Hey guys. I've gotta make this quick, he's already on to me. Tetsuo Shima's ended up on an unknown plane of existence, and he senses he's been put there by someone else. At the same time, Alucard appears. Who would win in this fight? I thi...Oh...h-hey Tetsuo, how's it goi...N-n-n-no, what're you talkin' about? I didn't...No. No, wait a minute! HOLD ON MAN! I WAS ONLY KIDDING! I'M SORRY! NO! NO! N-hgrk.....
...Bitchin'...
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- Alucard himself could turn Tetsuo into his minion. (Dandy man and Rip van Winkle were turned into his minions when he sucked them dry while they were still alive and kicking as well as the other millions)
- Tetsuo may have supreme telekinesis to keep Alucard away, but Alucard has an unmatched form of dark powers and black magic to counter that. Alucard also has telekinesis as we saw him send SWAT members in the air to fall straight down to the flag poles outside a hotel. (The usage of the third eye, examples similar to when Alucard made humans bound to his will with a simple glare and command and when Seras saw past Lt. Zorin's illusion induced to the Wild Geese Mercenaries)
- Tetsuo can blow things up with his mind and move objects without having to lift a finger. But Alucard has the power to entrap opponents that strikes the ultimate fear of becoming engulfed by a monster/death and mentally renders their abilities to become useless. (Luke Valentine was mentally torn when he was surrounded by Alucard's vampiric powers and failed to escape due to forgetting the vampiric abilities he's achieved through Millennium)
- The usage of expendable entities and regenerative powers. Tetsuo could not regenerate his arm after being shot by the laser gun. Alucard however was... sent to hell and came back in the form of a monster, sliced into pieces by Anderson and Walter, shot/blown into bits through squads and armies, burned into a crisp by using a kamikaze technique with the Black Bird moving at Mach 5 speed and sent into a dimension through the Schrodinger's 'Quantum paradox' and still came back? Did I mention that he could summon a legion of undead in almost limitless quantities as long as there are corpses or blood?
Even Kira can't kill Alucard! Cause he's already dead XD!!!
Nope, he still had both his legs fully attached when Alucard released his restrictions. To clarify what I've said before regarding Luke, Alucard's vampiric powers mentally rendered Luke absolutely incapable to use his speedy reflexes provided by Millennium to escape because of fear.
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I'd like to see a canon quote or proof that Alucard is capable of this. Not that it would do you much good because
Counter 1: Tetsuo can Teleport; @ Speed of Light is 299,792,458 metres per second. Teleportation in Quantum Physics has been proven to travel roughly 100,000 times faster then the Speed of Light. (I'll provide more in side notes)
Counter 2: Tetsuo does not have a human mind. It's an overly developed brain that has gone over severe evolution, along with 2 cosmic rebirths. Tetsuo's body also went under an intense biochemical attack that had inverse effects later, and Tetsuo used that to siphon and repair his body. (please log in to view the image)
He's a bio-mechanical organic life form. No organs, etc.
Counter 3: Tetsuo has no blood to speak of in that picture. It is assumed that after a cosmic rebirth, it is not necessary for him because he doesn't eat, drink either. A black or clear liquid substance does drip from him in the manga after such an invent, but it is most likely the unknown liquid substance that you see dripping from him while in "monster" form like in the end of the movie. Siphoning blood and trying to control a mind like Tetsuo would be completely void, because he himself is capable of mind control. His brain is above and beyond what we can even fathom. I don't see him becoming a victim to simple vampiric minion control, sorry. Let alone the fact Alucard wouldn't even be able to lay a hand on him or have enough time to initiate a bite, or even enough to control Tetsuo IF he could.
Everything you said after "black magic" relates to it. It is not a case of telekinesis or telepathy for mind control. He is using third party abilities via a transition of magic. Magic and spells with out incantations can be quick cast. Like pure blood mages. They can have spells to levitate, teleport and so on, but it is still through magic and not the mental process, like psychokinesis.
