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what might jango have done differently to survive the duel he had with mace windu?

the only thing he shouldn't have done was getting trampled by the Reek, that damaged his jetpack so he couldn't fly away when Mace made his final run

Good question John....... Jango is a PUNK!!..


I just got through watching ep I... Again,,, I feel myself more the padawan........

He could have NOT attacked Windu in the first place.

That said, it was odd they had to fight at all, seeing as Windu had his sabre at Janho's throat earlier- a threat to kill him if Dooku tried something which Windu simply did not carry out! Despite having plenty of tiem to when the droids approached. Oh well.

a jedi cant kill someone in cold blood, regardless of how evil they are, right? jango was defenseless. for mace to strike him down then would have been of the dark side. this is what ive been led to believe, anyway.

Then Mace holding that sabre to Jango's throat at all was an utterly pointless gesture. I agree a Jedi should not kill in cold blood but he was really achieving nothing there. He could at least have disabled Jango.

probably he was letting jango know that if he made a move" i will kill you". sort of like when a cop pulls his gun and yells"FREEZE, POLICE!" if you make a move, they will open fire.

Mace was just tellin dooku to stop the fight. So padme,Anakin, and Obi1 could live.

I agree that Jango's unfortunate trampling was probably the mitigating factor leading up to his death. Remember, it was only his jet-pack that saved him when he met Obi-Wan a few scenes before.

No grounded non-Jedi can hope to best a Jedi when a few scant feet is all that separates them.

If you look, he was actually surprised. When Mace is running forward, a little burst of smoke and sparks come out of the jet thrusters. He would have timed it perfectly, and escaped in a very cool way. But, time and money was short, so Lucas decided to have him trampled instead.

The fact that he TRIED to escape doesn't negate the sorrow, but it softens the blow a bit.

maybe he should have done a "fly by", you know like an LA drive by! his biggest mistake was diving for maces lightsaber.

Mace was playing for high stakes; he had made the threat on Jango, and he should have carried it out. If a cop points a gun at someone in a gang and tells the gang to stop and the gang tries to kill him, no-one would blame the cop for shooting the guy before attending to his own needs; he gave perfectly adequate warning!

As it is, Jango killed another Jedi before Windu had to kill him the hard way. Though not THAT hard, for Windu...

nah it was a pretty easy kill, as easy as kill Jango had of that Jedi council member

but mace killed him in battle, not while he was defenseless.

I'd say, at that point, he was pretty defenseless.

Look, the moment Windu lowered his sabre Jango was taking a crack at him with the flamethrower. This was not some innocent civilian- it was a highly dangerous criminal whom Windu had put under forcilbe armed restraint. Jedi are not pacifists; they have to be prepared to kill under guidelines of reasonable force. Windu did not kill him out of hand- he made a reasonable threat to Jango and only endangered himself and everyone else by not carrying it through.

you cant just kill someone in cold blood. ESPECIALLY if you are a jedi. are you saying that mace would have been justified if he took jangos head right away? regardless of how dangerous a person is, thats murder. i know that sounds crazy, it sounded crazy when i was typing it. but its the way i see things.

But Jango had a gun, just like Xan had one in the club.

Duke it out like he did with Ob1

sorry, but it would probably be a weapons based battle.

AND, his gun wasnt drawn. he was watching the executions. he was defenseless.

?? I could of sworn Jango was shooting at Mace as he came at him!? Or do you mean when he held it up to his neck.... "Partys over!"

no, were talking about when mace first shows up. dooku, nute gunray an jango are on the balcony watching the executions. mace snuck up and held his saber at jangos throat. you are talking about when they are actually in the gladiator pit.

It's not murder if the person is going to try and kill you if you let him go- which is what Jango did. And like I say, Windu holding his sabre to Jango's throat at all was otherwise pointless.

This is why I dont come here that much anymore Rogue. Slacker dosent have people who abuse their power on the boards by closing them for little reasons.

then subdue him. i know that for mace to subdue jango would have been near impossible, what with dooku right there, but i just dont agree that mace could have struck him down with a clear conscience.

SimK68- please keep such comments out of the threads, that was not even vaguely on-topic. Nor is it an abuse of power for me to close a thread which had NO business being in this area- it is in fact my responsibility to do so.

If you have problems with the way things are run, keep them in private. But in the meanwhile we are very happy with the way we run things here.

I think striking Jango down was the onyl thing Mace could have reasonably done in that circumstance; I am sure he could just just disabled him if he wanted.

well, i happen to think that just walking up and striking him down is rather extreme, "a jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, NEVER FOR ATTACK." remember that? ps- disregard my pm, ush. my computer is fine now. thanx for the response.

Seeing as Mace Windu brought his Jedi there on an offensive strike we can only assume that 'NEVER for attack' comment was not meant to be taken literally. As I say, Windu gave Fett clear warning, he didn't just kill him out of hand, he made a reasonable threat for any lawmaker to make, and it would have been consistent with his duty to carry that out if he believed his life or the lives of others was and were in danger, which was so.

yes, but to walk up, not say a word, ignite his saber and strike him down? THAT would have been of the dark side.

No no, strike him down after the bad guys tried something! That was the point, wasn't it? he held the sabre there as in "Try anything and he dies." And they tried something! And then Jango tried to kill him!

heres another question. when jango and mace were fighting in the execution pit and mace was bearing down on jango. its obvious his jetpack was damaged, so he couldnt escape via the air. but, as mace is blocking his blaster bolts, why didnt jango use his flamethrower again? it might have caused mace to back off or leap away, giving jango more room to work with.

