A member of the SWTOR forums called Ranadiel_Marius has created an essay titled A Primer on the Emperor. This refers to Emperor Vitiate, not Sidious, the character from the Swtor MMO. I could just link you there and be done with it but pasting it all here is kewler so there. Anyone wanting to know more about the Emperor and his history should look here.
Spoiler Warning for everything that follows.
A Primer on the Emperor.
Table of Contents[toc00]
0- Table of Contents [toc00]
1- What is this? [wit01]
2- Who is the Emperor? [wie02]
3- Important Terms [ite03]
4- Timeline of the Emperor [toe04]
5- Explanation of Timeline Entries [ete05]
6- The Problem with Scourge [pws06]
7- Questions and Answers [qaa07]
8- Update Log[udl08]
What is this?[wit01]
This is a project I have had in the back of my mind for a while now. Basically this is my attempt to explain everything about the Emperor that is currently known. The section that is the most important in my opinion is the Explanation of the Timeline Entries section as it is going to be where I explain how the events in various stories are interconnected. I’ve separated this from the timeline to try and make the timeline easier to read.
I’m going to be heavily citing to the game. While this whole primer is essentially a giant spoiler(so yeah spoiler warning), I am going to put any and all direct quotes from the game in spoiler tags in an attempt to make it clear when I am directly citing the game.
Who is the Emperor?[wie02]
The Emperor is Lord Vitiate who lived during the time of the Great Hyperspace War and gained immortality near the end of it. He then led the remains of the Sith on a trip which ended with them settling on Dromund Kaas and reforming the Empire under his rule. According to legend he was born on the planet Medriaas with the name Tenebrae. Potentially he is one of, if not the, most powerful force user in Star Wars mythos. To stand in the presence of his Voice is to be corrupted to the dark side. To stand in the presence of his True Body is to have your mind addled.
Important Terms.[ite03]
Emperor’s True Body- This is a term that the game does not use, but I am going to use to avoid confusion on what I am referring to. The Emperor’s True Body is his main body which is presumably the body he was born with. Potentially could be a Sith Pureblood body, but the evidence for that is not conclusive.
Voice of the Emperor- This is the body that the Emperor speaks to the Empire through. According to the codex, the Voice always speaks with….the same voice. The Voice of the Emperor is created by the Emperor placing “his power and consciousness” into another body. The codex states that the Voice has had appearances that range from a young human female to an elderly full-blooded Sith male. In game we see him as a Voss mystic and an elderly human male.
Emperor’s Hand- This is an organization consisting of a group of people who essentially oversee the Emperor’s plans. The exact size of it is unknown, we see three members each of which is conveniently named “Servant #”. I personally suspect there ten servants because of the name, but that is solely speculation. According to the codex, “the Emperor's thoughts are theirs, and their wills are his to command.”
Children of the Emperor- The Children are a group of people that have been indoctrinated by the Emperor, most since a young age. According to the codex, “the children are infused with the Emperor's strength, sharing some measure of his thoughts and power for the rest of their lives.” Additionally the Emperor can turn them into puppets if he wishes to possess them. It is somewhat implied the Emperor might be able to hear and see what all of his Children are experiencing and the codex supports this by saying “[t]hey become the Emperor's eyes and ears.”
First Son of the Emperor- The most powerful of the Children of the Emperor. There are two things that really distinguish him from other Children. First he has something of a split personality, his personality as a Child of the Emperor is separate from the one he exhibits during normal life making him a perfect sleeper agent. It should be noted though that he is not the only one like this though. The more important difference is that he is responsible for shielding all the Children of the Emperor who serve as infiltrators in the Republic from being detected by the Jedi.
Emperor’s Wrath- The Emperor’s executioner. A position created specifically for Lord Scourge upon his betrayal of Revan. Currently only two Wraths have ever existed, Lord Scourge and the Sith Warrior. Lord Scourge was given immortality along with the position. I have seen an argument made that the Sith Warrior was given immortality upon receiving the position as well, but the evidence for this isn’t particularly strong and it not made particularly clear if that is intended to be the case.