You said it yourself and it's an understatement, "supreme telekinesis." Dark powers and black magic? what can those do in sets of feats. Tetsuo has been able to crush people's skulls in an instant, implode brains, rip apart entire bodies. He can deflect and rip apart particles of pure energy and siphon the atoms to nullify them (people mistake that as a forcefield. It is literally Tetsuo rearranging Molecules on a sub-atomic level) I'm 100% positive he could do that to these magical attacks if they must form to a level of energy, to exist on the physical plane.
He's even gone up against Kiyoko, Takashi, Masaru, Lady Miyako, who are all high leveled telekinetics capable of Teleporation, Dimension bending, Pre-cognition/predicting the future, and Mind Control/Mind Warping. All of them used Kei as a vessel so channel their powers through her to become one. And she didn't even make a scratch on Tetsuo. She also wasn't capable of crushing his own mind or canceling his powers, because he can easily counter that via his own, and superior abilities. He in an instant overwhelmed her and they had to retreat. He also has all their abilities and advances them far beyond their original owners capabilities. If he sees it, he wants it, he can have it.
Akira: Volume 2 Tetsuo: "She Teleported! I saw it!! Could I learn to do that?" Doctor: "We-e-ell... Tetsuo: "That means no, doesn't it?!" Doctor: "There are all kinds of people in the world, with all kinds of different talents. Some ar athletes and some are artists, for example... But very few. Talent is rare... combinations of talents are even more rare..." Tetsuo: "But some jocks are artists, too!"
Akira: Volume 4 Lady Miyako:"Following many experiments, my growth was stunted and my vision dimmed. But I survived...And today I see the world with a clarity infinitely greater than before. I acquired a form of clairvoyance--A Second Sight."
Tetsuo:"I want that power. That's why I'm here."
He even could become more powerful then Akira and harness his power. Akira's power and I quote, "this is the birth of the universe." He can bring all existence as we know it, to an end. Let alone to bring Alucard's un-dead life to cease to be.
That's actually a great ability, because I have the perfect counter example for that. In Akira: Volume 4; Pages 118 to 121.
Tetsuo goes through his a pseudo-cosmic rebirth (his 1st) and upon that happening steps outside his quarters to confront Akira. He and Akira are synchronized to each other, and he tries to read Akira's mind and the child only returns with his own mind read/rape. Tetsuo, with in an instant by the frames, is paralyzed in fear by what he sees. He teleports back to his room, shivering, in the corner. Saying "what... what was that?!" Tetsuo was shown Truth. He was shown Life & death, all the secrets of the universe. Tetsuo saw the stream, the truth. He confronted all of the horrors of the entire universe, not just the world, in one instant. His mind was raped, he was scarred. And after that? After his full cosmic rebirth, Tetsuo can see now beyond such illusions of fear. Petty emotions that affect only humans. With Lady Miyako's power, and Akira showing him all there is to ever fear, Tetsuo can walk freely beyond such childish attempts to show him fear, when he has none. He's above human emotion. Let alone it seems he'd be able to block being engulfed or teleport out of it very simply.
Tetsuo's arm did not regenerate. He had to use his mental prowess and knowledge of human anatomy to physically construct one. But in the picture I showed above, Tetsuo's chemical body is being torn apart from his own energy. It's to much for him. He eventually is able to put himself back together whole. Tetsuo learns from his mistakes, he is able to regenerate just like Alucard.
And that isn't worth mentioning. There are no humans around for corpses or blood for that matter in the original post by Xanatos. Besides, wtf could they do to Tetsuo, lol. He takes down the entire U.S. Airforce and navy in a mater of seconds in Akira: Volume 5. He even takes on the full blast of a nuclear war head to prove to himself that even though he can feel pain, he can survive such things and put himself back together.
