KMC Forums

 
  REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Already a member? Log-in!
 
 
Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode I, II & III » Vader's Redemption in ROTS (had he became emperor)


Vader's Redemption in ROTS (had he became emperor)
Started by: PhoenixSam5

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
PhoenixSam5
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: United States


 

Vader's Redemption in ROTS (had he became emperor)

If Anakin won the duel with Obi Wan, and then he killed the Emperor (without the suit he was much more powerful and also he could avoid force lightning), and Anakin became the Emperor himself, how could he have fullfilled the prophecy of the Chosen One and be redeemed, and bring balance to the Force?

Anakin's destiny was to bring balance to the Force. This situation makes it a LOT harder.

The Emperor trying to kill Luke because of Luke's refusal to turn to the darkside, was a catalyst for Anakin to be redeemed and be the Chosen One. The emperor had vader's family in danger, which allowed for the prophecy to be fullfilled and for anakin to turn good again.

Anakin killing the Emperor a little while after ROTS doesn't solve the problem, because you already have a Sith Lord-Anakin, around.

With Obi wan dead, and presumably Padme still dying, as well as a dead Emperor, only Yoda was left to confront Vader and try to save the twins from being raised as Siths. Remember, in the original trilogy, Obi Wan and Yoda expected Luke to be the Chosen One, as anakin was evil by that point.

Even if Yoda could rescue either Luke, Leia, or even both of them, how could they have redeemed their father, or possibly their evil sibling if Anakin took the other twin?

Maybe if Yoda took one twin and Vader took the other one, Emperor Vader would force lightning the good sibling and the evil sibling turns against their father to save their sibling, mirroring ROTJ. But if that was true, Anakin wouldn't be the Chosen One, because either Luke or Leia kills Anakin to save their Jedi sibling from him.

This situation becomes even more trickier if Anakin raised both Luke and Leia as Sith, redeeming him and making the prophecy happen.

Assuming Anakin was predestined to be the Chosen One, how would he have brought balance if he became the Emperor following ROTS?

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 07:21 PM
Click here to Send PhoenixSam5 a Private Message Find more posts by PhoenixSam5 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
...

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Ireland.

Moderator


 

He wouldn't have. So at least, from the perspective of the force, everything turned out all right.


__________________

.

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 07:23 PM
Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
PhoenixSam5
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
He wouldn't have. So at least, from the perspective of the force, everything turned out all right.


No. It was his destiny. With will there's a way.

Even if Anakin became the Emperor, I believe the Force still would have found a way to redeem him and fullfill the prophecy.

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 07:32 PM
Click here to Send PhoenixSam5 a Private Message Find more posts by PhoenixSam5 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
...

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Ireland.

Moderator


 

sure, in theory.

it might have; nobody knows. I don't think it would have. it would have been much harder, though, with no obi-wan. The force might have found balance again, it just wouldn't have been through Anakin.


__________________

.

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 08:07 PM
Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
PhoenixSam5
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
sure, in theory.

it might have; nobody knows. I don't think it would have. it would have been much harder, though, with no obi-wan. The force might have found balance again, it just wouldn't have been through Anakin.


If not Anakin, one of the twins would have.

But I think even Emperor Vader could have brought balance somehow.

What are some ways for Emperor Vader to fullfill the prophecy and be redeemed?

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 08:10 PM
Click here to Send PhoenixSam5 a Private Message Find more posts by PhoenixSam5 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
...

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Ireland.

Moderator


 

No idea, tbh, unless we're going to suppose that when he killed the Emperor, he brought balance at that point.


__________________

.

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 08:11 PM
Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
PhoenixSam5
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
No idea, tbh, unless we're going to suppose that when he killed the Emperor, he brought balance at that point.


Regardless of the method that he's redeemed (when other users get online and post here, they can add more to our discussion), i think that even if anakin became emperor, he was predestined for redemption, or at least fullfilling the prophecy, at some point in time.

Agree that Anakin was predestined to be the Chosen One?

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 08:19 PM
Click here to Send PhoenixSam5 a Private Message Find more posts by PhoenixSam5 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
...

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Ireland.

Moderator


 

Of course he was. Maybe the force would have found a way; I don't know.


__________________

.

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 08:24 PM
Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Co-Admin


 

Don;t remove the whole agency of the heroes in the saga by saying victory was inevitable- that's completely ridiculous. Also only Anakin could do it, no-one else.

Prs original answer has it- he wouldn't have done.


__________________



"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 10:30 PM
Click here to Send Ushgarak a Private Message Find more posts by Ushgarak Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
PhoenixSam5
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Don;t remove the whole agency of the heroes in the saga by saying victory was inevitable- that's completely ridiculous. Also only Anakin could do it, no-one else.

