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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Kylo Ren's Lightsaber Skill


Kylo Ren's Lightsaber Skill
Started by: xPRIMEx

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xPRIMEx
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
Location:


 

Yo, I made a post on CV a explaining why Kylo Ren is actually a highly skilled lightsaber duelist. Check it out and lmk what you think.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/foru.../#js-message-22

Old Post Feb 26th, 2022 03:00 AM
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xPRIMEx
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
Location:


 

Not sure why a title wasn’t added to this thread but it should be “Kylo Ren’s lightsaber skill”

Old Post Feb 26th, 2022 03:04 AM
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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

Good stuff.

I'm still not quite sure where to place him as a swordsman, though. Maybe somewhere between ESB Luke and RotJ Luke?

IOW, above guys like GI, but still below Vader-tier. /shrug


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Old Post Feb 26th, 2022 02:01 PM
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xPRIMEx
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
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Thanks.

I’d say closer to ROTJ Luke and Vader. But yeah it’s hard to tell exactly how he stacks up to other Jedi/Sith. Once the Knights of Ren get more feats we’ll have a better idea, especially if they end up fighting Vader or the Inquisitors.

Last edited by xPRIMEx on Feb 26th, 2022 at 04:53 PM

Old Post Feb 26th, 2022 04:45 PM
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Sheev
The All-Sith

Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Exegol


 

If the KOR manages to get any legitimate skill showings against Vader I will be surprised.

But if they do then it will propel the skills of ST Luke to a ridiculous level, because of the ease in which he clowned the lot of them while holding back (he wasn't even trying to kill them).


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Old Post Feb 26th, 2022 05:09 PM
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xPRIMEx
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
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Well the version of Luke that fought the KOR should be well above Vader anyways

Old Post Feb 26th, 2022 06:30 PM
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Underachiever59
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Registered: Oct 2017
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I'm half expecting to see a few of the Knights of Ren die in the upcoming Crimson Reign comic. There's a couple of their number that were introduced in Crimson Reign who aren't present in The Rise of Kylo Ren or the ST. I'll honestly be surprised if they even cross paths with Vader, since Vader shouldn't be at his fortress. He's busy scouring the galaxy for any and all traces of Crimson Dawn.


For what it's worth to the discussion, the Knights of Ren aren't entirely featless. They rather easily destroyed an entire Sector Security team that outnumbered them by at least 3-to-1, without the assistance of their leader and without suffering any casualties.

They've also displayed capable Force abilities, such as physical augmentation (with multiple members demonstrating superhuman acrobatics and strength in the first few pages of Rise of Kylo Ren), enhanced senses (Ap'lek and Kuruk are both said to use the Force to heighten their senses to facilitate their preferred combat approaches) and telekinesis (Ap'lek and Ushar together were able to Force push Ben, and Cardo was barely affected by Ben's Force push, being simply knocked off his feet and immediately getting back up). It's also said that Vicrul strengthens his connection to the dark side every time he takes a life, and can use the Force to inflict fear in his enemies.

They definitely live up to their reputation as having "fighting skills and martial prowess without equal," at least when compared to more standard mooks in Star Wars. I'd consider the Knights of Ren more dangerous than any standard minions, such as Magnaguards, BX Commando Droids, Death Troopers, or Purge Troopers. They're only really a tiny bit below the Inquisitorious. Their Force powers, lightsaber-resistant weapons (by the time of TRoS), and displayed+stated combative skill should make them pretty formidable. Considering we've seen even Council-tier Jedi like Eeth Koth, Kit Fisto, Adi Gallia, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Anakin individually struggle against a handful of BX Commando Droids or Mangaguards, it should go without saying that the Knights of Ren would be a real challenge for low to mid Council-tier Jedi as well.


Personally, I'd put Kylo Ren at about the level of a mid-tier Council Member. He's not matching any of the greats like Yoda, Mace Windu, or Anakin. But He could probably give Eeth Koth, Adi Gallia, or Depa Billaba each a run for their money. And low-tier Council Members, as well as non-council Jedi Masters should largely be below him. Jedi like Aayla Secura, Luminara Unduli, Ima-Gun Di, Jocasta Nu, and Even Piell likely wouldn't stand much of a chance in a 1v1 against Kylo Ren.

Last edited by Underachiever59 on Feb 26th, 2022 at 09:59 PM

Old Post Feb 26th, 2022 09:55 PM
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Eli Vanto
Tactical Prodigy

Registered: Jan 2020
Location: Chiss Defense Fleet


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Underachiever59
They're only really a tiny bit below the Inquisitorious.
I think the Inquisitors would be well above the KOR overall.

It was said that the KOR would have been good stock to become Inquisitors (so they at least had that kind of potential), but they were untrained and couldn't use the force to nearly the same level as a Jedi or Sith. But the Inquisitors were all former Jedi and had that level of established training beforehand.


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2022 02:32 AM
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xPRIMEx
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Yeah a couple of the KOR featured in Crimson Reign are different than the ones we see in TROKR and TROS, so there will definitely be some casualties in the upcoming battle.

Old Post Feb 27th, 2022 02:37 AM
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xPRIMEx
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Underachiever59

Personally, I'd put Kylo Ren at about the level of a mid-tier Council Member. He's not matching any of the greats like Yoda, Mace Windu, or Anakin. But He could probably give Eeth Koth, Adi Gallia, or Depa Billaba each a run for their money. And low-tier Council Members, as well as non-council Jedi Masters should largely be below him. Jedi like Aayla Secura, Luminara Unduli, Ima-Gun Di, Jocasta Nu, and Even Piell likely wouldn't stand much of a chance in a 1v1 against Kylo Ren.

