Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Singapore Star System
"There is still good in him..."
Padme's last words of "there is still good in him" echoes Luke Skywalker's insistance that there IS still good in Darth Vader. Obi-Wan as a ghost jedi do not agree with this, saying that "he is more machine than man".
For sure GL wanted to make the connection between padme and her son luke thru those last words that we are all familiar with.Though it is funny how he has "no memory" of his mother while leia has some, but she does not go around babbling 'there is still good in vader..'.
So the question is, how exactly did they know there were still some good in him..there's no prove whatsoever in the movies to show that vader or anakin has the slightest bit of compassion left after turning to the dark side.
Pls don't tell me its all about them having the feeling thing..I personally feel it is just denial on both padme and luke' side..they just wanted to believe he was not THAT evil, by maintaining there's still good in him.
Notably,Vader's last words in episode VI was that..
"You were right about me..tell your sister..you were right."
Luke says this to vader before the latter turn him to the Emperor:
"I know there is good in you,the Emperor has not driven it out from you fully.That was why you couldn't destroy me.That's why you wouldn't bring me to the Emperor now."
After that evidently vader changed the subject, by saying..
"I see you've constructed the new lightsaber.."
So is this proof to show that what luke claimed might be true? Can you guys show me any instances after Anakin embraces Sidious as his master in EpIII as an argument to show "there is still good in him"?
__________________
"I still find your lack of Faith disturbing..."
Last edited by Cybervader on Jun 14th, 2005 at 02:38 PM
your quote answers your question. it was vader's compassion that kept him from killing his son, and which kept him from finishing off padme (although he did mistakenly anyway) if he could kill children and be warped into believing complete lies, (example would be him believing palps when he says the jedi will murder all the senators) then what would stop him from killing her? nothing but a shadow of anakin which still dwelled in him. even obiwan sensed it as he tried to reason with him the whole time. notice he didnt put the same faith in dooku, his master's master.
padme knew as luke did, that to turn to the darkside is to lose all compassion and remorse. however cruel vader was, he showed mercy...which is not at all the act of a sith. that is how they knew. who told them? remember that padme was married to a jedi, and good friends with kenobi, and also that luke was educated by ben and yoda. i'm sure at some point padme asked them "so...whats the deal with this 'sith' that keeps trying to kill me?"
I say there is no good in him. How low must one sink to kill younglings? To choose one over many? It's more attachment than compassion, and attachment is strictly forbidden by the Jedi. Compassion, though, is not. If he had any slight compassion for Padme, he would have questioned himself instead of blindingly walking the path of which few ever came back. All he had for Padme was attachment, he wanted her for himself. It was selfish of him to believe he could ever keep her alive forever. Your honor, Members of the Jury, I rest my case.
__________________
HEIL BARON VON RICHTHOFEN! HEIL THE LUFTWAFFE!
well, i wont argue that anakin/vader did horrible things, but a true sith's evil is absolute. a true sith has compassion for nothing and nobody, and is only attached to one thing: POWER.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Singapore Star System
Hmm.. i see..there's still good in vader because he still feels for his son,though outwardly he wanted to turn him to the dark side as commanded by his master.
So if a true sith's evil is absolute..is darth vader then not a true sith?..nor is he a true jedi? He seems to be neither here nor there, doesn't he?!..Being a jedi,he wants more power.Being a Sith,he cares for his son..
__________________
"I still find your lack of Faith disturbing..."
i believe that anakin was never truly a jedi.
he wore the uniform, paid his dues in the war,
and had the potential to be the greatest and most
powerful jedi, but never really accepted their way of life,
rather he lived it based on obligation.
then he becomes a sith, and although he is horrible, he
always has a soft spot for family, and that alone imho
is why that good always remains within him, and why he
is never truly a sith.
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Co-Admin
Actually, I don't think for a moment that Vader didn't kill Luke because of compassion in him, as Luke supposed- and indeed, in that scene, Vader turns Luke over, which makes even Luke think he was wrong.
Vader's flicker of compassion does not come until he sees Luke in pain just as the Emperor was when Anakin turned evil. Only that put it all in perspective for him.
That doesn't undo the evil he has done, it just means he does do at least one right thing when he dies.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
i disagree that vader only had compassion at that last moment.
i see it more like this: vader did the right thing for the wrong reason.
his compassion for luke was shrouded by his want to use his son to overthrow the emporer. in the end though, there was no way for the evil in vader to remain, since he had everything to loose but one thing: his son. through his self sacrifice, all the evil in him is dead, vader is dead, and so his compassion is fully realised. but it was there all along..more or less a blip on the radar.
remember this:
vader:my son is with them
palp:are you sure?
vader:i felt him
palp: strange that i have not...i wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear lord vader?
at that moment, i think its clear that luke and vader shared a connection far removed from the darkside. i think it implies that vader sensed luke through his compassion for him, rather than his desire to incorporate him into his plot.
I think anakin was a Jedi, but thatlike Yoda and everyone else said he was to old to start training..... his mind and heart had seen to much, and felt too much.. as far as vader.. i think just as luke felt that vader did still have the good side in him.. even in the new movies with vaders rampage on the mustafar system and before he goes to help the empoere he is crying.. he new what he was doing was wrong.. and in rotj.. i think it helped show him he was wrong all along about the emporer when the emporer told luke to finish vader.. even after vader just fought for him.. anakin was still in there somewhere..
I agree with Miss Skywalker there, anakin just wanted to save padme, but in his rush he didnt realise what he was doing was wrong. he realised that he turned to the dark side, but he didnt realise that it might of been because he turned to the dark side that Padme might die.
__________________ How about I cut your head off? Will you disagree then?
Jun 14th, 2005 02:35 PM