I think Jango's blaster was his favourite weapon and the one he thought he was most likely to do any good with.

Well your making it a problem right now, so youre no better than me bringing out here in the open. You also could of simply 'PM-ed' me

still, ush. dont you think that in that situation the flamethrower would have been more effective?

Why didnt Janga's head fall out when Boba picked up his helmet??

maybe because the helmet was a perfect fit, like a football helmet.

OWW MY EARS!!! by the way rogue..do you happen to know who the cgi human was in sw??

uh,no. which episode?

not sure rogue..i read that on a post in the hulk forums..they were complaining about hulk looking fake and someone defended cgi achievements by saying they had to be told a human in SW was cgi..no specification on which episode..im assuming II

The head DID fall out, watch for the shadow.

And Sim, that was making you an example to others so it does not happen again, see?

Both Obi-Wan and Count Dooku have cgi moments in AOTC which are VERY well blended in- to the point where, indeed, people have not noticed it has been done!

yeah, with all the technology they have now, its a wonder they use live actors at all anymore.

hey all , i saw this thread and im a big Mandalorain fan ( lol ) and Boba and Jango are Mandalorains so I tihnk if Jangos jetpack was still working and he had 2 blasters he could of won , and altohught jedi arent suppose to kill out of cold blood if he didnt kill Jango the Jedi might of lost several other deaths

what diesn't make anysense jango has already taken down a jedi a phychotic jedi at that who i have suspects was on the darkside but i coudl be wrong but stil that isn't the poitn i think jango shoudl have won oh and mandalorian fan youre wrong jango and bobba are not mandalorians jango was taken in by mandalorian warriors he wasn't a mandalorian and boba was jango's clone jango is human or humanoid i cant be saure if he is pure earhtlign because well it is difficult to tell

They in a middle of a battle he deflected the laser bolts and neatly cut his head off, that wasn't cold blood no way, sure he felt bad about it but its a duel any they totally under rated Mace anyway in clone wars cartoon he takes down an army of battle droids on his own without his lightsabre for the most part.

true !

yea ur right Gray Fox , about Jango and Boba . srry

Originally posted by grey fox
what diesn't make anysense jango has already taken down a jedi a phychotic jedi at that who i have suspects was on the darkside but i coudl be wrong but stil that isn't the poitn i think jango shoudl have won oh and mandalorian fan youre wrong jango and bobba are not mandalorians jango was taken in by mandalorian warriors he wasn't a mandalorian and boba was jango's clone jango is human or humanoid i cant be saure if he is pure earhtlign because well it is difficult to tell

Well yes, Jango did do this (Komari Vosa is the dark jedi he took down), but he did that with all of his equipment still intact. Against Mace, he'd lost his jetpack and I assume also his flamethrower, since they drew from the same fuel source. AND he was down to ONE pistol as his only remaining weapon.

That's why I get so irritated when jedi fans make a big deal about this fight like it proved anything about jedi vs. top-end bounty hunters. Fact is, Mace DIDN'T beat Jango Fett -- the reek did. Or to put it another way, Lucas and the plot did. Mace was just an opportunist (granted, I probably would have been as well in the same situation) who jumped on a golden opportunity to take an easy win against a largely disabled opponent.

A similar fight (in terms of fairness to the characters) would have been Jango with all of his gear intact versus Mace with his lightsaber shorted out. In which case, of course, Jango would have killed Mace in less time than it takes to say, "The Force is NOT with you."

There was a duel?
All I remember is "zap, swoosh, thunk".

Originally posted by Red Superfly
There was a duel?
All I remember is "zap, swoosh, thunk".

No, there wasn't a duel, in fact. Like I said, Mace never really FOUGHT Jango. Not really. No more than Jango capping Mace without his lightsaber at hand would have been a real fight either.

The "duel" was just PIS so Lucas could do away with Jango without having to deal with the fact that he could easily have put up a real fight. Kind of a missed opportunity, too, since it also left a question in the minds of those who were really paying attention: could Mace have actually beaten a full-strength Jango?

Maybe he could have, but he remains forever unproven in that area. Sorry, Mace fans.

Mace is a jedi in his prime... jango is a mercenary... even with all his training... he's no force user...

Mace would wipe the floor with him...

PIS was jango killing that other jedi...

Originally posted by pr1983
Mace is a jedi in his prime... jango is a mercenary... even with all his training... he's no force user...

Mace would wipe the floor with him...

PIS was jango killing that other jedi...

PIS is jedi existing at all. PIS is the Force. PIS is ... get the picture?

It's establised cannon that Jango killed Komari Vosa ... as well as at least one jedi before he faced Mace, too. You don't have to like it, but it's cannon anyway and is just as valid as any Force or lightsaber feat.

It's also a simple fact that he was down to one pistol with no other functioning equipment when he faced Mace, who in turn was at full strength with a fully functioning lightsaber.

Therefore, it's a simple fact that Mace is unproven versus a full-strength Jango ... and forever will be.

Like it. Or. Not.

yes... because beating palpatine is below beating jango...

Originally posted by Orestes
Well yes, Jango did do this (Komari Vosa is the dark jedi he took down), but he did that with all of his equipment still intact. Against Mace, he'd lost his jetpack and I assume also his flamethrower, since they drew from the same fuel source. AND he was down to ONE pistol as his only remaining weapon.

That's why I get so irritated when jedi fans make a big deal about this fight like it proved anything about jedi vs. top-end bounty hunters. Fact is, Mace DIDN'T beat Jango Fett -- the reek did. Or to put it another way, Lucas and the plot did. Mace was just an opportunist (granted, I probably would have been as well in the same situation) who jumped on a golden opportunity to take an easy win against a largely disabled opponent.

