Was there any way the Soviet Union wouldn't have fallen? Was there anything the Russians could have done to stop that? Or was it inevitable?
What would the world situation be if the Soviet Union hadn't fallen?
__________________ "Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of the women." - the prophet Mohammed, single-handed inventor of terrorism, pedophilia and moon-god worship
The Soviet Union was not fascist. If it was, it would foster business interests and there would be no cold war because if the pre-WWII relationship with Europe and relationships with central and south america are any indications, not to mention projects such as paperclip and 731, America loves fascism and fascists.
__________________ Land of the free, home of the brave...
Do you think we will ever be saved?
In this land of dreams find myself sober...
Wonder when will it'll all be over...
Living in a void when the void grows colder...
Wonder when it'll all be over?
Will you be laughing when it's over?
Built a timemachine, gone back and stopped the insemination of the man who would become "The Gipper."
Hard to say, part of me wants to think Americans would have tired of the "Red Scare" by now, but part of me knows how the American public as a whole thinks. Probably what another poster said, multiple proxy wars where smaller nations are nothing more than pawns to the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. and their schemes for resources.
Ya, I don't buy that socialist crap about fascism being defined by corporate interests.
I wasn't writing a dissertation, feel free to replace "fascist" with "dictatorial" or "authoritarian". The term was used to denote the ultimate power in the nation falling under the will of a single individual. Hence, not communist.
EDIT: and I hate to use wiki to make my points, but here is their sort of into to fascism:
One thing of note, if the U.S.S.R. hadn't buckled, they (probably) wouldn't have left Afghanistan and it's possible that the extreme Islamic world would still be against them and pro-America.
American decadence (as seen by Sayyid Qutb) was one of the primary reasons for the denouncing of the American way of life as sinful/corrupt/non-muslim. Qutb reached these conclusions as a student in Colorado in the... 50s? iirc.
When he returned to Egypt, he and other fundamentalists (not jihadiis at this point) formed groups bent on removing the American influence from Egyptian politics. He and others were imprisoned and tortured, and Qutb designed a philosophy of Jahilliya (I'm sure that isn't spelled correctly) that allowed for the killing of those who "suffered" from "Jahillya" (basically corruption to the point where one is no longer a muslim and sacrifices their right to life). Al Qaeda's #2, and largely considered their ideological leader, Ayman al Zawahari, comes from this Qutb tradition in Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood.
Bin Laden, on the other hand, became estranged with America for 2/3 reasons. 1 and 2 are Lebanon/Palestine. I'm not overly aware of his thoughts about Israel and America in general prior to the invasion of Lebanon by the states in the 80s, but afterward, he was entirely radicalized against them. The other is that the Saudi government chose to allow Americans into the Kingdom to protect it against a potential invasion from Iraq, instead of allowing Bin Laden's mujahideen to do so. Bin Laden saw this as a personal and spiritual insult, and considers the presence of American troops on the Saudi peninsula (even though they are invited by the king) an act of war against muslims.
It is also important to remember that prior to 9-11, most jihadiis were not militantly anti-american. Jihad was more about local nationalist movements and not about global political struggle. Al Qaeda was generally seen as "outsiders" to the "real" jihadiis, like the precursors to the Taliban. God, it probably wasn't until Clinton bombed that pill factory that a significant portion of Jihadiis decided to engage in this cosmic anti-American war, rather than local nationalist struggles.
Afghanistan would be crazy now if America and Russia had continued fighting each other through there, but the anti-american Jihad, imho, is really unrelated. It is also questionable whether Bin Laden's Arab fighters received very much support from the Americans in Afghanistan anyways. Most American funds went through the ISI to local Afghan forces, not the foreign Arabs, who were supported more through Saudi channels.
Though I would argue on how much the U.S. helped the Afghans against the U.S.S.R., mind you, I don't think America did it to be nice, as much as they did it to further ruin the U.S.S.R. both financially and world opinion-wise. I believe the help given was considerable.
Hard to say if USSR would have fallen. Had Lenin lived 100 years or if Putin was older and immortal - possibly. Everything in between was either American lapdog-ish, paranoid or greedy..etc.
Had USSR lived, there probably wound't be all the smaller nations we see now which were mostly Russia anyway.
I just don't understand why Ukrainians incorporated latinised letter I in cyrilic. Seriously
And Russia was never fascist. What the hell? It was technically not communist either - for what communist in practice can be called.
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في هذا العالم ثلاثة أشخاص أفسدوا البشرية : راعي غنم , طبيب و راكب الجمال , و راكب الجمال هو أسوأ نشال و أسوأ مشعوذ بين الثلاثة
''The Russian Fascist Party (RFP), sometimes called the All-Russian Fascist Party, was a minor Russian emigre movement that was based in Manchukuo during the 1930s and 1940s.''
There were 2 types of fighters in Afghanistan. Local afghans and foreign Arabs. The US funneled money in through Pakistan's ISI, who would only fund the local Afghan groups, mainly because they wanted influence over whoever ended up running Afghanistan (the Taliban were a pet of the ISI for years). They didn't pay the foreigners because they couldn't control them, and they would leave after.
The Soviet Union was going to fall no matter if they got into an arms race or not. Nationalism and gross misconduct against the people in general would have led to steadily increasing revolts.
Because they were already using it normally anyway.
On a completely unrelated note, Russia is no longer number one for having the most billionaires, it dropped from having 74 to 27, in about a year's time. America is now in the clear lead with 54 'billies.' "Pwned"
Well, they're not fascist. You kind of missed my point entirely. I just wanted to clarify that Russia has not gone without fascism. Oh, I'm not counting Putin's subliminally fascist Russia either.
You should have asked me to elaborate instead of going on a condescending rampage based on an assumption.
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Someone once taught me that the world only makes sense when you force it to.
Last edited by Sorgo XIII on Mar 12th, 2009 at 09:13 AM
Well, I wouldn't call Canada a free country, what with racism being illegal and punishable and all. I guess this country's government doesn't consider freedom important compared to political correctness. If fascists hate freedom, then Canada is certainly run by fascists. The only way racists should be able to go to jail is if they physically harm someone or cause property damage. Racism should be legalized...not marijuana or gay marriage.
__________________ "Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of the women." - the prophet Mohammed, single-handed inventor of terrorism, pedophilia and moon-god worship
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Mar 11th, 2009 05:04 AM
