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Hiya Guys, Just a Small Little Rant
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RememberS&S
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Hiya Guys, Just a Small Little Rant

Over the years I've grown to love Sparrabeth not only because of their chemistry and spark but because of the relationship they have. They are so much alike in so many ways yet they are so different at the same time. Honestly, the first time I watched CoTBP I thought Elizabeth would've run off with Jack. My mom told me ( before we went to see AWE ) that after we watched CoTBP in the movies, on the ride home I kept talking about Jack and Lizzie for ages, when she mentioned Will and I asked her "Who's Will?".

It made me laugh so hard. But now, everytime I think Pirates of the Caribbean, I first think Jack and Lizzie ( and later I think Barbosa ). I don't know, I mean after watching AWE and the Willabeth fans kept saying how hott the marriage was and how cute their little beach, knee smooching scene was I started to think to myself. Was there something wrong with me, I couldn't see the romance the two had. I couldn't see how in the world kissing someone's KNEE is hott, or getting married in 2 seconds with dead people and a hurricane around you is romantic.

True if it was Jack I would've probably liked it, but honestly I hated the wedding so much. If Sparrabeth was married like that I wouldn't really liked it, infact I would've hated them getting married at all ( I'd rather them just sailing into the sunset and assume that they hook up ). But there was no spark in W/E, was I the only one who hated them together? Honestly, truly, I can't even attempt to see the beauty and love in W/E, obviously Will loves Lizzie, but I doubt Lizzie really loves Will. I kinda think she went with him because he was the more 'stable' option. I don't know why but I just can't see them being happy together, I can't see how their relationship can progress. All these J/L shippers around me are saying they can see why W/E was the couple in the end, but I still can't see it. I don't know if I'm just plain stubborn or not but I still curse Ted and Terry for the lousy W/E ending. Maybe they just got lazy and went with the fairy tale ending so they didn't have to think up the J/L relationship.

Jack and Lizzie had so much potential, while Will and Lizzie peaked in CoTBP and kinda went downhill from there. With Jack and Lizzie, the relationship developed, partly because they weren`t shoved together in the first 10 minutes of POTC 1, and also because both their characters have depth. They developed Jack`s personality and past along with Lizzie`s but they just left Will off as this extra. Sure he developed alittle, and T&T did make that sad attempt to make him look like a bad boy, but honestly it didn`t work. Will was the blacksmith and Jack was the pirate. If you took Johnny Depp`s smoking good looks away from Jack and Orlando`s...looks away from Will (them still having the same personalities) then almost every single POTC fan would be on Jack`s side (even without Johnny`s drop dead gorgeous face).

Sparrabeth had so much chemistry when it came down to the phyical aspects but also so much in a deep, emotional aspect as well. They bonded through their love of the sea and their yearning for true freedom. Even though I never imagine them married and settled, I still think Jack is capable of settling down to a certain point. Everyone thinks Jack is this dashing and clever pirate but we all forget that he wasn`t a pirate from birth. He was forced into the life of piracy yet he blended so well into the persona, which means if he wants to he could quit the pirate life and live another one. Most fans wouldn`t like that but it`s entirally possible. After all, Jack wants freedom not piracy, piracy meant freedom at first to him but when Lizzie came into the picture I think his views on freedom changed. It was no longer the sea and a ship that meant it, but maybe just the company of friends and the warmth of true love.

This also proves that his feelings towards Lizzie were true and the flirting was not just to get in her pants. He could have any woman he wanted, wenches in Torguga or whatever but I think it was something special about Lizzie that enticed him. She was forbidden, but she was also so perfect for him. She felt the same way he did when it came to life and freedom, but she also had a mind to disagree with him and fight with him. That`s what makes a good relationship.

Problems.

With Willabeth all we saw was plain ol` I-love-you-so-lets-not-fight move every time their relationship was in trouble. And they WERE sweeping their problems under the rug, you can`t just look at someone, marry them in 2 seconds and pretend that the little holes in their relationship weren`t there. Sure Will probably could forgive and forget but I don`t think Lizzie would want to forget Jack and her taste of piracy.

That`s another thing I hate about Willabeth, after they marry and have kids, they`ll go back to their little blacksmith`s shop and live their until they grow old and rot. Or they could go sailing on the Flying Dutchman like the Swiss Family Robinsons and have their little (boring) adventures together. Which, honestly, I would protest against with a sign and everything.