Prs original answer has it- he wouldn't have done.


Luke could have killed the Emperor, as another thread states.

But it's possible that somebody else could have been the Chosen One-most likely Luke Skywalker or Leia.

But even then, I think it's still possible that Anakin was predestined to be the Chosen One. Vader talks to Luke about destiny on cloud city, and sidious talks about destiny to luke on the DS2. In the Prequels, destiny was brought up with qui gon and shmi skywalker.

"nothing is an accident", and "he can help you, he was meant to help you".

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 10:44 PM
Click here to Send PhoenixSam5 a Private Message Find more posts by PhoenixSam5 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
...

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Ireland.

Moderator


 

I'm pretty sure Lucas made it clear that Anakin is the chosen one.


__________________

.

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 10:50 PM
Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Co-Admin


 

Indeed. Anakn was the Chosen One, and only he could kill Sidious. That's the whole point.

Again, if you claim it was all inevitable regardless, you destroy the entire story. It's completely silly.


__________________



"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 11:00 PM
Click here to Send Ushgarak a Private Message Find more posts by Ushgarak Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
PhoenixSam5
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm pretty sure Lucas made it clear that Anakin is the chosen one.


Which proves my arguement that even if Anakin became Emperor, he still would have brought balance!

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 11:01 PM
Click here to Send PhoenixSam5 a Private Message Find more posts by PhoenixSam5 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
...

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Ireland.

Moderator


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Which proves my arguement that even if Anakin became Emperor, he still would have brought balance!


Only through redemption and being "good" could he bring balance. Being evil and killing the emperor isn't the same thing.


__________________

.

Old Post Mar 15th, 2013 11:10 PM
Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
focus4chumps
Restricted

Registered: Oct 2008
Location:

Account Restricted


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Which proves my arguement that even if Anakin became Emperor, he still would have brought balance!


ANAKIN was the chosen one. not darth vader.


__________________
"Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage."

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=denton+van+zan+vs

Old Post Mar 16th, 2013 02:07 AM
Click here to Send focus4chumps a Private Message Find more posts by focus4chumps Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ROTJ Vader
Restricted

Registered: Sep 2012
Location:

Account Restricted


 

If Anakin had killed Kenobi and somehow killed Sidious he would have become Emperor. And ruled the galaxy with fear and evil.

Old Post Mar 29th, 2013 05:25 AM
Click here to Send ROTJ Vader a Private Message Find more posts by ROTJ Vader Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lord Lucien
Lets all love Lain

Registered: Jul 2005
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
If Anakin had killed Kenobi and somehow killed Sidious he would have become Emperor. And ruled the galaxy with fear and evil.
Yeah, we got that. Thank you.


__________________
Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.

Old Post Mar 29th, 2013 07:57 AM
Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
PhoenixSam5
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Indeed. Anakn was the Chosen One, and only he could kill Sidious. That's the whole point.

Again, if you claim it was all inevitable regardless, you destroy the entire story. It's completely silly.


I agree. Anakin wasn't predestined to bring balance; he had the choice to destroy the Sith or not. It would totally ruin the story if predestination was true.

" In working with the Force, you can find your destiny and you can choose to either follow it, or not." -George Lucas

However, here's what I hate about the prophecy. It's the idea that only Anakin could defeat the Sith. I love the idea that Luke or Leia could have fulfilled the Chosen One role by killing Vader and Palpatine. I like the idea that the Force created Anakin as a person with a very high Force potential to defeat the Sith, not that he was the "only one" who could do it.

Luke and Leia could have potentially been as powerful as Anakin, who is the Chosen One.

Last edited by PhoenixSam5 on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 01:50 AM

Old Post Apr 2nd, 2013 01:48 AM
Click here to Send PhoenixSam5 a Private Message Find more posts by PhoenixSam5 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
KingD19
Shai-Gen's Enigmatic Wong

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Land of the Lost


 

EU makes it weird though, as Luke kills Sidious at least 2-3 times.

Old Post Apr 2nd, 2013 03:00 AM
Click here to Send KingD19 a Private Message Find more posts by KingD19 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
PhoenixSam5
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by KingD19
EU makes it weird though, as Luke kills Sidious at least 2-3 times.


This isn't the EU subforum, but thanks for the info! I'm going to create an EU thread about Luke VS Sidious in a straight up fight.

The only thing I'm going to say here is that Luke was much more powerful in the post ROTJ storylines.

I like the idea that Anakin wasn't the only Jedi who could defeat Sidious. That's why the "chosen one" storyline was lame, IMO.

Old Post Apr 4th, 2013 10:10 PM
Click here to Send PhoenixSam5 a Private Message Find more posts by PhoenixSam5 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 07:56 AM.
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< Contact Us - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Forum powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.