A similar fight (in terms of fairness to the characters) would have been Jango with all of his gear intact versus Mace with his lightsaber shorted out. In which case, of course, Jango would have killed Mace in less time than it takes to say, "The Force is NOT with you."

Dude.. did you even WATCH AOTC or just read the junior novelization? There is no bigger Jango/Boba fan on th eplanet than I am but fact is.. Jango had his ass handed to him.. so he lost his precious jet pack.. Helluva warrior that cant even keep his weapons & gear working properly huh?
Jango is a bounty hunter, supposedly a professional.. he's an amateur with an ego problem at best against mace.
Mace is not an opportunist . he's a strategist .. but WTF does it really matter? In a fight last man standing wins no matter what cliche fanboys attach to your motives.. If Jango was 'disabled' then thats his own fault for not being a better fighter.. he's a bounty hunter, an assasin.. he is used to teh element oif surprise as his ally.. in a one on one fight he has no real experience interms of fighting someone as strong in the jedi arts as MAce.. he's just outskilled so he lost his head.. and yes he really did.. yoiu can see th ehead gfall out of teh helmut in that scene..
Jango WITH all his gear would still not have betean a weaponless Mace.. there is more to being a jedi & force user than sabers babe

Originally posted by bilb
Dude.. did you even WATCH AOTC or just read the junior novelization? There is no bigger Jango/Boba fan on th eplanet than I am but fact is.. Jango had his ass handed to him.. so he lost his precious jet pack.. Helluva warrior that cant even keep his weapons & gear working properly huh?
Jango is a bounty hunter, supposedly a professional.. he's an amateur with an ego problem at best against mace.
Mace is not an opportunist . he's a strategist .. but WTF does it really matter? In a fight last man standing wins no matter what cliche fanboys attach to your motives.. If Jango was 'disabled' then thats his own fault for not being a better fighter.. he's a bounty hunter, an assasin.. he is used to teh element oif surprise as his ally.. in a one on one fight he has no real experience interms of fighting someone as strong in the jedi arts as MAce.. he's just outskilled so he lost his head.. and yes he really did.. yoiu can see th ehead gfall out of teh helmut in that scene..
Jango WITH all his gear would still not have betean a weaponless Mace.. there is more to being a jedi & force user than sabers babe

Tsk, tsk.

I didn't say there was anything inherently wrong with Mace taking advantage of the situation. All I said is that Jango was far from at full strength ... and that is a fact.

Yes, I saw the movie. I also thumbed through the novelization by R.A. Salvatore, which interestingly enough provided a much better fight scene (I would have given credit to Mace had the fight transpired on-screen the way it did in the book -- which I think was based on the original script) wherein Mace still won ... but with considerable difficulty.

Now. Fact is, Jango got trampled by a rather. Large. Beast. It was (arguably) his skill that kept him from being killed right then and there, and it was (definitely) his skill that enabled him to then kill the creature with a single blaster shot. Fact is, had Mace's lightsaber been put through the same abuse that Jango's jetpack was, he would have faced a similiar problem, so nitpicking at Jango like that was somehow his fault is silly and unfair. It's just one of those "chaos of battle" things that went very much against him.

And NO, there is NO way in hell that Mace would have survived without his lightsaber. It's a cannon fact that Jango killed Komari Vosa straight up. Killing an unarmed Mace with a blaster at that range would have been child's play for him. To say otherwise is simply ludicrous.

Basically, each fighter needed a certain tool to survive the fight: for Mace, it was his lightsaber, and for Jango, it was his jetpack. Third-party interference removed the jetpack from the equation. Lucky break for Mace, sure ... but no actual proof of his ability to win a straight fight.

It actually reminds me of one of the many Drizzt/Entrari duels (from R.A. Salvatore's "dark elf" books). They're fighting on totally even terms, and then Drizzt's forehead happens by accident to strike Entrari in a way that gives him an advantage. Even after he wins the duel, Drizzt himself points out that it proved nothing -- that just because his forehead struck his opponent's "in an advantageous way," it didn't automatically make him the better fighter.

In much the same way, Mace was not proven the better fighter. He might have been. But thanks to the jetpack fiasco, we can only speculate.

I'm honestly going to ask this once...

going by canon... what makes you honestly believe he could beat mace in a fair fight?

Originally posted by Orestes
Tsk, tsk.

I didn't say there was anything inherently wrong with Mace taking advantage of the situation. All I said is that Jango was far from at full strength ... and that is a fact.

Yes, I saw the movie. I also thumbed through the novelization by R.A. Salvatore, which interestingly enough provided a much better fight scene (I would have given credit to Mace had the fight transpired on-screen the way it did in the book -- which I think was based on the original script) wherein Mace still won ... but with considerable difficulty.

Now. Fact is, Jango got trampled by a rather. Large. Beast. It was (arguably) his skill that kept him from being killed right then and there, and it was (definitely) his skill that enabled him to then kill the creature with a single blaster shot. Fact is, had Mace's lightsaber been put through the same abuse that Jango's jetpack was, he would have faced a similiar problem, so nitpicking at Jango like that was somehow his fault is silly and unfair. It's just one of those "chaos of battle" things that went very much against him.

And NO, there is NO way in hell that Mace would have survived without his lightsaber. It's a cannon fact that Jango killed Komari Vosa straight up. Killing an unarmed Mace with a blaster at that range would have been child's play for him. To say otherwise is simply ludicrous.

