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Elizabeth - And her "oh so vicious cycle of emotions" (Spoilers)
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LovelyOne
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Elizabeth - And her "oh so vicious cycle of emotions" (Spoilers)

I can actually understand Liz's dramatic decision a whole lot more now. Through out the entire movie her mind was racing with alot of things at once..She had feelings for Jack.. she also had trust issues with him and she was ALSO battling with denial and what her heart wanted (Jack) and what her brain wanted(Will)..

She had a vicious cycle thing going on in the movie look at what happens with the scenes:

Sexual suggestion scene:
She obviously trusts him at this point.
1. Feelings for Jack (smiling)
2. Denial her heart Vs Brain (Norrington questions her feelings)
3. Her trust in him is questioned (Norrington questions the trust)
4. her heart is hurt = BAD = Jack doesn't "care about her" (compass pointed to Jack she THINKS it means that he left will)
5. Good for the brain Gives her reason not to be with him.

Curiosity
1. Jack "proves" she can trust him again. (pulls away)
2. Feelings develop more ( she's got the trust back but she's really caught in the moment with Jack)
3. Denial her Heart Vs Brain (is she really happy he pulled away?)

Beach Scene
1. Her trust in him is questioned (finds out what happened with will)
2. Her heart is hurt = BAD = Jack Doesn't "care about her"
3. Good for her brain gives her reason not to be with him.
4. He Gains trust again (she thinks he's going to stay and fight)
5. Feelings develop even more
6. Denial, heart Vs Brain(although you don't see it this time, Just assuming..)

End Scene
1. Her trust in him is questioned (he escapes)
2. Heart is really hurt this time = BAD = Jack doesn't "care about her"
3. Good for the brain gives her reason not to be with him
4. He gains her trust again spectacularly
5. Feelings for him develop to a climax (end scene, clings to his leg..major gratitude, he's her hero now)
6. Denial Heart Vs Brain (more vicious battle this time, THIS is the moment to decide)

HERE is where the Battle ends, there is no reason for her to not have him now..He has just proved to her that she can always have trust in him. The battle between what her heart wants and what her brain is telling her to do comes to an end..The brain wins over on the spur of the moment. She has to get rid of what her heart wants. Remove the temptation..she's forcing herself to stick with Will..even if its not what her heart truly wants.. She's not willing to accept a life with Jack.... yet.

She realizes later that she has chosen poorly..That was not the right answer to her "problem" with Jack. She feels no better that he's gone..In fact I think she realises that she has just got rid of what her heart really wants and she misses him to no end. "You don't know what you've got till its gone"

I can totally understand why she did it at the end..she was an emotional time bomb..she's young..she's never felt like this before. Her brain and heart are batteling viciously throughout the entire movie..She thinks she trusts him one minute and is then really hurt that he tricks her..then he brain is happy that there might not be a chance..then OH theres a chance again..POOR LIZ laughing out loud

Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 29th, 2006 at 01:14 PM

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 12:59 PM
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katelovespirate
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i love this. girls always have to be analyzed like this, because we do not stay consistent on the way we think about things.

YEAH TOTALLY with Liz, it is a cycle. throw Will and her "sense of honor" and even perhaps what she "thinks she deserves"... and no wonder she is always frowning and looking confused.

Yeah i think the beach scene is VERY telling: with liz running up to kiss Will, and then we get a shot of Jack's face... and then Jack gets her back by saying everything he said to her (/flirting, etc) was a lie.... which it wasnt, but there is some subtle fighting going on there...

hahaha. poor liz. hopefully she can get out of this cycle, make a choice, and go with it in the 3rd one. i just fear she will make the marriage choice and regret it...

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 02:18 PM
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LovelyOne
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Yes smile

In every Jack/ Liz/ Will moment you can see with the Mise en Scene, The dialogue, the facial expressions and her behaviour that ALL of these emotions as said above are running through her head ALL the time...Must have been one battle..I can totally sympathise with her in the end to be honest..she was probably just so overrun with emotions she just wanted it to end laughing out loud

the fact she went with her brain this time might mean she goes with her HEART next time eek!

Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 29th, 2006 at 02:36 PM

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 02:27 PM
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katelovespirate
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she'd better. when you put it that way, its much more Disney to go with your heart...smile

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 02:31 PM
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LovelyOne
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Thats very true^^ big grin

Also no note..your similarity with the opening scene of CotBP and whats happened in the next movie..

Her reaction towards Jack when he grabs her is basically "should I be scared?....or should I be excited?" and it echos what her emotions are in this movie big grin. It also Echo's Jack's..his smug look on his face "look I've got your girl!" is exactly what happens in the next one with his character..

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 02:38 PM
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katelovespirate
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yeah and Jack is rooting for Norrington because he sees Norrington has wayyyyyy less competition that Will, cause he basically accosting Lizzie right in front of Norrington in that scene, and N cant do a thing about it.

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 02:41 PM
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Archangelysses
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by katelovespirate
i love this. girls always have to be analyzed like this, because we do not stay consistent on the way we think about things.


The truth shall set you free, or imprison you even further.

Elizabeth LOVES Will but she is IN LOVE with Jack and that is the difference

Would you not agree?

To admit the truth of being in love with Jack only imprisons her further in the turmoil of her emotions and the choice that will greatly affect the loser.

