Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

if so why or why not? if he is not Palpatine then who is he. I think he is.

Yeah, Palpatine=Sidious. Some people believe they are two different people but they are one in the same.

I think, based on the casting assignments and the fact that we all know that McDiarmid played Sidious in TPM, I would find it hard to believe that Sidious would then turn out to be a seperate character. I don't buy the clone idea, based on what we know of his future.

well i agree and wheres your proof on they are they are the same? well i know that they are i just want
to see how much proof there is about them beeing the same. I mean at nightly.net they say two differnt people and saying Valorm could be Sidous. well lets here everyones proof.

I have a picture of Sidious that clearly shows Ian McDiarmids full face. It's not from a scene but was shot onset.

Well, their played by the same actor.

Palpatine is in the highest rank of goverment in the Old Republic..and Sidious is in the highest rank in the Empire.

In Qui-Gon's funeral scene the camera focuses on Palpatine right after the discussion confirming that Maul was indeed a Sith...

Those are a few.

Yes, it would not make sense to have Sidious be another character or to re-cast him now.

I think everyone can agree on that.

But the subject is still brought up, hense threads like this.

Not Bad. is that all the proof on Palpatine is Sidous? well anymore thoughts?

I will post that image at some point.

But, here are the clues so far.

Same ActorSidious=Sith Side, Palpatine=Dark SideGeneral mood od Palpatine Scenes.Palpatines actions all fit with previous established PT backstory from LucasThe common sense factor

Also we know that Sidious is on Coruscant...

I don't think this is meant to be a huge secret secret. The enormous hint at the end of TPM of panning over him as they talk of the Sith was a clear indication. I think it is meant to be something that WE know, but the heroes don't, thus increasing the sense of tragedy.

Yeah, that's kinda what I meant by "General mood of Palpatine Scenes."

Brain wasn't fully in gear to explain what I meant at the time.

Ah, I see. Sorry, RC.

Well, I really didn't explain myself too well.

I think that funeral scene was the ultimate in moody givaway when the camera panned over to rest on Palpatine.

Yet I managed to miss that close up twice at the cinema...damn that popcorn.
Also, there was that lost scene where Maul made contact with Sidious after he'd failed to get the queen on Tatooine. Sidious told him not to pursue, because they would come to him. Apparently it was omitted (don't know whether it was filmed) because it was too strong a hint at Sidious' identity.

Good thoerys on that. What happns if Darth Sidious turns out not to be Palpatine after all? well i think he is but tell me what happns?

I have no idea what would happen, but it would screw up the whole saga..whatever it is.

I think it's too "out there" to happen.

well he is Darth Sidious who else would Palpatine be in Star Wars? I mean last night at Nighty.net forum they said they have different Height and they said Darth Sidious is taller then Palpatine. I cxan't belive that i eman tehy have to be the same persoon. I mean it would suck if they were 2 diffent people. I think they are the same.

Who did they say was taller...

check at Starwars.com

heres the proffiel on Darth Sidious
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthsidious/index.html

heres Palpatines profile
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/index.html

they say Darth Sidious well check them out.

I mean its stupid Starwars.com is making them seem like 2 different people and they are the same and will be the same. i say soemone neeed to go t starwars.com cand tell them they got it all wrong and Palpatine is Darth Sidous. well any more comments on this debate?

It's a bit simple minded of SW.com to pretend they're different people. Some kind of forced secrecy.
The actor who plays Palpy is not even listed in the credits as if, ooohoooo, this is THE secret to be resolved. Who will it be? Hoooooohoooooo. A mistake by the Flanelled One.

well Palpatine is Darth Sidious is he or is he not? i mean its what Starwars.com has done to there profile i mean when TPM comes to DVD they need to put that seen in there. the one where Darth Maul contacts Darth Sidious and he says they will come to him. only if thery had it in there then that would prove they are the same person. well any more thoughts?

