Before anyone calls mismatch, Guy messed him up pretty bad in Eight Gate mode, and I can't see Luffy being much slower then anything in the Naruto-verse (If at all), and certainly has better striking and durability feats...
Who wins?
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Luffy has feats ranging from one shot KOing a skyscraper sized Kraken, to pushing aside two largish multi story buildings casually, to defeating an attack that could sink an island
Narutos best feats involve chakra attacks, but I'm unaware of physical combatants having many comparable feats, if any.
So it's a DBZ situation where Madara is a lot less durable to h2h, then to energy attacks.
I think Luffy could do at least as well as Guy, given his laundry list of better feats.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
I just want to make clear, that I think Madara could squash him like a bug using chakra attacks.
But it was established self handicapping himself for sport is CIS, when he fought the five Kages.
And he wasn't going all out vs Guy either. A jubeidama is all it would take.
So given CIS, which defaults at on, he'll fight Luffy on his level, physically.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
O...K? How, in your book, does pushing two skyscrapers apart, put Luffy on the level of someone who casually stomped nine tailed beasts that could all mountain range bust? Not to mention that Madara, you know, in his regular form, CUT TWO MOUNTAINS IN HALF BY UNSHEATHING HIS SWORD.
Even the highest One Piece tier, large town busting(face it, those Islands were tiny), would be stalemated by a current fodder in Naruto, like Pain. Jyuubidara was conjuring country level meteor showers with a gesture, and fighting off two people that dealt with a planet buster.
Yeah, Squall's right here. Regular Madara cut two mountains in half by unsheathing his sword. Luffy pushed some buildings apart...? Pain destroyed a village with a gesture, and he got stomped on by sage mode Naruto. The level of destruction Luffy is capable of was already surpassed by THEN in Naruto. Let alone Madara, let alone a host of the ten tails, let alone Jyuubidara.
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That was an example of his averages, though. Outside of Guy, would you say Naruto has better feats?
What about KOing the Kraken while under the deep ocean? Simply surviving the pressure of ocean depths is a durability feat, let alone KOing a monster.
On the Susanoo: Yeah, Madara's Susanoo cleaves mountains. The Fifth hokage can't come close to that, but she would have killed him if he wasn't an immortal regenerator at the time (While also weaker then alive, I realize.)
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Um, Tsunade only came close to killing him because of the fact that he was toying with them the entire fight. He even made five Susano'o clones fight the Kage for him, because they were so weak they couldn't even deal with his clones. And Tsunade never came close to touching him in Perfect Susano'o, none of the Kage did. The only reason it got cancelled is because the edo tensei was undone by Itachi, and even then, he could have used it again, if he wasn't so proud, and so unfathomably stronger than the Kage.
And even the Biju couldn't beat Madara when he was alive, and he only had one Rinnegan at that point.
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Yes, I addressed this. It's CIS, which is active in board fights, unlike PIS.
He was holding back against Guy as well. (For example, he could have nuked the entire battlefield, giving no opportunity to dodge.)
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Um, Madara wasn't holding back against Gai, lol. He couldn't even react to his attacks. He was going to be able to possibly kill Gai, but Minato warped his Goudama away. Madara tried to kill Gai, but Gai was too fast, and strong for him to do anything. It doesn't mean though, that Gai's attacks surpassed Madara's healing factor, which allowed him to shrug off getting his torso blown off, and even getting bisected at the waist.
That's why Madara said Gai was the best he's ever fought, at least in terms of Taijutusu.
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In general, both One Piece and Naruto are pretty hard to measure. Ask any fan who's faster, and you'll get a different answer (Nami redirects lightning, or Itachi reacts to a Sasuke move said to be 100 times faster then sound, or whatever.)
I know Kishi himself at one point claimed his characters can't dodge bullets, which I don't really agree with especially against Raikage and up. On average, the speed feats of both universes are DBZ type "some degree of insane but incalculable speed" though...
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Kishi never said he's characters can't dodge bullets, it was the people that debated against the verse that claimed that.
What Kishi said was that gun didn't fit in with the motif of the story. I.E ninjas with guns, when gun were consider to be to loud for the ninja world.
Read back through the Guy/Madara fight. I forgot he broke Madara's Susanoo.. O_O
Heh, I actually crammed in the last 100 chapters in a single sitting, and was still processing how disappointing the finale was (Not to say there weren't things I didn't enjoy. Jolly Roger graffiti was a nice shout out.), so I'll just concede the match to Madara for now.
Anyways, for the hell of it, could the Madara that fought Guy tank a 1,000 cracker fist attack from Kenshiro, and go on to defeat him in Musou Tensei mode?
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
I'm actually curious if a pissed off Luffy could break Susanoo? While I still give the fight to Madara, I'm actually curious if Luffy has enough force to do that with maybe not one of his single punch bigger attacks (like Grizzly Magnum) but more so a constant barrage like the Jet Gattling Gun (maybe even the armament haki version)?
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Last edited by Yamcha on Jan 26th, 2015 at 09:01 PM
Yeah, a Susanoo or Kurama chakra sheath beats even Logia in raw power.
Thing is, Haki lets characters treat energy like a physical object, so it's not a stretch to say it might react with Chakra energy, in much the same way natural energy hurt Obito and Madara, despite their power.
But it's speculative, and there's no way to say for sure. *Shrugs*
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
When did guy break any Susano'o? I don't even recall Rikudo Madara ever even using Susano'o.
That said, Madara definitely wins this. As Gogeta pointed out, he pretty comfortably put out a small country level meteor shower, and his Gudoudama weapons atomize everything they touch. Moreover, he tagged Minato three times before he even had the chance to teleport, whilst someone like the Raikage couldn't tag Minato at all. And the Raikage is at least upper-hypersonic by virtue of speed scaling.
And Naruto characters not being able to dodge bullets at this point wouldn't make much sense.
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