even ranked in dc Evidence was already provided.

Disingenuously repeating the same question while ignoring responsive answers doesn't actually extend the discussion. It just signals the end of it.

Originally posted by ODG
Evidence was already provided.

Disingenuously repeating the same question while ignoring responsive answers doesn't actually extend the discussion. It just signals the end of it.

all im saying is what you presented isn't as impressive as you think

^ This coming from the guy who alluded to Zatanna in Seven Soldiers.

Originally posted by ODG
^ This coming from the guy who alluded to Zatanna in Seven Soldiers.

i mean yeah... mordru was just recently throwing around power that can split universe like chump change, warping comic panels

why are you so weird

DC magic users are generally higher than Marvel's, imo. Just 3 herald mages were able to completey stop time across the Omniverse.

enzeru has the ability to be so confident on being so wrong

There is a few huge problems with this quote of StiltmanFTW from page

Obviously all characters have had more appearances since this was posted but most of the DC characters have double or more than double while the Marvel characters appearances for the most part have increased by half the number they had when posted.

Currently
Dick Grayson has made over 9000 appearances not 4k
Tim Drake 3000 not 1800
Roy Harper over 2000 not 1200
Jason Todd 1500 not 500
Lady Shiva 275 not 141
Bertinelli Huntress has made over 1000 appearances a d Helena Wayne almost 400 so between them aroumd 1500 not 600
Deathstroke 1200 not 621
Green Arrow nearly 4000 not 3000
Katana is almost 900 not 400
Ted Grant Wildcat has 1200 appearances and Yolanda over 100 so 1300 not 894
Cassandra Cain has 724 not 347

While Cap is 11000 not just under 7000
Wolverine 15000 not just under 10000
Daredevil is 4500 not just onder 3000
Etc.

DC aren't publishing as many titles as Marvel and haven't been since Nu52 so how are their numbers grown so much in comparison?

Secondly there seems to be a hell of a lot more DC Street Level characters missing than Marvel

Batwoman
Azrael
Question
Manhunter (there're been at least 4 of them)
Mr Terrific
Sumo
Cheshire
Constantine Drakon
David Cain
O- Sensai/Sensai
Merlin
Ras Al Ghul
Karate Kid

Then there's like 3 dozen golden age characters who's histories are still canon and referred to in post crisis JSA, inf Inc. Characters like

Crimson Avenger (only first one due to ppwers of 2nd)
Judo Master (only 1st due to powers of Second) and wing

Meanwhile I can only think of a few onnthe Marvel side missing
Swordsman
Stick
Bullseye
Kingpin
Gamora
USAgent


Bare in mind I'm only counting non powered purely skilled characters from both sides. I wouldn't count Spiderman or Logan as Street which is why I'm not including Argus, and some of those legacies I mentioned.

Finally a number of appearances doesn't mean crap.bif a new character was created tomorrow who in combat soloed a few top tier h2h characters and never appeared again s/he would still be above those characters despite their number of appearances.

I dont think either can claim an upper hand in combat skill really but that argument doesn't make a case of worth imho

Re Magic I think DC has more magic based characters than Marvel.

Teams like JLD, shadowpact, Sentinels of Magic.
Magic gods like Lords of Order and Chaos, the pantheon that exist because those lords assumed God forms and the worship to them created gods when the LOO,/LOC abandoned the guise (like Greek Gods)
The various biblical characters like all the angels and minions of hell.
Those that serve said biblical characters like Spectre, Stranger, Deadman
Then you have all the non affiliated mystics like Dr Occult, Ibis, Saigon, Zatanna, Zatara, Merlin, White Witch, Arion, the minions of GEM World, the Fairy, silver Sorceress, Bloodwynde, Klarion, Enchantress, Black Alice

At Marvel you have the hell Lords the various entities that mystic call on (Cyttorak, agamotto etc), those powered by them. Order and Chaos,the gods at Marvel are more celestial/cosmic power than magic which knocks a large chunk out of what should be a matching equation.
Strange, Mordo, Morgan Le Fey, Merlin, Dr Druid, Wong, Brother Voodoo, Devil Slayer, Hellstrom and his sister, Loki, Dormammu, Enchantress, Scarlet Witch (and her son) etc are all just a little out numbered.

