I just saw the trailer for this movie and it looks very interesting. A documentary about a hardcore christian camp for young children and what the children are taught/brainwashed (depending on your viewpoint). Looks good.
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I fail to see the comparison. Christians have had their share of dark acts, and I'm not talking about the same, tired examples like The Crusades and The Inquisitions.
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You fail to see the comparison?
YOU are the one making it.
You are saying that young children being sent to a Christian camp to pray, worship in song, and "encounter" God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, and to learn how to have a voice in politics, science, and community to represent their faith.....
is somehow akin to terrorist training camps where people are taught hand-to-hand combat, target practice, bomb-making techniques, and believe in killing innocent men, women, and children is somehow a part of their religion.
The comparison is quite sound, in that they are being brainwashed into thinking and believing certain things, when their are far too young to fend off such an onslaught. Just because one brainwashing includes violence and the other doesn't does not mean that they aren't comparable in some ways.
I do not have problems with a person who has a belief, but I do have major problems with beliefs, in general. I was raised a Southern Baptist, which is borderline Pentocostal if you're unfamiliar. Its like one big cult that makes you feel bad for every little thing that you do. I had my beliefs shoved down my throat since birth, and I was at church every time the doors were open. Disillusionment came easy for me, because what these people are doing to the children in this movie, happened to me. I was brainwashed by a bunch of radical zealots who tell you what to believe, and will chastize and punish you if you dare to have a mind of your own and ask questions. BTW, you say that one group saves lives while the other kills for it's beliefs? Tell that to all of those christians who murder abortion doctors and plant bombs at concerts of bands like Deicide, Morbid Angel, and Marilyn Manson. Not all Muslims are fanatics, but not all Christians are lovey-dovey, either. Anyone who says otherwise is conflicted and/or ignorant to the obvious.
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Fair enough.
I just don't see a complete and literal comparison between a "Jesus Camp" and a terrorist-training camp as the same. But you're right, there are certainly degrees of comparison.
Impediment, I respect your opinions and beliefs.
I do know what southern baptist and pentecostal churches are like, and I think it sucks balls that they treated you that way.
Had they been following the "word" they were preaching, they might have pulled their heads out of their asses long enough to see that acceptance and love, not hate and condemnation of people, is what Jesus was all about.
However, your comparison is still bunk.
The filmmakers (two liberal women, by the way) estimate that there are some 100 million evangelical Christians in America, with 30 million claiming to be Pentecostal. (those in the film are pentecostal, I believe)
Now how many people have actually bombed abortion clinics, killed abortionists or gay marriage officials, or bombed Marilyn Manson concerts?
5 or 6?
100?
Lets say 1,000. One thousand actual cases of either bombing, attempted bombing, murder, or attempted murder committed against the groups you mentioned by christians.
In the last 5 years, if you could prove that there were 1,000 such cases in America, you'd still only be talking about 1/100,000th of the Christians in America.
I doubt your numbers would be so kind for radical Islamics.
If you take both extremes, both groups of radicals, most radical christians want abortion totally and completely outlawed, along with gay marriage, and the end of separation of church and state, evolution not taught in schools, and Christianity as the recognized religion in the U.S.
Radical Muslims want to kill every man, woman, and child that will not convert to Islam. By bomb, by bullet, or by knife to the throat if necessary. They have said so, publicly.
When you look at both groups, and the worst possible outcome, and you look at what percentage of radical christians actually kill people.....
it is foolishness to compare a camp like the one in this film to a terrorist training camp.
Maybe you ought to check the official site out, which has many reviews, mostly by liberal groups, that describe the joy and happiness on the children's faces as they feel God in their hearts.
Oh, and while ideas can be force-fed and doctrines taught, you can't "brainwash" anybody, man or woman, boy or girl, into an encounter with God, having the Holy Spirit come upon them while they sing worship songs, and cause them to speak in tongues.
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Don't even get into the whole "speaking in tounges" thing, its bullshit and been proven.
And I'll bet the numbers ARE so kind for muslims.
Every religion has its militant extremists. Christianity has a very long history of killing in the name of god. Probably worse than any other.
That is unless you belive the Old Testament then its probably Judiasm.
You just said it yourself: "Most radical Christians want abortion totally and completely outlawed, along with gay marriage, and the end of separation of church and state, evolution not taught in schools, and Christianity as the recognized religion in the U.S." What's the major difference with what Muslims want to do? If that isn't some sort of Nazi-ish wet Christian dream for America, then I'd like to know what is. Personally, I'd rather have my throat slit open and my tongue pulled out through the wound than have my freedoms and human rights taken away by religious zealots. And if those kind of Christians did have their way with America, I'd probably be mobbed and hanged because I believe in abortion, separation of church and state, evolution taught in schools, and even though I am not homosexual I support gay marriages.
It doesnt matter if it was just ONE who did the act. The fact would be that just one radical Christian acted out of radical belief and hurt/murdered an innocent human being. The same for Muslim fanatics, too. If a Christian kills even one person, beit for his extreme dedication to his faith, he is a walking contradiction and a big, fat hippocrite. Christianity is thriving with hippocrites, as is the Bible is with hypocrisy.
I believe that anyone can be brainwashed into anything. I have seen mothers and fathers "force" their children to cry out to Jesus and make them speak in tongues at sunday worship services, otherwise they'd be "the unbelievers". I have seen it with my own two eyes. My original point I was trying to make is: Jesus Camp wont make terrorists out of these little Christian boys & girls, however it is very comparable to the way future terrorists are brought up because they are being taught these things as a very way of life that is the right way of life and any other way of life is wrong and will shame/damn you and your entire family.
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Last edited by Impediment on Sep 19th, 2006 at 09:23 PM
Gender: Male Location: Impacting nations and generations
Except for people like me (and millions others) who have the gift and use it to God's glory.
For somebody who doesn't do it, to tell somebody who does, that it's "bullshit", no.... "proven bullshit" and doesn't list any credible sources is a pretty ball-sy thing.
I know in my heart that I'm filled with the Holy Spirit when I do it, and have nothing to prove to you, but find you funny that you are so adamantly opposed to something that you probably have little to no personal experience with.
Rest assured, I'm not "bullshitting" anybody when I speak in tongues, especially since its only me and my God around when I do it.
Well, I can understand that opinion, and you're welcome to it.
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
That's very true.
Does it pale in comparison to the many more Islamics who plot the death of thousands of people at a time?
Impediment and I respect each other beleifs whole heartedly. He being an atheist and I being Christian, raised in Pentecostal beleifs. However I, unlike some christians these days, am open minded to others beleifs and what they think. I seriously beleive that Pentecostals have serious problems. The church I went to with my parents said; Girls could not wear pants or shorts, we couldnt cut or color our hair, we couldnt wear jewlery or have any peircings, we couldnt smoke or drink. Guys couldnt grow their hair out, they couldnt have facial hair and couldnt wear shorts...AND if we did we would go to hell. Now I would definitley call that a cult. Wouldnt you? I hate going to church because there's always some person there staring at you like your the devil himself and chastizing you. Any religion is gonna have someone like that. I dont consider myself to be "religious" I do however beleive in God and I always will.
This movie, on the other hand, looks like the church camp I went to when I was younger. It looks like a cult to me, honestly. I really don't have any intrest whatsoever in seeing it.
Saw it today, and it was very good. Extremely interesting and fascinated, but also very chilling and sad, the brainwashing that occurs during the film is tragic. Though the film is extremely fair and never seems to demonize the camp, the people running it do that themselves.
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Sep 11th, 2006 07:40 AM
