- Winner by incapacitation (restrained for an unreasonably long period of time, knocked out, otherwise taken out of action, etc.) or death.
- BFR is OFF
- No summoning of tools or outside assistance. Only what is reasonably considered standard gear may be used.
- Prep Time (5 seconds of prep before each match, then both character will hear the "ding" and the fight will begin)
- And for the fun one.....ALL FIGHTS ARE IN CHARACTER. That's right, you'll have to argue as you'd argue in the VS section. Just a lot better.
Location
(please log in to view the image)
The room of spirit and time. Essentially a featureless environment with a ring the size of the planet earth. You will start on opposite ends and then find each other.
REWARD
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: THIS DIC-
A custom signature and the title "the greatest hero"
So Alan Scott keeper of the green flame vs the mighty Thor god of thunder.
Or magical Starheart wielding energy being vs energy absorbing magical countering weapon, hmmn. I’m almost ashamed at how easy this is, almost and not b/c Alan is weak. He is quite powerful, but this is just a horrible matchup for him.
Alan aka “Sentinel’s body was composed of the green flame, the magic that powers him.” As you can see Mordru left him comatose and near death by taking much of it. https://imgur.com/qbLzzor
Mr Terrific states, “your body, your being is composed entirely of green flame.” https://imgur.com/D237Ycc
MJOLNIR’S MENU
So no need to delay the inevitable outcome, my main avenue of attack will simply be for mjolnir to devour this green flame energy. Like here when mjolnir gobbles down the magical flame of the underworld god Pluto, in mid flight. Hercules was completely paralyzed from the same attack that Mjolnir just ate on the run. https://imgur.com/onvAtRD
And like here when the nuclear energy being the Presence gets swallowed up by mjolnir, and only saved by Thor’s mercy. https://imgur.com/a/Gjfq8mR
By the way, this is no small feat as the Presence has resisted absorption before by generating the energy of a small sun, and overloading a massive atomic amoeba. But of course he couldn’t come close to overloading mjolnir. https://imgur.com/GtRx8U3
And the Presence has one-shotted via bfr a charging Hulk with a mere gesture of his fingers, by producing the force of a miniature hydrogen bomb. So the Presence while pretty powerful still got eaten relatively easily by mjolnir. https://imgur.com/YeBLgVH https://imgur.com/Vh1K1Df https://imgur.com/olcnwD8
So, a few more examples of energy based beings being absorbed against their will by mjolnir. There are plenty more, as absorption is probably what mjolnir does best.
The radiation from X-ray is completely absorbed while Vector’s power is resisted by Thor. Leaving a depleted X-Ray koed while mjolnir used his energy to also koed Vector. Likewise, Alan will be depleted and incapacitated. (please log in to view the image)
Mjolnir munches on Electro and then sends him bye-bye. Of course I can just keep enough of the green flame to leave Alan koed, repurpose the energy, or completely obliterate him with anti-force. https://imgur.com/a3xZmUh
Mjolnir is so good at absorbing energy that it even does so, when not directed by Thor. As just a byproduct of fighting the Phoenix Force, mjolnir absorbs small traces of it. Even more than the Phoenix cage that was designed for such a task. https://imgur.com/hksg08C
And just for the record, magic is no defense. All it does is make one more susceptible to being drained. Just ask the Wrecking Crew. Notice how they were koed from having their powers drained and turned back into mere mortals. Here the complete draining process will more than likely kill Alan, since he is all energy. But even if it didn’t he would still end up being just a powerless regular human. https://imgur.com/VlmLsjR
Loki amped Wrecker left powerless again and turned back into a mere mortal. https://imgur.com/byTB73b
Cosmic forces of limitless power still gets eaten and rechanneled. So good luck trying to overload mjolnir or attempting to regain your energy from it. https://imgur.com/RkNFI5v
Perrikus the dark god of power unlimited and infinite energy, still had his energy absorbed by mjolnir. Apparently Mjolnir guzzles energy like Thor chugs mead, “As mighty mjolnir doth drink of thine energy!” https://imgur.com/a/jPKvOdS
