 |
priestjim
Grovda
 Gender: Male
Location: Athens,Greece |
Philosophy thread (after Revolutions)
I suppose that the war between the machines and the humans is paused or ended. On either cases how would you feel if the whole world was taken over by machines and even though you are supposedly free you know that there is a whole army of machines ready to take your head of with no moral guilt? Or knowing that if you have a conflict with a machine that could mean the start of another war. Or do you believe that we, humans could keep such a peace for a long time? Or, after we heal our wounds we will try to reclaim the world?
Just thoughts for debate 
__________________
|
Nov 6th, 2003 10:35 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Furiae
Junior Member
 Gender: Male
Location: United States |
Being that the back story indicates that we were the ones that started the war I have no problem the the "no moral guilt" on the machines part, we are at war. Again one we started.
I believe that the last conversation the Oracle and Architect have are to infer, IMO, that man will not let the peace exist AS the Architect first created a "perfect" Matrix which we rejected and it was not until they created a flwaed one (famine, disease, death, etc) that we stabilized (save .1% of us) who I believe are also the ones that the Architect is inferring will be freed....that .1% that reject the Matrix.
I believe MANY people would not want out and would think like Cypher did. Trade that world they had for a cold war filled, porridge eating, no sky world...I don't give humans that much credit either....MOST (IMO) would choose to stay.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths
we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
George Carlin
Seán is ainm dom = My name is Seán
|
|
Nov 6th, 2003 10:40 PM |
|
|
| |
|
priestjim
Grovda
Gender: Male
Location: Athens,Greece |
Yes but what if humans and machines cooperate to rebuild the world. The sky, the earth, the air. All that!
__________________
|
|
Nov 6th, 2003 10:47 PM |
|
|
| |
|
priestjim
Grovda
Gender: Male
Location: Athens,Greece |
C'mon people I need some opinions here!
__________________
|
|
Nov 6th, 2003 11:11 PM |
|
|
| |
|
SG_Fox
Granda Kewl Master
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
No, Humans are to arrogant and "blind" to see that the robots just wanted to be treated as an equal. Personaly, the humans in the matrix movies got what they deserved, punishment for creating AI, then telling them that their going to be treated as slaves. I just don't agree with what the humans did, a mass slaughter of machines. Kinda makes ya' kinda wonder what would have happened of humans just decided to go with the flow of how things were, before the war. A peace talk could have stopped this whole mess.
__________________
If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college.
|
|
Nov 6th, 2003 11:21 PM |
|
|
| |
|
priestjim
Grovda
Gender: Male
Location: Athens,Greece |
Yes. If only they had heard the embassador from 01 (from Animatrix). But I believe they have learnt their lesson.
__________________
|
|
Nov 6th, 2003 11:24 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Verity
Senior Member
 Gender: Female
Location: United States |
Well I believe that is the question the Wachowski's in some way r asking us priest!...R we as humans capable of going on w'out war?? The "to be continued" is really up to us...
__________________
"all we have to do, is decide what to do with the time that is given to us..."-Gandalf.
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 12:30 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Ushgarak
Paladin
 Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Even if Second Renaissance- which I loathed- is to be believed, the Machines are just as bad, if not worse, than the humans and I feel very much on the side of the humans.
Only the most shallow of humans would take the Cipher choice- Human behaviour indicates most would chose to live in the real world
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 01:22 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Verity
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: United States |
Yes, but we as humans always presumptuous, always thinking the world is ours and only belongs to us! It was wrong to not allow the machines to have rights...It's the same as the great powers using slaves throughout the years, and robbing them of their rights! Haven't we seen history repeat itself so many times?? The question is, what do we do with that peace, now that we have it!?!?!?!
__________________
"all we have to do, is decide what to do with the time that is given to us..."-Gandalf.
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 01:35 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
None of that excuses what the machines did.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 01:42 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Verity
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: United States |
We as humans have done as much if not worse!...
__________________
"all we have to do, is decide what to do with the time that is given to us..."-Gandalf.
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 01:45 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Mind you, here is me babbling on about the 'real' when I know full well that much of what goes on inside the Matrix is VERY real, it is just not physical...
But there is nothing FOR the humans in the Matrix. It is not essential and as it is, by its very nature, limiting then I still think most humans would prefer the physical world where something of consequence can be achieved for the human race.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Nov 7th, 2003 at 01:50 AM
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 01:46 AM |
|
|
| |
|
The Omega
Z10N0101
 Gender: Female
Location: Denmark |
Do humans want to live in peace? Yes, urhm... who wouldn't want peace.
It can just not never be peace at ANY cost.
As my signature says "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit autrocities." That is a quote I've found to contain a great deal of truth.
So the real question is: What is control?
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 01:49 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Simple, restriction- to any extent- of someone's freedom via something acting with purpose.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 01:51 AM |
|
|
| |
|
The Omega
Z10N0101
Gender: Female
Location: Denmark |
Isn't it so, then, that he ultimate form of control is "restrictrion of someone's freedom..." without that someone knowing the restriction is there?
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 01:55 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
I wouldn't say it was the ultimate. I would say it was a very handy form of control though.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 01:58 AM |
|
|
| |
|
BIOS9
..............
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: Where the System Ends |
I believe deep down, we both want this world to change. I believe that the Matrix can remain our cage or it can become our chrysalis, that's what you helped me to understand. That to be free, truly free, you cannot change your cage. You have to change yourself. When I used to look out at this world, all I could see was its edges, its boundaries, its rules and controls, its leaders and laws. But now, I see another world. A different world where all things are possible. A world of hope. Of peace. I can't tell you how to get there, but I know if you can free our mind, you'll find the way...
__________________
Vote BIOS9 in 2004.
THIS TIME, he'll do better.
To forgive is divine, vote BIOS9 on 04!
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 02:23 AM |
|
|
| |
|
The Omega
Z10N0101
Gender: Female
Location: Denmark |
“Ultimate”, “Very handy”…
My point is this: There are a few things I do ponder on a regular basis. Such as the problem with establishing peace in the world, why some people claim all of mankind is corrupt and greedy, and so on and so forth.
I personally do not know anyone who’d thrive on war. I saw a documentary on the Iraq-war about the soldiers, and the reporter stated, that all the young men were nervous and worried (as they should be). The only ones who “loved this” were borderline psychopaths.
So why do they do it?
That some people can even say “people are corrupt and greedy” shows that we’re well aware there’s something wrong! We can define “this and that” as just – plain- wrong! If our natures were, truly, just corruption and greed, we’d not mention it, it would just be the way things were.
So how are we kept “oblivious” (to use a Smith-quote). Why do we accept it?
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 02:28 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Because most people are more inclined to care about their own problems than broader ones.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
|
|
Nov 7th, 2003 02:36 AM |
|
|
| |
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
Text-only version |
|
|
KMC Community Forums
