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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Understanding the Nature of Force Ghosts & Sith Spirits


Understanding the Nature of Force Ghosts & Sith Spirits
Started by: Beniboybling

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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

Understanding the Nature of Force Ghosts & Sith Spirits

So I did a blog on ComicVine, there has been some discussion on this topic on the boards already, though my blog takes a much wider perspective.

Anyway read it tbh. Feedback is encouraged.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/be...th-spir/105225/

P.S. It's long (but riveting), so get comfortable.


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Old Post May 22nd, 2015 10:35 PM
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Nephthys
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Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End


 

Excellent thread, well argued.

The only thing I'm (continually) confused about is Talzin. According to her, she has no natural power over the Force. Baring this in mind I have no earthly clue how she does any of the things she does. Nor how she could fit into this theory.


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Old Post May 22nd, 2015 11:46 PM
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Selenial
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Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities


 

She says she doesn't use the force as Sith and Jedi do, I think she draws from the force energies around her.


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Old Post May 22nd, 2015 11:47 PM
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Nephthys
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Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End


 

Hmm. And I suppose she would maintain her self after the loss of her physical form in the same way?




And personally I still disagree about spirits being able to channel unlimited amounts of energy and and your other conclusions about their abilities, Beni. Heck, one of your examples:

“His power overwhelmed all inside the temple, and even now the workers plot against each other, believing themselves Sith Lords and drawing terrible power from Kallig himself.”

Directly contradicts the point you're making. I think Kallig was able to accomplish what he did because he was just that much of a baws. He was a rival to Tulak Hord for a reason, he was pretty stacked power-wise.

But I don't particularly want to debate you, just respectfully disagree.

Oh and also I figured that Ergast saying "ghosts may be bound and their strength borrowed, for a time.” was him alluding to the fact that Force Walking screws you over eventually. But maybe, maybe not.....


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Old Post May 23rd, 2015 12:13 AM
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Zamp
The Blind Critic

Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Haven


 

I didn't follow your discussion of the difference between cosmic and living force energy types. What is the significance of the bolded clause in the following line: "It can be folded or stretched, it can be felt and listened to, but it can’t be torn away from one’s own purposes" (emphasis mine).

If the cosmic Force can be folded, how is it static? I'm just not quite grasping what you mean. Other than this point, the introduction is well-written and shows a consistent vision. It is a well-formed fan-theory and worldbuilding is always fun. smile


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Old Post May 23rd, 2015 12:41 AM
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psmith81992
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You're still unable to grasp the difference between a dead spirit and a living one.


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Old Post May 23rd, 2015 01:13 AM
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Beniboybling
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Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
And personally I still disagree about spirits being able to channel unlimited amounts of energy and and your other conclusions about their abilities, Beni. Heck, one of your examples:

“His power overwhelmed all inside the temple, and even now the workers plot against each other, believing themselves Sith Lords and drawing terrible power from Kallig himself.”

Directly contradicts the point you're making. I think Kallig was able to accomplish what he did because he was just that much of a baws. He was a rival to Tulak Hord for a reason, he was pretty stacked power-wise.

But I don't particularly want to debate you, just respectfully disagree.

Oh and also I figured that Ergast saying "ghosts may be bound and their strength borrowed, for a time.” was him alluding to the fact that Force Walking screws you over eventually. But maybe, maybe not.....
Well fair enough, however as for the quote, it is still there own power, they are just more effective in several respects, and there is no limit to how much of their own power they can channel at any one time.

That said I had considered that Kallig may be that powerful, it still is an incredibly impressive feat but its possible he could be that strong.

But thanks very much for reading.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zampanó
I didn't follow your discussion of the difference between cosmic and living force energy types. What is the significance of the bolded clause in the following line: "It can be folded or stretched, it can be felt and listened to, but it can’t be torn away from one’s own purposes" (emphasis mine).