Basically, each fighter needed a certain tool to survive the fight: for Mace, it was his lightsaber, and for Jango, it was his jetpack. Third-party interference removed the jetpack from the equation. Lucky break for Mace, sure ... but no actual proof of his ability to win a straight fight.

It actually reminds me of one of the many Drizzt/Entrari duels (from R.A. Salvatore's "dark elf" books). They're fighting on totally even terms, and then Drizzt's forehead happens by accident to strike Entrari in a way that gives him an advantage. Even after he wins the duel, Drizzt himself points out that it proved nothing -- that just because his forehead struck his opponent's "in an advantageous way," it didn't automatically make him the better fighter.

In much the same way, Mace was not proven the better fighter. He might have been. But thanks to the jetpack fiasco, we can only speculate.

A - the novelizations suck Whenever someone quotes them as a reason in a debate .. well its just a big red "I AM A FANBOY' sign so wear it if you want but its just plain silly

B- It wsnt Jangos SKILL that killed th eReek.. thats a polthole by Lucas.. taht animal can do ALL THAT damage & yet is taken out by a measly 'phew' from Jango's weak ass blaster? please.. that was no skill.. it was a script malfunction

C- Jangos' jetpack is NOT his primary weapon.. its an upgrade akin to maual vs. power locks on a new car.. its a luxury not a necessity

D - Killing an unarmed Jedi WOULD be difficult - see theres thins thing called the force, it surrounds us, it binds the universe together.. you shoul dcheck into .. its pretty cool once you master it

E - what does a dwarf elf book have to do with SW?

Originally posted by pr1983
I'm honestly going to ask this once...

going by canon... what makes you honestly believe he could beat mace in a fair fight?

I didn't say he could. But since it's cannon that he killed Komari Vosa in a fair fight, it's worth calling into question. Since there never WAS a fair fight between him and Mace, we can only speculate.

Originally posted by Orestes
I didn't say he could. But since it's cannon that he killed Komari Vosa in a fair fight, it's worth calling into question. Since there never WAS a fair fight between him and Mace, we can only speculate.

and i speculate a jedi master in his prime, who is arguably second only to yoda, is going to kick jango's ass...

there was plenty of jedi cannon fodder in geonosis, i'd count Komari Vosa as one of em...

If you'll please re-read what I wrote, you'll notice that I didn't actually use the novelization as a supporting point. Instead, I alluded to it as an aside in order to give some indication of what I'm aware of, then went on to argue the situation from the point of view of the movie rather than the book.

That said, I think the position you're taking regarding the movie versus the novelization is really unreasonable ... but even if it weren't, it's irrelevant to my argument because I'm not arguing the book anyway.

Please, let's not sink to insults. Okay?



I'm not sure how to react to this. The main thrust of your argument seems to be "the script is right when I want it to be and wrong when it doesn't suit me." I can certainly say that you'd be surprised how easily a large beast can be taken out with a precisely aimed shot to the braincase. But instead, I'd be inclined to ask why the script as it was wasn't good enough for you.

Does that mean I can call Jango's death a script malfunction? How about his jetpack's failure?

Maybe we should stick to the script.



No. Against an opponent like a skilled jedi, it is a neccesity, akin to a chassis and seat to hold you in place while the car moves. Jango could not have defeated Komari Vosa -- as, again, HE DID -- without his jetpack.



It didn't save Komari Vosa, and she had BOTH of her lightsabers as well as plenty of the Force when this thing called a BLASTER BOLT killed her.

That same thing -- called a blaster bolt -- would kill an unarmed Mace far faster, since he would have no way to deflect it. That's why jedi carry lightsabers rather than standing there unarmed and trusting in the Force to stop blaster fire for them.

You should check into how jedi use lightsabers to defend against blaster fire. It's pretty cool how lightsabers make the difference (usually) when they're being shot at.



Analogy. Illustration of a point. If the point I was making eludes you, nevermind. It's not critical.

Originally posted by pr1983
and i speculate a jedi master in his prime, who is arguably second only to yoda, is going to kick jango's ass...

there was plenty of jedi cannon fodder in geonosis, i'd count Komari Vosa as one of em...

Fair enough. How you choose to imagine the fight might have transpired -- had it happened -- is up to you.

I'd put Mace 1st and Yoda 2nd in episode 3 Mace neally beat palpatine but Yoda lost to palpatine. Mace kicks Jango's ass into our universe anyday

Originally posted by steverules
I'd put Mace 1st and Yoda 2nd in episode 3 Mace neally beat palpatine but Yoda lost to palpatine. Mace kicks Jango's ass into our universe anyday

It sure would've been interesting to see if he could have done it, wouldn't it?

Shame they never really fought. I'd've loved to have seen. Tsk.

Originally posted by Orestes

If the point I was making eludes you, nevermind. It's not critical.

Nope didnt allude me dear.. just too busy having a life to give a damn

But you have fun obsesing over miunutia and inapproriate and inaacuate analogies!! Good luck with that!

I totally agree, if only Ani hadn't come and stopped him then we probably would have seen palpatine's death then and there but you know they had to keep him so that it would tie in with all the other movies.

Originally posted by bilb
Nope didnt allude me dear.. just too busy having a life to give a damn

But you have fun obsesing over miunutia and inapproriate and inaacuate analogies!! Good luck with that!

You know, you don't become somehow more right just because you repeatedly insult people who disagree with you. And it's actually possible to disagree wholeheartedly and still be cool with the other person.

Anyway, it's just my opinion, but I think it's much easier to enjoy that whole "having a life" thing if you can do it without carrying a chip on your shoulder. That said, do as you will. It's only your own heart you poison -- no skin off my back.