The Power Cosmic energy + Loki’s magical amp combined in a zooming Silver Surfer was still consumed by mjolnir. And Thor was holding back suspecting that the Silver Surfer had been tricked. Alan Scott’s power will be a delicious delicacy for mjolnir. https://imgur.com/6o3rcDu https://imgur.com/SU8zwDA
Mjolnir can fly to the end of the galaxy and back in well under 60 seconds. So I actually have the speed advantage with mjolnir, since it is faster than anyone or anything else in this match. https://imgur.com/wpWYyua
CHOMP CHOMP
1.Thor uses the five seconds of prep to create a shield. A shield that can withstand the Phoenix Force. And starts spinning mjolnir as fast as he can. https://imgur.com/vWStTb5
2.As soon as the match starts Mjolnir absorbs the green flame energy of Alan. Just like he does with a radioactive Kang below. https://i.imgur.com/qffHit2.jpg
On more than one occasion, and magnifies the power of it. To the point of Kang reaching critical mass where he feared for his own safety. Bypassing Kang’s immunity to radioactivity is very impressive. https://i.imgur.com/UGsM2Ah.jpg
Thor summons the winds from a thousand worlds and creates a cosmic hurricane. https://imgur.com/yGY4Jri
Mordru was able to break Alan’s concentration by causing vibrations in his inner ear. Just imagine what the winds from a thousand worlds would do. https://i.imgur.com/wP1LPsK.jpg
3.Which results in Alan being koed, trapped, dead, or otherwise incapacitated. Just like Magneto below, Alan has no defense as his shields will be instantly sucked dry leaving him exposed and unprotected. https://imgur.com/VJCRtBg
Alan is definitely vulnerable to an energy drain attack. Vandal Savage using magical dust leeched Alan’s power, and attacked him with the green flame in the form of Jade. Alan was drained to the point that he had to fight Savage hand to hand. The starheart energy eventually sided with Alan, but he was almost completely drained by a magical element that is far inferior to Mjolnir. https://imgur.com/a/W5nkTUJ
The battlefield is essentially a featureless environment. So Mjolnir will absorb Alan’s energy from every direction free of concern for the welfare of other living things. Also notice how mjolnir can absorb energy, precede to attack another energy absorber with that same energy, and then siphon it all back. https://imgur.com/qQQSHYA
Mjolnir has worldwide energy absorption range. So Alan cannot run or hide from having his energy drain on this Earth sized battlefield. https://imgur.com/1pleoeq
Mjolnir has impressive tracking capabilities. And Alan will be easy to find as he will be the only one with an energy signature in this featureless environment. https://imgur.com/vPsuNSb
What matters here is that Mjolnir being utilized by Worthy Thor, has never shown a limit to the amount of energy it can absorb and re-channel. Plus it’s a 100X energy multiplier. So not only does Mjolnir significantly weakens Alan immediately, its attacks can also grow in power to a ridiculously broken level.
The above scans are so relevant here, b/c they show what Thor and mjolnir can do as a tag team. First we have a Thanosi energy absorbed, then multiplied a 100 times and returned. Next Thor combines the most powerful of storms with an anti-force blast from mjolnir to achieve victory. An attack stated to be capable of destroying a planet. Absolutely confirming that I can do everything I mentioned in this post. The above scans display my plan here for the most part. Meaning mjolnir will absorb the starheart/green flame energy of Alan anywhere and everywhere on the battlefield. Plus Thor is literally dropping a planet size storm on his head. If Beatboks tries to play a defensive game, he gets absorbed very quickly. If he tries to blitz me somehow, I’m shielded and mjolnir is faster than him so he gets absorbed very quickly. Just in case Beatboks attempts to scale off of Jay’s speed. It’s clear that Alan is not in Jay’s speed class in combat. https://imgur.com/RsI19fO https://imgur.com/fBtWZrC https://imgur.com/DOo8Hps
Or Jesse Quick’s speed class, she was just unable to damage him because he was amped. Alan was possessed by the full power of the Starheart. Not just a fraction of it in the form of the green flame, which is his normal power level. https://imgur.com/JrOgyZv
Thor dominates Alan here under these stips. Judges remember all the great power of Alan that Beatboks will show, is going to return back at him multiplied by a hundred if necessary. Beatboks shouldn’t be surprised as Alan just doesn’t have the HEART to go the distance against Worthy Thor with Mjolnir.