Nope. Sidious=Palpy. That's it.

wheres your proof?

wheres your proof?

My proof=TPM.

if u check the video box of TPM it says

"..and Palpatine, well known as the evil emperor, is an ambitious senator..."

Sidious MUST be the Emperor well mainly becuase he looks more or less exactly like him and sounds like him blah blah, so..

if Sidious IS the Emperor then Palpatine is Sidious

Kapish?

My last post was addd twice so i have edited this one which you can delete thanks.

I am very Impressed. but can you guys have more proof then that? well I told the guys at Nightly.net and they said LOL they are not the same what jerks well lets her some more proof i will be posting this on my site. i know they are the same but want more proof on it.

This would be Brian right?

I am not Brian my name i keep to my self if you wanna know what it is email me at [email protected]
i will tell you there.

well where more thoreys on this case beening true?

Nooooooooooooooo, I meant Brian over at Nightly.Net boards....

whats his nick name on there? welll I know they are the same.

Doesn't he spell it as "Bryan"? I think he mods over at Ep-X now.

RM said they were the same person in interview shortly before TPMs release... still, what he says abot Christopher Lee NOW is barely credible.

In any case, unless it is a huge (and very unlikely) double-bluff, virtually the whole Universe has correctly assumed that Sidious and Palpatine are the same.

If you believe they are not the same, how do you explain the obvious connection?

Palpatine IS the Emperor in the Classic Triolgy. Not only do canonical sources name him thus, he is played by the same actor and the Supreme Chancellor to Emperor link is amazingly obvious.

Sidious IS the Emperor in the CT. Not only does he dress the same, he is played by the same actor and the Darth Sidious to Master of Darth Vader link os very obvious.

I think you will have to prove that they are NOT the same, not the other way around.

Certainly people that say people that think this are jerks are very odd... see if they can refute that lot.

Well when do you think Darth Sidious will tell who is he i? in epiosde 2 or 3? well I hope soon well tehrs still more thoerys on them beening the same and way more opn saying they are different people.

They ARE the same person, always have been always will be, any fool can see that ..can't they?

I agree with queeq, the proof is in the story telling, the voice and features of Sidious.

yes they are.

Also listen to the background music in TPM when Sidious confronts the Viceroy in the first hologram, it is the same as the theme for the emperor in ROTJ. Palpy =Emperor that is a fact, then add the info of voice clothing and background music for Sidious in TPM. (One can get convicted for less evidence than those )

It was actually amazingly bad detective work by the Jedi if they did not find out Sidious' name and that he is the Master, as the Viceroys both knew this.

Something tells me that Rune Haako would have been mysteriously fried or strangled before anyone could interrogate him. As for Nute Gunreay, rumour has it we will see him in Ep2...

The Emperor is a Sith Lord. Undisputed, right? Whilst he may have taken the quick and easy path, it wouldn't be that quick to get so good. It's entirely probable he was a Sith during TPM,i.e. Sidious.
The most ridiculous story I've heard is that Sidious and Palpatine are both clones, and Yoda mortally wounded Sidious. Before he died, he gave his Force essence to Palpatine and turned him evil.
I think the only reason we've not got proof is that it would have been awkward and perhaps unnecessary to fit the revelation scene into TPM. Besides, hasn't he got statues of Sith Lords in his appartment? What more proof do you need?

How the hell can they be clones? that stupid. I know they are the same and if they turn out to be two differen people then Star Wars ghas lost the SciFi War and it would put Star Trek as number 1 and i know alot of Star Wars fans would agree we can't let taht happen. i mean soem Star Wars fans gave up on Star Wars when they saw Jar Jar Binks and they fliped and turned to the Trek Side. I hope the turn out to be the same. Palpatine beening Darth Sidious that is.

