Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
Did those KTTC People even see the same Movie
I decided to visit the KTTC forum...and I am always amazed at what these people have to say.. Have they even seen the same movie. They call Jack the Anti-Hero....They say the movie is just as much about the Will/Liz romance as it is about Jack Sparrow....sometimes I get the feeling they don't even like the Character of Jack the way they bash him and build up Will....it's a curious thing..isn't it???
IF POTC/DMC was about the Liz/Will romance...i doubt seriously that DMC would have topped $1billion....cuz it's just plain boring....it's all those hot scenes between jack and liz that have sent it soaring...and what will happen after the kiss when they meet face to face again...
"curiostiy" speaks volumes...what a great conversation...and what a prelude as to what is going to happen at the end of the movie...and what each character wants from the other...and each receives it...
Liz wanting Jack to prove that he is a good man, that he will have the opportunity to do the right thing...to do something courageous....
And Jack wanting Liz to prove that she will come over to his side...to act on selfish impulse...longing for freedom...to act without thinking....to be a PIRATE...
When you look at it that way...why wouldn't it be a Jack/Liz thing....
Oh no, here I go analyzing again...I just wanted to start relaxing and wait for the DVD to come out...and then I had to go and read all those silly postings on KTTC about how great Will is and how bad and selfish Jack is......
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
Oh yea, and another curious thing...some of these people who are so adamant about Liz/Will have pictures of Jack/liz kissing in their avatars and signatures...go figure??????
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i know isnt it stupid....i think they do this on purpose to aggrevate us. they act as anti-jack not the actor johnny the character. i dont understand these ppl. sometimes when i go i get im just like "...uh..." too many snobs...anti-jack ppl but stil have icons of jack and liz...wtf
im going to go there right now and see 4 myself what they write..*goes to kttc*
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Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
Does anybody know why the KTTC "W/E" shippers are so confidant that the compass is not pointing to Jack....they say that it's either pointing through Jack to Will...it means she needs Jack to find Will...or it means she doens't want Jack she just wants the life Jack has..his freedom???Uh????? Even just watching it for the first time...before I'd seen it 4 more times...before I ever read anything on the internet, before I'd seen any reviews, or wrote on any forum...I picked up on the fact that the compass was pointing to JACK. That's obvious..cuz it's the one and only thing I was sure of after watching it just one time...the movie is so full of symbolisms and underlying plots....and so much action and dialogue..it was very hard to understand the movie in just one shot. I left the movie thinking, "now what exactly was that movie all about?" But one thing that was for sure...something had changed between Liz and Jack ....
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Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
LOL!! when I showed the m that 12 step thing..and said that each character has accepted their true elixir before the movie closes..they just couldnt handle it and they started to bully me!
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 22nd, 2006 at 12:57 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
someone should tell them what an anti hero actually is..its usually a criminally insane man who does the heroic act for reasons they find heroic..but they usually do some pretty messed up, evil stuff in order to gain their elixir l..Jack didn't do that..he defeated the kraken for Elizabeth
and lovethemtigers
thats BS! what they say about the compass..because Ted and terry basically SAID it pointed to Jack for Jack when Liz looked at it..and they also said it wasn't for sex..she has feelings for the man...I remember bringing that up too and they were like "I think you are misunderstanding what he is saying waa!"..and I asked "care to explain better than them and me then?..and they shut up.