The funniest (or most ironic) thing about Beatbok’s post is his laughable accusation of energy draining being out of character for Thor. While he attempts to turn GL Alan into Pro. X or Martian Manhunter with extremely rare scans of Alan using TP and hypnotism, on fodder human goons from a bygone era. From over 70 plus years ago beginning with Alan’s original appearances in comics not published by DC. lol Judge please look at those scans, it took great concentration for Alan to compel lowly henchman to tell the truth. On top of everything else it is not battlefield effective to say the least, or in character for Alan to use in a fight and not an investigation.
Also Beatboks uses two accidental kills from Alan and one that may or may not have been, to prove what exactly? Cause I have no clue lol. Is he attempting to turn Alan into some Punisher style murdering vigilante? The same Alan who helped and protected his long time arch rival Solomon Grundy from Etrigan. And this was after Grundy threaten his wife and destroyed his lantern battery, resulting in his home being blowed up. If Alan was bloodlusted it still wouldn’t help him here anyways, but he certainly isn’t. For instance its not like Thor has ever fought and beaten powerful enemies who wanted to kill him, oh wait you mean like what happens all the time in Thor comics.
By the way in those ancient scans, Alan was out-reacted and knocked out by a fodder goon with a rifle, and one with club. He also got tied up to a chair, and was unable to break free from rope. So thanks for them Beatboks, after all they are the scans that you chose to present here. https://imgur.com/VpWJ8zh https://imgur.com/Zwik7G5
Besides, Beatboks did all that tomfoolery only to just shoot energy beams at me with his first attack. Lol
And those are the scans of the assault, which wasn’t real by the way. Also notice how “murderer” Alan was so distraught at the damage he thought he had done. That he almost committed suicide. It would be completely out of character for him to try this level of assault as his first attack, without his opponent having harm others in a deadly way. But Judges please allow this tactic to go on as unopposed by me. So Beatboks first attack against me will be massive energy blasts, I’m good with that.
Meaning Thor is certainly without question in character by using mjolnir to absorb energy directed at him. My OP is filled with such instances, and below is quite possibly the best such instance against Glory. Glory was the physical embodiment of an entire pantheon of dark gods, and contained within it over ten thousand entities and the worlds they were worshipped on. So Glory blasted Thor with the totality of all its power and mjolnir absorbed it all. Not only that, but also rechanneled it and returned fire into a blast that defeated Glory. Yeah /BZ, Alan is not surviving that and comparatively the nuclear explosion of Nagasaki is like one drop of water in all the oceans of the world combined.
Anyways Beatboks has such a terrible misunderstanding of the rules, even though Damborgson made it plain.
And so we are under the VS rules which state basic knowledge of opponents and full capacity.
This means Thor will know that Alan is powered by energy. So Thor understands he isn’t fighting a brick like Hercules or Ego’s humanoid cannon fodder army. But just like with Electro, the Presence, etc, when Thor realizes he is fighting an energy being he does go for a mjolnir energy drain early on. Plus mjolnir can sense the true nature of an opponent’s power and reveal that to Thor. Like against Juggernaut once Thor learned that his power was magical in origin, he immediately changed tactics by using mjolnir to create a sphere negating all magical energy. Interesting, I know another character in this very BZ that is also powered by magic, evil chaos magic to be precise, decisions, decisions. Here Thor already knows before the match start that his foe is energy powered, so no he will not fight like a brick. And nothing in the rules state that Thor must fight like a retard, so Alan can have a chance. Thor said it best Beatboks, “Hast thou not heard that knowledge is power?! And, this particular knowledge doth blaze the path to thy defeat!”