Timeline of the Emperor.[toe04]
5,113 BBY- Emperor is born
5,000 BBY- Following the end of the Great Hyperspace War, Emperor performs ritual to gain immortality and leads an exodus of Sith outside of known hyperspace routes
4,980 BBY- Emperor’s exodus arrives on Dromund Kaas
3,960 BBY- Revan and Malak attempt to face the Emperor and become his servants
Approx. 300 years before Jedi Knight Chapter 2- Scourge, Revan, and Surik challenge the Emperor. Scourge betrays Revan and Surik and is given the position of Emperor’s Wrath. Revan is taken prisoner and used to allow the Emperor to access the Light Side of the force.
3,681 BBY- Sith Empire begins the Great War by attacking the Republic.
At least 20 years before Jedi Knight Chapter 3- A “great Sith lord”, potentially the Emperor, visits Voss and makes deals with Sel-Makor.
3,653 BBY- Treaty of Coruscant signed. Around the time this occurs, the Emperor leaves the known galaxy to an unknown location.
5 years before Imperial Agent Chapter 3- Latest possible point in the timeline that Voss could be discovered. Shortly after Voss is discovered, Empire wages war on Voss and is defeated. During the war a Voss mystic is captured to be used as a host body for the Voice of the Empire.
Jedi Knight Chapter 1: First encounter between the Emperor and the Jedi Knight, meeting occur by Sith Emperor taking over Kira.
Roughly Chapter 2 of Republic class stories: Republic forces free Revan from Imperial prison resulting in connection between Revan and the Emperor being broken.
Jedi Knight Chapter 2: Jedi Knight and 3 other Jedi attempt to capture the Voice of the Emperor, believing it to be the Emperor. Jedi Knight defeats Scourge, but then the Emperor defeats and converts the Jedi to be his minions.
Between Jedi Knight Chapters 2 and 3: The Voice of the Emperor goes to Voss and is captured by a trap laid by Baras.
Start of Jedi Knight Chapter 3: Jedi Knight breaks free of the Emperor’s control and Scourge betrays the Emperor by aiding the Jedi Knight and his team to escape.
Start of the Sith Warrior Chapter 3: Sith Warrior is left for dead and the Emperor’s Hand find shim and recruits him as the new Emperor’s Wrath.
During Chapter 3: Jedi Knight foils the Emperor’s plans while the Sith Warrior foils Baras’s plans. During the course of events the Sith Warrior kills the Voice on Voss in order to allow it to be freed so it can be placed in a new host.
Jedi Consular Finale: Jedi Consular confronts the First Son and prevents him form influencing events any further.
Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior Finales: The Jedi Knight confronts the Voice of the Emperor on Dromund Kaas believing it to be the Emperor and defeats him resulting in the death of the Voice. At about the same time, the Sith Warrior defeats Baras becoming officially recognized as the Emperor’s Wrath.
Jedi Knight Interlude: Jedi Knight goes with Kira to see Suri. Jedi Knight learns that the Children of the Emperor are hearing a lot voices since his battle on Dromund Kaas.
5,113 BBY
Year is taken from Wookiepedia’s entry on the Emperor. Events from early on in the Emperor’s life are skipped in the timeline as my understanding is that they are presented in the book Revan as essentially rumors that circulate the Dark Council. As such their accuracy is presented as being suspect. However they are in the book Revan and a synopsis is on the Wookiepedia article for anyone who would like to read up on a potential early life story of the Emperor.
5,000 BBY
The Emperor did his ritual following the death of Naga Sadow signaling the end of the Great Hyperspace War. The year might be off if it took a few months for everything to happen, but it should be approximately right.
4,980 BBY
According to the holonet article for Domund Kaas, the Sith exodus took 20 years, so year is 20 years after the previous entry. Could be a year or two off potentially, but it should be approximately right.
3,960 BBY
Year listed is the year of the end of the Madalorian Wars according to Wookiepedia. Once again, this could be off by a year depending on how long events following the war actually took.
Approx. 300 years before Jedi Knight Chapter 2
Scourge states that he had been waiting 300 years before first meeting the Jedi Knight. It could be interpreted that he meant something like 298 or 302 and was just rounding, so I am putting it down as an approximate.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: I waited three hundred years for your birth. When I saw your face on Quesh....