I never heard that music but will watch TPM again and maybe i will hear that and find more proof on they are the same. When will he(Darth Sidious) show that he is Palpatine? I am guessing in episode 3 cause he will make the Jedi think Count Dooku was Darth Mauls master. Darth Sidious can not be ditacted by any jedi cause he can cloak himself and i go this idea cuse opf the Yoda line in TPM. "Hard To See The Darkside" When Episode 3 comes by The Jedi will realize they were tricked and used by Palpatine and they also find out he is Darth Sidious was master to both Darth Maul and Count Dooku/Darth Tryanus and will try escape Coruscant but some end up dead by Darth Sidious's Force Lighting in full blast unlike in The Return of The Jedi where he used his force lighting on Luke and almost killed him. I also love to see Darh Sidious(Palpatine) use a force grip like Darth Vader in ANH, ESB, and ROTJ. that would cool. This willl happen in the middle of episode 3 i know this will have to happen. well I will try and fins more thoreys on how they are the same persoon.
any more thoughts?

ok what about the end of tpm when palpatine pats anakin on the head and says that he will be carefully watching his career
we all know what will happen to anakin and so does palpatine because hes gonna turn him

thats enough proof for me

is that all?

I have to say, that if you take everything that has been offered as clues, the body of evidence does strongly suggest that they are the same person.

Just what do the naysayers have that suggests otherwise, apart from their own feelings on the matter?

What I am saying is that there appears to be a lot that suggests he is Sidious and nothing really to suggest he isn't.

How comes the Jedi cant sense that Senator Palpy is sidious but when maul is about they sense a disturbance .. But we do know palpy is the emperor but why cant the jedi sense this if he is sidious aswell?

My answer to this is threefold.
Palpatine was concealing himself within the force. Something that is well documented in the EU though not in the movies. But, for the purposes of this answer, I ask that people axxept the fact that Force users can close close themselves off like that. The more skillful the Force user, the better job they make of concealment.
We must assume, given that Palpatine was quite happy to walk amongst the Jedi, that he was confident in his ability to conceal himself.
Of course, this could be used as an arguement to say he is not Sidious as well..
The Jedi don't have a clue where to begin looking for the Sith. They would need to be actively searching in order to have any hope of working out that it is Palpatine, given that he would be working to conceal himself.
Maul was actively seeking to engage the Jedi and I would imagine he would be "announcing" himself across the flow of the Force in order to bring the Jedi's attention to him.

I dont my guess would be he is so powerfull in the force he can also cloak himself with The Dark Side. I bleive they are the same.

It isn't a totally inconceivable skill for a master, and Palpatine is certainly a dark side master.

AND....... he is Sidious.

Are we certain that they sense Maul directly as a disturbance? They sense a disturbance, to be sure, and they see Maul as a bad guy... I understood the disturbance as just the general badness happening- the rise of the Sith- but not anything specific about Maul, who they just spotted as a bad guy in an obvious way.

Has anyonew seen the pictures of Palpatine in Ep2? He's looking seriously ill. Not just like the ravages of age, he really is starting to bear a resemblence to the Emperor:
http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow/E2_0061_2.jpg

That suggests to me that he is dabbling in the Dark Side at that time, and hence is Sidious.

Yeah, he's looking pretty much like death warmed over.

Well, he must have been "dabbling" long before that if he trained Darth Maul...

Good point about the sensing, Ush. All we know is that OB1 senses "something, elsewhere, elusive." Not directed at a specific presence indeed.

I think this goes back to the actively searching bit.

A ripple on a pond is visible, but if you catch the ripple, you'd have to search long and hard to find the pebble that was thrown into the pond to make it.

What a poetic comparison.

