I've just flicked through the threads, and seen some attention to the mystery of who deleted the record of the Komina system from the archive (presumably a Jedi, according to what is said). I haven't seen any attention to who actually made the order to build the clone army. (If I am missing something unbelievably obvious, please point this out, )
I tend to agree with the "Anakin, manipulated by Palpatine" theory, but my problem with this is that someone must have made the order to the Kominans (?) to clone Jango Fett and construct a large army. This would have involved visiting Komina itself (since the receptionist says the word "return" when Obi-Wan visits) and presumably paid them a lot of dosh. ("big pocketbook" reference).
So who did this?
1, Anakin would have been far too young to do this, and even if you surmise that he could have got away from Obi-Wan long enough to delete the library record, I severely doubt he could have gone to a planet beyond the outer rim / 12 parsecs away.
2, Obi-Wan says that the Jedi the Kominan PM refers to (Sayfa Diaz?) died before the order was made. So it is obviously someone posing as this character.
3, I think it would have to be a Jedi. The Kominans appear to recognise Obi-Wan instantly as a Jedi, and someone who needs to be informed of the progress of the order made 10 years ago.
This leads me to one of three conclusions about who would have done this. Either:
a) the order was made by a "good" Jedi like Mace Windu, anticipating the problems seen in Episode 2 (ie, democracy breaking down, enemies gathering and so on). I don't think this is likely, given the "good" Jedis genuine surprise at this development. They also seem to have a lack of foresight, which rules out this possibility in my mind at least.
b) the order was made by a "good" Jedi, but manipulated by Palpatine. This seems a bit lame, but it kinda fits with the conspiracy theory that he is pulling all the strings, creating a situation where he is dictator of the republic (and potentially of all planets, if the republic defeats the separatists).
c) the order was made by an "evil" Jedi, such as Count Dooku. This seems a bit dumb, given that this army is eventually used against Dooku in the initial stage of the clone wars. But it could be another use of the concept where someone leaves a tool for an enemy to use, but it eventually works against that enemy because it draws them into a trap (like Solo using Cloud City in Episode V).
The "trap" in this case is essentially that providing this army invites the republic to give emergency powers to Palpatine, since they couldn't pass a vote to create an army.
I also think that the order may have been made by Dooku, given that the template for the clones is Jango Fett.
My overall conclusion is that the order was made by Dooku. I think that the records were then deleted by Anakin (persuaded by Palpatine) as a (deliberately?) clumsy attempt to cover Dooku's tracks. Possibly the assassination attempts on Amidala were designed to reveal the existence of the clone army. (hidden meaning) For this all to happen, presumably there has to be some unknown communication between Dooku and Palpatine.
Or perhaps I have an over-developed conspiratorial imagination?
indeed, was a jedi
"Sifo Dias is still a leading member of the Jedi Council, is he not?"
your point a isn't correct
"Did he ever got the authorisation to create this clone army?"
-"No, whoever did that, did not had the authorisation of the council."
Yoda doesn't react, so Mace should be cleared
b could be correct, but then it has to be Dooku, no?
see, Dooku left the order after TPM, and at that time Kamino got erased I guess, and the order was placed.
The assasination on Padme was not a hidden hint, it was something Nute Gunray insisted before signing the treaty
(don't know the exact quote though)
Registered: Mar 2003
Location: Connersville, Indiana
I thought it was Qui Gon cause the tall dude on Kamino said masters sifo dias's clones are ready, and Obi Wan told him that master sifo dias was killed almost ten years ago. And Qui Gon was killed ten years ago.
There have been some discussions about QGJ being the one who placed the order for the clone army but that would suggest he used an alias when he did so. My central problem with this is why would a revered and well known Jedi Master like QGJ use another name to place such an order? Is this another attempt to show how unorthodox he really was by going behind the Council's backs?
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Co-Admin
The Qui-Gon idea is nonsense, always has been. Why would Obi-Wan have called him Sifo-Dyas? Yes, you can make up an extended rationale to explain that but that is just silly. The 'ten years ago' reference is simply because Palpatine started his new plan after the events of TPM. To say QGJ and Sifo-Dyas are the same person due to the proximity of their deaths is INTENSLY tenuous.
As I seem to keep saying lately, the most likely answer is still either Dooku or Palpatine, using te name of a recently deceased Jedi Master to cover it.
Incidentally, regardless of who Sifo-Dyas is, as Dooku provided the template for the army (another reason QGJ could not have done it because Dooku would not have been involved in this plan until after Maul, and so QGJ, died and without the template there WAS no order for Sifo-Dyas to place) then the point that he helped create an army that was used 'against' him is a thing to automatically think, not a dumb idea. Dooku planned it that way from the start.
However, Anakin deleteing the Kamino records is also incredibly unlikely. They were most likely deleted when the clone order was made; Anakin was too young to be dong things like that. Even if it was done around the time of the film it is still too early for Anakin to be doing dodgy things like that. As yerssot says, the culprit is far more likely to be Dooku. We know he is involed with the army's creation, so why not him?
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Last edited by Ushgarak on May 24th, 2003 at 10:35 AM
I read sumwhere cant remember where, that it was Palpatine poseing as Sifo-Dyas!
__________________ I: Ugh. What about whats his name
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Yes I believe Ush(and others no doubt) have suggested Palpatine may have impersonated this dead Jedi Master. We know he existed because of Yoda and Windu's reaction at the name in Clones. So he was once known to both the heads of the Council. Palpatine(Or Dookue for that matter) probably used that name when they made the order for the clone army from the cloners on Kamino.
i'd have to say dooku or palpatine. after all they both have aliases, so it seems feasable that they would put the order of a clone army under syfo dyas.
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Jango Fett obviosly knew both identeties of Dooku as he replies to Obi Wan that he was recruted by Lord Tyranus on the moons of Bogden.
I think it is Palpatine who ordered the construction of the Clones, after all Plapatine/Sideous have done is to try distabilize the entire Galactical Republic
Dooku play the fool in front of his allies after all he is suppose to be on their side. Fact is that together with his master they form the third party here, their plan was to throw the Republic into a war by aiding/tricking both sides( Republic & Seperatists) to reach their real purpose:the coup of the Galactic Republic for the purpose of transforming it into an empire
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May 22nd, 2003 03:54 PM