3,681 BBY
Year is established by this timeline entry. Conversion from BTC to BBY taken from Wookiepedia.
At least 20 years before Jedi Knight Chapter 3
According to Sel-Makor, a Sith Lord visited Voss and made deals with him decades ago. My interpretation when I ran through this scene on my Jedi Knight was that this was supposed to be the Emperor. In reviewing the dialogue though, there is no strong evidence to back up assumption on this point. I am including it in the timeline because I still believe it to have been the Emperor, but I admit I might be wrong. And as I was working on other parts of this primer, it occurred to me that this could potentially have been Bara. This would explain a few things, but it raises some questions at the same time.
As for the location in the timeline, the class stories are supposed to be beginning between 8 and 10 years after the Treaty. Sel-Makor says the Sith visited him decades ago implying 20+ years putting it befoe the Treaty. Potentially it could be before the start of the War, but the evidence for this either way is not clear.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Sel-Makor: “Jedi. Cast the Mystic into the maw. Rewards. Power. Sel-Makor offers them to you. Like the one who came before.”
Jedi Knight(choice “The one who came before?”): “Who are you talking about? Was there someone here before Fulminiss?”
Sel-Makor: “Decades ago. A Sith. Greater than Fulminiss. Deals were made. Power was given.”
3,653 BBY
Occurs 28 years after beginning of the War. How much time passes between the Treaty and the Emperor leaving the known galaxy is not made clear. It should also be noted that Revan’s influence on the Emperor is implied to have played a part in the creation of the Treaty or at least his acceptance of the Treaty.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Servant One: “Since the Treaty of Coruscant, the Emperor has withdrawn from the known galaxy, preparing for a great calling.”
Revan: “The Emperor used me as his link to the light side of the Force--the Jedi Order. Through me, he saw visions. But that same link also gave me influence. I convinced the Emperor peace was in his best interest. Tempered his hate.”
5 years before Imperial Agent Chapter 3
The year that Voss was discovered is important to the Emperor’s timeline because the Empire attempted to invade Voss shortly after discovering the planet, and the invasion is when the Emperor gained his Voss body for the Voice of the Emperor. As Voss is frequently referred to as being recently discovered, I believe the Sith Lord who made a deal with Sel-Makor was there before the planet was officially discovered as 20 years is not really “recently discovered.”
In a dialogue on Voss, an NPC tells the Imperial Agent he has been on the planet for 5 years. This is really the only instance of establishing the Voss discovery timeline that I am aware of. I do feel it necessary to bring up that the codex entry for Gaden-Ko from the Consular story mentions that his generation to grow up where alien outsiders are a common sight, implying a discovery and “peace” well before 5 years ago(assuming a human rate of maturing). All of this doesn’t precisely tell us when the war happened or ended, but I believe it is a safe bet that it was finished before the start of any of the class stories which is the important part.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Imperial Agent NPC: “Living with these creatures for five years earns some credibility.”
Servant One: “True. Years ago, when the Empire became aware of Voss, the Emperor sent the military to lay siege to the planet. The visionaries thwarted what they foresaw to be a simple attempt to conquer. But the Emperor's purpose was to claim a Voss visionary to house the Voice of the Emperor.”
Servant One, later in the dialogue: “The Emperor needed a Voss vessel to gain access to the planet's secrets. The ultimate reason is his alone to know.”
Gaden-Ko Codex Snippet: “Gaden-Ko's generation is the first to grow up in a Voss-Ka where alien outsiders are a common sight. He has always had an interest in these foreigners, even developing a friendship with the Republic ambassador. Perhaps because of these outside influences, Gaden-Ko is seen to be rather impulsive and impatient compared to other Voss.”
Jedi Knight Chapter 1
I’m assuming for the timeline that all of the Chapter 1s are finished before any of the Chapter 2s begin, but even without that I don’t think there is really any kind of debate that can be made about this being the first chronological appearance of the Emperor in game.