So good luck to you as well.

Originally posted by steverules
I totally agree, if only Ani hadn't come and stopped him then we probably would have seen palpatine's death then and there but you know they had to keep him so that it would tie in with all the other movies.

Well of course I was actually talking about the other fight, but sure ... that one, too. As far as Anni goes, it's just a shame to find out that the supposedly "hardcore" Darth Vader was always kind of a second-rate little punk. Well ... my opinion, once again.

i'm just at a loss to see how jango is so skilled... at all... sure he killed a jedi, who's attention was on dooku... he fought obi wan (who lost his saber quickly), and even with his ships help barely got out alive...

So what is it about jango?

Do you think Boba should have been the one to kill Mace?

Originally posted by steverules
Do you think Boba should have been the one to kill Mace?

u asking me?

I'm asking everyone.

Originally posted by steverules
I'm asking everyone.

Imo no... we saw what luke did to bobba close quarters... i think mace outclasses either man, and i honestly dont see how either could beat him one on one...

Good point I have friend who thought boba should be allowed revenge but if it was made it would probably be written by a boba fan.

Originally posted by pr1983
i'm just at a loss to see how jango is so skilled... at all... sure he killed a jedi, who's attention was on dooku... he fought obi wan (who lost his saber quickly), and even with his ships help barely got out alive...

So what is it about jango?

Boba was awesome (and yes thats a FACT paul! ) so Jango is as well by default


And I for one would have loved to see Boba kill Mace

Part of me would have liked to have seen Mace killed by Boba, but honestly, it probably would have been a bad idea ... if only because he would have been too young to justifiably have pulled it off. Then again, it would have been a great "vengeance" side-story.

But oh well.

pr1983: Part of it is just that I dislike jedi in general, I think (I'll be honest and candid: I have a serious problem with a philosophy that holds that, among other things, supressing your emotions is a key to enlightenment). Part of it is his costume was really cool -- come on; you know it was! And then of course there's the fact that characters who live in moral shades of grey appeal to me.

But okay. Seriously? The movie didn't show much of what Jango could do, other than he had a solid showing against Obi. And yeees, I know his objective was not to kill Jango, but I also don't recall a single moment when he COULD have killed Jango even if he'd been trying to. The fight with Mace, given the jetpack fiasco, was a non-fight. And I've said enough about that already.

But Jango's genuinely impressive feats are covered partly in Open Seasons (a graphic novel) and partly in ... well, frankly, in a game. Bounty Hunter. But whaddaya gonna do?

Anyway, as I said before, he defeated Komari Vosa among other things -- here's a link to her bio since I keep tossing that name out:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/komarivosa/eu.html

No, it doesn't prove he could beat any jedi who ever lived ... not by a long shot. But it does at the very least prove that it was not entirely beyond him to defeat an experienced Force-user in a direct confrontation, and it sheds a little light on why he was chosen as the template for a clone army in the first place.

Well they were able to make a darthvader vs darthmaul comic who's to say they won't make boba vs mace only boba would be older of coarse.

Originally posted by steverules
Well they were able to make a darthvader vs darthmaul comic who's to say they won't make boba vs mace only boba would be older of coarse.

It'd definitely have to be a "What if?" kind of thing since Mace is dead, but ... yeah.

Boba did get one shot at Mace in a little mini-series of kids' novels (which I thumbed through since I happen to work at a bookstore anyway, so hey ). He did better than you'd expect, but he still lost, although obviously he wasn't killed. But of course he was also still kind of young and nowhere near as experienced as he later becomes ... so take from that what you will.

Honestly, it would probably take a Boba Fett on the level he's reached by the end of the NJO series to actually go one-on-one with Mace with a decent chance of winning. By then, he's supposedly 18th level ... if you care about D20 stats. Mace was supposed to have been the same level when he died, I believe.

Well, of course D20 stats are hardly cannon material, though. But for whatever it's worth.

What was the mini series called?(Sounds like a good story).

Originally posted by steverules
What was the mini series called?(Sounds like a good story).

It was .. let's see ... okay, the larger collection of books it belongs to is "Clone Wars Novels." Each one about Boba was titled "Boba Fett" and then subtitled something else ... the last one being "Pursuit" (that's the one where he finally catches up with Mace). The five books before it pick up where the movie left off (with Jango's death) from Boba's point of view and go from there, and we get to see the beginnings of his career.

Cool. So after being beaten by mace what does boba do, does he fly away or something or does Mace just walk away?

Originally posted by bilb
Boba was awesome (and yes thats a FACT paul! ) so Jango is as well by default


And I for one would have loved to see Boba kill Mace

you would...

and tell me, when did hell freeze over, making opinion become fact?

Originally posted by Orestes
Part of me would have liked to have seen Mace killed by Boba, but honestly, it probably would have been a bad idea ... if only because he would have been too young to justifiably have pulled it off. Then again, it would have been a great "vengeance" side-story.

But oh well.

pr1983: Part of it is just that I dislike jedi in general, I think (I'll be honest and candid: I have a serious problem with a philosophy that holds that, among other things, supressing your emotions is a key to enlightenment). Part of it is his costume was really cool -- come on; you know it was! And then of course there's the fact that characters who live in moral shades of grey appeal to me.

But okay. Seriously? The movie didn't show much of what Jango could do, other than he had a solid showing against Obi. And yeees, I know his objective was not to kill Jango, but I also don't recall a single moment when he COULD have killed Jango even if he'd been trying to. The fight with Mace, given the jetpack fiasco, was a non-fight. And I've said enough about that already.

