Yes we are, and that’s one of the US greatest and continuous folly.
Some people may found this harsh, but we have no rights to force our ideals on other nations in the name of freedom. It is not up to the West, especially the US to intervene politicaly in other governments because we think it is humane. The only time we should interfere, is if the people ask it of us. But we should also make it clear we’re just here to help, we’re not here to sustain them for along period of time, nor fight their wars.
The US also needs to make it absolutely clear to our agencies, especially the CIA, interfering in other countries government is a crime. Nonif or buts. And depending on the severity of it, they can face life in prison.
Originally posted by SquallX
Yes we are, and that’s one of the US greatest and continuous folly.Some people may found this harsh, but we have no rights to force our ideals on other nations in the name of freedom. It is not up to the West, especially the US to intervene politicaly in other governments because we think it is humane. The only time we should interfere, is if the people ask it of us. But we should also make it clear we’re just here to help, we’re not here to sustain them for along period of time, nor fight their wars.
The US also needs to make it absolutely clear to our agencies, especially the CIA, interfering in other countries government is a crime. Nonif or buts. And depending on the severity of it, they can face life in prison.
Right on 👆
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Trump is such a fool, he beat Hillary Clinton, what does that make her?
If (when?) a civil war breaks out in Venezuela and masses of innocent Venezuelans who just want to live their lives get killed in the crossfire, comfort yourself with that "at least Trump beat Hillary", buddy.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
There we go again, ****ing with other countries' politics and government structure for own benefit, until it inevitably backfires and we're left dealing with the blowback with stupid looks on our faces of feigned innocence and shock.
Won't it be funny when we then turn around and cry about Russian interference some more? Lol.
Btw any opinion on why Putin's "puppet" is dealing with Venezuela the way he is?
Originally posted by Putinbot1
I don't know enough about what's going on here to comment. Elections in Africa have my attention at the moment and Brexit.
Short version: another guy declared himself the true leader of Venezuela and not Maduro and Trump is supporting him.
This has pissed off the Russians and they have specifically come out in favor of Maduro. So I'm struggling as to why Putin had his "puppet" do something that would piss Russia off so much? 1200D chess maybe.
Btw it's good you don't deal in conspiracies, cuz so far any explanation I've been given has been a conspiracy(not from anyone on this board). My favorite is that Trump is doing this in order to push Venezuela even more into the loving arms of Russia. Made me chuckle.
Originally posted by Surturwhilst I've bèn to South America, it's the major land mass outside of the poles I've travelled least and therefore have least affinity and knowledge of.
Short version: another guy declared himself the true leader of Venezuela and not Maduro and Trump is supporting him.This has pissed off the Russians and they have specifically come out in favor of Maduro. So I'm struggling as to why Putin had his "puppet" do something that would piss Russia off so much? 1200D chess maybe.
Btw it's good you don't deal in conspiracies, cuz so far any explanation I've been given has been a conspiracy(not from anyone on this board). My favorite is that Trump is doing this in order to push Venezuela even more into the loving arms of Russia. Made me chuckle.
There’s no easy answer to the OP question; the US has a long and complex history w. Venezuela...
...and while i personally agree w. SqualliX...
The US also needs to make it absolutely clear to our agencies, especially the CIA, interfering in other countries government is a crime. Nonif or buts. And depending on the severity of it, they can face life in prison.
...i also know there’s no way this will happen.
The CIA and its counterparts world wide have been playing this game too long to simply stop.
In their defense theyre only the latest players in this game. Shadow politics have driven the world since men were throwing rocks at one another and living in caves.
Originally posted by Surtur
Won't it be funny when we then turn around and cry about Russian interference some more? Lol.Btw any opinion on why Putin's "puppet" is dealing with Venezuela the way he is?
Not sure what Trump's interest in Venezuela could be. I could speculate that he saw an opportunity to try his hand in the old game of imperialism and prop up a malleable new leader in exchange for natural resources, or that this is a reactionary unzipping of the raging hard-on conservatives have had about Venezuela for years now.
I have nothing to base it on other than a hunch, but I did find this article and found it interesting, as it suggests US military intervention in Venezuela has been on the horizon for months now:
The Next 90 Days Could Determine the Future of Venezuela and South America
Analyst José Negrón Valera looks at the military threat being built-up against Venezuela, especially right across the border in ColombiaThe strongest hypothesis that seems to be haunting the minds of intelligence analysts is that the United States is about to ask Colombia to unleash a violent aggression against Venezuela to prevent South America from slipping out of their hands.
It is Washington’s opinion that a war that involves the entire region will prevent Lula from governing Brazil again and for Macri, in Argentina, to achieve his plan to turn his country over to the International Monetary Fund.
By launching all the countries into a war adventure, an attempt is being made to quench all internal protest and reorient public opinion beyond their borders. History is plagued with similar strategies.
Reasons to worry
“These next 90 days are crucial and a great test. What happens in these three months will depend on how Venezuela dawns on January 1,” according to Diosdado Cabello, one of the most important leaders of the Bolivarian Revolution.
Does the Bolivarian leader have a substantial reason to use such a statement?
Let’s turn our attention to the tweet of the Commander of the Colombian National Army, Ricardo Gómez Nieto, who in the framework of the UNITAS naval exercises, speaks of his gratitude to the U.S. Army for its help in the “construction of a drinking water well” in the community of Rumonero.
The same “altruistic” strategy has been used by the US army in Afghanistan to consolidate itself in the territory.
In any case, the important thing to highlight is that it was precisely in this part of Guajira that Colombia established in 2015 the Task Force on Combined Medium Arms (FUTAM), equipped with armored combat weapons, artillery, infantry, logistical support and army aviation. Only by looking at the map where the “water wells” are built do we understand why Venezuela has a right to be concerned.