Roughly Chapter 2 of Republic class stories
I am assuming that this event occurs before the Jedi Knight Chapter 2 finale because it is lower leveled content. I don’t believe that there are any actual references that would make the order of these two specific events important though.
Jedi Knight Chapter 2
See above entry for reasoning on timeline. Statements regarding mistaken belief of the Jedi are based on the fact that the person the Jedi are after is apparently controlling the Empire from the space station and the Emperor had previously left the known galaxy (see 3,653 BBY) putting him outside of contact with the Empire and presumably leaving his Voice as his liaison with the Empire.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Master Tol Braga: “There's an ancient fortress orbiting the Imperial homeworld Dromund Kaas. It's hidden by a powerful cloaking device. The Emperor rules his people from this cloaked fortress. Not even the highest-ranking Sith can find him.”
Between Jedi Knight Chapters 2 and 3
The events that I describe here clearly happen before Sith Warrior Chapter 3 begins. However an argument could potentially be made that it isn’t clear that it happens before the Jedi Knight Chapter 3 starts. My response is that it just fits better if the Voice of the Emperor has been trapped on Voss before the Jedi Knight regains his senses. There is clearly meant to be a long time skip between Chapters, and I believe the timeline for all the Chapter 3 stories is tighter than it is during Chapter 1 and 2 because the Belsavis and Corellia storylines for all the classes are tied to specific events happening that I do not believe could have lasted for more than a month or two.
If my interpretation of the timeline is accurate for Chapter then that would mean that the Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight start fairly close together, and at the start of the Sith Warrior’s story the Emperor’s Hand implies that the Voice has been missing for a while. I realize that I might be stretching things a little bit here, but I will also point out that that Voice is missing from his personal invisible space station with no explanation during the Jedi Knight’s training scenes and this is consistent with the Voice heading for Voss and being captured during this period. There are of course other explanations for this latter bit, but I think it just fits together better if the Voice goes to Voss before the Jedi Knight Chapter 3 begins.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Servant One: “The Dark Council has been waiting for word from the Voice. Many are desperate for it to speak again. But the true Voice has been silenced. And in its absence, there is nothing to deny Baras's claim.”
Start of Jedi Knight Chapter 3
I don’t think there is really anything that needs to be discussed on this point.
Start of the Sith Warrior Chapter 3
Placed this after the start of the Jedi Knight’s Chapter 3 because Scourge had the title of the Emperor’s Wrath up until then. The position only opened up after Scourge’s betrayal and Scourge certainly was never aware that anyone else held the position before he left the Empire.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Jedi Knight (option I'd rather hear about you.): “How does someone become the Emperor's Wrath?”
During Chapter 3
There is no context for the precise order of these events. The Sith Warrior likely finishes Voss before the Jedi Knight since the Jedi Knight has the option to kill Sel-Makor so chronology of events is just cleaner if that option occurs after Sel-Makor has done everything he can in all the storylines. However other than that, these two storylines just don’t have any real impact on each other, so placing individual events ranges from difficult to impossible.
Jedi Consular Finale
This has to happen before the Jedi Knight finale because none of the Children of the Emepror that you encounter are exhibiting the symptoms that apparently occur to all the Children after the Jedi Knight finale.
Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior Finales
The precise timing of these events is not clear. However it is stated by Servant One in an email that the Jedi attack on the Voice occurred while the Sith Warrior was confronting Baras. As such I assume the two events occurred at roughly the same time, so within a week of each other. Read the Problem with Scourge section for a detailed discussion on the reasoning why the person the Jedi Knight fights is most likely the Voice.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Snippet from a Servant One email: “While you silenced Darth Baras, the Jedi attempted the impossible feat of destroying the Emperor. Instead, they merely defeated the Emperor’s true Voice.”
Jedi Knight Interlude
This quest with Kira can only be triggered after the Jedi Knight completes Chapter 3 with lots of affection with Kira. I mention this because the quest gives clues about where the Emperor’s story might be heading.
The Problem with Scourge,[pws06]
Alright I’ve been putting this off long enough. Time for the controversial section!