.they also said it didn't point there because she wants to be a pirate It pointed to him as a MAN
and they will try to squash you when you say Jack wants Liz in his life..and I said that Tiia knows this and they said "no she's only talking about the real chest" So I said "Then why is he loath to claim it??"..he WANTS the real chest..he's worried about claiming Liz..and Ted Elliot basically explained that he was..and thats what his compass was doing.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 22nd, 2006 at 01:12 PM
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
That's what I mean...they are almost anti_jack over there...yet they have pics of Jack all over their postings...I just don't get it. Why would the official website for the MOVIES let all these people post all these negative comments about their money man - Captain Jack Sparrow. Jack is meant to be the hero of this trilogy...not Will....the writers originally wanted the story to focus on Will ...but when they saw Jack's portrayal of Sparrow and the audiences' react and love for him..they changed their minds...that's why DMC is all about Jack..and what Jack wants...and Jack's adventures....not Will and Liz...the only reason Will and LIz end up in the adventure...is because of Jack, otherwise they would be happily married in Port Royal...living their boring life....why does Will end up on the Flying Dutchman and is reunited with his Father...because of JACK...why is Elizabeth having the adventure of a lifetime...because of JACK...what is the major plot...JACK HAS A DEBT TO PAY...TO DAVY JONES...AND HE IS IN A RACE AGAINST TIME TO SAVE HIS LIFE AND OTHERS...CUZ IF HE CAN CONTROL DAVY AND THE SEA..THEN JACK CAN RID THE WORLD OF THE HORRIBLE BEASTIE..THE KRACKEN..THUS SAVING HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF OTHER INNOCENT SAILORS LIVES....So, again...I wonder why the KTTC people are so anti-Jack and so pro-Will...I just don't get it...I'm serious ...sorry Kate and Sailorleo and Diddly and all the others that like Will....I think if AWE came out and Will only had a cameo appearance....the movie would still be a HUGE success...but if Jack only has a cameo appearance...then well, look for AWE to not even pass the 500,000 dollar mark.
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
Here is Wikipedia's version of what an Anti-Hero is:
Anti-hero
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In literature and film, an anti-hero has widely come to mean a fictional character who has some characteristics that are antithetical to those of the traditional hero. An anti-hero in today's books and films will perform acts generally deemed "heroic," but will do so with methods, manners, or intentions that may not be heroic. The actual use of the word, however, is fairly recent, and its primary meaning has somewhat changed. As recently as 1940, the 600,000-word Merriam-Webster New International Dictionary, Second Edition, listed it but without a definition. By 1992 the American Heritage Dictionary of the American Language defined an anti-hero only as "a main character in a dramatic or narrative work who is characterized by a lack of traditional heroic qualities, such as idealism or courage," not as a person who nevertheless performs heroic acts. Even the more recent Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition, of 2004, says: "(1714): a protagonist or notable figure who is conspicuously lacking in heroic qualities." The original meaning, therefore, is that of a protagonist who is ineffectual and hapless, rather than resolute and determined, whether his motives are good or bad. In some instances, anti-hero has come to refer to a protagonist of a work whose actions and motives are villainous or questionable.
Thus, anti-heroes can be awkward, antisocial, alienated, cruel, obnoxious, passive, pitiful, obtuse, or just ordinary. When the anti-hero is a central character in a work of fiction the work will frequently deal with the effect their flawed character has on them and those they meet along the narrative. In other words, an anti-hero is a protagonist that lives by the guidance of their own moral compass, striving to define and construe their own values as opposed to those recognized by the society in which they live. Additionally, the work may depict how their character alters over time, either leading to punishment, un-heroic success, or redemption.
So...this could apply to Jack is some ways...he does start off in DMC appearing cowardly and going about his journey in somewhat of an untraditional manner by running scared, by sending Will over to the Flying Dutchman...by striking a deal with Davy to bring back 99 souls and keeping Will's soul too - but Jack does alter over time...and in the end he finds redemption...because he does decide to come back, deliver the longboat so the crew can escape and he decides to face the Kracken like a hero, brave and heroic....
So, Jack does emerge as the hero...he may appear to be an anti-hero, but he is not....not really. Cuz we all know that deep down jack is a good man, so does Liz, and all of his actions are to keep his enemies guessing...he doesn't want anyone to know what he is truly all about...the only person who does..is Liz...not even Gibbs knows the real Jack Sparrow. He purposely appears as the Anti-hero in some instances...like dealing with Davy...but he is running scared for his life until the end....I'm talking in circle now...but does this make sense?
