Intelligence And Facts Were Being Fixed

May 2, 2005, Washington Monthly, article by Kevin Drum

"INTELLIGENCE AND FACTS WERE BEING FIXED AROUND THE POLICY"....The Times of London has gotten hold of the minutes of a private meeting between Tony Blair and his staff that was held on July 23, 2002 after talks with the Bush administration. An excerpt (emphasis mine):

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

CDS said that military planners would brief CENTCOM on 1-2 August, Rumsfeld on 3 August and Bush on 4 August.

The two broad US options were:

(a) Generated Start. A slow build-up of 250,000 US troops, a short (72 hour) air campaign, then a move up to Baghdad from the south. Lead time of 90 days (30 days preparation plus 60 days deployment to Kuwait).

(b) Running Start. Use forces already in theatre (3 x 6,000), continuous air campaign, initiated by an Iraqi casus belli. Total lead time of 60 days with the air campaign beginning even earlier. A hazardous option.

....The Defence Secretary said that the US had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in US minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections.

In other words, by summer of 2002 Bush had already decided on war regardless of Saddam Hussein's actions; democracy promotion was not even mentioned in passing as a reason for the war; postwar reconstruction was an issue of no concern; and, as Andy Card tacitly admitted even at the time, the "marketing campaign" for the war was deliberately timed to coincide with midterm elections.

I wonder how much attention this newly uncovered memo will get in the American press?

Well they did attack the united states, er no, that wasn't them. Well we had to get those WMD's , uh no, forget that one, there were none. FREEDOM, yeah we have to free them and force democracy on them.

As for the author's comment," I wonder how much attention this newly uncovered memo will get in the American press?", why would the press pay any attention to this story when the have the "runaway bride" and Michael Jackson?

Didn't the majority of the world assume this like 3 weeks into Iraq.

How is this new 2 years later?

umm....because its documented evidence perhaps?

The mayority of the world thought it would only last three weeks? Then a lot of people are idiots.

Anyways the attention in the US media, minimal if anything at all.

Wow documented evidence...what does that change?

No one is going to do anything to the US or England because a document has just been uncovered. No one CAN do anything to the US or England.

This shit is hardly news worthy. Like Bush's intentions were obvious from the start.

You're right about the run-away bride story, but I find it interesting no one made a thread about North Korea launching a short range test missle in Japan's direction.

Originally posted by Linkalicious
Wow documented evidence...what does that change?

For one thing it might make a few ardent Bush supporters figure out that what they chose to believe was complete Bullsh*T.

This is also news worthy because it confirms what many believed. But perhaps you are more interested in the fluff stories that CNN and FOX feed you.

I don't know what's worse, people who believe what the bush admin has told them, or the people who just don't give a sh*t.

I was wondering why there hadn't been a thread created on the missile launch yet. Although it was a short range missile. I doubt they'd have any chance of launching anything at the US without it being blown from the sky.

Cause for concern though.

-AC

Originally posted by KharmaDog
For one thing it might make a few ardent Bush supporters figure out that what they chose to believe was complete Bullsh*T.

This is also news worthy because it confirms what many believed. But perhaps you are more interested in the fluff stories that CNN and FOX feed you.

I don't know what's worse, people who believe what the bush admin has told them, or the people who just don't give a sh*t.

Might....but it won't. As long as the US is filled with loyal Bush supporteres like Jackie M., then this article will do nothing.

Yes, North Korea shooting 'test' missles towards Japan is most certainly "fluff." I mean, heaven forbid I prioritize that event over the unconvering of a document that did nothing more than confirm what the whole world already believed.

Lets not pay attention to what's going on in Northern Asia. It's not like a Korean attack on Japan is going to affect the United States or Canada. Oh wait....if Korea attacks Japan who's obligation is it to step up and help out?? Yup, the United States.

It's not that I don't give a shit. I just have my priorities straight.

Originally posted by Linkalicious
It's not that I don't give a shit. I just have my priorities straight.

of coarse you do! and since it was already your opinion that bush fabricated reasons for war , by default that made it fact, OBVIOUSLY. i mean...you are the center of the universe, correct?

so why rehash old news? ...although for the first time we have documented proof, which if circulated would prove to many what the facts behind this war are...but it doesnt matter to YOU, so perhaps you should request that this thread be closed 🙄 glad we have you to invade threads you dont like and spam them with "WHO CARES!?!?!?".

Originally posted by PVS
of coarse you do! and since it was already your opinion that bush fabricated reasons for war , by default that made it fact, OBVIOUSLY. i mean...you are the center of the universe, correct?

so why rehash old news? ...although for the first time we have documented proof, which if circulated would prove to many what the facts behind this war are...but it doesnt matter to YOU, so perhaps you should request that this thread be closed 🙄 glad we have you to invade threads you dont like and spam them with "WHO CARES!?!?!?".

Center of the Solar System to be exact. I thought everyone knew Henry Winkler was the center of the universe. 🙄

What have you been paying attentio to for the past 3 years? First Bush tells Saddam to disarm. Saddam says no because he doesn't have WMD. Bush "is convinced" that Saddam has weapons when every other weapons inspector in the world concluded he didn't have weapons of mass destruction...and then he went ahead and pre-emptively attacked Iraq. Sorry if I'm the only one that actually saw everything that the report described while it happened and drew my own conclusion. I'm surprised you didn't come to the same conclusion honestly....