Tetsuo would crush Alucard's mind the moment they met. He wouldn't hesitate, he thinks above beyond the normal thinking speed of humans; which is on average 100 billion neurons X 200 firings per second X 1000 connections per firing = 20 million billion calculations per second. Even above that of Alucard's mind, which is a vampire. Which is only a symbiote humanoid being practically. Not a highly develop mental evolution physical entity like Tetsuo Shima. Who has tanks bullets, missles, nuclear war heads, other psychics, Akira's universal reverse which rips the very fabrics of life at the seams. Molecules, atoms, sub-atomic particles, everything. And Tetsuo just ends up in the other stream. To under go and develop. Even the end of the move that "I Am Tetsuo." you hear, along with the clip, is him going through his cosmic rebirth in the stream.
He's gone beyond other dimensions and pocket universes, let alone a fathomed fairy tail like "Hell".
I'd like to see a clip or screen shot of Alucard regenerating from "nothing" if there are still pieces of him or even a hint of residue, then it isn't from nothing. Has Alucard shown feats of being able to live with out oxygen and in space? Because Tetsuo could simply teleport him to space. Or it is a matter of crushing his entire body over and over again until Alucard gets tired of regenerating.
There are multiple ways for a person with a level of psychokinesis and molecularkinesis can kill and defeat Alucard. It's a matter of even if Alucard could regenerate, he is still defeated. He has nothing over Tetsuo to win.
Last edited by Voyeur on Mar 20th, 2009 at 06:53 AM
I don't want to go over board like you did, but Alucard is already dead and vampires don't need anything but blood so that excludes the need for air and other required necessities for living creatures.
Alucard was also able to return from Schrodinger's Quantum Paradox after thirty years; reasons due to how he had to single handedly killed the millions of souls retained within his own power. To clarify a little more, Alucard was sent to the dimension of infinite imaginary numbers similar to how Tetsuo disappeared into the cosmic. Alucard came back from the non-existent/yet existent dimension.
Alucard has ripped men to shreds, used his familiars to take out Millennium, the Vatican, Anderson "who became a monster of God" and Walter "The Shinigami" all in one night. It does not matter if Alucard's head is blown into pieces or his body has been completely destroyed. It's not necessary due to the fact that it is his power and character that makes him into an omnipotent being. Alucard does not feel any pain when his physical body is destroyed. This creature has also been perfected by experimentation with the genius of the Hellsing bloodline. A vampire that goes beyond imaginable possibilities.
Now I may not have read the manga: Akira like you have, I have only seen the animated movie and was it is a masterpiece of a movie. Our discussion would be exponentially more impressive if we both knew about each others subjects had we both read and learned about these two series to the maximum. Now I'm not exactly an expert on the Hellsing topic, but I know that 'Thess' - an active debater on the Hellsing series could give a better presentation of Alucard than I could ever think of. But this could suffice.
Anyway, I would love to recommend that reading the manga or at least watching the Hellsing OVA could specifically give you the idea and understanding of where I'm coming from exactly as well as enjoying the series at the same time. If you take my advice and do get into Hellsing, I'll read the manga: Akira. That's the one major factor that disrupts the argument over who could defeat who.
Just so everyone else who is reading this topic understands, I must say that I feel like we are comparing Science vs. Magic/Religion...
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It is hard to believe that vampires do not need oxygen at all, since oxygen is required for the process of respiration which is the only means humanoids have of creating the energy to move muscles. Perhaps they don't need the oxygen from the air (just as fish can't breathe the oxygen out of the air), perhaps as one can suggest they get from the oxygenated blood they drink (a very good reason to drink from the carotid artery rather than the jugular vein) You clearly see vampires breath and their chest where their lungs are at inhale and exhale. That could be due to being past homo sapiens, and it's simply a reaction now. Or they can do both.
Either way you look at it.
Blood is a specialized bodily fluid that delivers necessary substances to the body's cells — such as nutrients and oxygen — and transports waste products away from those same cells.
Vampires DO need blood to live, because blood only exists to carry oxygen and so forth with in a body. Blood isn't just blood and a magical red substance that keeps things alive, it's what lies with in it.