But Jango's genuinely impressive feats are covered partly in Open Seasons (a graphic novel) and partly in ... well, frankly, in a game. Bounty Hunter. But whaddaya gonna do?

Anyway, as I said before, he defeated Komari Vosa among other things -- here's a link to her bio since I keep tossing that name out:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/komarivosa/eu.html

No, it doesn't prove he could beat any jedi who ever lived ... not by a long shot. But it does at the very least prove that it was not entirely beyond him to defeat an experienced Force-user in a direct confrontation, and it sheds a little light on why he was chosen as the template for a clone army in the first place.

wow... i don't mean to be mean... i really don't... but this is the guy who bested palpatine (a sith lord ) one on one...

i dont consider eu to be honest because alot of it imo is written by guys who just want to show how much they lover their fave character...

a bounty hunter versus a jedi master... i know mace has a bad reputation... but even with full equipment i honestly cant see how jango or bobba would best him one on one...

and as for vosa, he may as well have shot him in the back...

Originally posted by steverules
Cool. So after being beaten by mace what does boba do, does he fly away or something or does Mace just walk away?

Actually, Mace offers to spare his life, Boba flatly refuses and prepares himself to die fighting, and then Senator Palpatine walks in (Boba had attacked Mace there) and effectively interrupts the battle. But it makes more sense if you read the whole thing.

Except where it conflicts with the movies (Lucas, you twit!), EU is considered cannon and in fact even carries the Lucas seal of approval. That's just the way it is, baby.



I can personally think of some BETTER methods than the ones Boba and Jango use ... but as far as that goes, I can still see how it would be theoretically possible for them, at least under the right circumstances.



Vosa was a woman, and the battle was very much face-to-face (and brutally difficult, I'm told -- I need to get that game myself ).

Originally posted by Orestes
Except where it conflicts with the movies (Lucas, you twit!), EU is considered cannon and in fact even carries the Lucas seal of approval. That's just the way it is, baby.

where did you hear that? eu is not canon, never has been...



theory is one thing, practicality is another...



k now im confused... who is vosa?

Oh yeah, and on this note:

I don't have any specific emotions about the Mace character in general ... EXCEPT that I feel it was a really bad role for a really great actor. Jedi are, by definition, supposed to be as emotionally flat as possible, and ... in a way, that's a problem when you as the audience are supposed to care about the character. There was no tragedy in Mace's death -- not for me, at least -- any more than there would be in the death of a random droid.

Sammy's one of my favorite actors, but to date, I consider Mace his absolute worst role of which I'm aware.

Originally posted by Orestes
Oh yeah, and on this note:

I don't have any specific emotions about the Mace character in general ... EXCEPT that I feel it was a really bad role for a really great actor. Jedi are, by definition, supposed to be as emotionally flat as possible, and ... in a way, that's a problem when you as the audience are supposed to care about the character. There was no tragedy in Mace's death -- not for me, at least -- any more than there would be in the death of a random droid.

Sammy's one of my favorite actors, but to date, I consider Mace his absolute worst role of which I'm aware.

I like Mace to be honest, sure he's cold, but he's a born leader... watching three jedi cut down in cold blood would make any jedi react the way mace did...

his death for me was a big moment in the movie...

Well, let's think for a second:

Lucas owns the entire Star Wars universe.

EU uses the Star Wars universe and its characters and could only be written and sold with his express approval.

Therefore, Lucas has officially and legally endorsed EU.

... guess that settles that. Next?



You say potato, I say potato -- wait, that doesn't come off right in text.



Here, again, is the link: http://www.starwars.com/databank/ch...arivosa/eu.html

Originally posted by Orestes
Well, let's think for a second:

Lucas owns the entire Star Wars universe.

EU uses the Star Wars universe and its characters and could only be written and sold with his express approval.

Therefore, Lucas has officially and legally endorsed EU.

... guess that settles that. Next?

its not canon, especially if it contradicts the movies...

endorsing something doesnt make it neccessarily official... ive seen george lucas say he doesnt read most of the novels that are published...


the link doesnt work for me, but look at the end of the link itself... EU... not canon...

Aw, hell. Here, try this: http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/komarivosa/eu.html

And again:

Lucas owns the Star Wars unverise.

Nothing can be published about that universe without Lucas's express approval.

Therefore, everything written about the Star Wars universe has been expressly approved by Locas. Whether he bothers to take responsibility and read what he approves is irrelevant. He owns it, and it's up to him to set limits on what does and doesn't get through. He gets no sympathy for being irresponsible and letting others effectively make his decisions for him.

You can rail against the facts 'till you're blue in the face, but at the end of the day, they're still facts.

Originally posted by Orestes
Aw, hell. Here, try this: http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/komarivosa/eu.html

And again:

Lucas owns the Star Wars unverise.

Nothing can be published about that universe without Lucas's express approval.

Therefore, everything written about the Star Wars universe has been expressly approved by Locas. Whether he bothers to take responsibility and read what he approves is irrelevant. He owns it, and it's up to him to set limits on what does and doesn't get through. He gets no sympathy for being irresponsible and letting others effectively make his decisions for him.

You can rail against the facts 'till you're blue in the face, but at the end of the day, they're still facts.

you still havent proven that eu is canon...

Originally posted by Orestes
Aw, hell. Here, try this: http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/komarivosa/eu.html

And again:

Lucas owns the Star Wars unverise.

Nothing can be published about that universe without Lucas's express approval.

Therefore, everything written about the Star Wars universe has been expressly approved by Locas. Whether he bothers to take responsibility and read what he approves is irrelevant. He owns it, and it's up to him to set limits on what does and doesn't get through. He gets no sympathy for being irresponsible and letting others effectively make his decisions for him.