In the game we are presented with two conflicting narratives of what happens in the JK’s final story mission. The Jedi Knight story presents the story as the Jedi Knight has defeated the Emperor during the final confrontation between them. Meanwhile the Sith Warrior gets a few emails from Servant One, after having beaten the final Sith Warrior story mission, stating that there was an attack on Dromund Kaas and the Voice of the Emperor was killed during the attack. These emails are clearly meant to be talking about the Jedi Knight finale. Just looking at these two narratives, there really is no problem with reconciling them. Jedi Knight simply entered a fight without fully understanding his enemy and as a result misunderstood what happened.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Second email(first relevant one):
Wrath, we have an important matter to discuss. It is time you knew the secret of the Emperor’s absence.
While you silenced Darth Baras, the Jedi attempted the impossible feat of destroying the Emperor. Instead, they merely defeated the Emperor’s true Voice.
The unexpected blow was a shock. The Emperor’s consciousness was wretched from his Voice. He now slumbers gathering his strength.
The Imperial Guard has moved the Emperor’s body. As his Wrath, you will soon be called upon to rain fury on the Emperor’s attackers.
Speak of this to no one. The Hand will contact you with further orders shortly. In the meantime, continue your service to the Emperor.
Third email(second relevant one):
The Emperor's recovery continues. But while he slumbers, his Wrath is needed more than ever.
The Empire echoes with whispered rumors of the Emperor's weakness. Baras was the first of many Sith to grow bold in our master's absence. Some even suspect the Emperor's death.
It is the duty of the Wrath to silence these rumors.
Show the Empire your incredible strength. Devastate your enemies in the Emperor's name. Only then will the transgressors bow to you in awe and renew their devotion to our master.
The Emperor's return approaches. Prepare for his ascendance, Wrath.
However because Scourge exists, things get controversial. As stated in above sections, Scourge was the original Emperor’s Wrath and the position was in fact created for him. He has been the personal executioner for the Emperor for around three centuries prior to the game’s start. As we are currently unaware of anyone else who the Emperor has given immortality to, he is likely the person who has known the Emperor for the longest period of time, not counting force ghosts. And here is where the problem comes in. Despite Scourge’s long standing relationship (not that kind) with the Emperor, he seems to believe that the Emperor is dead.
This has resulted in the fan community, as of the time of this writing, to essentially split into two camps, those that believe Servant One is the more believable source of information and those that believe that Scourge could not be tricked by the Emperor. This has lead to many pages of forum arguments over whether the Emperor was killed or whether the Voice of the Emperor was killed. Now that the debate has been framed, I will attempt to put forth the best argument possible as to why Servant One’s explanation fits better with everything we know. I expect this section will likely be expanded semi-frequently as I have to add responses to points other people bring up.
Now to begin, there are a few things that I first have to address. I’ve seen people mention that Scourge would clearly know what the Emperor looks like considering how long he has been serving the Emperor, and therefore he would recognize the Emperor’s True Body when the Jedi Knight kills it. However Scourge does not see who the Jedi Knight fights. He is able to sense the Emperor’s life force, but the Voice of the Emperor is possessed by the Emperor. Regardless of whether the body beaten by the Jedi Knight is the Emperor or the Voice, Scourge would feel the Emperor.
Now another frequently used argument, frequently in combination with the previous one, is that the person the Jedi Knight meets at the end of Chapter 2 is the same person that the Jedi Knight fought at the end of Chapter 3. Scourge seems to believe that the person at the end of Chapter 2 is the true Emperor and therefore the person the Jedi Knight fights must also be the Emperor. To begin with, there is nothing conclusive that shows that the two people in question look the same. There are only two things that they have in common, they wear mostly the same clothes and they have the same body type. Considering that there are only four body types in the game, using that as evidence that two people are the same is hardly conclusive or really persuasive when the vast majority of NPCs, and likely PCs also, have body type 2. So that just leaves the clothes as evidence that they are the same person.