Just Solomon Grundy breaking Alan’s construct causes him feedback, and Superman has to come in for the save. https://imgur.com/yxYPGpA
Compare that to Mjolnir resisting the power of Annihilus “invincible” cosmic control rod. And Mjolnir forces the energies of the cosmic control rod back upon Annihilus, causing massive feedback and painfully stunning him. Alan would suffer a great deal of painful feedback from Thor destroying his constructs with powerful blows, and mjolnir breaking his concentration by forcing his green flame back upon him in a devastating manner. https://i.imgur.com/jef73j4.jpg
Alan’s constructs doesn’t come close to stopping Black Adam (not WW3). Black Adam just continues to power through and 1-shot Alan, while also making quick work of the JSA. https://imgur.com/a/WdI1L2E
Alan gets a free sucker shot on Black Adam while he is restraining Powergirl. Which doesn’t even hinder Black Adam at all, as he continued to press his attack. https://imgur.com/I0g6KI1
Thor is certainly capable of just smashing through them with or without mjolnir. Here he is smashing through the armor of the Celestial Exitar, enough to create a hole. His blow rocked the entire planet and nearby mountaintops were reduced to rumble. Alan’s constructs are not standing up to Thor’s planetary striking power. https://imgur.com/bTwju3W https://imgur.com/6dRomna
Here, Warrior Madness Thor hits Beta Ray Bill so hard that a planet is destroyed. This is crazy considering that Thor didn’t hit the planet, he hit Beta Ray Bill who was on the ground. Alan’s shields and constructs have been destroyed by far less physical force. https://imgur.com/ME6Lcr7
Hooray, Alan has travel speed feats just like about every other high herald. Means next to nothing when Mjolnir can reach double and triple the speed of light. https://imgur.com/0Rv3MGm
Also, Alan has combat speed showings that are even worse than Thor. Here he gets blitzed by a flying turkey aka a Feitheran jobber. https://imgur.com/kN3Wcuj
I see your brainwash Wolverine fight against a holding back Thor, and raise you an insane and dying Vandal Savage with a brain tumor. He pummels Alan and koes him. https://imgur.com/a/zYqjfQq
Finally when Solomon Grundy destroyed Alan’s lantern, the green flame power didn’t go into anything or anyone even remotely capable of manipulating/controlling it. As seen in Beatboks own scans it went into an inanimate object a vehicle, an unevolved animal a squirrel, and a young girl a toddler still playing with dolls for goodness sake. Any attempt to equate that with somehow being able to take energy back from Mjolnir is beyond ridiculous. Heralds, gods, skyfathers have been drained by mjolnir and unable to will their power back to them, but Alan drawing in his power back from a hatchback shows that he can. Lol child please. Below the Ultra-humanite was able to drain Alan’s green flame and power his entire city. The JSA had to save him as he was completely powerless on his own.
Sorry for the delay, been a little snowed under this week.
So I've read Mutant's first two posts and rather than hold things up will address them and cover whatever he had in the third in my closer.
Well pretty much what I expected.
Everything hinging on an energy drain that Thor simply doesn't do out of the gate, and NEEDS to.
in character
There appears to be some question that Alan doesn't kill when I clearly showed he does.
Apparently Mutant can't tell the difference between killing a single adversary and killing an entire city of Civilians. Of course Alan judged himself badly when he thought he had killed MILLIONS OF INNOCENTS. doesn't change the fact that in the what of battle tat was exactly what he did. before he even processed it without realising they were all Brainwave mental constructs and not real people he killed every member of the Japanese military and the entire civilian population of a Japanese city.
Here shows his willingness to kill even more. https://imgur.com/0sPPIU2
here Alan talks about all the times he's tried to kill Grundy.
The difference is of course as in keeping with forum rules I have not forgotten a power. PLUS I have used it well into the the battle after having used the normal instinctual and oft used abilities
From a time when he was inexperienced in the use of his power. In All Star Squadron which was set a year and a half later he was able to wipe the minds of every JSAer and All Star who fought Utra's war on America of all memories of the Infinity Inc who travelled back in time to help them so that the JSAers would not prevent their own children from being born by the knowledge.
not to mention the fact that he has mind controlled Dr Fate, Telepathically matched Brain Wave and Hector Hammond and while disembodied without any green flame power TP overpower Krona
I'll look for and post scans in closer.
Energy manipulation/ Absorption
I have to laugh however at the irony
so let's look at the scans Mutant presented here.
Thor while fighting alongside a team mate Hercules stands by and watches an energy blast strike and immobilise his team mate that he had the power to absorb but never did. He THEN goes on to a long two panel monologue before actually doing anything about it.