__________________ All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
Okay so after reading the definition maybe Jack does somewhat fit that definition...but in no way does Disney intend for it to stay that way..or else they would have had him keep rowing toward land, abandoning his crew and ship....instead he goes back....they showed that when face with the ultimate decision he chose to do the right thing...and face his fears....and I appologize for my insensitivity about Will and his importance to the story..I just get frustrated when people over at KTTC see Will as the more important character and the bigger hero than Jack...but that's just me I guess....I'm sorry.
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
Thus, anti-heroes can be awkward, antisocial, alienated, cruel, obnoxious, passive, pitiful, obtuse, or just ordinary.
Now this part of the definition does not describe JACK...Jack is not antisocial or cruel...or passive or pitiful and he is definitely not ordinary....anything but....Jack is charismatic and charming and roguish...he is brave and strong in his own way. Sure he is scared of the Kracken..but who wouldn't be. And everyone is afraid to face death...Jack is just being Human. He is afraid to face death. He wants to live. He wants his freedom. Does that make him a bad person, no. And did he go searching for Will and Elizabeth to drag them along in his adventures...no they came and found him. Of course it was because they faced the hangman's noose for helping him to escape...still not sure of Jack's criminal history that would merit Norrington wanting to hang him...just because he is a pirate. Has he ever killed anyone in cold-blood...just to kill someone...doubt it...and what has he stolen? Whatever he stole...he did it to help the less fortunate people...like the ones crying at the end of DMC leading to Tia's hut "the freed slaves" that Jack refused to transport for the EITC....randomly typing again...don't know where this is going...
__________________ All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
If he was that then millions upon millions of people wouldnt love him
he's more like the bad boy with a heart
Jack was kinda like that in movie 1 but by the end? No he wasnt..and at the start of movie 2 which is a new story..he's basically the same again lol and by the end? NOP..he's friggin hero meaning he's not the..they are usually like that to start with because they are such lonly people..and they are usually quite hurt..sometimes the anti hero is just that and he stays that..but in other stories..they can turn out to be rather heroic like hans solo..and Jack appears to be doing so too.
and you know what lovethemtigers.you are right..Jack never would kill someone in cold blood..which is why IMO the only reason he killed Barbossa was because he was about to shoot Liz..I bet he would have never done it had she not been in danger..its not in his heart to do stuff like that.
god liz needs to wake up to this man already!..I think she has actually by th eend of movie 2..she realizes this man goes the lenghts for her without worrying about the result of his actions.. he changes for her..when its about saving people like Will its all negotaions and Jack has himself at top prioruty..the seconnd liz is in danger? Its bravery..He'll do things that he would never usually do in desperate moments all to make sure that she is safe..never saw Will there when she was about to die at the hands of Barbossa..never saw Will there when she nearly drowned..never saw Will there when that guy was about to smack her over the head..never saw Will there when she got out of prison...
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 22nd, 2006 at 02:13 PM
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject:
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This was something that was typed in response to my postings on KTTC about how the movie is centered around jack sparrow and johnny depp as the money man for the movie...and that Jack is actually the hero...
This was typed by SueB from KTTC:
Actually, Terry (I believe) has already made his summer predicts for 2007 (apparently he does this every year). He predicts AWE at less than DMC simply because there will be so much fratracide from the other big blockbusters.
As to who is the "hero" in the movie, canon on this has been established by the writers (T&T. Sources: Wordplayer, multiple references, and COTBP commentary)
Jack is the Trickster AND the Star of the Movie
Elizabeth is the protagonist
Will is the hero
It is very traditional to have the Star, Protagonist, and Hero be the same person for most films. This is not the case for POTC. There is no doubt that the movie is driven by it's star (JD) but to belittle the roles of the other two is not necessary nor accurate. It is the unusual separation of Star, Protagonist, and Hero that drives some folks nuts. Perhaps this is why there is such a broad audience. This is not a Johnny Depp star vehicle. He's the star (and there would not have been any sequels without his truly superlative performance) but the movie is bigger than one person. Usually the big ones are.