Now the two NPCs in question both wear the same outfit with a single difference between them. The Chapter 2 NPC is wearing a mask while the Chapter 3 NPC is not. As a result of the mask, the Chapter 2 NPC does not have a hood, but that is just how wearing a mask works in the game with a hooded chest piece. So the question now is, why is the Chapter 2 NPC wearing a mask while the Chapter 3 NPC is not. The sort of ‘duh’ answer is to hide his face in Chapter 2 and not in Chapter 3? There is no dramatic reveal to go along with the removing of the mask. The Emperor isn’t someone that the Jedi Knight knows, so it isn’t to hide his identity from the player. So why would the developers give him a mask in one instance, but not in another? To hide the fact that he is in a Voss body either from the players, Scourge, or just about everyone in the Empire (reasoning on him being in a Voss body at this point in time explained above in Timeline Explanation). I feel I need to point out here, that according to Servant One, the Emperor wasn’t even in the known galaxy at the time of the Jedi Knight’s Chapter 2 conclusion. I see no reason for him to lie on this point given the context of the line and I believe he would be the person most likely to know where the Emperor was since the Hand shares the Emperor’s thoughts.
All of this brings us back around to the Problem with Scourge, namely how could Scourge not recognize that it was the Voice of the Emperor sitting on the throne and not the true Emperor. Some people have argued that Scourge simply could not make this mistake because Scourge’s goal in life is to stop the Emperor at all costs. The argument goes that he would be person least likely to make any kind of mistake of properly identifying the Emperor. I’m going to first point out that we don’t know what kind of interaction Scourge has had with the Emperor over the past three centuries. We don’t know if Scourge was constantly at the Emperor’s side or if he was in a position much more like the Sith Warrior where he received orders from the Emperor’s Hand and had very little actual interaction in person. For all we know, Scourge’s fight with the Jedi Knight was the first time Scourge was ever brought aboard the station. We simply don’t know these facts.
I’m going to take a position now…..that I expect to be controversial in the replies. I don’t think Scourge has ever met the Emperor’s True Body. During the Sith Warrior storyline, one of the dialogue options has Servant One explain the reason that Servant Two speaks in his unusual manner. The reason is because Servant Two has been exposed to the Emperor. Considering how Servant One makes a distinction when referring to the Emperor or the Voice, I believe this to mean that Servant Two has met the Emperor’s True Body. And apparently meeting it was enough to addle Servant Two’s mind, or give him a very unusual perspective depending on how you look at it.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: SW: “I struggle to understand what he says.”
Servant One: “Servant Two has been exposed to the Emperor. He now sees the galaxy differently than most.”
Scourge does not show any sign of similar exposure to the Emperor’s True Body. If we go with the assumption that Scourge has never met the Emperor’s True Body, this could actually explain why Scourge’s vision didn’t show Revan beating the Emepror without having to resort to self fulfilling prophecies. The explanation would be that Revan, the Exile, and Scourge were fighting against the Voice of the Emperor. Killing the Voice would not stop the True Body and unlike the Jedi Knight they did not have a fleet securing them an escape route so they could fight again another day.
This would mean that Scourge would have no knowledge of the Emperor’s True Body. And if he has only met the Voice, he might actually be used to the Emperor changing bodies and not realized that there is a distinction between the Voice and the True Body. Scourge certainly never shows any knowledge of the existence of the Voice in any of his dialogues.
Another argument that I have seen on the topic of Scourge is that Scourge should have easily recognized whether or not the Emperor killed was the actual one because his visions showed him the battle. I first point back to my previous point that Scourge did not see who or what the Jedi Knight fought. I secondly point out that Scourge tells the Jedi Knight his vision. Hat vision has not come to pass either figuratively or literally as Scourge was not at the final battle and the Jedi Knight does not currently have the option of taking over the Empire. So the vision has not come to pass yet, and I would take that as evidence that he Jedi Knight’s final fight against the Emperor has not come up yet.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Scourge on Scourge’ vision: “Until my vision: Jedi, shining with the Force, lined up to destroy him. All were swept aside. Revan and the Exile were cast at my feet. Then out of the shadows, one Jedi emerged to cut the Emperor down. That Jedi wore your face.”
(Jedi Knight dialogue prompt that I’m detailing because none of the options are particularly relevant)
“In the vision, I bowed to you and took a crown from the Emperor's head. It ended when you held his power in your hands.”