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 05:38 PM
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Archangelysses
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it is the old saying though

A CHOICE CANNOT BE MADE IF THERE IS NO CHOICE TO MAKE

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 06:07 PM
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LovelyOne
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What do you mean?^^

I also think that her agreeing to go and get Jack back shows us that its not like she never wants to see him again..she realises how selfish and stupid her earlier decision was..If she was really interested in leaving Jack forever then she wouldn't be going back to get him..she wants him back.

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 06:30 PM
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Archangelysses
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The saying was in relation to her emotional reasoning of chaining Jack to the Pole. By eliminating him she doesn't have to choose.

which by itself is a choice

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 06:35 PM
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LovelyOne
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Oh yes I see laughing out loud thanks.

Its going to come back and bite her in the ass later thats for sure.

It obviously wasn't about her saving Will and the others because she agrees to basically go back and get him. Which would mean Davy will STILL be after them It was alll about her selfishly not wanting to have to make a choice later..

Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 29th, 2006 at 06:46 PM

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 06:44 PM
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Archangelysses
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Exactly,

(No offense intended) I have met a lot of women who do tend to make decisions whilst emotional that come back to bite them.

LIZ AND JACK, looking at it, Liz and Will fought for each other in the first

In this one, Will is more for his father now and Liz is more for Jack, and we know that it was Liz that Jack turned around for, no one else.

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 07:09 PM
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LovelyOne
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Archangelysses
Exactly,

(No offense intended) I have met a lot of women who do tend to make decisions whilst emotional that come back to bite them.

LIZ AND JACK, looking at it, Liz and Will fought for each other in the first

In this one, Will is more for his father now and Liz is more for Jack, and we know that it was Liz that Jack turned around for, no one else.


Yeh I totally agree with you. It was obvious that Disney knew people would get bored with the whole Will/Liz thing they needed to spice it up a bit they needed to give the characters new purpose..and I have to admit..towards the end of the last film..I felt as if..yes she has Will..but I would like to see a Liz Jack thing go down later..Now that is has..I'm STILL hoping for more Jack/Liz..they just work on screen alot better than Will/Liz..If it didnt work then there wouldn't be this amount of excitemnt over it..its what people were dying to see since movie one laughing out loud I'm really happy will has a new distraction..otherwise his character would become pointless...especially if it was all still about him and Liz in this one..

Jack came back for her yes. More than everyone else. That whole last scene was ALL about him coming back for her and how he and she felt because of it. I believe that the compass was pointing to Liz the whole time that he thought it was broken..we dont get to see it directly because Liz has it..the only time we do see it point directly at her is when they are on the beach..he looks at it and it moves from him (where she last looked) back to Liz. Also. Jack would have done the right thing anways..him looking at the compass was to almost prove the point that he went back for Liz to the audience..in my opinion anyway..

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 07:18 PM
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Archangelysses
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Jack wants a partner/equal. he needs someone like Liz to keep his edge, to push him out of his comfort zone and propel him forward.

Will was what she wanted when she sought escape from her life of preordained destiny. (Grow up, be trophy wife, boring boring boring)

However, it is clear that it is Jack that gets under her skin and pricks her feelings. Funny, that sounds a lot like the basic rules of attraction. Plus every girl loves the badman/pirate/rebel/scoundrel.

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 07:31 PM
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katelovespirate
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Archangel, you seem to fit right in with us! thanks for your awesome thoughtss. it all makes tons of sense.
I totally agree that she loves Will and is IN LOVE with Jack. thats beautiful smile

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 07:52 PM
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Archangelysses
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Don't tell me i'm starting to understand women.


That will have my death warrant signed.






FOr was it not written that he who understand the female mind will be drawn and quartered, hung, shot, poisoned and stoned to death for knowing toooooo much.

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 08:21 PM
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Archangelysses
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stick out tongue

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 08:21 PM
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LovelyOne
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I think we have out first Male Jack/Liz groupie laughing out loud

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 08:38 PM
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Archangelysses
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cool

And we all get to see it

ROFL I like to watch

Old Post Jul 29th, 2006 08:55 PM
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lovethemtigers
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
I think we have out first Male Jack/Liz groupie laughing out loud


Girls, you know I've always been a big Liz/Jack supporter since the first Pirate movie....and my heart is breaking...because honestly I don't think it's going to happen. You all know I've analyzed all these points with you all, I've even had my own fantasies about "3". I mean, I want it to happen with all my heart, and I can tell you right now, unless they just do an outstanding job, I can't see me being a big fan of POTC 3 without the pairing of Jack and LIz....but based on some things I'm reading over the past 24 hours I'm not so sure Jack and Elizabeth are going to end up together....In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if all our points and ponders were all just figments of our imagination.....maybe it was just Crazy Old Jack flirting with a young girl....maybe she was just using Jack to get him to lead her to Will.....maybe we have it all wrong....maybe the compass pointed to Jack because he had the answers to where to find Will....NAH.....I just can't buy it - see I keep flip-flopping cuz I love Jack and Liz together so much - cuz it's so hot to watch sexy Jack come on to a woman - not just any woman though, Elizabeth....but, I just can't let myself keep getting all worked up just to be let down in a major way next May...Sorry to be a party pooper = that's just a grim feeling i've assumed today...

Old Post Jul 30th, 2006 12:19 AM
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