So by that statement, Alucard needs blood, e.g. needs oxygen, and if Tetsuo was to take him to Outer Space, beyond the Thermosphere, to the Exosphere, he will be unable to continue to perform actions.
I watched the video you posted and I actually know a person I hang out with who is an advent Hellsing fan. I'll ask him if he has but from what I seen, this is the magical powers of Vampires and 3rd party things that can manifest into energy to exist on a physical plane, that Tetsuo can deflect and not even get touched by.
He deflects smoke canisters, bullets, a tank shell, Jet missiles, nuclear war-head and many more physical things but the most important (it's even in the movie) Tetsuo has the ability to thwart off and block other psychokinetic attacks. I just don't see where you think that if people on the same level of Tetsuo's abilities can not defeat him, that magic and vampiric abilities can?
(He's tanked a nuclear explosion, bullet to the 'heart', and things that should kill humans. Proving Tetsuo is not human any more, but highly evolved. His abilities would even be above a Vampire, which vampires are homo sapiens with more developed strength and speed, only.
Science-Fiction backed up and looked into with our real world sciences, math and physics. Magic and Religion can be explained by science as well.
Do you know who Dr. Manhattan is from Watchmen? Tetsuo is the Dr. Manhattan of the Manga/Anime world. He's nothing short of being God. He's only restricted by PIS.
I've read over some Alucard stuff, and he's a very strong vampire but he does not have anything that would put him even at Tetsuo's level, or be able to go above it. The only thing he's been show to do is that regeneration to the physical plane of existence. After being sent to an existing dimension. Tetsuo went through a cosmic rebirth. He literally died, and then was reborn back onto the world. That's why his hair becomes pure white later on in the manga, because he aged at highly unimaginable speeds, and then died, then was reborn under cosmic levels. He witnessed a rebirth of the universe, via himself.
So Alucard needs souls to fuel him being able to regenerate like that? And I read that he as turned into a pool of blood, it could be that strands of him still existed in that blood and he was able to regenerate from that because something of him still was in existence. You said he controls power to manifest things with in blood, perhaps he simply applied that to himself. If Tetsuo was to obliterate Alucard into nothing, and then evaporate the blood, would he be able to regenerate? or even then does he need souls to do this.
And in Akira: Volume 6, which my friend is borrowing at the moment but iirc (and I do) Kaori is shot dead. And there is a scene where Tetsuo is able to communicate and talk to her 'spirit' after she's been killed to ask her what happened and basically in his way, tell her he loves her. Then he carries her body over to his Olympic throne and lays her down upon it. It could be drawn from that, Tetsuo has the ability to see souls and spirits of People, so he could per say, even go as far as to put a block on Alucard being able to use other souls or Alucard's own soul from coming to a point and resurfacing back to being a physical being.
You've seen the movie, and that is nice. But I am a very advent Akira fan since I was in the 3rd-4th grade when my aunt first gave me the 2nd Volume for a gift. I of course watched the movie back then. Both in original audio and now with the digitally remastered. The movie, is a piece of shit. It doesn't even scratch or is worthy of being able to touch the literature marvel that is the Graphic Novel. The movie was good on its own. But when you compare the two, it's no contest. Film wise, there is no in depth, no character development, nothing.
Tetsuo wins via oxygen siphoning.
Or simply defeats Alucard, because as hard as he wants to try, he has nothing over what Tetsuo Shima is capable of. Tetsuo has amazing feats and is nothing short of the Dr. Manhattan of the Manga/Anime world. He's over powered, and really should be banned or not brought up in any more discussions.
Last edited by Voyeur on Mar 20th, 2009 at 05:51 PM
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I do. Because simply, Tetsuo Shima is win. How am I suppose to debate and discuss if I don't rape you with logic and facts?
I'm not going to post fan boy fallacies. That's retarded. Most of the threads and people just post "(X) character stomps (Y) character IMO" with out proof or facts and it's asinine.
I'm an intelligent person naturally, so I'm not going up and beyond for anything. This is actually really natural for me. I apologize to you if you think that me being intelligent and having an advanced vocabulary is "taking things to serious". I guess knowledge of common sense and academics and being able to decipher between fact and fan boy bull shit is what makes a debator better then the other.