I rthink that Anakin finds out about Darth Sidious and how he is Palpatine and he then embraces the darkside and Palpatine orders him to hunt dpwn tThe Jedi one by one. I hbet Palpatine will rervil he is Darth Sidious in Episode 3. I hope they turn out to be the same i mean i heard a stupid rumor that Darth Sidious is Valorme. well think he is Palpatine cause of this one line in TPM Nute Gunnray: is that legel my lord? Darth Sidious: I will make it Legel. only sentors can do that and so Palpatine has to be Darth Sidious. any more thoughts?

but hasn't rick macullum stated that sidious is plapatine so if that isthe case then there is littlep oint in this discussion. there is no way they aren't the same person. As for hiding himself. Well obi wan dfoesn't do a good job from hiding himself from vader and vader doesn't do a good job from stopping luke from sensing his prescence in ROTJ. I think it's more to do with the fact that good can't sense tru evil and vice versa , which would be an interesting twist on how luke could sense vader ,i.e he wasn't truely evil

Do you really think Obi Wan was trying to hide from Vader in a ANH? I don't, "This is something I must do alone." he tells Luke.

He knew that he would face Vader and he knew that he would die. By ensuring the Luke saw this, he hoped to further commit Luke to his path, interestingly enough my trying to make Luke hate Vader???

In ROTJ, Vader was hunting Luke. Why would Vader want to conceal himself from Luke? He would not have known that Luke was there until his in turn sensed him.

well Palpatine aka Darth Sidious is so powerful in the force he is the essence of evil in Star Wars byut no one could defeat him but the chosen one Anakin Skywalker and his son Luke Skywalker. I think Luke did a jedi mind trick on Vader to make Vader kill Sidious and so that brought balance to the force and Darth Vader turned away from the darkside and became onec again Anakin Skywalker and it was all thinks to his son Luke. I know they are the same. But alot of people seem to disagree with me on this alot only you guys seem to agree with me on this topic of them beening the same. its just stupid people thinking the are clones or brothers or anything like saying Sidious was Valorome he is not he is Palpatine plan and simple Palpatine is Darth Sidious.

Jedi Mind Trick. Oh my......

well it looks like Luke did give Vader a Jedi Mind Trick. well Palpatine is Darth Sidious.

Nah, where did that come from.

It would totally cheapen the redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

I ndo hope you are having a joke...

Yeah same ere, I dont think luke could do a jedi mind trick on big bad darth, i mean come on it only has a influence on the weak minded, i dont think the chosen one has a weak mind, do u?

i guess i was just guessing and its good have some people that agree with meon this topic.

Phew, speculation I can handle....

I think Vader's sensing of Obi-Wan was based on the person, not his powers. Jedi can feel minds; Vader remembers the mind of his former Master.

(BTW, strange bit of reasoning over Sidious there; it strikes me that Valorum is far more likely to be able to 'make things legal' than Palpy, being the Chancellor rather than just a Senator, if it wasn't for the fact that Valorum is clearly useless. Still, ALL indications right now is that Palpy IS Sidious. Still, we'll keep an open mind...)

Not really that strange. Palpatine was engineering his rise to the position of Chancellor all along. This would then put him in the position of being able to make it legal.

good i mean i wonder if Palpatine will clam he is Darh Sidious to The Jedi or they will find out by there selfs.

Hmmm, toughie. Ya know, I think the Sidious persona may even have been dropped by the end of the trilogy. Afte all, he is known as Emperor Palpatine, not Emperor Sidious.

well this shall be operfect for Episode 3. wel,ll any more toughts?

They don't pay me enough to think.

Maybe there's not point of using the name after the jedi discover that he's Sidious..but by that logic there's no real reason for Anakin to become Vader.

Yes.... hmmmm. Interesting, unless Palpy is considered to BE the evil dude. Anakin adopting the name Vader is also symbolic for the death of Anakin. But Maul did that bit in of course. Hmmmm, GL is having continuity problems...