What happend to all the passion of Sparrabeth, I know AWE crushed our hopes but it doesn't mean AWE cam to the right conclusion. I'm not going to live in my own fantasy world and pretend that Jack and Lizzie run away together but I still ship J/E all the way. They were the only reason I came to watch POTC, no matter how awsome the sword fights were or how cool the special effects were or how hansome and rugged Norington looked, I always came to see them together.

And honestly, a sweet and puppy dog love relationship is nice for 14 year olds but in POTC I expected more than that. Even though it was Disney. But think about it, Disney isn't really THAT into puppy dog love, is it? In Aladin, Jasmine the princess was with Aladin the guy from the street, wasn't she? I could think of more examples but I'm sure I've said them before.

And one more thing.

WHEN WILL AND ELIZABETH GET MARRIED ON THE SHIP, HE DIES DOESN`T HE? THAT MEANS THAT DEAD DID THEM PART, HE DIED SO SHE WAS A WIDOW AND THEY DID NOT REMARRY AFTERWARDS, MEANING THAT THEIR SUPPOSED SON IS BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.

HAH! Lets here your rebuttle to that Surreal!

SPARROWBETH FOREVER, I WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS SHIP!


SPARROWBETH FOREVER, I WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS SHIP!

Last edited by RememberS&S on Dec 2nd, 2007 at 03:55 AM

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2007 03:51 AM
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savvysparrowluv
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You're not alone, love, I'm right along there with you and i've got a bunch of friends here on KMC who are the same way! big grin

Have you checked out the Sparrabeth forum yet? We've even got a Sparrabeth recovery/therapy thread stick out tongue A lot of us (me included) are still bitter over the crappy Willabeth ending and all that fake puppy love and "romantic" stuff Ted and Terry through at us in AWE *grrrrr*.

Yes! The kid is totally born out of wedlock, death already did them part - Will is dead (as hard as that is for the Willabether's to get over - it'd be the same way if it happened to Jack with us stick out tongue)

*hugs*

We'll never get over Sparrabeth, but we can heal over time, eh? stick out tongue

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2007 04:30 AM
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katelovespirate
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"death already did them part".... hahahahahahahahaha.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2007 05:33 AM
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RememberS&S
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I forgot to write that it's Swanns&Sparrows or something like that, I had to make this account cause I couldn't remember the right spelling and my password. big grin I felt smart.

It's been really long and wow has this place changed! I just wanted to write alittle rant about AWE and Willabeth and Sparrabeth. You don't have to comment or get angry or whatever because this is just my opinion.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2007 05:46 PM
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RememberS&S
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by katelovespirate
"death already did them part".... hahahahahahahahaha.


Think about it, it's true.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2007 05:47 PM
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savvysparrowluv
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Oh, she's just laughing b/c we just had the same discussion on the Sparrabeth forum stick out tongue

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2007 06:07 PM
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katelovespirate
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yeah, and the way it was phrased was pretty funny.

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2007 07:37 PM
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savvysparrowluv
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Yeah, lol stick out tongue Reminds me of that scene in "Corpse Bride", lol

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2007 07:47 PM
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potcfan2003
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You guys, u ppl will disagree wit me, but I see no point in u guys getting worked up over the willabeth ending... tht's how the movie ended and it's not changing... u guys should write ur sparrabeth fanfics and day dream, but plz don't ruin the willabeth ending for me and the other wilabther


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Old Post Dec 4th, 2007 09:14 PM
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texgodiva2s
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Pretty pretty pretty banner Miz PotC2003.

I understand where you are coming from and I know how I feel about the whole deal. I would 'save' anyone if I could from feeling unhappy or being frustrated, that's not the way of the world.

I will love them as they rage or weep or sit on the curb and eat worms--them's our pirates/crew too just like we's theirs. The ending is the ending of the movie. That's all. I'm about 6 more items down the road from the end of the movie.

I totally love the beach/honeymoon scene. I feel like it's about as cool a get down scene as ever was that didn't actually show anything. It brought two characters together both of whom I loved/love dearly.

I can't ask that them what grieves over what didn't come to fruitation not to grieve. If they couldn't rant and rave and rage, they would be even more hurt. Just gotta make room in your big old loving heart, Miz PotC and let 'em in.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2007 12:04 AM
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katelovespirate
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by potcfan2003
You guys, u ppl will disagree wit me, but I see no point in u guys getting worked up over the willabeth ending... tht's how the movie ended and it's not changing... u guys should write ur sparrabeth fanfics and day dream, but plz don't ruin the willabeth ending for me and the other wilabther


listen sweetheart, i hate to break it to you, but you guys lost out too. According to the current plan as laid out by the writers in the DVD info, Elizabeth will get to see Will an average of 5 times before she dies. that's not a marriage in my mind, and certainly not a happy ending for anyone.

