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LovelyOne
Senior Member
 Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
Divine Intervention - Tia/Calypso (possible spoilers)
I said this in another thread but I think we should start a new one up based on this theme because we keep going off topic in other ones lol
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There is a huge theme in this movie about fate, divine intervention, certain events that happen in order for something else to happen later..and only one person is behind making all of this happen..Tia..and she's using Beckett to help her it seems.
You also have to look at the fact they are introducing a character called Calypso. The goddess of the sea.
This is a Greek goddess. And the only other story I have ever seen her in is the Odyssey written in ancient times..and what we actually see emotionally happen to Jack basically mirrors what happened to Odysseus when it came to being around women...she basically changed his whole perspective of them and how he should behave around them..and hello what do we see happen to Jack in DMC?..Oh and by the end of it? Jack chooses Penelope instead of immortality with Calypso LOL..the Odyssey was all about fate intervening..and gods goddesses making things happen so that othe things can happen to mortals etc..making Odysseus end up in certain places..and in the end..even making him change his attitudes towards women around...
..and when you look at ancient Greek literature..the most interesting ones are the Greek tragedies..and they are ALL based around fate of mere mortals and what people choose to do.. and how divine providence affects what they do etc..(we actually hear Ragetti SAY these two words in the long boat "I say it was divine providence that got us out of jail")
The main theme in ALL of these ancient stories is about how controlling the gods can be when they want certain events to happen in the lives of mere mortals..
Tia is probably making events happen so that certain emotions can arise through Jack/Liz/Will that are THERE anyway and she knows this..thats why it fits perfectly into her plan IMO....she cant make them love or hate by using her powers etc..cuz she's only the goddess of the sea not love..or war..and on top of that she's trapped in human form.so she's not controlling the kracken or Davy or anything..all she has is her overseeing powers at the moment IMO..and so she's making events happen s so that characters will be in certain places emotionally/physically when something else happens later...She's defiantly trying to make something happen in the future and I think Beckett is in on the deal...because one of the single most important events appears to be breaking Will and Elizabeth up...and he is the only one with legal power to stop the wedding..and he then even says two things that suggests he knows about their futures and how he is intervening in it..
I read so many tragedies in college..and honestly..this whole fate, intervention theme..and all the events we see happen? and how Tia appears to be behind them all.. Its all leading to tragedy for one character..and IMO its Will.
and when I say tragedy..It means two things..something tragic happens to him(dramatic realization) and then he does something incredibly stupid either to himself or someone else...or even both..
Oedipus...look up that name and read about him lol..it aint pretty
I think Will is heading for a similar fate.."you have a touch of DESTINY about you William Truner" - Tia
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 16th, 2006 at 02:37 PM
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Sep 16th, 2006 02:23 PM |
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Jaeh
Possibly here.
 Gender: Female
Location: May or may not be somewhere else. |
ooh.. this is exciting...
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HIS force be with you.
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Sep 16th, 2006 02:25 PM |
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Jacky Sparrow
Pirate!
 Gender: Female
Location: Germany |
yes, I totally agree with you!
there are so many actions that happen only because of fate I think (for example, when the reach Tortuga, how is it possible that Norri, Liz and Jack are all there at the same time)
In my opinion Beckett wants/needs/takes Tia's help to split up those two because HE wants the influence of the Governor and if Liz marries Will, Will will become the Governor and so he can't get the power he wanted
and with the touch of destiny she indicates this all. why else should she say this? and up till now there is no real destiny happened, he just met his father but I think that was not the thing she was referring to because when she says that she looks troubled, has anyone noticed that?
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Last edited by Jacky Sparrow on Sep 16th, 2006 at 02:43 PM
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Sep 16th, 2006 02:33 PM |
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Jaeh
Possibly here.
Gender: Female
Location: May or may not be somewhere else. |
I think i did... I think...
and nice sig Jacky..
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HIS force be with you.
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Sep 16th, 2006 02:40 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
OMG!! you are totally on the same wavelength as me..Beckett wants to STOP pirates..and if Will becomes Governor?? the way he is at the moment??? HELL NO..Beckett needs to make this man change and not care about anyone but himself..although I think he will redeem himself and he will get his father in th end...he WONT DESERVE LIZ..thats for sure IMO..especially with this tragic ending..and it doesn't mean tragic for him..it means he's the one causing tragedy for other people..but it can be a bit of both.