Thor attaches Presence with lightning, strikes the ground with Mjilnor and then monologues on for a page and a half before attempting to drain The presence.
every scan presented by Mutant of him absorbing energy is an example of him being slow to go to that power. I am not saying he wont do so, just that in character it's not his go to move.
You see True Believers being in character under forum rules doesn't mean a character wont use seldom used powers. I never said it did. In fact recent amendments to the rules pretty much state that a character wont forget a power that he needs to use to win/survive. what I said was
Mutant's own scans confirm that, he attacked Presence with a hammer strike first.
Speaking of which we are supposed to be impressed by the power of Presence because he could BFR Hulk in Defenders 56. Yet in that very same issue a member of the defenders not known for energy manipulation could tank that energy and disperse it not once but twice. https://imgur.com/kawMSgJ https://imgur.com/w3IxELY https://imgur.com/5sKJLbP
so yeah being able to handle that level of energy is great proof that one can handle the level of energy that can break Classic Fate's shields and shield from what his shields couldn't
He shows Vandal Savage leeching Green Flame energy but fails to show that Alan was able to control that energy even when leeched. https://imgur.com/632mtgu
despite having none of the starheart left himself he was still able to control it
In fact that is a common and very repetitive theme in Alan's life. https://imgur.com/wgqoEyR https://imgur.com/Yq3lKso
Even from his GL days when he needed a ring he could still control the energy even when the ring was taken from him.
[bCombat Speed[[/b]
The reason Normal humans could tag him in his classic tales was because back then he was a normal human wearing a magic ring. He hadn't spent decades internalising it's power and changing to magic energy itself. Mutant himself has posted the scans that prove the change now.
Re the Jay Garrick scans from JSA 62, mutant fails to mention that Alan wasn't present when Dr Midnite who could see the aura around Jay confirmed he was possessed by Spirit king and was an enemy. Instead he was consoling Hal Jordan/Spectre trying to get him into the game. He had no reason to expect an attack from Jay.
It's getting late. I'll read mutant's last post and try and get my closer in over the weekend
Visual representation of the Green Flame being snuffed out.
By the way, Thor is more than capable of beating Alan even without energy drain. As seen previously Solomon Grundy, Black Adam, and Vandal Savage all has koed him with just punches and physical attacks. But how can a being of pure energy be susceptible to physical harm, you may wonder? Since Alan desires for his energy to take biological form, he can be damaged as such. So Alan can be hurt severely physically to the point of being paralyzed, and unable to even heal himself. Because it takes every ounce of concentration for him to keep the Starheart in check. And Thor is attacking him on all fronts by absorbing his energy, breaking his concentration with a cosmic storm, and physically beating him senseless.
Just to hammer the point home, here are more instances of Grundy beating the hell out of Alan throughout the years. So even if Thor had to fight like a dumb brick, he would just smash through Alan’s constructs, tank damage, and knock him out. Grundy has done exactly that plenty of times. https://imgur.com/a/BWtzCEi
Thor has even caused harm to Galactus with a mjolnir throw. Alan and his constructs will be smashed to pieces from such a throw. https://imgur.com/2vclm46
So Beatboks first attack is just to blast Thor with energy, again thanks. See Blastaar’s energy blasts absorbed by mjolnir in combat. And on another occasion mjolnir scatters the force of his blasts to the four winds. https://imgur.com/FrlNLJ9 https://imgur.com/pGltw2D
This is silly anyways and irrelevant. It doesn’t make a different if Alan is bloodlusted or not, because his first attack is still just a city destroying energy blast. Even without mjolnir Thor took that type of blast from Kang just fine. Of course he was distraught over the loss of life, but he was perfectly fine. Even without absorbing the blast, Thor will not be hindered by it. Plus Beatboks has yet to show how he will get pass my shields. https://imgur.com/a/oStNnBz
Beatboks wrote
This is flat out wrong. Go back and look at the scans, Thor attacks the Presence’s mutated army with lightning, and knocks them down by striking the ground. Then Thor’s first attack against the Presence directly is to drain him of his energy. Similarly he drained Electro immediately, and used power nullification on Juggernaut immediately once he found out the nature of Juggy’s power. Thor does use different tactics other than punches and kicks, once he has knowledge of his opponents. And he has common knowledge of Alan’s power here. https://imgur.com/gallery/Gjfq8mR
Like I said before this is just a terrible matchup for Alan. Just look at all the evidence presented here for mjolnir being able to absorb/manipulate energy from opponents, without them being able to control it back.
