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How much power do the Jedi really have?
Started by: Gryn Jabar

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Gryn Jabar
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How much power do the Jedi really have?

In the event of a civil war, could the jedi fight for the republic if the republic had no army? How powerful are they politically? Here's three scenarios illustrating this:
Note: Either pre Clone Wars (no standing army OR clone army)
1) The republic commits genocide on a planet, despite Jedi protests and threats. What happens?
2) The republic is invaded by some alien force.
3) Civil war erupts. The republic is completely unprepared for this, and has no army or mobilization set up.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 01:45 AM
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Lord Lucien
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1.) The Jedi take power of the Senate by force if necessary. (i.e. ROTS.)

2.) The Republic and the Jedi are royally screwed. (i.e. The Yuuzhan Vong invasion which cost over 350 trillion lives to a Republic WITH a large standing military and uper-Luke.)

3.) The Jedi are once again screwed since they are "keepers of the peace, not soldiers." Keepers of the peace with only 10 000 waning members facing an army of potential billions, maybe trillions if it's a droid army. Peace Keepers that will have no political power once the Factioners either obliterate the Coruscant and the Senate building, or capture Coruscant and the senate building. And why? Because 10 000 Jedi cannot hold out against half a galaxy of enemies.

Of course if the Jedi HAD control of a Clone Army, then #1 and #3 would be a success. #2 would be possible, depending on whether they have a large enough military. And as long as the invading enemies are the Ssi Ruuk, or the Yuuzhan Vong.


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Last edited by Lord Lucien on Nov 1st, 2005 at 01:53 AM

Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 01:50 AM
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Gryn Jabar
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tangible God
1.) The Jedi take power of the Senate by force if necessary. (i.e. ROTS.)

Then what? Does the rest of the galaxy just shrug and take it?


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 02:54 AM
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Lord Lucien
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Well, if noones there to label the Jedi as traitors like Palpatine did, then yes.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 03:02 AM
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REXXXX
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1 & 3) The Jedi would pretty much stay out of the way

2) The Jedi would do their best to protect the Republic


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Ushgarak
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Indeed. If the Jedi ever were to seize power, it would only be in a situation so utterly dire that the chances are they could get considerable political support for it.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 08:49 AM
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Fishy
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In Situation one the Jedi couldn't do anything except for threathen some more publicly withdraw support from the Chancellor and hope that they are popular enough to get support from the Senators... If they would be real tricky they would make up some enemy to attack the Republic in which case they would be needed and they can easily destroy the Senate. But I doubt the Jedi would do something like that.

2.) Without an army the alien force will have to be small. The Jedi would have to react at the start too and hope that there are enough people willing to fight and die for the republic. The Jedi will need them to destroy the aliens. Otherwise they are dead, and thats if they will attack.

3.) The Jedi are screwed as well as the Republic. A civil war can be many things but if there is no clear side to choose from the Jedi will just have to stay out of the way. If the Jedi are a target in this civil war then they are most likely dead from the start. Because very few would attack the Jedi unless they had the army to do so.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 09:54 AM
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Darth Orcus
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The Jedi never realised their full potential - their own restrictive dogma limited any possible influence they had over their own destiny.

No one dared to dick with the Empire when the Sith were in charge.

PS: Spare me the Luke Skywalker mentions - he did nothing to bring down the Sith. That came from within (Vader vs. Sidious).

Last edited by Darth Orcus on Nov 1st, 2005 at 01:45 PM

Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 01:41 PM
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overlord
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If the jedi ever had real power (political for example) they would probably easily be lured to the dark side. They'd probably get egocentrical.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 03:52 PM
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Ushgarak
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Just about EVERYONE dared to dick with the Empire when it was in charge. That was the point- it was innately self-destructive.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 04:07 PM
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Nai
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Re: How much power do the Jedi really have?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
1) The republic commits genocide on a planet, despite Jedi protests and threats. What happens?


Well...the republic would never commit genocide on a planet since they don't have any army. If they do it the Jedi would investigate who's responsible and arrest the person and they would have a huge group of Senators supporting them.

quote:

2) The republic is invaded by some alien force.


Well...this is speculative. We've never seen an alien force attacking the Republic while the Republic had 10,000 force users. If you think about it the very small amount of Jedi that were present during the YV invasion did a pretty good job and in the end you had 3 Jedi (Luke, Jacen and Jaina) killing the entire YV headquarter. I know that Luke, Jacen and Jaina are the most powerful force users left at this point but more powerful than 10,000 Jedi ? I doubt it.

quote:

3) Civil war erupts. The republic is completely unprepared for this, and has no army or mobilization set up.


A civil war ? Well...it took Dooku's / Sidious' diplomatic skills to form the CIS which contained the most powerful commerce organisations. A normal civil war can be stopped pretty fast either by diplomacy or by power - which army in the Galaxy would be able to stop 10,000 Jedi ? And if not using droids or "mindless" clone troopers - how many people do you think would dare to fight Jedi in direct confrontation ?


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 05:30 PM
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Janus Marius
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Good points there.

Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 05:33 PM
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Ushgarak
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It's not at all difficult to create an army that can destroy 10000 Jedi. One planet alone could produce the numbers required. Even if a Jedi is worth 100 men- an exaggeration- compared to the manpower of the Galaxy that isn't worth squat.

This was rather the point of it all.


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Last edited by Ushgarak on Nov 1st, 2005 at 10:00 PM

Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 08:30 PM
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Lord Lucien
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure even The old Red Army could take out its fair share of Jedi, not to mention the SW galaxy. No Jedi generation, even at its highest amount in population, could take on a galaxy of people.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 09:53 PM
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Gryn Jabar
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I'm sure that the Jedi could mind **** at least enough people to get a sizeable army, then seize handle the galaxy. That, or pull a Nihilus and reverse force **** the galaxy.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 10:39 PM
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overlord
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The jedi can't take over the galaxy, they would get dependant, they would get egocentrical, they would get angry, they would turn to the dark side and rivalry and shit would tear apart the whole jedi order.

They should just stick to policing, just look at Anakin.. OMFG!! You people get me into the council but don't grant me the jedi master title? AARRGH!!!


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 10:46 PM
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Nai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's not at all difficult to create an army that can destroy 10000 Jedi. One planet alone could produce the numbers required. Even if a Jedi is worth 100 men- an exaggeration- compared to the manpower of the Galaxy that isn't worth squat.


That's not the point Ushgarak.
Most people in the SW galaxy will not even try to attack Jedi in a direct confrontation because that is equal to commit suicide. The Jedi by any means have a legendary status in the SW universe and this is often pointed out - in the EU as well as in the movies.

And even if you can built an army with people willing to fight Jedi (like the KotoR time Mandalorians or something like that) they still won't be able to win against 10,000 Jedi because what can you do against people that can manipulate minds, deflect lasers and throw around things with tons of weight or simply make mountains collapse or stuff like that ? A conventional army doesn't have any chance against this.

@TG:
The Red Army ? You must be joking.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 10:53 PM
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Darth_Glentract
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tangible God
2.) The Republic and the Jedi are royally screwed. (i.e. The Yuuzhan Vong invasion which cost over 350 trillion lives to a Republic WITH a large standing military and uper-Luke.)


I thought it was 365 trillion.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 11:05 PM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I thought it was 365 trillion.
Ah what's a couple trillion here or there?


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 11:23 PM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Borbarad
@TG:
The Red Army ? You must be joking.
What with the Soviet's total disregard of their men, and their love of sending them all in at once, they're bound to take out a good few Jedi.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2005 11:30 PM
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