The next argument that I can recall seeing regarding this debate is essentially that having the person the Jedi Knight fought be the Voice of the Emperor ignores the point of Scourge’s character. Scourge’s character doesn’t lose his point just because he was outmaneuvered by the Emperor. The Emperor had been alive for over a thousand years by the time that Scourge was born. The Emperor has had countless foes rise up to challenge him. The idea that the Emperor didn’t explain all the nitty gritty details to one of his servants should hardly come as any kind of surprise. The Emperor didn’t just give Scourge the secret specifics to his grand plan, Scourge had to work to get the specifics and we already know that he didn’t get everything. He didn’t know what worlds were in danger besides Belsavis. Scourge didn’t even know what the full details on the plan at Belsavis were. The fact that he doesn’t know something doesn’t ruin the point of his character or anything like that. He did the best that he could, but he was up against someone who is ridiculously powerful and with more experience than we can really comprehend.
A related argument that I have seen is that having the Emperor survive the Jedi Knight’s attack ruins the point of the Jedi Knight’s story. I have to disagree with this. I think there is a lot of story potential from the Jedi Knight discovering that the Emperor is still around and continuing to challenge the Emperor. This would also solve the problem of having to top taking down the Emperor in future class story expansions. On the other hand if the Emperor is killed for good that would completely ruin the current story end point for the Sith Warrior. The Sith Warrior’s position depends on the Emperor being around. Before I had played through the Sith Warrior’s storyline I had some ideas on how it could continue, but after having gone through the story I just don’t think it work well to have the Sith Warrior storyline to basically continue with “Hey the Emperor’s dead so you are now demoted to working under Darth Suchandsuch because you need a quest giver.”
Once again I say: why aren't movies being made for the Old Republic? No worries about destroying our beloved characters by having new people reprise Luke, Lando, Leia, Han, etc. HUGE land and space battles, great protagonists and villains, and enough lightsaber action to leave after-images in your retinas. All of that is cool to read and see in a game, but this is begging to be on the big screen.
I agree, the concept of the Old Republic setting was a brilliant move by Bioware, and imo they made use of the setting extremely well. It's almost sad that its only being used by a video game and a few novels though.
Personally what I would do is finish the Clone Wars cartoon (it has to end eventually) and move on to making a cartoon on the TOR-era war. It would be hard to incorporate the current characters though. You'd nee to make canon versions of the classes, which I figure they won't do.
Like they can't afford it. But they know we'll lap up the dregs of animation.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
I think live-action would be great. The Old Republic storyline is setup perfectly for the darker aura that pervaded ROTS. It's also a saga that begs for good actors and actually allowing them to act. No falling out of ships then being fine as soon as someone helps you up, no "NOOOOOOOOOOO!", no Jar Jars, just a great story in a universe that so many are clamoring to see. Could you imagine if a new series were released that on top of just being something that we're all begging for were well-acted and recieved critical acclaim as well?
Maybe I'm foolish, but I see so much potential going to waste by not bringing it to the biggest audience possible. Even from a business perspective I don't understand it because it could be animated by fourth-graders and still make hundreds of millions, so why not do it right and reap the benefits?
Too many characters, too big a storyline, for a live action movie to ever work.
Anyway, give me a couple of hours to get home and find a good "didnt read lol" gif to post in here.
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
Psssh, if they can make Game of Thrones happen anything is possible. I'll take an HBO series, whatever it takes. I want no excuses, Captain. Bring me the rebels!
Game of Thrones is also a tv series, not a movie. lol
Though, I don't think you specified a movie, just live action, so we're good.
Edit- /fist shake at Neph.
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
Nice analysis. It actually made me think about a few theories.
Essence transfer
Voice of the Emperor. So basically it is a body of some random immensely powerful Force user that contains emperor's essence and power. Is it right? Didn't I miss anything? If he indeed transferred his essence, then what happened to original body? How can it exist without a soul? Also, there is canon evidence that original body dies/gets destroyed as result of essence transfer.
As example, we have Bane, who transferred his essence into Zannah. As the result of the ritual his body turned into ashes.