Wow, way to go completely off the deep end buddy. If your a rational intellectual person you'd realize that you essentially invented all of those things I supposedly said about you. Actually even if you were a blithering idiot you'd realize I didn't say any of those things about you (but don't get me wrong, I am calling you a blithering idiot now that you've gone out of your way to act like on).
I have one world that tears your use of logic to pieces: "Magic"
Also: "Do you know who Dr. Manhattan is from Watchmen? Tetsuo is the Dr. Manhattan of the Manga/Anime world. He's nothing short of being God. He's only restricted by PIS."
Terrible terrible analogy that again makes you seem like much less of the "intellectual" you claim to be. There's also the lines "He's only restricted by PIS" and "Tetsuo Shima is win" which are classic fanboyism markers.
Personally I have no opinion on this (as I've never seen Akira), my criticism was only that the depth of analysis used is relatively pointless because most stories are written with the story (rather than physics) in mind. Alucard might be killed by hypoxia but then again he's a vampire and could very well be powered by magic. Also, I recall reading that even after Schrodinger deleted him from reality Alucard managed to come back for a while.
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Let me explain a little bit about myself, and it may take some time.
I am a troll. Except when I am trolling.
Oh, didn't take that long as I thought.
:]
oh but yes, Tetsuo doesn't kill Kaneda or other characters because those characters are important to the movement and development of the plot. Other then that, Tetsuo just blows peoples heads up. From soldiers, the clowns, the entire other bike gangs that team up to kill him, other lower leveled psychics, and Like I said literally all other characters besides important ones. That's why he is restricted by PIS. I'm not even using a hyperbole when I say he is the Manga/Anime Dr. Manhattan equivalent.
(i.e. I hate it but from what I've heard the same goes for Sephiroth. Who could rape everyone if it wasn't for PIS)
Vampires are just advanced and evolved humans. And even magic has a definition and has restrictions. There is logic with in the science fiction world via through science fiction. Magic has its limits. So, no, sadly it does not destroy any of my logic. Play some D&D and you'd know that.
Saying that he's powered by some unknown magical core is as retarded as saying I would just need Tetsuo to run a wooden stake into his heart or amplify intense Sun light to turn Alucard into dust. you gotta go beyond the restrictions. If you just think that everything in a story is laid out for you in black and white, and what is said is just truth, then .......You have to look at the obvious.
We're taking characters out of their stories and into other situations. By your thought, Alucard shouldn't even be fighting Tetsuo because vampires don't exist in the "written story" and visa versa. But that isn't the point here. So there is nothing wrong with using physics and common sense and academics, minimal math and so forth to show how this would carry out in a fight. You have to go beyond the story. Would you agree?
Any way. Alucard seems very strong as far as vampires usually go but he doesn't have anything over Tetsuo. Canon facts show that.
I'm sorry I don't dumb myself down to talk like the majority of people on here, and that you some how feel threatened. Peace out
Back to smash training now :3
Last edited by Voyeur on Mar 20th, 2009 at 09:15 PM
I'm sorry Voyuer, but I hope you realize that I am only am going as far as I need to. It was just fun to state what Alucard could do with the valid proof that I have from my own knowledge and experience from debating in the Hellsing forums that I've participated in a long time ago.
But seriously; as Symmetric Chaos have said, you are taking this discussion a bit too far that even your extensive information about Tetsuo are just starting to sound as annoying as a persistent little house fly or like a little boy that could not stop talking about his 'amazing' imaginary friend. I was hoping that this forum was going to be fun, observing how participants would react after reading about these characters and share their own opinions. This topic was fun at the beginning. I like Hellsing a whole lot and I have a collection that I'm proud of, but you are taking fandom into a whole new and disturbing level.
