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Understanding Darth Nihilus
Started by: S_W_LeGenD

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S_W_LeGenD
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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

Understanding Darth Nihilus

I just came across this analysis about Darth Nihilus from Beni: http://www.swtor.com/community/show...32&page=133

Am I the only one who finds his assessment extreme?

If Darth Nihilius have no limits then he could have destroyed the entire galaxy in a single attempt. Why bother targeting planet after planet which would be slow and risky process?

Nihilus's Katarr based feat can be a ritualistic development (still an awesome feat and one of the best of the mythos). We just have statement from Visas to consider for this matter but she never witnessed Nihilus performing this action, she was not with him when he attacked Katarr.

Also, KoTOR-CG provides information about how Nihilus became such an adept with Force Drain:

Darth Traya indeed teaches the newly christened Darth Nihilus to harness his life-draining gift to radical height - so effectively, in fact, that Nihilus saps Traya's power in a calculated double-cross.

Yes, Nihilus eventually becomes a being of hunger and pure dark side power, a living primitive intention, but he is still a functioning Force-user with a command of the Force (not human of-course). His condition likely makes it possible for him to perform Force Drain on a massive scale but he still have limits.

Darth Traya even asserted that Nihilus will eventually self-destruct.

From SWTOR:

They did not know that Darth Nihilus, a being of pure hunger and dark side power, was approaching the colony. Drawn to the assembled Masters, Nihilus devoured the life energy of everything on Katarr. Millions of Miraluka died, along with most of the Jedi Order's senior members. Walking Katarr's lifeless surface later, Darth Nihilus came across the only survivor: the traumatized Miraluka Visas Marr, whom Nihilus took as his apprentice.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jan 3rd, 2015 at 12:57 PM

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2015 12:48 PM
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WildBantha88
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Rituals usually take a very long time where his Kattar feat took 1 hour. A single hour for a giant death cloud to sweep across an entire planet seems a lot shorter than a ritual would take


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Nephthys
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We see the technique used multiple times and theres no ritual involved.


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Angelalex242
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I usually say that for all he's a cancer in the force, sufficiently powerful force users will either cure (light side) or destroy (dark side) that cancer.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2015 05:24 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by WildBantha88
Rituals usually take a very long time where his Kattar feat took 1 hour. A single hour for a giant death cloud to sweep across an entire planet seems a lot shorter than a ritual would take

Some Force powers manifest quickly, Force Drain is among the fastest powers to manifest. Also, every kind of ritual does not take long to materialize, this is a misconception. Power of the practitioner can also influence the speed of manifestation of powers from ritualistic expressions.

It is likely that Nihilus had a lock on signatures of all Force-sensitive inhabitants of the Katarr before he commenced the attack, like a homing beacon. His sensory capabilities may have been very well developed in part due to his condition that facilitated his hunger. But this event would not have been possible without significant preparation beforehand. See the case of attempted attack on Telos IV below.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
We see the technique used multiple times and theres no ritual involved.

Not on planetary-scale.

Nihilus approached Telos IV prior to confrontation with Strike Team led by Surik, right? He didn't manage to assault Telos IV in the manner of Katarr during these developments and was taken down.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2015 05:56 PM
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The Merchant
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He was going to but the strike team is the reason why he didn't eat Telov IV.


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 01:08 AM
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Jaggarath
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Also because since there wasn't a lot of Force energy on the planet, it wasn't the same circumstances as Katarr. Traya tricked him to go their specifically for that purpose.

"If there are no Jedi here, then my Lord cannot feed his hunger. He will destroy the planet, the station, he will cleanse it of life. Even if the people below are not Force Sensitive, the small amount he can feed on from the mass destruction of the station, and the life of the planet, will sustain him a while longer."
― Tobin (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords)


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Last edited by Jaggarath on Jan 4th, 2015 at 01:15 AM

Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 01:13 AM
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Based
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The first step in understanding him is to actually play the game.

Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 02:37 AM
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Bigblue442
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by WildBantha88
Rituals usually take a very long time where his Kattar feat took 1 hour.


Source?

Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 03:36 AM
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Bigblue442
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If you want to understand Darth Nihilus, go to that TOR forum and find the person that ranks Nihilus as number one in the list of top 10 Sith Lords.

He will have the answers you seek.

Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 03:40 AM
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Jaggarath
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Wha?


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 03:44 AM
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NewGuy01
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bigblue442
Source?


