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Are Ground Commanders in SW underrated/underviewed?
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Zenwolf
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Registered: Dec 2013
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Are Ground Commanders in SW underrated/underviewed?

It occurs to me that, there's little recognition in regarding Ground Commanders in Star Wars. Most attention people seem to have, are Fleet Commanders...which is understandable, as there are many a space battles and for the most part that is what the movies show moreso than regular ground battles.

I feel though, are Ground Commanders underrated in their ability to take command of the battlefield?

This is disregarding the obvious characters that I know people will spell out, Grevious, Obi-Wan, etc.

I'm talking about guys like Maximum Veers, Carlist Rieekan, Janek Sunber, etc all of them have shown great ability in commanding troops, coming up with plans and coming out with victories...yet I feel as if this is overlooked.

I'm not saying these guys don't have information about their exploits and everything, what I'm saying or asking to everyone is.

Do you think Ground Commanders in general are underrated and or overlooked because space battles seem to take precedence?

Old Post Mar 30th, 2015 03:44 AM
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ILS
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Re: Are Ground Commanders in SW underrated/underviewed?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
I'm talking about guys like Maximum Veers, Carlist Rieekan, Janek Sunber
Who?

Also, it's possibly because in Star Wars a ridiculous number of large-scale ground military engagements play out like WW1 in terms of strategy.


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2015 03:49 AM
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Zenwolf
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Re: Re: Are Ground Commanders in SW underrated/underviewed?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ILS
Who?

Also, it's possibly because in Star Wars a ridiculous number of large-scale ground military engagements play out like WW1 in terms of strategy.


You know who silly!

I wouldn't say always, but even still, it can be fun to tell and it's not like the writers have to follow like WW1 engagements anyway. Eh...hopefully in the new stuff, we'll get more interesting battles.

Tbh I kinda always preferred the ground over space, because there's so much ground weaponry, different kinds of troops, etc and so on that things could get really interesting. With space, everything has already been shown pretty much.

Old Post Mar 30th, 2015 03:57 AM
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ILS
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I really don't care for space battles, and love ground battles. Which makes it pretty shitty when literally all we see, no matter what the era, medium or canon, is troops lining up and shooting until the other side is too dead to shoot. You see tactics in some TCW episodes and other sources where the focus is on a small group, but you're out of luck if you want to see an army fighting competently.


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2015 04:16 AM
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|King Joker|
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Old Post Mar 30th, 2015 04:21 AM
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FreshestSlice
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Considering most of the ones I know about are Jedi...maybe?

Old Post Mar 30th, 2015 05:50 AM
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Tzeentch
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My theory for why ground battles tend to get overshadowed in the Star Wars mythos is that weaving an effective narrative for such an event requires a better understanding of military tactics (or at least jargon) then describing dog fights does. It's relatively easy to write out a scene where a capital ship broadsides another ship and all you have to do is describe the damage as the ship gets systematically destroyed, or to illustrate dueling fighters as ship A tailing ship B and doing barrel rolls and shit. On the other hand, writing about large scale ground combat requires at least a modicum of understanding about things like reconnaissance, feints, flanks, chains of command, how armor and infantry interact with each other etc.

In general though, the "war" aspect of Star Wars has always played second fiddle to the soap opera drama. Compared to universes like Warhammer 40K, the characters themselves tend to receive most of the attention while the battles themselves are just a backdrop.


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Last edited by Tzeentch on Mar 30th, 2015 at 06:35 AM

Old Post Mar 30th, 2015 06:33 AM
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ILS
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thumb up


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2015 06:41 AM
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Zenwolf
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True Tzeen, that is true. But eh...I guess I just wanna see more awesome ground battles like how space ones are.


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2015 12:23 PM
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|King Joker|
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tzeentch
My theory for why ground battles tend to get overshadowed in the Star Wars mythos is that weaving an effective narrative for such an event requires a better understanding of military tactics (or at least jargon) then describing dog fights does. It's relatively easy to write out a scene where a capital ship broadsides another ship and all you have to do is describe the damage as the ship gets systematically destroyed, or to illustrate dueling fighters as ship A tailing ship B and doing barrel rolls and shit. On the other hand, writing about large scale ground combat requires at least a modicum of understanding about things like reconnaissance, feints, flanks, chains of command, how armor and infantry interact with each other etc.

In general though, the "war" aspect of Star Wars has always played second fiddle to the soap opera drama. Compared to universes like Warhammer 40K, the characters themselves tend to receive most of the attention while the battles themselves are just a backdrop.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ILS
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Old Post Mar 30th, 2015 01:25 PM
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Revanchiste
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Registered: Oct 2014
Location: France/Rezée (near Nantes)


 

Re: Are Ground Commanders in SW underrated/underviewed?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
It occurs to me that, there's little recognition in regarding Ground Commanders in Star Wars. Most attention people seem to have, are Fleet Commanders...which is understandable, as there are many a space battles and for the most part that is what the movies show moreso than regular ground battles.

I feel though, are Ground Commanders underrated in their ability to take command of the battlefield?

This is disregarding the obvious characters that I know people will spell out, Grevious, Obi-Wan, etc.

I'm talking about guys like Maximum Veers, Carlist Rieekan, Janek Sunber, etc all of them have shown great ability in commanding troops, coming up with plans and coming out with victories...yet I feel as if this is overlooked.

I'm not saying these guys don't have information about their exploits and everything, what I'm saying or asking to everyone is.

Do you think Ground Commanders in general are underrated and or overlooked because space battles seem to take precedence?