It seems so. I can't think of an explanation for it.

this is a silly discussion p[alpatine is sidious. He has to be. Not only do palpatine and sidious look identical , in the rare shots where you can see a little of sidious face (say his chin which has the same dimple etc as palpatine) but the scene in TPM where palpatine becomes flusterd when the queen decides to go back to naboo , something he wasn't expecting. Palpatine ooozes evil and snake like personality in TPM and looks like sidious , we know he has the same goals in the end as sidious , talks like sidious and at the end of TPM says to anakin 'we will watch your carear with great interest'. If this isn't enough at in the funeral scene when it talks about the sith master it focuses on him!!! What we have to remember is while these are obvious indications to us the older audience of who he really is , the kids the 6 year olds probab;ly wont get it' It is very very obvious that sidious is palpatine.

i know but Read the new Star Wars book. Cloak of Despection and it will blow your mind away. i know they are the same.

But that's EU, not much of a reliable source.

Yeah

for anyone who doubts that sidious is palpatine go to starwars.com databank under sidious look at his EU section and you can clearly see his face. One interesting note however is that himself and palpatine are given different heights.

i know they need to correct that real fast.

If you look at the Palpatine one, they are clearly referring to gim as seen in ROTK because they mention his Force Lightening and his affiliation is listed as Empire, Sith.

I would therefore suggest the height measurements are correct as the ROTJ era Palpatine walked with a visible stoop of the spine, thus making him shorter.

Yup, in essence SW is a very simple story. Don't expect too complicated things from GL.

After all, ANH hit the big time on virtually the simplest possible story. And the ESB twist was pretty simple as well. All part of its greatness.

Amen

im having second thoughts, I think GL wants us to think that Sidious is Palpy even though we dont know for sure we are so certain, there could be a possibility that he is somone else to fool us..

Yeah, I went through the stage of thinking it was a big trick as well, and while I won't absolutely rule anything out, the more time goes by the more this looks like a very simple thing.

Anyway, it's hardly as if a sudden twist here will actually improve the story. We know the score, we know the good guys will lose, so let's just roll with it.

And so say all of us...

Anyone read the Ian McDiarmid interview in the Star Wars magazine?
He described some of Palpatine's character in Episode 2. He's convinced that he's supposed to be evil, he talked about his ability to "turn it on", referring to a scene in Ep2 where he's close to tears. Interesting stuff, which backs up the whole Sidious = Palpy idea.

Yeah, I read that.

So we need more back-up, do we?

I am impressed yof you guys. you guys are true to the core Star Wars Fans and i may say that for all those who think Papatine is not Sidious they must be Trekie or somthing. well lets get more and more and more proof on how they are the same.

well i know theres got to be more proof.

you REALLY want this thread to go on forever dont you?

The thing is we cant get proof unless any is leaked from Ep2 people or untill we see EP2 and 3.

Amazing. Still on topic.

*takes the 100th *

OK, a quick recap of pointers that I know of.

The OT Emporer is EMPORER PALPATINE

- so Palpatine becomes the emporer.

Now, this could still leave Sidious to be a different character, but he's not.

You want proof, - ask George

(seriously, he'll laugh and tell ya)

Damnit, lost his number!

But of course. We're professionals here.

Any more to add anyone?

well i think the thorey of them beening clones or brothers is stupid.

or any otehr stuff stuff. its plan and simple they are the same i hope episode 2 clears this up.

there is no reason to think they are diff. It's been said they are the same by rick mcallum or however youi spell it and they look so similar anyway.

Which is basically where we came in.

I dont understand the offical site makes them look like 2 different people they need to clear that up.

They (SW.C) are messing with our minds. Thats the reason for the diferance in how tall it says they are.

They are the same person. One line clears it up.

"I will make it legal."

Sidious is talking about his alter ego Palpy and how he will manipulate the senate.

Well, that's an obvious link, and along with most other people I think they are the same person, but that line is not conclusive proof as it is clear that Sidious has political influence, whether he is Palpatine or not. He has the Trade Federation vote sewn up for a start.

Then if he is is not Paplatine then who is he?

*starts shouting in frustration*

SIDIOUS......IS......PALPATINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, on a serious note, if there's no new angle on this, I will close this thread down.