You can rail against the facts 'till you're blue in the face, but at the end of the day, they're still facts.

dude.. EU has never, is not now nor will it ever be canon.. deal with it

just cause Lucas says 'yeah go ahead & write it so i can line my pockets somemore while giving fanboys even more idiotic mateiral to have wet dreams about' doesnt make it canon.. if THATS what you wanna discuss then GREAT - there's a whole forum for it.. otherwise quit wasting space

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
a jedi cant kill someone in cold blood, regardless of how evil they are, right? jango was defenseless. for mace to strike him down then would have been of the dark side. this is what ive been led to believe, anyway.


Still he could have led it to a better outcome.

The whole point of a copyright on intellectual property is so that nobody can profit from your ideas without your consent ... OR misrepresent them. Merely by virtue of giving someone the go-ahead, any author is effectively adding whatever the person produces to the collective lore of his/her creation. That's the way it is with everything. If Lucas didn't want EU to be part of Star Wars, then he shouldn't have said "go ahead." He did, and it is. That's just the way it works.

To suggest otherwise is utterly ludicrous and frankly is beneath debating further.

Well, you know what? I take that back. *I* find it ludicrous and see no reason to discuss it further, but if you want to see it that way, that's obviously your right. Feel free.

It basically just means there's nothing more to talk about in that direction. So there you go.

I only read some of this topic, but going back a ways...

Mace had his saber to Jango, and told Dooku that if he tried anything, Jango was dead. Dooku then surprised Mace by actually trying something - and before Mace could react, he was on fire. That's why Mace didn't kill Jango then and there.

Originally posted by Orestes
The whole point of a copyright on intellectual property is so that nobody can profit from your ideas without your consent ... OR misrepresent them. Merely by virtue of giving someone the go-ahead, any author is effectively adding whatever the person produces to the collective lore of his/her creation. That's the way it is with everything. If Lucas didn't want EU to be part of Star Wars, then he shouldn't have said "go ahead." He did, and it is. That's just the way it works.

To suggest otherwise is utterly ludicrous and frankly is beneath debating further.

Originally posted by Orestes
Well, you know what? I take that back. *I* find it ludicrous and see no reason to discuss it further, but if you want to see it that way, that's obviously your right. Feel free.

It basically just means there's nothing more to talk about in that direction. So there you go.

you STILL havent proven eu should or is considered canon...

Originally posted by pr1983
you STILL havent proven eu should or is considered canon...

I made my case for that more than adequately. I'm not going to bother repeating it, as any idiot should be able to read and understand it already, and those who can't are probably beyond my help no matter how much I attempt to explain.

At this point, you either agree with the stance I've taken based on Lucas giving the go-ahead to these people, or you do not. That's it. End of discussion. Thank you, and please drive through.

Wow... getting insulting just because someone disagrees with you... nice...

I understand it, i just dont agree...

Originally posted by Orestes
I made my case for that more than adequately. I'm not going to bother repeating it, as any idiot should be able to read and understand it already, and those who can't are probably beyond my help no matter how much I attempt to explain.

At this point, you either agree with the stance I've taken based on Lucas giving the go-ahead to these people, or you do not. That's it. End of discussion. Thank you, and please drive through.

keep up the bashing.. i DARE you.. rally PLEASE do it.. i sooooooooooooooo want you to

That's cool. It doesn't bother me at all that you disagree with my conclusions. But that's not what you said that I objected to at all. What I objected to was this:



That's not saying, "I disagree with your conclusions." That's saying, "You haven't made your case in the first place," which is a very different statement -- one to which I took strong exception. Furthermore, the tone of the post struck me, at least, as that of a person who's basically saying, "I challenge you to continue arguing with me about this," when as far as I can tell, there's nothing left for me to say about it.

That's why I said that at this point, you either agree with the stance I've taken, or you do not. Since we both understand each others' positions and simply don't agree, all we can really do now is argue for the sake of arguing or take turns repeating ourselves ad infinum ... both of which are pointless and silly, at least in my opinion.

Anyway, maybe I was too testy, too. I WAS in kind of an irritable mood that day for unrelated reasons, so ... sorry about that. But otherwise, seriously, I really don't want to continue arguing about this. I've said what I had to say, and I have no interest whatsoever in just arguing endlessly to no purpose.

Cool?

I didnt mean it to come accross as being condescending, that was not my intention...

sure...

I know it's really late in the argument, but several pages back, someone asked why Jango didn't use his flamethrower on Mace. It may be because his jetpack was disabled. The jetpack and the flamethrower run on the same fuel. If one is disabled, the other one might be, too.

Just call it a bump, and nobody minds as nobody ever comes here anyway.

Maybe you should start another thread like that in addition to thgis one in the versus forum, if it doesn't already exists. However, if such a thing already exists in that versus forum, then you can stick to that one.

Originally posted by Orestes
Well yes, Jango did do this (Komari Vosa is the dark jedi he took down), but he did that with all of his equipment still intact. Against Mace, he'd lost his jetpack and I assume also his flamethrower, since they drew from the same fuel source. AND he was down to ONE pistol as his only remaining weapon.

That's why I get so irritated when jedi fans make a big deal about this fight like it proved anything about jedi vs. top-end bounty hunters. Fact is, Mace DIDN'T beat Jango Fett -- the reek did. Or to put it another way, Lucas and the plot did. Mace was just an opportunist (granted, I probably would have been as well in the same situation) who jumped on a golden opportunity to take an easy win against a largely disabled opponent.