We have a direct confirmation in a canon crossover that DC magic is stronger than marvel magic lol

marvel can't compete with dc in reality warping and magic

if any marvel fanboys wanna open a seperate thread comparing feats, i will gladly school them

Originally posted by MrMind
i mean yeah... mordru was just recently throwing around power that can split universe like chump change, warping comic panels

why are you so weird I'm pretty sure I know what you're referring to -- in which case, lol -- but indulge me and tell me which Mordru appearance you're relying on to make such a statement.

Originally posted by ODG
I'm pretty sure I know what you're referring to -- in which case, lol -- but indulge me and tell me which Mordru appearance you're relying on to make such a statement.

the recent jld appearance, you don't seriously think strange or wanda can compete on that level do you?

Originally posted by MrMind
the recent jld appearance, you don't seriously think strange or wanda can compete on that level do you? I feel like the effort is wasted but I would implore you to reread Mordru's actual involvement in Justice League Dark v.2 #10-12.

But I mean... we can discuss it if you want after you've reread them.

Originally posted by ODG
I feel like the effort is wasted but I would implore you to reread Mordru's actual involvement in Justice League Dark v.2 #10-12.

But I mean... we can discuss it if you want after you've reread them.

never knew this way of debating but ok ill go reread it just for the sake of arguments, not like my time is valuable, ill post the scans when i done watching yugioh

this is only mid tier level magic in dc, we haven't gotten into the realm of lucifer and michael yet

https://i.ibb.co/fYgp64m/12.jpg https://i.ibb.co/N6GkcjY/13.jpg https://i.ibb.co/BG3vP7Y/14.jpg https://i.ibb.co/5LSXCJ8/15.jpg https://i.ibb.co/kQhRFBq/16.jpg https://i.ibb.co/jrRtDpJ/17.jpg

^ Please describe why Mordru's statement proves your assertion that Mordru was "just recently throwing around power that can split universe like chump change" when we have the rest of the comic storyline to see what actually happens?

that gem has the power to rip the universe in half

mordru gave it to zatanna and ww if i remember correctly

he handed it to them that power like how i hand 1 dollar bill to homeless guy on the street

^ You clearly haven't read the comics much less your own scan.

We can continue the discussion when you actually read Justice League Dark v.2 #10-12.

concession accepted

^ Never go quanlite, yo.

Originally posted by abhilegend
We have a direct confirmation in a canon crossover that DC magic is stronger than marvel magic lol

Boom!

and that was back when dc was in their weakest, the early 2000s

^ Welp, when you have to resort to nearly 20 year old crossovers that are banned per CBvF rules, I suppose there's no point to attempting constructive discussion. Color me surprised.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SinfulSaltyFishingcat-size_restricted.gif

well it's at least something

the marvel side so far has not provide anything for us to work with

the absence of proof is what we aim for nowadays i guess

Originally posted by MrMind
well it's at least something

the marvel side so far has not provide anything for us to work with It's actually nothing but a thinly veiled attempt at trolling given it violates CBvF rules.

Because distorted allusions to Zatanna in Seven Soldiers and Mordru in Justice League Dark v.2 #10-12 actually override well-documented feats from Wanda in House of M and Dr. Strange in Doctor Strange v3 #12-17. Originally posted by MrMind
the absence of proof is what we aim for nowadays i guess I mean...

https://media.giphy.com/media/d40bNfj0uAS0E/giphy.gif

Originally posted by MrMind
and that was back when dc was in their weakest, the early 2000s

Yeah, DC has had a multitude of high end mages and mystical beings of all kinds. It's not even close, IMO.