If the cosmic Force can be folded, how is it static? I'm just not quite grasping what you mean. Other than this point, the introduction is well-written and shows a consistent vision. It is a well-formed fan-theory and worldbuilding is always fun. smile
Well let me draw another analogy, lets say its like a tablecloth (with items on it), you can fold and stretch the tablecloth without disturbing the items on it, but if you rip the whole thing off everything going to go everywhere.

Likewise the very fabric or tablecloth of the galaxy can't be torn away willy nilly, but I'd infer there is an element of flexibility to it. But its still more static than the living Force, which can be used to do pretty much anything.

And thanks! Your readership is appreciated. stick out tongue

P.S. Folding the cosmic Force is pretty literal in regards to the fold space power, which is the literal act of folding space to cross distances/teleport.


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Last edited by Beniboybling on May 23rd, 2015 at 10:09 AM

Old Post May 23rd, 2015 10:05 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
I am LeGenD

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

Vitiate visited Dark Temple as well and even performed rituals inside it. And no spirit was able to overwhelm him.

Instead, Vitiate drained every captive within:

Burial place, prison, and reliquary, the Dark Temple was built on the orders of the Emperor to seal away powerful artifacts and the Emperor's enemies, both alive and dead. The temple became a nexus of dark side energy as the Emperor performed rituals within, drawing strength and knowledge from his captives.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Old Post May 23rd, 2015 11:44 AM
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Revanchiste
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Registered: Oct 2014
Location: France/Rezée (near Nantes)


 

Yhea great Idea !!!! I'll check !

Old Post May 23rd, 2015 01:59 PM
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Darth Luminous
kusemono

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Kashyyyk Shadowlands


 

Re: Understanding the Nature of Force Ghosts & Sith Spirits

quote: (post)


"It may seem strange that there are two different “types” of Force energy, which can only be used for certain things. After all it's all Force energy right? So how could they possess different properties?"

We already have precedent for such a concept in the light side and the dark side.

"You might find it strange that Qui-Gon says he is part of the living Force, when we have been told living things past into the cosmic Force upon death."

Not really - the idea is that Force ghosts have not "died" in the typical galactic-Muggle sense.

"Both of these events took place aboard space stations, far removed from the living Force"

I don't think it's especially meaningful to regard a space station as being far removed from the living Force, which presumably covers the whole galaxy.


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Last edited by Darth Luminous on May 24th, 2015 at 02:12 PM

Old Post May 24th, 2015 02:05 PM
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Revanchiste
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Registered: Oct 2014
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According to the Holonet, Jedis have repertoried 13 different type of manifestation of the force....
But It seem that it could have hundreds of forms....
And force spirits share basis, but are differents....

Old Post May 24th, 2015 02:11 PM
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Darth Luminous
kusemono

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Kashyyyk Shadowlands


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
The only thing I'm (continually) confused about is Talzin. According to her, she has no natural power over the Force. Baring this in mind I have no earthly clue how she does any of the things she does. Nor how she could fit into this theory.


The last season of TCW creates the impression that Talzin is somehow manipulating stolen Force energy ( green goo ) as opposed to channeling innate Force power in the way that a Jedi or Sith would. In this sense she can be seen as equivalent to a machine of sorts.


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Old Post May 24th, 2015 02:21 PM
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Beniboybling
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Re: Re: Understanding the Nature of Force Ghosts & Sith Spirits

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Luminous
"It may seem strange that there are two different “types” of Force energy, which can only be used for certain things. After all it's all Force energy right? So how could they possess different properties?"

We already have precedent for such a concept in the light side and the dark side.

"You might find it strange that Qui-Gon says he is part of the living Force, when we have been told living things past into the cosmic Force upon death."

Not really - the idea is that Force ghosts have not "died" in the typical galactic-Muggle sense.

