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Possibility of Retro working on a Zelda title
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Ushgarak
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Possibility of Retro working on a Zelda title


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 02:05 PM
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Peach
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Ehh.

I don't see Nintendo letting them make the huge changes that Zelda really needs at this point - the series is too much of a cash cow and we've already seen that they don't like taking risks much with their biggest franchises.

Not really convinced by this at all, nor hugely interested.


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Last edited by Peach on Dec 15th, 2011 at 02:28 PM

Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 02:24 PM
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Smasandian
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That would be cool.

I'm never going back to Zelda unless Nintendo does something completely different.

Having Retro take a shot would be a very good thing.

Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 02:30 PM
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Ushgarak
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Peach
Ehh.

I don't see Nintendo letting them make the huge changes that Zelda really needs at this point.


Well, if you look at what happened with Metroid, Nintendo saw Prime as a spin-off rather than part of the main series (with Other M not even acknowledging Prime existed).

If they do the same here, that may give more leeway for changes.

Donkey Kong Country Returns was a straight series continuation, of course, so it can go either way, though DKC was Rare's baby anyway.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

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Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 02:34 PM
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Peach
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Well, Metroid also was no longer the major series it used to be, and even in it's prime (hah, hah) it never could hold a candle to Zelda, so there was also much less to lose for letting them make some big changes to it.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 02:41 PM
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Ushgarak
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So what kind of huge changes are you interested in?


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 02:42 PM
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Peach
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First and foremost, I want a game where you actually play as Zelda. She's the freaking title character - why is she always relegated to a bit role? Why can't she be the hero of the story for a change?

Beyond that, I'd like to see the traditional "go from dungeon to dungeon" setup that they've used in Zelda from the very beginning shaken up a bit.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 02:46 PM
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Ushgarak
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Well I can agree there. Zelda needs to stop being useless as well.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 02:53 PM
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Cyner
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I disagree with Peach's statement that Nintendo is not willing to take risks with the franchise.

moving from 2D to 3d, letting capcom take a shot at two of the hand held titles, making both TP and SS motion controlled, the touch screen focused Zelda titles for DS. Seems to me that they have been taking risks with it.

I'm really hoping they let Retro have a go at it, I'd like to see a western interpretation of the LoZ gameplay and characters.

Also one of the things that I liked about SS is the large role that Zelda herself plays in the story, sure she isn't playable but her role is arguably just as important in the context of the story.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 03:02 PM
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Peach
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I mean, that's been something that's annoyed me since I was a kid. I'm playing a game where the title character is a character in the game (usually)...but you can't play as her and she usually has a very small role in the game itself?

Yeah, no. I want to play as Zelda, damnit.

quote:
I disagree with Peach's statement that Nintendo is not willing to take risks with the franchise.

moving from 2D to 3d, letting capcom take a shot at two of the hand held titles, making both TP and SS motion controlled, the touch screen focused Zelda titles for DS. Seems to me that they have been taking risks with it.


I don't count those as really taking risks; they were things they had to do for the most part. Going from 2D to 3D was basically required to keep up with other games when making the jump to the N64; and saying that using motion-controls for a system that is...based on motion controls, and touch-screen controls for a system where the touch-screen is a huge part of it are risks is just ridiculous. That's not risk-taking, that's having to use the tech that you created for your games.

Letting Capcom do those three games (not two) was a risk, but there wasn't anything in Minish Cap or the Oracle games that really changed things or shook up anything at all. They're just standard Zelda.


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Last edited by Peach on Dec 15th, 2011 at 03:05 PM

Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 03:02 PM
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Ushgarak
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cyner
Also one of the things that I liked about SS is the large role that Zelda herself plays in the story, sure she isn't playable but her role is arguably just as important in the context of the story.


But she was still useless. She was not acting as a hero. She couldn't fight, needed protecting throughout, her one plot contribution was [SPOILER - highlight to read]: to sleep for a long time and then she gets instantly kidnapped at the end and has to rest the final fight out.

The most useless Zelda for a while, in fact. She may have missed much of TP, but there she was presented as someone in an interesting dilemma and she actively helped you fight at the end. Spirit Tracks even noted and subverted the passive Zelda stereotype by mentioning it and then having her aid you throughout, but then cocked up the implementation by having her afraid of rats, placing her back firmly in the 'dependant female' category. I hoped Skyward Sword would bring her out more as a useful character, but instead they hurtled back in the other direction.