__________________ All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
I agree with you LOL they are all basically following those steps..but hero..LOL can be ANY kind of hero..even an anti hero..
Star: the central character
Protagonist: central hero
Hero: the central hero
and this time Jack is following those steps I dont care what anyone on KTTC says lol HE was the mentor type character in movie 1!...this time he is a hero in movie 2/3 (one story)..because there is a NEW MENTOR meaning the 12 steps started again and this time each charcter has the chance to follow them..thats why movie 2 was so much longer than movie 1..and this story is a 2 part story..meaning they have more time to give each character a chance to be a "hero"..and Will has ALREADY been one by the end of a story..he has such potential to be a pretty dark and bad hero (anti hero) by the end of this one..because JACk is already the main hero now..the noble one..well noble for Liz anyway lol
His journey is the most imporatant though I agree with you lovethemtigers..the other are doing it.but Liz is only really about finding Jack again and being with him IMO..so she fits as his elixir..and Will..well I dunno
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 22nd, 2006 at 03:16 PM
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
And another clue as to how we know Johnny/Jack is what the movies are all about...they've actually added him to the ride at Disneyland and Disneyworld...do we see Will and Elizabeth added...no...I guess I won't go back over there...those people are just so negative about Jack Sparrow I can hardly stand it....they won't Jack to stay just as he was at the beginning of movie 1....it's okay for Will and Liz to evolve...but they argue what is the point for Jack to evolve...gosh, I guess if it were up to them...they wouldn't even have Jack in the movie...it would just be all about Liz and Will...now that's what I call a blockbuster movie..NOT>
__________________ All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
Jack is the Trickster AND the Star of the Movie
Elizabeth is the protagonist
Will is the hero
It is very traditional to have the Star, Protagonist, and Hero be the same person for most films. This is not the case for POTC. There is no doubt that the movie is driven by it's star (JD) but to belittle the roles of the other two is not necessary nor accurate. It is the unusual separation of Star, Protagonist, and Hero that drives some folks nuts. Perhaps this is why there is such a broad audience. This is not a Johnny Depp star vehicle. He's the star (and there would not have been any sequels without his truly superlative performance) but the movie is bigger than one person. Usually the big ones are.
I just don't see Will as the main hero by the end of Movie 2....and Jack is all three of these things by the end of movie 2...and I didn't belittle Will or Elizabeth..I just stated that Jack is the center..and without him they would have no story...and that's a fact, Jack.....I love Elizabeth in the movie..without her contributions to the film...Jack couldn't evolve....without Will...we wouldn't see where Elizabeth came from and where she is headed....they are the ones who belittle Johnny/jack and his contributions to the movie..to say that Orlando and Keira are as important to the success as Johnny..is just bizarre....yes, they contribute..but they are not on the same level..and they know that themselves...I've heard them say it in countless interviews....yes, Orlando and Keira are important to the movie. I get that. But they are in no way equal to Johnny and his contributions. That's all I was saying. Gosh, those people are just crazy. But who knows, I'm sure they think I'm crazy for saying that jack Sparrow is what makes the movie...I am so stupid. I guess I just dont get it.
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KMC Community Forums
Sep 22nd, 2006 01:00 AM
All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
and they were like "I think you are misunderstanding what he is saying waa!"..and I asked "care to explain better than them and me then?..and they shut up.
It pointed to him as a MAN
meaning the 12 steps started again and this time each charcter has the chance to follow them..thats why movie 2 was so much longer than movie 1..and this story is a 2 part story..meaning they have more time to give each character a chance to be a "hero"..and Will has ALREADY been one by the end of a story..he has such potential to be a pretty dark and bad hero (anti hero) by the end of this one..because JACk is already the main hero now..the noble one..well noble for Liz anyway lol