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Sep 16th, 2006 02:42 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
Oh and Jacks death?? No that wasnt his sealed fate..this was a mere event leading up to what ever his fate may be in movie 3..we will probably learn in movie 3 how important that moment of death was in order for his fate to unfold.
The audience sees that Tia had the means to bring Jack back in her hut before Jack even WENT TO SEE HER  the woman is PLOTTING something
Think!"! if she knew about his death then WHY did she not say a WORD to Jack?..because its her plot to make him die and come back..and its going to be very signifiant to future events in movie 3.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 16th, 2006 at 02:50 PM
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Sep 16th, 2006 02:47 PM |
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Jacky Sparrow
Pirate!
Gender: Female
Location: Germany |
yes, what make me wonder is another thing, when governor swann asks beckett what he wants, then he says, the authority of him, the influence in london and his loyalty?
LORD CUTLER BECKETT
Your authority as governor, your influence
in London, and your loyalty to the East
India Trading Company.
and a bit later he says to mercer something like, every person has a price and even for what he hopes never to sell, does that mean he wants Lizzie too? or lose lizzie to jack??I don't understand what he wants to say with that?? I don't he just refers to the authority.
LORD CUTLER BECKETT
So you see, Mercer, every man has a
price he will willingly accept. Even
for what he hopes never to sell.
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Last edited by Jacky Sparrow on Sep 16th, 2006 at 02:55 PM
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Sep 16th, 2006 02:51 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
WOW great find!
well in movie 3 she gets kidpaped by Norrington and the EITC company...Tia probably told him she would be pn Sao Feng's ship at a certain time etc...
and when you look at how the story of the heart overshadows Liz's in movie 2..you get a glimpse of whats gonna happen in the beginning of movie 3..you can see that it gets kidnapped by norrington from the Jar if Dirt (sao feng's ship) and ends up in a sack in front of Bekett
but Liz's heart belongs to one man and one man alone..and it was the one who actually unlocked it in movie 2, JACK!
I cant understand why he would want Elizabeth..maybe to use to hurt Jack?..make him do things and threaten her life if he doesnt?
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 16th, 2006 at 02:59 PM
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Sep 16th, 2006 02:56 PM |
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Jacky Sparrow
Pirate!
Gender: Female
Location: Germany |
yes, but what else is he then referring? I mean we don't know what Jack has done to him and maybe it is then a revenge for that, or so. Perhaps he wants the influence and a beautiful woman, but what makes me wonder, he knows that Lizzie is a pirate, think on the meeting with the pistol. So I don't know WHY he says that!
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Sep 16th, 2006 03:01 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
So you see, Mercer, every man has a
price he will willingly accept. Even
for what he hopes never to sell.
.
OMFG!! you just picked up on something amazing by finding that line!! Its about Jack and how he will probably give up certain things when it comes to Elizabeth and ONLY Elizabeth..certain things he LOVES because he loves that person MORE "she's only a ship mate" for ELIZABETH 
I found it strange how Mercer LET Liz go off with Jack on the pearl..and Norrington..OMG Beckett is TOTALLY in league with Tia...
SO THAT means in the future.. Bekett thinks he can use Liz to make Jack "weak.."..he can use her to threaten Jack..because jack will give up certain things when it comes to Elizabeth.
but Oh no this dudes wrong..when Liz is in danger??? Jack will kill the shit out of you
Tia still needs her end of the deal once Beckett is done with Jack...
which is making him immortal to be with her..but she's totally underestimating just how much Elizabeth means to him...Tia thinks she's making Jack HER hero.and probably thinks Jack would drop Liz in an instant if it comes to accepting immortality..she couldn't be more wrong..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 16th, 2006 at 03:22 PM
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Sep 16th, 2006 03:09 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
This actually contradicts itself.. I dont think tia can see the future..she just sees the future she is making/plotting..so she thinks jack will choose her but i bet he doesn't because of what we saw in the Odyssey with Calypso and Odysseus..it had very similar circumstances..
because divine intervetion means that she is changing the future to something else..
