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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode I, II & III » Was Vader lying when he said he'd kill Luke if he didn't join?


Was Vader lying when he said he'd kill Luke if he didn't join?
Started by: C-3POTheClever

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C-3POTheClever
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: In a galaxy far far away!


 

Was Vader lying when he said he'd kill Luke if he didn't join?

????

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 10:39 PM
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warhammer71
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Registered: Nov 2011
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i certainly think he was not. you could see it in his actions by tossing the emporer down the shaft.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 10:47 PM
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queeq
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Conflicting emotions... that's what all that is about.


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2011 07:52 AM
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roughrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Conflicting emotions... that's what all that is about.


Yes. Despite what he told the Emperor, Vader's feelings 'were not clear.'


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2011 04:12 PM
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the ninjak
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Registered: Jan 2010
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At the time he wasn't. He was a pure instrument of the Dark Side.

But I'm sure the option to attempt to turn him was there.

His change in character in the finale was the overwhelming realisation that the whole reason he joined the Dark Side was to save his child, that and the moment the Emperor was electrocuting Luke was the same as the situation when he made the choice between killing Mace Windu and the Emperor......

and decided that this was his last chance to tip the scales in the Force once again. The Dark side had reached its limits, it was time for change at the cost of one death and his own sacrifice.


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2011 06:22 PM
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queeq
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Except this scene we always GOT... even without that terrible NOOOOO... I still don't get the fall to the darkside scene.


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2011 07:16 PM
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Phoenix2001
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
I still don't get the fall to the darkside scene.


Why not? He just aided in killing one of the most respectable Jedi next to Yoda, really wasn't in much of a position to resist Sidious, and, most of all, believed the only person he truly loved would die if he couldn't find some way to prevent it.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2012 05:34 PM
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queeq
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Yes, that is the paper version.

On screen I see a guy angry with Palpy because he is a Sith Lord (the one they have been looking for for years), wants to kill him but because that is against Jedi Code he goes in to report him. He wants to come along so he can help kill/capture Palpy but he is not allowed. He follows the Jedi party anyway, cuts off Mace's hands (where did the Jedi Code go all of a sudden?), screams "What have I done?" and then submits to Palpy's teachings.... And then.... THEN.... here's the clincher, Palpy says he doesn't know how to keep people from dying.... Anakin goes: uh okay, I'll kill some younglings then... WTF?!!

You can twist and turn this scene whichever way you want but nowhere do I see what you just described. Nowhere.... the transition is rushed, inconsistent and far faaaaaar from credible.


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Old Post Feb 6th, 2012 07:48 AM
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Phoenix2001
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What other choice does Anakin have? He could go against Palpy then and probably get his ass handed to him, and die, but that's simply not an option to him. If Anakin gets killed in a move against Palpy, then, in his mind, who's to save Padme? There's no telling what is going through Anakin's mind when Palpy admits the truth of not having the ability to save people from death. At that point, Anakin was probably willing to take anything, and then shows he's willing to do anything, to prevent Padme from dieing.


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Old Post Feb 8th, 2012 01:19 AM
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C-3POTheClever
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Yes, that is the paper version.

On screen I see a guy angry with Palpy because he is a Sith Lord (the one they have been looking for for years), wants to kill him but because that is against Jedi Code he goes in to report him. He wants to come along so he can help kill/capture Palpy but he is not allowed. He follows the Jedi party anyway, cuts off Mace's hands (where did the Jedi Code go all of a sudden?), screams "What have I done?" and then submits to Palpy's teachings.... And then.... THEN.... here's the clincher, Palpy says he doesn't know how to keep people from dying.... Anakin goes: uh okay, I'll kill some younglings then... WTF?!!

You can twist and turn this scene whichever way you want but nowhere do I see what you just described. Nowhere.... the transition is rushed, inconsistent and far faaaaaar from credible.

I always thought it wasn't the Jedi Code that stopped him from killing Palps. I thought it was that Palps was his only way to save Padme, but I understand that, that doesn't explain why he reported him to the council messed. But about when it came to telling the council, I thought he just wanted to go with them , bujt really wasn't sure weather he'd help him arrest Palps or save Palps. I understand where your coming from completely, but I had never thought of that before.