A similar fight (in terms of fairness to the characters) would have been Jango with all of his gear intact versus Mace with his lightsaber shorted out. In which case, of course, Jango would have killed Mace in less time than it takes to say, "The Force is NOT with you."

Except that Mace and Jango BOTH had the opportunity to jump out of the way of the reek. Mace got out with his weapon intact, Jango got trampled.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
I'd say, at that point, he was pretty defenseless.
No, he was shooting at Windu with his personal blaster before Windu chopped his head off; I wouldn't consider that "defenceless".

i would because jango has no hope in hell with one blaster against a jedi master i mean i personlly think jango fully armed could beat mace

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
what might jango have done differently to survive the duel he had with mace windu?

Okay, this post is late as hell, but he might have thrown down his blaster and surrendered. Jedi are not allowed to kill in cold blood

i dont understand why jango didnt run away abit while shooting what i do on swg that tactics lets me kill lvl 90s so jango is dumb

Well if Jango wasn't so cheap and would have had beskar armor and a beskar throat protector, then he COULD have survived.

Jango wasn't the best, but Boba grew up to be threw his hatred of Force-users. Boba wore beskar armor in LOTF: Invincible and he survived a body bisector slice by Jaina Solo during her "Jedi-hunter" training.

lol

Originally posted by Darth Maliko
Well if Jango wasn't so cheap and would have had beskar armor and a beskar throat protector, then he COULD have survived.

Jango wasn't the best, but Boba grew up to be threw his hatred of Force-users. Boba wore beskar armor in LOTF: Invincible and he survived a body bisector slice by Jaina Solo during her "Jedi-hunter" training. EU trash.

Lol just kidding. Christ be with you.

Originally posted by Council#13
Okay, this post is late as hell, but he might have thrown down his blaster and surrendered. Jedi are not allowed to kill in cold blood
yeah but do you wanna test that out in the middle of a war?

Originally posted by Jovan
yeah but do you wanna test that out in the middle of a war? Your post is late as hell.

better late than never

Hmm... this is quite late though.

he should have sniped mace from a distance...or dropped a nuke.

Sweet.

Jango should have just kept flying around blasting at him instead of landing and facing him.

Mace could have jumped up.

Regardless, Jango would have been a moving target.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Regardless, Jango would have been a moving target.

He would be a moving target, but Mace Windu is not going to just stand there and let him attack. He will intervene and do something before Jango can make a move on him. Though Jango is a highly skilled bounty hunter, Mace has this battle.

No doubt there, but Jango would ave lasted longer if he had stayed in the air.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No doubt there, but Jango would ave lasted longer if he had stayed in the air.


Yes, he would have lasted longer if he did stay in the air, unless Mace leaped into the air and tried to strike him down. Besides Windu, one of his most challenging fights with a Jedi or Sith would be with Komari Vosa.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No doubt there, but Jango would ave lasted longer if he had stayed in the air.

Boba didn't.

Originally posted by queeq
Boba didn't.

Well, if you read the comics, Boba Fett survived the Sarlacc Pit.

EU.

yea wtf is up with all the eu?

Originally posted by queeq
Boba didn't. Boba never faced Mace Windu.

in eu he did, but thats another debate.

Queeq, you nutter.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
in eu he did, but thats another debate.

True. For another day I suppose.

Another forum!

Originally posted by queeq
EU.

Is it considered EU when they released a "Sarlacc Escape" figure of Boba Fett for a ROTJ line?

Yup. It's not in the novel, nor in the film. Is it in the radioplay by any chance?

Originally posted by queeq
Yup. It's not in the novel, nor in the film. Is it in the radioplay by any chance?

I know, therefore it isn't canon, I wish GL would tell us, then again I should have asked Jeremy Bulloch when I met him. :-)

I am not sure if it is in the radioplay.

Even Bulloch is no reliable source. Of course he'd want Boba to survive the Sarlacc.

Originally posted by queeq
Even Bulloch is no reliable source. Of course he'd want Boba to survive the Sarlacc.


But who not better to ask than Boba Fett himself?

I always wondered what he thought of Boba after the Sarlacc.

Errrmmm... pssst... Boba is a fictional character. Bulloch is an actor, he PLAYED Boba... as in pretended to be him and dress up like him. Boba doesn't actually exist...

Hope you'll still keep on believing in Santa Clause.

WHAT??? NO WAY!!! Haydn Christensen and Alek Guinnes are really jedis!! WHAT ARE you saying about santa clause?? You should put spoiler tags on this stuff!!!!

THIS POST IS A JOKE

IS it now?

Originally posted by queeq
Errrmmm... pssst... Boba is a fictional character. Bulloch is an actor, he PLAYED Boba... as in pretended to be him and dress up like him. Boba doesn't actually exist...

Hope you'll still keep on believing in Santa Clause.


Lies, Lies! There was a guy wearing Boba's armor there, and a lot of stormtroopers!

And a Han Solo that looked like he came from Sex Offender Hotel....oh wait......



Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I love talking in spoiler tags. All of my posts are going to be in spoilers LOLZ

You'll be so popular.

Hes already popular thumbsup he has my name under his....should I charge for that? sly

is a movie quote lol.
Drag Starboard anchor!
Your daft! You both are!
Aye, Daft like Jack (jack sparrow)

Jack Sparrow sux Jack Daniels rulz... now take this the nana dance...lol

ha! you wanna have a nana dance off??dance

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
Hes already popular thumbsup he has my name under his....should I charge for that? sly

Yes... a lot!

yeah like 2 beers beer for every message posted....lol...