She probably knew the Kraken was going to get Jack..but she uses that to her advantage..and changes how it originally would have played out..by adding Will/Liz into the equation
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 16th, 2006 at 03:32 PM
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Sep 16th, 2006 03:28 PM |
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Jacky Sparrow
Pirate!
Gender: Female
Location: Germany |
oh, it wasn't finding...it was in my head after I've seen it the first time, maybe because I was wondering about that.
Yes, I think that they have a deal too.
and yes, what I found incredibly interesting, what you said, that Jack will give up things... but I think that Beckett will use Liz in another way, I don't think it'll be to give up the piracy...I think something more evil.
And we say the whole time, that Tia knows everything, but why not that Jack loves Liz more then to take the offer. (I hope you understand that)
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Sep 16th, 2006 03:28 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
yes I agree..its gonna be more evil
yeh I dont think Tia knows everything..or she might..and Jack might actually end up with Tia/Calypso..but I really cant understand that because what we see happen to Odysseus emotionally when it comes to being with calypso or not pretty much mirrors what's happening to Jack being with calypso or not.
So yeah..pretty confusing lol..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 16th, 2006 at 03:46 PM
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Sep 16th, 2006 03:42 PM |
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Jacky Sparrow
Pirate!
Gender: Female
Location: Germany |
Uh, I don't think he'll end up with Tia, that makes no sense and don't argue against you own theories, I love them!!!
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Sep 16th, 2006 03:47 PM |
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katelovespirate
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: |
questions...
is tia calypso? or not? is that a completely different character? do they say who is playing her?
i like all the ideas about greek myths... oedipus... etc.... but i dont think any of the 3 main characters are going to have a completely tragic ending. i think will will probably get pretty dark but get better again at the end. thats just me though.
and i still dont think beckett and tia are in league.
beckett is representing an entirely different force/dynamic in the caribbean.
i DO think the fact that Tia wasnt surprised when Jack died has meritt...
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Sep 16th, 2006 03:47 PM |
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Jacky Sparrow
Pirate!
Gender: Female
Location: Germany |
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Sep 16th, 2006 03:51 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
Yes katelovespirate but how does Bekett know so much about the magical compass?
Jack only lets his closest friends in on that little secret because he trusts them...and then we learn that the only other person who knows about it is Tia herself because she made it
They seriously have spoken before hand IMO
Tia is not a real person she is a goddess trapped in a womans body so she probably could care less about what happens to pirates in the future..she probably cares only about what happens to Jack..so she makes a deal with Beckett
there have been confirmed spoilers about Jack being with Tia..and then this makes Davy angry because she was once calypso..and was his lover..I dont think Jack stlole her when she was calypso because that was yonks before he was born...she basically just left davy..and the only man she could actually be infatuated with was Jack Sparrow
which is why IMO Will doesnt have a chance now that Liz has kissed Jack..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 16th, 2006 at 04:05 PM
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Sep 16th, 2006 03:54 PM |
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Jacky Sparrow
Pirate!
Gender: Female
Location: Germany |
yes, totally agreed!!! I think the always believe that Jack steals women but like we have seen with Lizzie, she is the one who chooses spontanous to kiss him. Maybe she'll try to convince Will that Jack has no blame on taking Liz away, but Will doesn't want to believe that.
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Sep 16th, 2006 04:06 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
YES thats the whole deal..Jack never steals anyone..they just fall head over heals for him..and he actually does care about Liz in returm..I'm not sure if he really did want to give up his "freedom" to be with tia in the past..With Liz..he actually is..and when I say freedom..he's not really giving up his freedom when he accepts Liz in his life..thats the whole message..it actually made him more free.
and its all too strange how Bekett MADE it so the wedding was stopped..could he have not done it before hand?? or afterward? if it was REALLY about them letting Jack escape like a YEAR beforehand...no he makes that wedding stop and says "fate intervenes" he must have learned something a little too late when it comes to Will/Liz in the future..and he obviously learned it from Tia..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 16th, 2006 at 04:13 PM
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Sep 16th, 2006 04:07 PM |
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Jacky Sparrow
Pirate!
Gender: Female
Location: Germany |
"and says "fate intervenes" he must have learned something a little too late when it comes to Will/Liz in the future.."
huh? that makes no sense to me. what do you want to say? but he was early enough to stop the wedding, or what?
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Sep 16th, 2006 04:15 PM |
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