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VengeanceGOD
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: United States
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"If he could be turned, he would be a powerful ally."
I had a thought about this line the other day. Now, it's obvious that Vader is trying to spare his son's life here. However, I had another thought. See, knowing what we now know from the PT, there are only ever two Sith. Is it possible that Vader was offering his own life to the Emperor in exchange for his son's?
The more I think about it, the more it makes some sense. Even though Vader does offer Luke the chance to join him and destroy the Emperor, he's urging Luke to kill him throughout both of the duels. "Only your hatred can destroy me," for example.
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Jun 9th, 2004 11:33 PM |
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Kraken
Wraith
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Every Shadow
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luke would be a grate ally of coarse but he to much of a goody too shoes.
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Jun 9th, 2004 11:48 PM |
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Rogue Jedi
Restricted
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: On my way to the CageAccount Restricted
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*luke, together we can destroy the emperor." remember that? vader had his own agenda, which included bringing luke to the dark side, destroying palpy and taking his place.
__________________
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
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Jun 10th, 2004 12:41 AM |
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VengeanceGOD
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: United States
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Which I mentioned...but I really think Vader's backup plan was for him to be sacrificed in exchange for Luke.
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Jun 10th, 2004 01:38 AM |
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finti
Senior Member
Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
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actually by the time of ESB GL hadnt thought of the two sits only concept, so in my mind Vader wanted Luke to join them, maybe Vader had an agenda of his own but we really dont know that. The movies doesnt reveal this own agenda of Vader thing, doesnt matter whatever was written in the books
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Jun 10th, 2004 06:02 AM |
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VengeanceGOD
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: United States
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Yeah, I know what was written by Lucas at the time. I was thinking in terms of storyline only, knowing what we know NOW to be canon. So far, I haven't used a single thing that was written in the books, so please get off your canon high horse.
Obviously what Vader really wanted was for Luke to join him and destroy the Emperor. But if that failed, I'm pretty sure he was actually offering his own life in exchange. That's obviously how the emperor took it, as he tried to have them duel to the death on the Death Star.
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Jun 10th, 2004 11:42 PM |
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Xam
Lord Xam
Registered: Dec 2003
Location: In A Galaxy Far,Far Away...
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i say maybe both and who cares if "two siths"was created in 1999.i say go whit the story there is no doub in my mind that vader wanted luke to kill the emperor and vader proclaim himself emperor
__________________
"He was a pupil of mine,before he turned to evil..."
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Jun 11th, 2004 03:19 AM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Finti's point is of course correct. but GL's comment make it rather clear that retrospectively it is definite that Vader wanted to off the Emperor at that point also. Unfortunately, that ESB scene then makes awkward sense, because the two of them really wouldn;t have talked about it. Oh well.
So no, I do not think GL ever had a sacrifice in mind.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jun 11th, 2004 02:40 PM |
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VengeanceGOD
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: United States
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LOL, people are really and truly missing my point here. I'm not talking about GL's storyline. Of course his storyline was to have Vader off the Emperor and join with Luke. I'm just analyzing the actions of Vader as if he were a real person, NOT whether or not GL had thought of this. Haven't any of you ever done this with a fictional character before?
And, to be clear, it has been stated over and over by me that I was NOT saying that Vader DIDN'T want to kill the Emperor. I wish people had done more than skim my post. My point is, Vader knew that if he couldn't defeat the Emperor even with Luke's help, or if Luke refused, the only way for Luke to survive was for him to die. Hence, almost offering himself as a sacrifice.
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Jun 12th, 2004 07:55 AM |
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Xam
Lord Xam
Registered: Dec 2003
Location: In A Galaxy Far,Far Away...
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yeah thats kinda what i was thinking
__________________
"He was a pupil of mine,before he turned to evil..."
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Jun 12th, 2004 02:44 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Seems an abstracted way of thinking to me. I only see it worth imagining the actions of the characters the way they were intended.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jun 12th, 2004 03:20 PM |
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Xam
Lord Xam
Registered: Dec 2003
Location: In A Galaxy Far,Far Away...
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yeah but from a certain point of view....lol
__________________
"He was a pupil of mine,before he turned to evil..."
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Jun 12th, 2004 03:28 PM |
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VengeanceGOD
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: United States
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Then I feel really bad for you Ush...you're never going to find anything new in any movie you love if you're that obsessed with only concentrating on exactly what's said in the film.
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Jun 12th, 2004 06:49 PM |
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Rogue Jedi
Restricted
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: On my way to the CageAccount Restricted
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agreed.
__________________
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
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Jun 12th, 2004 08:43 PM |
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Xam
Lord Xam
Registered: Dec 2003
Location: In A Galaxy Far,Far Away...
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lol
__________________
"He was a pupil of mine,before he turned to evil..."
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Jun 12th, 2004 09:08 PM |
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Evolution
Restricted
Registered: May 2004
Location: Account Restricted
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but if luke joined vader that would go against the sith rule of 2.
thats why palpatine try making luke all angry so he could either destroy palpatine wich could make vader dark lord of the sith.
but instead it was vader vs luke.
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Jun 13th, 2004 12:10 AM |
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