Silver Surfer numerous times, including an amp once
Firelord
Loki
Kang twice
Electro
Blastaar twice
Annihilus
Thanosi
Pluto
The Wrecking Crew
Wrecker, with amp
X-Ray
Presence
Perrikus
Magneto
Glory
Megatak
Hyperion
Leir
Hela
Even some of the Phoenix Force accidentally
Not to mention cosmic forces of unlimited energies as previously shown, and a galaxy destroying null bomb. https://imgur.com/a/WzruVd6
Even more impressive than all that, Thor used 2 mjolnirs to absorb the power of a bomb meant to kill all the gods that ever existed or would exist. Then Thor used that incredible power against his opponent Gorr the god-butcher. Plus of course there are many other instances, but I have to draw the line somewhere and finish this BZ lol. https://imgur.com/a/s78ihKy
So Judges how many instances so far have Beatboks shown of mjolnir being unable to absorb energy? Or unable to keep the absorbed energy for whatever purpose Thor wishes? That’s right nil, nada, nought, and zero times.
Beatboks first attack is a city destroying beam attack, followed by a Thor construct, and then a mental attack that is supposed to weaken Thor’s resolve to fight. So far, Beatboks has not even showed one instance of a beam attack hurting Thor or blunt force attack from something like a construct, or a mental assault damaging Thor. But I have a ridiculous amount of evidence proving how Thor has already performed every detail in my plan, and how Alan has been defeated by such. For instance we have 4 showing of the green flame being absorbed, by Ultra-Humanite, Vandal Savage, Mordru, and Jade. Yes, Jade was even able to absorb energy directly from the full starheart entity. https://imgur.com/a/KotGbVW
In conclusion my obvious plan of energy draining was simple, efficient, and effective. It has been proven that Thor will attack with energy draining via mjolnir as a first attack. When he has common knowledge of his opponent being an energy entity like he does here. Plus Beatboks first attack is to shoot energy at Thor, whose proven response is to absorb that energy via mjolnir. The bottom line is that Alan is getting eaten by mjolnir. And even if he wasn’t Thor would just eventually beat him into a pulp like Grundy, Black Adam, and others have. Mjolnir counters the green flame perfectly. RIP ALAN SCOTT (please log in to view the image)(please log in to view the image)
I normally go into detail as of why I choose one debater over the other but I think this once the situation was rather straightforward as the discussion went over as you'd expect in a Thor vs Green Lantern match. Honestly this is just though as nails for the energy manipulator, Thor has some of the best absorption feats out there bar non, all in that while totally in character (by the simple reason energy absorption is a defensive move and héroes can go crazy unlike as it happens in offense). I'm willing to entertain the idea of Thor not absorbing energy off the bat… But Beatboks started blasting energy at him at full power, almost forcing Thor into the defensive position he doesn't want to be in. Supermutant also shot down rather quickly the idea that speed was an effective defensive tool against Mjolnir and it at least muddles a bit the advantages Beatboks does have.
So yeah, the openers and the sheer difficulty of the MU broke the debate for me pretty early. I think Supermutant made the right choice by attacking Beatboks claims and pointing out the recklessness of his initial assault. It'd be a thought battle but I'd give Thor a decisive edge here.
I enjoy tourneys more from an underdog possition. I find it boring otherwise.
I always pick my characters on that basis. Makes it nore fun to come up with an angle.
Honestly all mutant had to do for the win was point out 95% of the evidence I offered was invalid (which I expected).
Drafting allowed me to choose a green Lantern and I chose Alan. BUT that meant all Sentinel (from a time Alan was more than a GL) feats were not available to me. As pre crisis is no longer canon (some of it has been referrenced but not much) it meant that only about 4 or 5 of my scans should have been acceptable.
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Sep 1st, 2019 09:17 AM