"Both of these events took place aboard space stations, far removed from the living Force"

I don't think it's especially meaningful to regard a space station as being far removed from the living Force, which presumably covers the whole galaxy.
Those were rhetorical questions really. stick out tongue

As for the last part, the living Force isn't in fact everywhere, it's only in living things, or at least it only manifests in a way it can be perceived and felt in living things. Mother Talzin in fact, who spears to rely heavily on the living Force, found her powers weakened in remote locations like this.


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Old Post May 24th, 2015 02:36 PM
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Darth Luminous
kusemono

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Kashyyyk Shadowlands


 

Re: Re: Re: Understanding the Nature of Force Ghosts & Sith Spirits

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
As for the last part, the living Force isn't in fact everywhere, it's only in living things


It is presumably everywhere the Force is, and the Force is everywhere. It is generated by living things but exists outside of living things as well. Even between the rock and the ship.


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Last edited by Darth Luminous on May 24th, 2015 at 02:53 PM

Old Post May 24th, 2015 02:48 PM
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Revanchiste
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Registered: Oct 2014
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And what is force Aura?

Old Post May 24th, 2015 02:58 PM
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Darth Luminous
kusemono

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Kashyyyk Shadowlands


 

Re: Re: Re: Understanding the Nature of Force Ghosts & Sith Spirits

quote: (post)
Mother Talzin in fact, who spears to rely heavily on the living Force, found her powers weakened in remote locations like this.


Plo Koon didn't seem to have any difficulty using the Force in space; the same could be said for various characters from the EU. We've seen the Force used on a starship while in deep space even in the films.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Revanchiste
And what is force Aura?


Bonus to defense and saving throws.


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"Your focus determines your reality."

Last edited by Darth Luminous on May 24th, 2015 at 04:04 PM

Old Post May 24th, 2015 03:55 PM
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Beniboybling
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Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding the Nature of Force Ghosts & Sith Spirits

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Luminous
It is presumably everywhere the Force is, and the Force is everywhere. It is generated by living things but exists outside of living things as well. Even between the rock and the ship.
Sure but as cosmic Force energy.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Luminous
Plo Koon didn't seem to have any difficulty using the Force in space; the same could be said for various characters from the EU. We've seen the Force used on a starship while in deep space even in the films.
They are all themselves living things though. I suppose it depends on whether you believe the living Force comes from living things, or that living things come from the living Force. That issue of causation isn't really one I've considered by at the very least in space there is an absence of midichlorians, so a spirit is not going to be in a position to draw on the Force connections of others/life where none exists.

The implication being that Talzin's powers operate in a similar manner.


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Old Post May 24th, 2015 06:48 PM
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Revanchiste
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: France/Rezée (near Nantes)


 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aura_%28paranormal%29
I'm talking about this.. It is clear that force act sometimes like an Aura power....

AM I THE ONLY OE WHO HAVE EVER GUESSED THIS?

Aura = cosmic living things emotions history past future etc in the same time !!!

We can HEAVLY guess some force emchanic via OTHER MEDIAS like pokémon (Lucario) Wakfu, and plentyother media, sometimes featuring some concepts from japanesse culture... Ki ernegy etc...

Where did geroges Lucas find th concept of the force Jackasses????? In the deep east, of course !!!

There is so many medias, that we could rely on...
Aura powersshare so many similarity with the force !

Old Post May 25th, 2015 07:47 PM
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Darth Luminous
kusemono

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Kashyyyk Shadowlands


 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding the Nature of Force Ghosts & Sith Spirits

quote: (post)
Sure but as cosmic Force energy.


After looking around it seems that there is a difference of opinion on this topic. The scheme you describe may be plausible but I think there is another alternative.

quote: (post)
a spirit is not going to be in a position to draw on the Force connections of others/life where none exists.


I'm not so sure that a spirit needs to do so. Force ghosts, for example, may have transcended the need for midichlorians.


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Last edited by Darth Luminous on May 27th, 2015 at 03:07 PM

Old Post May 27th, 2015 03:04 PM
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