Unseen, unheard.

Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 03:45 AM
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Board Walker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bigblue442
If you want to understand Darth Nihilus, go to that TOR forum and find the person that ranks Nihilus as number one in the list of top 10 Sith Lords.

He will have the answers you seek.


You seek enlightenment?


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 04:28 AM
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The Merchant
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Oh boy.


__________________
"Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."

Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 04:41 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Merchant
He was going to but the strike team is the reason why he didn't eat Telov IV.

Nihilus would have eventually, but I am talking about the time required for preparation for an attack of such a scale.

My point is that Nihilhus could not pull a feat of such a scale with a single word. He would have done so otherwise. Strike Team's arrival wouldn't have mattered.

Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 08:54 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also because since there wasn't a lot of Force energy on the planet, it wasn't the same circumstances as Katarr. Traya tricked him to go their specifically for that purpose.

"If there are no Jedi here, then my Lord cannot feed his hunger. He will destroy the planet, the station, he will cleanse it of life. Even if the people below are not Force Sensitive, the small amount he can feed on from the mass destruction of the station, and the life of the planet, will sustain him a while longer."
― Tobin (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords)

Your opening remark is interesting.

Tobin simply asserted that Nihilus would not be able to satiate his hunger properly by attacking a planet lacking in Force-sensitive inhabitants.

I still maintain that Nihilus needs ample time and preparation to unleash an attack on a planetary scale. Katarr also doesn't seems like a large planet.

If he could unleash an attack of planetary scale with a word, he would have done this at Telos IV.

Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 10:13 AM
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Beniboybling
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Allow me to break it down for you, firstly, lets be clear on the definition of infinite, which is not something that is unlimited in every respect i.e. all powerful, but:

limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate.

Darth Nihilus is not unlimited in every respect, to claim that his powers are infinite does not mean Nihilus is all-powerful or omnipotent, it does not mean he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants, such as consume a galaxy, what it means is that there are no limits to the amount of power Nihilus has the capacity to wield. To explain further:

Nihilus, as a Force Wound incarnate, is constantly consuming the Living Force around him to sustain his hunger, simply by being in his presence one is drained. And every time Nihilus consumes Living Force two thing happen, the Force energy he has at his disposal increases, and his capacity to drain the Force around him increases. Therefore Nihilus powers are constantly increasing, simply by manner of existing Nihilus grows stronger with every waking moment, and because he is not limited by midi-chlorians there is no point at which he will reach maximum capacity, he will keep consuming and consuming and consuming, growing stronger and stronger with no end in sight because the Force will never run out.

How does one measure something that is constantly increasing in size and scope, and by mere virtue of existing, will never stop increasing?

As infinite. the power Nihilus possesses is an immeasurable, infinite number.

Returning to Legend's point, what he is doing is taking Nihilus powers as a snapshot, a freeze frame if you will in which lets say his powers are at 200, which is enough power only to consume a planet. But considering Nihilus powers are constantly increasing, that at a moment later he is at 300 and then some, this is not an accurate depcition of his power, we cannot take Nihilus at any one point as say "this is Nihilus" because his powers are in a constant state of flux.

Simply put his powers are immeasurable, unquantifiable, which is primarily why we cannot consider him for a list which is ultimately all about quantifying power.

P.S. There is no evidence to suggest that Nihilus powers are the product of ritual, and as far as we are aware his variant of Force Drain is a non-ritualistic power.


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Selenial
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Based
The first step in understanding him is to actually play the game.


Happy Dance

Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 04:12 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
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Beni,

If Nihilus is continuously increasing in power, why does he feels the need to attack planets again and again? And why he failed to consume Telos IV on short notice after approaching it in space?

Something is amiss.

When he feels weak, he decides to consume on mass scale. Otherwise, he continues to function for days without bothering to do so because his hunger is satiated for a while. Force exists everywhere so if he could sustain himself by consuming it directly, he wouldn't have focused on individuals (he cannot feed on the Force directly). He prefers to target Force-sensitive individuals to satiate his hunger.

Point is that while he consumes, he also expends the energy performing various tasks and activities, and performing a drain on mass scale would require lot of energy and effort.

The instability is that he is not able to maintain energy within him properly, perhaps in part due to his condition.

Their are so many variables.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jan 4th, 2015 at 04:26 PM

Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 04:15 PM
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Angelalex242
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Old Post Jan 4th, 2015 04:33 PM
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