Fleet commander V.S fleet commander... Same budget fleet commander win...

The gournd forces are A PART OF THE FLEET. Capital ship often carri material for the ground invasion....

And ture tzeentch..... And yhea the old E.U even retcon this shit...

Last edited by Revanchiste on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 08:06 AM

Old Post Apr 2nd, 2015 08:04 AM
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Zenwolf
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Registered: Dec 2013
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Re: Re: Are Ground Commanders in SW underrated/underviewed?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Fleet commander V.S fleet commander... Same budget fleet commander win...

The gournd forces are A PART OF THE FLEET. Capital ship often carri material for the ground invasion....

And ture tzeentch..... And yhea the old E.U even retcon this shit...


No shit they are apart of the fleet, that isn't what I'm asking.

Old Post Apr 2nd, 2015 11:48 AM
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Ace Hambone
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Registered: May 2014
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tzeentch
My theory for why ground battles tend to get overshadowed in the Star Wars mythos is that weaving an effective narrative for such an event requires a better understanding of military tactics (or at least jargon) then describing dog fights does. It's relatively easy to write out a scene where a capital ship broadsides another ship and all you have to do is describe the damage as the ship gets systematically destroyed, or to illustrate dueling fighters as ship A tailing ship B and doing barrel rolls and shit. On the other hand, writing about large scale ground combat requires at least a modicum of understanding about things like reconnaissance, feints, flanks, chains of command, how armor and infantry interact with each other etc.

In general though, the "war" aspect of Star Wars has always played second fiddle to the soap opera drama. Compared to universes like Warhammer 40K, the characters themselves tend to receive most of the attention while the battles themselves are just a backdrop.


Well said!

I would add that in addition to being plot devices, Lucas primarily was interested in battles as spectacles. In space that meant giant warships, big explosions and as many fighters zipping around as technology would allow. On the ground it meant huge armies massed and colliding with one another.

Tactics in general aren't important except as plot devices. (How can we explain Obi Wan beating Anakin? Tactics! What's an example of a tactic? High ground! And wouldn't it be cool if in mirror fashion Sidious beats back Yoda because of the same tactical advantage? Cool! Never mind that anyone watching can see how those tactics could have easily been countered.)

Some of the EU authors might care more about tactics and battle plans for their own sake, but the movies have set the overall tone.

Old Post Apr 2nd, 2015 07:40 PM
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Revanchiste
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Registered: Oct 2014
Location: France/Rezée (near Nantes)


 

Re: Re: Re: Are Ground Commanders in SW underrated/underviewed?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
No shit they are apart of the fleet, that isn't what I'm asking.

Depend of the time and the faction...

Each fleet in the empire posses ground invasion stortroopers AT_TT AT_ST....

That's written...; If any fleet need an intervention on the ground they have storm troopers to do the pôlice jobs !!!!

Each ISD can carry ground troops..... The fleet in a war of movement is THE main toolThey are two different armies.... But in the same legion or battlion...

It's like a brigade.... The 501st : It's grounds forces + a fleet....

Ground forces are depent of the fleet... To evacuate the planet (Tactical retreat) to moove to invade other planet...

If the ground force where indepandant of the fleet.... How could they moove without being attacked? How could they land?

Acess to the ground = supplies = construction of space station etc = reperation. maintenance.

Yhea We can even retcon Lazy writning.. If we an call this lazy writning...

Anyway except when you sucessfully defend a planet without fleet support.... The fleet will always play a roll in the battle.... Supplies, fire support...

And to defend a planet with sucess... Even with massiv defenses a lot of tubolasers w-165 turbolaser.... The ennemy with good intell will always come with the fire power to take you down...

Again the tactic in the E.U justify the lack of epic ground battles....

Geonosis it was won thant to aclamotors and LAAT.. Mostly the artilerie n the ground doe quasi nothing...

And it justify more explosions etc etc...

Last edited by Revanchiste on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 10:40 PM

Old Post Apr 2nd, 2015 10:33 PM
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RexCloneWarsMVS
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Registered: Mar 2015
Location: US


 

Most of the known clone commanders and ARC's are the best commanders, cody for example, and rex.

Old Post Apr 6th, 2015 07:50 PM
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Revanchiste
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Registered: Oct 2014
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Cody O.K... But Rex? he is just a captain.... Most of the greatest ground commanders are Jedis..
Since well the first great galactic war.. According to Gnost dural timeline.

Old Post Apr 7th, 2015 07:32 PM
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RexCloneWarsMVS
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Cody O.K... But Rex? he is just a captain.... Most of the greatest ground commanders are Jedis..
Since well the first great galactic war.. According to Gnost dural timeline.
I'm talking about jedis

Old Post Apr 7th, 2015 08:59 PM
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RexCloneWarsMVS
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I meant I'm not talking about jedis im talking about non force sensitives

Old Post Apr 7th, 2015 09:00 PM
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Revanchiste
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Registered: Oct 2014
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Planetary assault tacticsEdit
TheHandOfGod-ESBHD

Death Squadron in the approach to Hoth.

Space navies were inherently hugely important in making planetary assaults, since they were the only forces that could clear the surrounding space and transport large surface armies. Inevitably, planets also deployed significant defenses, including planetary shields to resist bombardment, and planetary turbolasers, ion cannons, mines, and space defense platforms to fight back against invading fleets.[119]

Take this in your face tzeentch. I was right. Retconin your face.

Old Post May 24th, 2015 03:22 PM
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