Zelda needs to be a proper protagonist.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Last edited by Ushgarak on Dec 15th, 2011 at 03:12 PM

Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 03:06 PM
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Cyner
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spoiler tags much?

I disagree because... [SPOILER - highlight to read]: She went into the forest dungeon by herself, somehow made it to the end and purified herself there. Then made it all the way to Eldin before being captured and rescued by Impa. But before any of this she(Hylia) was the one who sealed Demise and set the entire story into motion.


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Last edited by Cyner on Dec 15th, 2011 at 03:15 PM

Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 03:07 PM
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Ushgarak
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I tried to leave it vague, but very well.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 03:11 PM
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[SPOILER - highlight to read]: And yet, again, she needed rescuing the moment she landed down below! And she is not the same person as Hylia, obviously; Hylia had the power of a Goddess.

She is presented, constantly, as unable to fend for herself and her role in the plot is extremely passive.

I mean, nevermind even Twilight Princess, even Ocarina gave her a much more proactive plot role. I have no idea why they have brought her so far backwards as a character.


__________________



"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Last edited by Ushgarak on Dec 15th, 2011 at 03:34 PM

Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 03:30 PM
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Smasandian
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Peach
I mean, that's been something that's annoyed me since I was a kid. I'm playing a game where the title character is a character in the game (usually)...but you can't play as her and she usually has a very small role in the game itself?

Yeah, no. I want to play as Zelda, damnit.



I don't count those as really taking risks; they were things they had to do for the most part. Going from 2D to 3D was basically required to keep up with other games when making the jump to the N64; and saying that using motion-controls for a system that is...based on motion controls, and touch-screen controls for a system where the touch-screen is a huge part of it are risks is just ridiculous. That's not risk-taking, that's having to use the tech that you created for your games.

Letting Capcom do those three games (not two) was a risk, but there wasn't anything in Minish Cap or the Oracle games that really changed things or shook up anything at all. They're just standard Zelda.


I agree. Using a different control scheme isn't a risk.

I think the wording, "standard Zelda" is basically what I think needs to change. Every entry in the series (including handhelds and 2D) are all roughly the same. You get the same weapons, the usual enemy types, the usual dungeons, fetch quests and etc. The only thing that really changes is the visual design.

Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 03:37 PM
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Peach
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Also, I want voice acting already. The silent protagonist thing is getting old. Get with the times, Nintendo, and start voicing your damn games.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 03:49 PM
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Cyner
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To me Zelda certainly was a strong character. Even unable to defend herself against powerful monsters she still braved the danger and had the courage to go through with some very tough decisions. She was endearing but not weak in personality and certainly not the cardboard cut out we see in every other game.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 04:09 PM
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Smasandian
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Peach
Also, I want voice acting already. The silent protagonist thing is getting old. Get with the times, Nintendo, and start voicing your damn games.


Yeppers, I want as well.

If Mass Effect can have extremely well voiced characters and have the amount of voice work that is needed, a Zelda game could easily been done and be great as well.

Silent protagonist only works (barely) when it's a first person view.

Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 04:51 PM
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ScreamPaste
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cyner
To me Zelda certainly was a strong character. Even unable to defend herself against powerful monsters she still braved the danger and had the courage to go through with some very tough decisions. She was endearing but not weak in personality and certainly not the cardboard cut out we see in every other game.
Hell yes.

SS Zelda is best Zelda, imho. Most well developed of any Zelda so far, barring maybe Tetra, but far more likable than Tetra. Besides...

I was getting really sick of her helping me in the final battles. no expression Give *me* the light arrows, so *I* can shoot them, FFS, lol.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Peach
Also, I want voice acting already. The silent protagonist thing is getting old. Get with the times, Nintendo, and start voicing your damn games.


Nah. I don't think voice acting would improve the games at all. The way it's done with emotive sounds is fine, and I think it's better than having Link's voice forced on me. Sort of how nothing is scarier than your own imagination, no voice will sound better for a character than the one you imagined yourself.

Can already imagine Zelda's VA trying to put on snooty airs or something.

But yes, with Retro working on this, I am excited.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2011 10:45 PM
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General Kaliero
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Voice everyone but Link. It worked for Half-Life.

I think if LoZ is to tell deeper, more interesting stories, and break out of its mold and truly try to feel new, it needs to embrace voice acting.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2011 05:28 AM
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