Plagueis makes a good point about how some of the ancient Sith Lords achieved immortality(kinda) but focused on worldly powers too much and ended up dying at some point. Plagueis on the other hand was on to something and had he lived longer, he and his apprentice would achieve immortality unlike any sith before them.
If Plagueis lived till the time of ROTJ, imagine the level of midi-chlorian manipulation he would reach. So, do you think Sidious denied himself immortality by betraying his master prematurely in this sense?
Those are obvious factors that caused Sidious' fall at the end, yes.
The whole point of this thread is to point out that there is another mistake(maybe) of Sidious that is prior to the things you've listed.
And this would not only give him immortality but also make him much more capable in the force. If the duo lived lets say for a century experimenting the force, they'd probably end up having reality warping powers.
Who's too say Plagueis wouldn't still die to Anakin or Luke as Sidious then? He's still an imbalance in the Force that has to be corrected. More powerful? Maybe. But the two factors that actually caused Sidious' demise are still there, and he's fully capable of ending them himself. Or was anyway.
"So, do you think Sidious denied himself immortality by betraying his master prematurely in this sense?"
Seems pretty clear to me. Sidious was still effectively immortal. So sure, I really don't get how this would matter.
Very possibly. It was pride and hubris that led him to kill his master: the same sins he rightly understood were the Jedi's downfall. So naturally they were his downfall, too.
But if he hadn't killed Plagueis, he would have been a different person, and events would have turned out very different. He would not have found himself on the death star with Vader and Luke and so he would not have made that particular mistake in this hypothetical alternate reality.
But if we accept the prophesy, then the return of balance to the force was inevitable, so he could either be part of that balance or be destroyed (to paraphrase Luke out of context). If he were a person who didn't kill his master, then maybe he could have developed the wisdom to become part of the balance. Who knows?
Seriously. If you look at it from a pure movie perspective, Luke and the drama going on in Palpatine's chambers had nothing to do with the battle going on outside. Even if Luke had fallen to the dark side, or even if Palpatine had simply killed him, Han and friends on Endor would still have disabled the shield generator, and Lando and Wedge still would have penetrated the Death Star's defenses and blown up its reactor.
Lando is the Hero of Star Wars.
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
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When Sidious died, the fleet got all derpy because his BM stopped taking effect.
I doubt the Death Star II would've been blown up if Sidious hadn't been thrown down that shaft by Vader.
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Sidious downfall was turning to the darkside. Throughout all of galactic history, no darkside user has met a happy end. Sooner or later, you're going to get destroyed by greed, over-ambition or arrogance. Sidious and Plagueis both died as a result of the last one. Decades of scheming, but little time to actually enjoy the fruits of your work. I would like to see a story where a darkside useer realizes this, gets genre savy and becomes a true neutral. Bane had the potential to realize and would have had he considered just how easy the rule of two system could fall apart.
Last edited by Dark-Kenshin on Feb 27th, 2015 at 03:31 AM