In addition, in recent days, political operators at the service of the aggression against Venezuela have made key statements that seem to filter the consensus reached among U.S. military leaders.
Marco Rubio, a Republican senator, revealed that “circumstances have changed” with regard to Venezuela. Rubio considers that military intervention in the country is an enormous possibility, since the government of Nicolás Maduro represents a “regional threat”, a view he shares with John Bolton, national security adviser to the White House.
On the other hand, Ramón Muchacho, spokesman for the Venezuelan opposition, declared that with regard to a military intervention against Venezuela, “at this moment there must be very intense, high level consultations between military experts, intelligence experts and some countries of the region, starting with Colombia, which after the United States is the country that has the power and the strength to act”.
Looking at the image that accompanies the State Department’s Spanish account, we can conclude that Rubio and Muchacho are not doing anything by themselves. Now, the question is not whether if they will attack the South American country but when.
A date and an excuse for the aggression
Samuel Moncada, Venezuela’s representative to the UN, has been emphatic in stating that his country is in the “most dangerous phase of the aggression. We are talking about how the migration and socio-economic issues have been manipulated to turn them into a matter of regional peace and security."
For Moncada, Brazil’s decision to send soldiers to the border on the pretext of dealing with the issue of Venezuelan immigration, as well as the intensification of the media coverage of the same issue on the border with Colombia, only seek to build an “act or event to provoke or justify war” to declare Venezuela a failed state that generates regional destabilization.
Also, the Organization of American States (OAS) has convened the Permanent Council on September 5 to address the “migration crisis caused by the situation in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela”. Representatives of the International Organization for Migration (IOM) and the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) have been invited to the meeting.
In Moncada’s opinion, if these organizations participate, “they will be validating the beginning of hostilities with the threat of the use of military force on a “preventive” basis to defend US security”.
What should Venezuela do?
The first action is to arm the border. The recent events of sabotage detected in the state of Zulia against the electrical infrastructure are a clue to Venezuela which region where Colombia will first attack.
In addition, it is imperative that, as is being done in the state of Táchira, the incorporation of as many militiamen as possible for the Integral Defense of the Nation be immediately activated. At the moment, the doctrine of the “war of all the people” is taking full effect.
Finally, we must understand that within the doctrine of Non-Conventional Warfare, aggression will not come in the traditional army against army form.
It is very likely that the aggression, at least initially, be given by what has been catalogued as the “ISIS” of South America. It will be the Colombian paramilitaries operating on the border, the U.S.’s armed wing in the region. Only this time it will have the full logistical and military support of Washington and the support of Colombia on the ground.
The second action is the comprehensive protection of the combined operation between Venezuela and the nations of Russia and China. These first weeks of September will be critical, as U.S. and NATO military assets are deployed along Colombia’s borders. The work of intelligence and prevention is fundamental.
The initiative to build water wells’ by the United States, in an area as sensitive as the Guajira, could be the public relations front to conceal the installation of electronic warfare weapons with the intention of causing serious incidents during Venezuela’s combined operation, especially in aircraft or missile tests. It is reasonable to think that electronic interference with the use of E3 AWACS satellites and aircraft could be planned in order to discredit this operation in the eyes of the international public.
Just as the nuclear bomb protects North Korea from being wiped out by NATO, the alliance with Russia and China guarantees Venezuela that it will not suffer the same fate as Libya, Iraq and Yemen. For the United States, delegitimizing Russia in South America is a major task.
The third action is to ensure internal cohesion.
A few days ago, websites linked to the Venezuelan opposition reported that “anonymous groups” launched pamphlets with messages alluding to upcoming destabilization operations against the government of Nicolás Maduro.
However, in a country where the opposition leadership is completely fragmented, what worries everyone the most is the economy. Despite the fact that the national government has signed price agreements with Venezuelan businessmen, a new stage of food shortages have begun to show up in some areas, especially in the area of meat, something that seemed to have been overcome.
Providing a climate of trust and stability to its own population is vital for the Venezuelan government to be able to face an external threat that is increasingly showing signs of becoming a reality.
At least that’s what Brian Winter, editor-in-chief of the influential media outlet Americas Quarterly thinks:
A friend of mine with high-level contacts in Washington DC recently told me ‘I’m afraid they’re going to do something crazy.”
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
No, it won't be funny, but if Putin does have any influence over Trump, then it's either not as much as is being suggested, or Trump acted without considering how much it would piss him off. It may have been the call of high-ranking military/intelligence officers who convinced Trump to sign off on it.Not sure what Trump's interest in Venezuela could be. I could speculate that he saw an opportunity to try his hand in the old game of imperialism and prop up a malleable new leader in exchange for natural resources, or that this is a reactionary unzipping of the raging hard-on conservatives have had about Venezuela for years now.
I have nothing to base it on other than a hunch, but I did find this article and found it interesting, as it suggests US military intervention in Venezuela has been on the horizon for months now:
[b]The Next 90 Days Could Determine the Future of Venezuela and South America
[/B]
It just seems to me that it's less Putin has any real influence over him and more just...sometimes Trump does shit that benefits Putin and sometimes he doesn't I'm not sure if he even considers Putin when he does these things. I think he stumbles into his successes and failures at times.
As for military intervention? I wouldn't be shocked. It's what Eisenhower called the Military Industrial Complex. We're always looking for a reason to make war one way or the other.
Originally posted by Surtur
It just seems to me that it's less Putin has any real influence over him and more just...sometimes Trump does shit that benefits Putin and sometimes he doesn't I'm not sure if he even considers Putin when he does these things. I think he stumbles into his successes and failures at times.As for military intervention? I wouldn't be shocked. It's what Eisenhower called the Military Industrial Complex. We're always looking for a reason to make war one way or the other.