Old Post Feb 8th, 2012 02:09 PM
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queeq
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Palps was unarmed... Anakin was armed, ergo Jedi Code forbids him from killing palps. Padme may have played part in it.
It's also not clear why he didn't take Palps in himself.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
What other choice does Anakin have? He could go against Palpy then and probably get his ass handed to him, and die, but that's simply not an option to him. If Anakin gets killed in a move against Palpy, then, in his mind, who's to save Padme? There's no telling what is going through Anakin's mind when Palpy admits the truth of not having the ability to save people from death. At that point, Anakin was probably willing to take anything, and then shows he's willing to do anything, to prevent Padme from dieing.


Again.... that's the paper version. On screen it doesn't work at all. He went in to report Palpy, didn't he? That wouldn't have helped in saving Padme...

It's all pretty contradictory. Now, if Anakin was an interestingly complex character it'd might have worked. But all we know about Anakin is that he is a grumpy, arrogant brat that want to get everything he wants and kill sentient beings if he' angry with them. Or even when he's not angry (see: Younglings). It all doesn't make any sense at all.


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Old Post Feb 8th, 2012 03:05 PM
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Phoenix2001
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Again.... that's the paper version. On screen it doesn't work at all. He went in to report Palpy, didn't he? That wouldn't have helped in saving Padme...

It's all pretty contradictory. Now, if Anakin was an interestingly complex character it'd might have worked. But all we know about Anakin is that he is a grumpy, arrogant brat that want to get everything he wants and kill sentient beings if he' angry with them. Or even when he's not angry (see: Younglings). It all doesn't make any sense at all.


Your right, I suppose. Personally, I feel that it was played out the way it was on paper. I guess I'm one of the few that isn't particularly bothered by it. I can't say I'm really impressed with Anakin's character, but it is refreshingly realistic. His relationship with Obi-wan as a Padawan is something we see all the time between parents and their teenagers. Idk. I don't really have much of a problem with the PT that most others do, probably because I was spared of the hype, and I was fairly young when they were released. That's not to say I don't like the OT. I love them both.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2012 01:50 PM
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C-3POTheClever
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Your right, I suppose. Personally, I feel that it was played out the way it was on paper. I guess I'm one of the few that isn't particularly bothered by it. I can't say I'm really impressed with Anakin's character, but it is refreshingly realistic. His relationship with Obi-wan as a Padawan is something we see all the time between parents and their teenagers. Idk. I don't really have much of a problem with the PT that most others do, probably because I was spared of the hype, and I was fairly young when they were released. That's not to say I don't like the OT. I love them both.

I'd say I have the same feelings towards them a you.

Old Post Feb 13th, 2012 02:08 PM
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queeq
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It's not so much the hype. My problem with Anakin is that I cannot muster ANY sympathy for this guy. I don't understand how Lucas is trying to convey how 'the good man that was your father' changed into the 'more machine than man' Darth Vader with this Anakin and this trilogy...

From the moment Anakin is an adult he is a grumpy, whiny, arrogant brat that didn't overcome typical puberescent behaviour (one might expect to overcome after years of Jedi training) and is totally self centered. Of course that is Darth Vader, that is not someone he BECOMES... it's someone he already beacme between TPM and AOTC. Just without the suit...

So Anakin to me is no hero, he is a shallow character, there seems to be no motive for him to hate everyone (except being an adolescent for ever, never growing to adulthood), he just does. He dislikes everyone who disagrees with him, even the woman he says he loves and wants to create an Empire for. That makes the PT weird. The OT shows Luke's development from boyhood to growing up (ESB) to adulthood (ROTJ), we see him change his way of life, a change in choices.
In Anakin we see nothing like that: we see a cutish kid (Iguess) and then a grumpy sh!t who after a while goes out to kill younglings... well... hmmm...


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2012 08:41 PM
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seanbella
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Smile

I really really love these STAR WARS. Is there a remake of episodes IV V VI???

Old Post Feb 15th, 2012 09:30 AM
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queeq
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I certainly hope not.


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Old Post Feb 15th, 2012 12:52 PM
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C-3POTheClever
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by seanbella
I really really love these STAR WARS. Is there a remake of episodes IV V VI???

No. At least not @ the moment.

Old Post Feb 16th, 2012 11:51 PM
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queeq
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It would be interesting to see a complete reboot in ten years or so. But frankly I doubt that it will have a lot of chance of making an impact. I does kinda rank up there with the greats of movie history that have never been succesfully remade: Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, Ben Hur... Star Wars,


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Old Post Feb 17th, 2012 08:47 AM
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