I mean who would Darth Sidious infact be if hes not Palpatine. we got Valorme, Jedi Master Sidoyas or even a clone of Palpatine i know by fact he palpatine for many reasons for the 1st one when look in in hand coffs and Plaptine uses the force and it removes the hand coffs off Lukes hands and one line from TPM helps prove they are same and one is which one destoryed the master or the aprentice. i mean the Jedi can't sensse Palpltine since he can cloak his dark side powers and my guess is the jedi shall assume that Darth Tryanus aka Count Doku will be the master of Darth Maul and when they kill him and its at the beggging of episode 3 they realize they been used by a Sith lord named Darth Sidious who in fact was Palpatine using them for his rise to power and helping him create The Empire and also who was both master to both Darth Maul and Darth Tryanuse and in the middle of the flim they learn there chosen one has betrayed them as well and became Darth Vader the 3rd aprentice of Darth Sidous who droop his sith title and keeps it just Palpatine make that Emperor Palpatine has them hunted down one by one and killed at the hands of Darth Vader. its goonna be a sureprize for The Jedi in episode 3 when The Jedi Purge begins and also The Clone Wars as well. its gonna be the end for The Jedi Knights and its Order.

So where's the confusion about the identity of Sidious then? Sidious is still one and the same as Palpy, and Tyrannus will not be confused with Sidious, only perhaps as Maul's Master.

And that should only be thought by someone who hasn't seen the movies.

I hope they dont scerw up Episode 2 like they did TPM and that movie by forth the worsr Star Wars movie ever mede and if they never made Jar Jar they would have changed the title to a cooler title like The Chosen One and dont ahvce Jake Lyod as young Anakin they needed the kid from the sixth sense to do that part. i mean Jake Lyood or how ever u spell it is a poor actor he made Star Wars look like a rerun ofMicky mouse or somthing. well i hope they made Sidious turn out to be
Palpatine and no one else.

http://www.btinternet.com/~bragg/selects/sidpalp.jpg

BL P BL P

EXCELLENT!

Good detective work! People are reading so much into the fact that it is not 100% confirmed on screen that Palpy = Sidious. Would it have improved the plot if GL included a scene of him getting undressed and clambering into his Sith robes? Besides, don't they both wear the same buckle thing keeping their robes on their shoulders?

Yeah, most non fans I know won't believe that senator Palpatine becomes the emperor. I get the feeling he still won't make it clear in Episode 2, his revelation being officially made to the audience as the Jedi realise in Ep3. Shame if that's the case,with more people despising Ep2 as they did Ep1, simply because they don't understand the underlying motives.

I still think GL made a mistake not making the connection clear to the audience. Non-SW fans will NEVER EVER make that connection by watching TPM alone. And they won't remember TPM that well after three years either.

i also heard Palpatine takes a 3RD name along with his Sith LLord name and his human and in this flijm he is said to be a fake Jedi Master who is named Jedi Master Sydoas and he orderd a clone army for The Jedi 10 years ago while the events of TPM took place. well i hope he turns out to to be all 3 people whom he clams to be like Darth Sidious + Jedi Master Sydoas = Palpatine. well any more toughts?

Nope, im spent

Y'know, I don't think Sidious is Palpatine after all, I mean lets throw away all 5 pages of evidence and just be so sceptical that we annoy everyone on this board to the point of putting a chair through your monitor!!!
any more thoughts?????????????????

ok heres something ive been thinking
how are we certain that sidious is the master and not darth maul

remember at the end of tpm when mace windu asks the question

it may be possible that palpatine was the apprentice

any ideas

erm because sidious states in the film to the nemodians 'i am sending my apprentice Darth maul' that pretty much seals it for me.

i wasnt sure if he said that

thanks

Frankly dudes, this thread isn't going anywhere anymore. If you have some really new clues, start another one.