If it had ended with a happy Willabeth scenario, I would be disappointed but would deal with it. It's just the crappiest, saddest, weirdest ending of all times that set me (and I think everyone else) off quite a bit.

Old Post Dec 5th, 2007 12:09 AM
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potcfan2003
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Yea it was a cruddy ending...but it could make a fourth movie... trying to un-curse Will... probably will never happen but I can dream!! and Jack could help Liz and her son find a way to save Will, so the sparrabethers would be happy... and they could all kinda sail around on adventures together... again... never gonna happen but some one should try a fan fic of tht...


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Yes I'm obsessed... You say it like it's a bad thing...

thank you to Mrs.Fish for the siggy!!

Old Post Dec 5th, 2007 01:27 AM
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potcfan2003
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srry on the double post, but when I said they could all sail around wit each other, I meant Will Jack and Liz... bc they would un-curse Will... and Jack could find a new love interst who he likes better than Liz...


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Yes I'm obsessed... You say it like it's a bad thing...

thank you to Mrs.Fish for the siggy!!

Old Post Dec 5th, 2007 01:29 AM
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savvysparrowluv
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by potcfan2003
You guys, u ppl will disagree wit me, but I see no point in u guys getting worked up over the willabeth ending... tht's how the movie ended and it's not changing... u guys should write ur sparrabeth fanfics and day dream, but plz don't ruin the willabeth ending for me and the other wilabther


Hon, we're not trying to ruin the ending for you or any other willabether, just as if it ended Sparrabeth you guys wouldn't try ruin our ending ( I hope, lol). We get worked up about it because to us, it just doesn't 'fit' - at least that is how it is in my case. I'm not a Will fan, and (not meaning to step on toes here), I can't see how anybody would want to choose Will over Jack. We will continue to write our fanfics and 'daydream' as you say, but we'll still continue to discuss why we think Sparrabeth is the best pairing in our own opinions, and I don't see that as ruining an ending.

Old Post Dec 5th, 2007 01:43 AM
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texgodiva2s
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Sorry to double up, don't know how I missed Miz Remember S&S, you really leaned into that one darlin' and Miz Savvy's right, we be talking this for the last 7 months about--you're in the right place for ranting and raving and Sparrabething (well, actually that's a couple of forums either before or after here). Glad you found this spot again. As for the beach/honeymoon scene, there's this other little bit, like the key word in a algebra word problem, that gives over the joy in this scene. He wasn't even kissing her knee, he was inhaling her--them on her. It is a fine interpretation. Also, Will isn't dead, dead people don't make babies.

Jack's hot, no doubt about it. No arguement, I'm like you, it's just my opinion. Glad you're here to share yours.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2007 02:50 AM
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savvysparrowluv
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Unless *cough* the baby is Jack's wink Okay, so that is pure fiction and daydreaming on my part, lol - my mom said the same thing when she watched AWE today "Will can't be dead, how did he get her pregnant? Dead people don't have live cells" stick out tongue

Old Post Dec 5th, 2007 05:06 AM
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Sifzensinril
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ssl, what you have over your siggy? It's true very, very much


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A sparrabeth fanlisting love

Old Post Dec 5th, 2007 05:40 AM
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katelovespirate
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by savvysparrowluv
Unless *cough* the baby is Jack's wink Okay, so that is pure fiction and daydreaming on my part, lol - my mom said the same thing when she watched AWE today "Will can't be dead, how did he get her pregnant? Dead people don't have live cells" stick out tongue



ahhhh! Neatly argued! I didn't think about that. I will have to take this into consideration when I make my lengthy and un-debatable argument of why Jack and Liz do sleep together and eventually end up together, based solely on facts of the film. wink

the DVD case itself confirms this. (though my opinions of having a DVD answer sheet will remain silent right now). Will, along with the other crew members of the flying dutchman, aren't human, and aren't living or dead. It stands against reason that they could procreate, unless the child was some sort of half-immortal changling.

Old Post Dec 5th, 2007 04:47 PM
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texgodiva2s
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They were nearly dead when they were bound over to the Dutchman--and when their particular spell/enchantment/curse is lifted, they are still walking talking peoples again--(extended lives, odd ability to go underwater for long periods of time--man TnT gotta go back to supernatural/spells/enchantment school and Get an A rather than a passing grade!!)--they got free, Bootstrap being told he didn't have to remain as crew on the Dutchman...