We have Palpatine transferring his essence several times. In each case, except one, he was killed. The only case, when he didn't get killed was, when Luke attacked clone laboratory. I made a research and even in this case Palpatine had to die in order to transfer essence into laboratory clone.
EMPEROR: Hmm....is it so? Very well...then I must die!!! (LAUGHS. THE LAUGHTER ECHOES AS HIS BODY FADES OUT OF HIS CLOTHING.)
So we have two different Sith and both die as result of essence transfer.
To make survival of original body even more skeptical Voice of the Emperor got trapped at Voss. My best source is wookieepedia, so prove me, if this statement is wrong:
"Sel-Makor imprisoned the Voss that served as the Voice of the Emperor and kept him from killing himself, thus preventing this Voice of the Sith Emperor from seeking a new voice."
According to this Vitiate indeed needed to die in order to seek new body.
So can we assume that there is no original body left?
Another argument why it might be original body
Original body is assumed to be the strongest due to highest midichlorian count, which was the original source of his superior power. Wouldn't it make sense to perform galaxy consuming ritual with original body to ensure its survivable?
As counter to this argument could be said that it is better to keep original body elsewhere, if ritual destroys him. But since the ritual was meant to consume entire galaxy, wouldn't it consume the original body together with all possible Voices?
Why it matters?
Why it matters, whether JK killed original body or a Voice? Vitiate demonstrated that he can transfer his essence from body to body together with his power. Even, if it was original body, he would simply jump into someone else. Sidious lost original body and still he returned and even, when clones finished, he was gonna transfer into Anakin.
Honestly, I think he is bullshitting.
When Palpatine transferred into last clone body in laboratory, how long did it take him to recover? He engaged in lightsaber combat straight away, tanked Luke's Force lightning, out dueled him, broke his will and mind dominated him. Basically Palpatine showed what the most powerful Sith is capable of without any need to recover.
Was it the prophesied duel?
Nephtys, indeed you made great analysis. Can't give any valid argument against that.
The only thing I can say is that having two similar duels of the fate doesn't strike as incredible plot device.
If we think about it. Why the Force showed that vision to Scourge? So he can help defeat Emperor. He did his part and as result Vitiate died. But, if he is still alive, it means that Scourge won't be able to help again and, therefore, the vision had no purpose. And we know that the Force doesn't give visions just for fun sake.
And for JK everything went right. His first kiss in his entire life gave him that boost of love to amplify his lightside power. He tanked all Vitiate's attacks like a boss. And as the result he became Jedi Master.
If JK is, yet, again to fight Emperor, my imagination went as far as this:
JM lost his virginity and his girlfriend got pregnant and he gets double boost from happiness of having sex and becoming father.
Emperor this time will have apart from standard powers twice more illusions, dark tentacles, ability to fly and much more reddish eyes.
JM still tanks like a boss but this time he experiences rare state of Oneness with the Force, glows like a lighting bulb and Vitiate first time in his entire all dominating life gets overpowered.
And at congratulations ceremony Satele Shan says: "OH! SHIT!!! I give you my Grand Master Title".
Last edited by Arhael on Jun 28th, 2012 at 07:15 AM
Just to clarify, but I didn't write this, it was another person from the Swtor forums. The link is at the top. I'll reply to the rest later if you want.
By the way, Satale doesn't make you a Jedi Master if you are darkside. She snubs you right there in your victory celebration. Instead you get made Grand General of the Republic.
To be honest it's all speculation and assumptions. I don't think authors would pay attention to every single detail of other sources to make it perfectly consistent and invent their own thing. So all those contradictions I pointed out might simply be discarded as different portrayal of things.
So far it seems they made it unclear and debatable, whether Vitiate is finished for good or is coming back, so they have freedom of choice of bringing him back with next update or not.
By the way, is Malgus still alive? Wook says that he declared himself New Emperor. Maybe he gonna be the new main villain in next update? I really liked Deceived book with him. His rage reminded me of Oppress and Marek. Excluding Vitiate he struck me as the most powerful Sith of his time. And he is the only Sith I know, who truly sacrificed his love, unlike Jacen.
Jun 28th, 2012 12:17 AM