After you had told us of about your history with Akira, I am happy to say that "I'm so glad that I'm a lot younger than you." D&D? Smash bros? Sorry, but you couldn't get more nerdy than that. I obviously don't have to state anything else there because that should be enough to make you aware of how you are representing yourself.
I'm an advocate of civil debating. It's one thing to get in a debate for the sake of representing your preferred character, but personal insults to your opponent shows a lack of common courtesy. Consider yourself reported for bashing, and next time think before you put something down for the whole world to see.
Voyeur, the same goes for you.
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kek, it's okay Peach and Xanatos. It's only a personal attack if I take personal offense to it. I am who I am and what I am.
'a Jack of all trades and master of none'
If others see at as nerdy, that's cool. The only opinion that matters is my own, of me. :]
I'm only 19 mate, so I'm not that old. And I'm just applying intelligence to a debate, what else would I be putting into my discussion to back up Tetsuo =P
But yes, this game's winner is Tetsuo Shima. /curtsy
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At this point, I honestly cannot think of anything that can permanently put down a non-jobbing Alucard. If Schrodinger's imaginary number dissolution didn't kill him, what can Tetsuo do?
The other problem, is stamina. Tetsuo has human limits (mostly, at the very least he can be mentally fatigued). Alucard.......when's the last time anyone saw him tired period? Save for twice in the manga. 1st time was when he let himself be sealed by Sir Richard Hellsing. It's (heavily) implied he could have busted out any time he wanted. The other time is the epilogue. He had to drastically weaken himself by killing off 3 million+ of his souls. And since he has Schrodinger's powers now..........he's even more unkillable than before.
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Lol that's all cool man. I like that. Just say that I'll give ya respect points for that Voyeur.
Anyway....
Yes, Schrodinger has the 'I am everywhere and I am nowhere' factor and the only way for that to be defeated is that the wielder of that power claims their own life. That power is in Alucard too.
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Proof and word for word quote of this "power" Schrodinger, which isn't really helpful to do so, but nice to see so I can debunk it for you.
and it stands. Alucard isn't immune to the attacks Tetsuo can unleash, but Tetsuo is in every way able to deflect and nullify Alucard's. Winning this match doesn't mean one has to die per say. It just means that the other has an unyielding power over the other, and that one is Tetsuo. Literally if you can prove Alucard is able to regenerate over and over after being destroyed again and again, then okay. But even so, it will just be a case of Tetsuo sitting all day bored as he continuously crushes Alucard into nothing, again and again.
And Trickster, I know they're big but it's obvious you did not read my first posts. Tetsuo doesn't have human limits. He as much evolved and past a human being (homo sapien) as Alucard is, and that is being generous.
Alucard survived being blast apart by that one weapon. Tetsuo survived being ripped apart at the seams of the same power that it took to birth the universe. The Crunch Theory.
The Big Crunch Theory is made possible by Big Bang cosmology, which states that all matter in the universe is now racing away from all other matter. If there is enough matter in the universe to create a gravitational force sufficient to bring this movement to a halt and to reverse its direction, then at some point in the remote future all matter in the universe will converge into an infinitely dense point in space, resembling a massive black hole. The end of the universe would then resemble its beginning—a singularity at which the laws of physics as we know them no longer apply. Such a universe is called a closed universe.
Akira's attack is that singularity black hole. Which after seeing it, Tetsuo is now able to do. So.....?
Besides. Tetsuo and Alucard go up to space where Alucard will suffocate. And it's pretty obvious Alucard needs blood in many cases, like all Vampires. He had a pool of blood + souls to help regenerate himself the first time. And I showed how Tetsuo can just cut off those two sources.
Alucard is cool I'm sure but he has nothing over on Tetsuo who I have pointed out has actual amazing feats of durability, speed, endurance, and abilities.
Well, it's not like he constantly needs blood, as powerful as he is he can go without Plasma for a long time. And all of Alucard's powers at level 0 are scary. Plus he has his sex beam power.
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Mar 18th, 2009 03:35 AM
If Schrodinger's imaginary number dissolution didn't kill him, what can Tetsuo do? 