My gig always has been always will be, first Will then Jack--long term loving married to both (I'd lot rather tangle with the legal system at that time than the whys and wherefores of the magic/supernatural). I don't have problem one with her marrying Will on the Pearl (well, hedge my bet sorta) and having another equally legitimate Pirate wedding(designation: begins Dearly Beloved...tradish, signing in the codes, signing articles, and/or slash your palm blood handshake...pirate). Although that is one household that will require some definite chore charts to make sure Mom and Dads are on top of the daily do's. Allows for Jack&Will, Jack&Elisabeth, Will&Elisabeth, all together now to pirate or privateer as needed or desired. Again, so much easier to get around legal than supernatural.

Also, in the sharing it's not the super best of both worlds (except for Elisabeth)however, if you have cake and dance too, well, you gotta give something. Okay, off soapbox, on to next dragon. Sorry Miz Kate and Savvy, I'm that third variation of Bether, sorta like swirled vanilla chocolate cones. Not the easiest solution, but one I can live with and still have Jack free. Lady Pirate's Until Death (?), except for part three where it's abrupt. Anyway, I feel ever so much better being ranted out and off the soapbox. Thankee dearies for letting the blowhard blow hard. and I got to see Mr. Depp this a.m. on Today show!! Yes, he is melting away--otherwise seems healthy and happy.

I'm personally a huge fan of having your cake and dancing with both the hot boys. Just desserts indeed!


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2007 05:50 PM
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willofthewisp
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I think Kate said it best, had it been a happy willabeth ending, yeah, we would probably still b*tch because it's not OUR ending, but we could live with it. We all loved COTBP and that was as happy a willabeth ending as anyone's going to get. It even struck me as refreshing that the girl did NOT go off with the hot pirate at the end but actually stuck with the little guy. It was pure escapism, swashbuckling fun that is still the best in the series.

We were all satisfied with how DMC was left because it was open-ended in spite of T&T's rants that everything was already resolved at the end of DMC and they technically could have ended it there. (UH, NO!!!) But we could make up whatever we wanted. How many times did we write our own version of AWE? Everyone was happy because they saw possibilities for their couple. Sparrabethers had clues, willabethers had clues, maybe not barbossabethers, but at least norribethers knew their dashing commodore-turned-heart-stealer (pun is intended) would be back for more.

But then T&T realized the hole they dug themselves in. There was no way to make everyone happy. Duh. That's what happens in a movie franchise. Some fans get disappointed. So they had to pick a course of action to take, and stick to it, closing off the other relationship and making it clear that whatever feelings may have been floating around, it was all over and a friendship was the best it would ever be.

1. Willabeth: This is the couple they've written from the beginning, the "young lovers" couple, and in some ways, it can be exciting writing about a young couple just starting out and facing challenges. Will would not have been able to stay a blacksmith, so he wouldn't have started beating Liz into submission as a lot of rude, hardcore sparrabethers think. There was lots of potential to make a fun willabeth ending.

2. Sparrabeth. Little things have been building and building until they exploded into one of the hottest kisses in all of filmdom. By the end of DMC, there are unresolved feelings there, and as LovelyOne first pioneered, a lot of cinematic clues to imply that these two are definitely soulmates and parallels of each other, if not lovebirds. Nearly all the character development these two go through happens when the other one is present or in the other's mind. Find a nice convenient way to drop Will and this could have been one kickass ending.

3. Norribeth: talk about a left field ending. But it could have been done given a meaty story that focused on James, which would have been easy considering he had the heart and came out the winner in DMC. More fans would have been mad because norribethers are in the minority, but James is a happy medium for most shippers because he has all of Jack's sexiness without the weirdness and all of Will's bravery without the dorkiness.

4. No shipping: Our trio sails off in the sunset because (a la Cate Blanchett in Bandits) her love interests are only perfect when combined. This would have been a kind of cop-out, but everyone would have once again be satisfied because there is plenty of room to guess about who finally won Liz's heart and which odd man out met another girl along the way.


But did they do any of these? No. They decided if all their fans can't be happy, no one can be, and not only cursed Will for 10 years but his whole existence! The only way for Liz to be with him is if she becomes immortal and then that would suck because they would see their son and their grandchildren die. It would just be a never ending cycle of making people immortal, and I have a big pet peeve with "people becoming immortal" endings. So she goes on to have the hardest job in the world as a single working mom and Will is left to be alone for all eternity (oh, wait, he has his deadbeat dad) and Jack is left with nothing but a faulty compass that never should have been a focal point and a bottle of rum. Great. A trio of losers.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2007 07:05 PM
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