Maybe in terms of lightsaber skill. But in an all out battle I’d definitely favor Kylo over Eeth Koth, Adi Gallic, and Depa Billaba. I mean just by comparing Rey’s fight with Palpatine’s Guards to Depa Billaba’s death during order 66. Kylo and Rey are superior.

Old Post Feb 27th, 2022 02:40 AM
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Underachiever59
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Eli Vanto
I think the Inquisitors would be well above the KOR overall.

It was said that the KOR would have been good stock to become Inquisitors (so they at least had that kind of potential), but they were untrained and couldn't use the force to nearly the same level as a Jedi or Sith. But the Inquisitors were all former Jedi and had that level of established training beforehand.



I'm hesitant to say the Inquisitors were "well above" the Knights of Ren. Individual Inquisitors may have been, like the Grand Inquisitor, but average Inquisitors weren't terribly impressive (and neither are average Jedi in canon). Ahsoka had an easy enough time besting the Sixth Brother less than a year after the rise of the Empire, and was firmly of the belief that most fully trained Jedi would have little issue with an individual Inquisitor. We only know of one Inquisitor who made it to the rank of Jedi Master, and he got pretty swiftly shot down by a few clones.

Let's not forget that Kanan beat the Grand Inquisitor despite not completing his Padawan training. Cal Kestus beat the Nineth Sister around the same time he restored his abilities to what they had been as a Padawan, and beat the Second Sister immediately after being knighted. Ezra fought on par with the Fifth Brother, and by Malachor, was a match for the Seventh Sister. Kanan consistently displayed superiority to the Fifth Brother and Eighth Brother, with the Seventh Sister being the only Inquisitor of the trio to pose an actual challenge to him in Season 2. The Inquisitors may have technically been fully trained Jedi Knights before their fall, but they're probably some of the least impressive Jedi we've seen.


It's true that the Knights of Ren were relatively untrained in the use of the Force, but they still knew how to draw upon it. They could still perform superhuman leaps like most Jedi or Sith. They could still use the Force to enhance their senses and fight without needing to see (this was Ap'lek's preferred approach to combat, blinding his enemies with smoke grenades). They could still use telekinesis, even against other trained Force wielders like Ben Solo.


One of the things that makes the Knights of Ren such a dangerous fighting force, and also distinguishes them from the Inquisitorious, is their arsenal. Cardo alone is a one-man army, decked out with a heavy repeating blaster, flame projector, concussion grenades, and more. Kuruk's rifle could alternate between rapid-firing, sniping, and plasma rounds (similar to Chewie's bowcaster). Ushar's war club had a kinetite charge that would release concussive bursts when it struck a target, and also carried baradium charges to use as powerful explosives. Ap'lek wielded a Mandalorian executioner's vibro-ax made of beskar, meaning it would have many of the same properties as the beskar spear from The Mandalorian. Trudgen's vibrocleaver also had beskar filaments in it, which explains why it was undamaged after striking and parrying Ben Solo's lightsaber. And lastly, Vicrul's vibroscythe was made with a phrik alloy, protecting it from lightsaber strikes as well.

While none of these weapons are quite on par with the destructive potential of a lightsaber, their diverse array of weaponry does make them more practical when fighting as a collective unit. While Ushar, Ap'lek, Trudgen, and Vicrul can get up close and personal (able to fight even Jedi, thanks to their weaponry being lightsaber-resistant), Cardo can cut swaths of destruction with his heavy repeating blaster and flame projector, while Kuruk snipes problematic foes or enemy armor from a distance.


All that said, I obviously still hold the Inquisitorious above the Knights of Ren. But I hold the Knights of Ren far above other generic combatants like BX Commando Droids, Magnaguards, Purge Troopers, or even typical Mandalorian Warriors like Death Watch. The Knights of Ren, in my eyes, are much closer to Inquisitors than they are to any other generic group of combatants due to their Force sensitivity, heavy arsenal, and accolade of having "fighting skills and martial prowess without equal," (backed up by them wiping out an entire Sector Security squad that massively outnumbered them with zero casualties).



Honestly, I'm really annoyed with how wasted the Knights of Ren are, considering all we know about them just from the Visual Dictionary alone. They really should have been in more storytelling than a single 4-issue comic focused on Ben Solo. I'm glad we're finally getting a little more about them in Crimson Reign.

Last edited by Underachiever59 on Feb 27th, 2022 at 05:11 AM

Old Post Feb 27th, 2022 04:58 AM
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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

Yeah, the problem with the KoR as of now is that they have a scant few quantifiable showings, so it's hard to figure out where to place them as a collective. Hopefully that will change soon.

Certainly the most impressive among them was Ren himself. He used the Force to casually snap Tai's neck, and then proceeded to contend decently against Kylo before he was ultimately killed. Based on that, it seems fair to perhaps put Ren near GI's level, with the other members of the KoR falling below that to varying degrees.

Ultimately, I think that if you pitted the seven most powerful Inquisitors against the seven members of the KoR, the Inquisitors would definitely win, but incur a few casualties in the process... But again, that could certainly change(one way or the other) depending on the wank they receive in Crimson Reign.


__________________


"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Old Post Feb 27th, 2022 01:23 PM
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