And now to the important part. What is this document going to change? Nothing, absolutely nothing. The US will continue to rape the middle east, the world will b!tch and moan, and the UN will turn their backs...

😆 I invaded this thread? I didn't know this thread had boundaries or borders to cross over.

And do me a favor and go quote KMC's rules about Spam. I'm sure you'll find what I been writing doesn't fit the criteria. I have every bit as much right to come in here and ask people why they care so much about this issue as either of you have making a thread to bring up the issue.

In the mean time, try worrying about something that is actually worth caring about. This information is helpful, but hardly news worthy.

Huh? I don't see any spam around here. Why the false accusations? Personally this news might be of some interest to some and not to others. You find this article informative that's good. You don't find it interesting that's your choice. No need to erupt on someone that might not find this article interesting.

next time i'll wait for his tenth 'who cares' post before i say anything.

as far as 'documented evidence', its not about the need to impress those who already know, but to prove to those who DONT know. granted, there are alot of JM's in america who will just shut their eyes and ears really tight to avoid the truth, there are also many who trust their commander in chief but may not given SOLID evidence.

thats the whole point. there is no point in anti-war talk toward those who are against the war as it is, nevermind this finding. thats just preaching to the choir. however, i thought the whole point of voicing and debating this topic is to attempt to convince those who DONT agree....well...thats why i debate here...or else...wtf is the point? if not we may as well just talk about the weather and exchange recipes.

many times the big roadblock in such a debate is the lack of bias-free evidence, now we have it. how is that not worth stating?

What debate were you actually looking to get involved in by providing unbiased evidence that the US was actually looking to remove Saddam with force?

Who can debate against that....it's a fact. And a recently discovered document isn't needed to illustrate that because Bush's actions speak louder than the words on the page.

He went to war. He removed Saddam. And he lied about WMD.

It's been the same story for over 2 years now.

Originally posted by Linkalicious
What debate were you actually looking to get involved in by providing unbiased evidence that the US was actually looking to remove Saddam with force?

Who can debate against that....it's a fact. And a recently discovered document isn't needed to illustrate that because Bush's actions speak louder than the words on the page.

He went to war. He removed Saddam. And he lied about WMD.

It's been the same story for over 2 years now.

no, the 'story' was that the intelligence gathered was incorrect because....well i forgot their lameass excuse but it implied that it was no fault of bush and company. that was the excuse, and the explanation of why they weren't lying. this disproves that excuse and placed responsibility, fault, and malicious intent on the head of the administration. get it?

now there is proof to give to the skeptical..>FINALLY! and you want to just forget it? really, i cant understand this, unless you just turned bornagain conservative?

They said there was "sufficient" evidence at the time to support the idea of Iraq having WMD. How sufficient that information was is illustrasted in this document. There wasn't evidence...it was fabricated.

I don't want people to "forget" about this document, but by the same token, I don't want them to create a huge uproar about it because in the grand scheme of things....it's not going to change anything.

The reason I say "who cares?" about this issue is because there are more important things going on in the world. Infact, I'm thoroughly disappointed that this thread was opened before some sort of thread about North Korea's missle testing this weekend. I'd rather see you and Kharma put your debating skills to work over something worth while like that....not this.

then open a thread about the missile test instead of crying about it in another thread...what do you think....good idea? or shall i just sit back and watch you browbeat some more? as if you have any right to dictate whats important and what isnt. you seem to think so, but i think you need to get over yourself.

well, go on then, post the thread. or shall we just waste our time with another sparring match?

The title of the thread is kind of misleading. Fixing facts aren't quite the same as totally lying about them. I know it's the title of the article, but still...

As for the relevance of this article, it is relevant, but not because it provides new information, rather because it confirms what the world has known for some time. What really bothers me is that no one will do anything about it. No one will ever do anything about it. Not other countries, not the citizens of this country or the "free press" of this nation. Why can't people think any farther than their microwave pizza, their recliner and their remote? Our bloated american self confidence is going to bite us in the ass if we don't take this country back from the politicians and the huge corporations they represent.

Originally posted by PVS
then open a thread about the missile test instead of crying about it in another thread...what do you think....good idea? or shall i just sit back and watch you browbeat some more? as if you have any right to dictate whats important and what isnt. you seem to think so, but i think you need to get over yourself.

well, go on then, post the thread. or shall we just waste our time with another sparring match?

Nah, not a good idea. Pissing on your day is infintily more entertaining. 😉

Of course I'm brow beating, but you, in all your time on KMC, have never been one to "sit back and watch" instead you're the guy that fuels the fire. Countless times I've seen you childishly go at Napalm, Jackie, and others. I think you're the one that needs to get over himself.

As much as I'd love to "spar" with you more, I think I'll just let this thread die, because you'll defend your stance to the very last breath...no matter how pitiful it is..

oh no, I'm the one that childishly goes after Jackie.

ok thank you for that linkalicious! 🙂
btw, you know a classic JM strategy is to agitate others in a thread she doesnt agree with in an effort to get it closed. pretty childish dont you think? im glad you are mature enough to not resort to such a tactic.

back to topic then? ✅