Cyborg Superman,Pre Crisis Superman and Sun Dipped Superman vs Asgard Destroyer
We all know these three Supermen are very very powerful but against the Asgardian Destroyer can they win?Loki Animating it
Destroyer-Variable; the Destroyer possesses the intelligence of the sentient being whose life-force animates it, plus its own "programmed" intelligence; however, only Odin, Thor, and Loki have ever forced the Destroyer to obey their will while animating it.
Strength: Incalculable (12/12)
Speed: Superhuman (6/10)
Flight Speed: possibly Escape Velocity
Stamina: Immeasurable (10/10)
Durability: Godlike (13/14)
Agility: Superhuman (6/7)
Reflexes: Superhuman (6/7)
However let's pick ONE of the Supermen mentioned .....Pre-Crisis Superman. The guy who could pull astounding feats from the very ether.
What do you think his stats, if I make use of the same factors used for Asgard Destroyer, would be:
Strength: Asgard Destroyer: Incalculable (12/12) ....Pre-Crisis's strength is definitely incalculable. Even when he was Super-Boy (not to be confused with the current Superboy Kon-El) he was pulling planets. Thus Pre-Crisis would have a 12/12 ....at least)
Speed: Asgard Destroyer: Superhuman (6/10) .....Pre-Crisis Superman had speed abilities that allowed them to transcend time and space .....thus his speed has to be definitely 10/10 (again, at least, since Pre-Crisis' speed transcended the definition of speed)
Flight Speed: Asgard Destroyer: possibly Escape Velocity .....well, ALL Supermen (or anyone with any form of Kryptonian DNA in them) can exceed escape velocity (which is the speed necessary to defeat the pull of Earth's gravity and go into space). Even Krypto has more than enough flight ability to surpass escape velocity ....by far. Pre-Crisis Superman is a guy who could easily go faster than light speed, so what do you think he would feel about escape velocity? And if he could go through black holes , which have such immense gravitational fields that even LIGHT cannot escape, do you really think he would find Earth's gravity anything to even think about?
Stamina: Asgard Destroyer: Immeasurable (10/10) ....good for Asgardian destroyer. However the same could easily be said of sun-dipped Superman, let alone Pre-Crisis Superman who was basically a deity. Thus 10/10.
Durability: Asgard Destroyer: Godlike (13/14) .....well, I do not know what 14/14 is, if 13/14 is 'godlike,' so I guess I will put Pre-Crisis' stats as 13/14 as well.
Re: Cyborg Superman,Pre Crisis Superman and Sun Dipped Superman vs Asgard Destroyer
Oh, and BTW, using Marvel stats (eg. the ones you put for the Asgardian Destroyer) as a form of base when putting Marvel characters against DC characters is a rather skewed way of showing analogous relationships. For example Asgardian destroyer has a strength that is incalculable, and thus has a 12/12 (I'm assuming the stats you put are official and not from some website).
That seems pretty much up there.
Same for stamina, agility, reflexes etc.
However many DC characters operate under a different system altogether.
Look at Aquaman. The guy is really fast (it is just that virtually everyone in the JLA is faster), but Aquaman has significant speed. He also has huge powers in other areas, for example strength, telepathy, the ability to see in the dark (yep, something that is often not brought up), magic etc. However once you compare him with other JLAers then these abilities do not seem all that. For example virtually every major JLAer can go faster than aquaman (eg WW, Flash, SM, MM), people like Martian Manhunter and Dr Fate have far stronger telepathy (even though Aquaman is a strong enough telepath to have very good standing in the X-Men), seeing in the dark is nothing (even Batman has 3 different types of lenses in his cowl to make him see in darkness), and magic ....Aquaman's waterhand is a strong relic, but think about people like Zatanna and Dr.Fate, or (looking at DC in general) people like the Phantom Stranger, Dr Occult, Shazam (the Champion Vlarem) and the Spectre. They make Aquaman's magic hand (even when it has immense potential like becoming evil and turning into a world-consuming menace called the Hunger) look like some child's trinklet.
For example take Vixen.
When she assumes the powers of a cheetah her speed and reflexes are high enough that in Marvel stats she would get a pretty healthy score. She is around QuickSilver speed (before the Isotope-E stuff), and even though she is using the speed of a cheetah (she can use many other animal powers) she is far faster than a cheetah.
Now, take DC's Cheetah. This character is one of WonderWoman's greater foes. And she has immense super-speed, at times being fast enough to make the Flash take notice. Vixen's speed would have gotten her serious points using Marvel's stat system, but Cheetah is far faster.
Then look at WonderWoman (speed of Hermes), MartianManhunter (superspeed), Superman (hyperspeed).
And then you have the Flash .....this guy is the essence of speed.
And then you have Zoom.
Now, Aquaman would have a high-ish score in Marvel, since he is quite fast. He can run quite fast (and can swim faster, according to Batman around 80 knots), but his running speed is basically laughable in the JLA.
Vixen can run at around the same speed QuickSilver did before his upgrade, but her speed is just as laughable in the JLA.
WonderWoman is super-fast, enough to speed-blitz almost anyone. However running at her top-speed she couldn't even beat the Flash when he was toying with her (and running backwards). In fact when she said she had the speed of Hermes the Flash quipped at her saying, 'speed of Hermes ....sorry, I though you were fast.'
Then you have MM (this guy is a real powerhouse, with abilities that are among the most powerful in the JLA ....but the JLA is so saturated with powerful types that even HE gets diluted).
And Superman .....Pre-Crisis superman can go faster than time, the current one cannot under his own power. However he is still fast enough to pull some stunts that are just insane when it comes to speed.
Cheetah ....before she was fast, now she almost seems as if she has access to the speedforce.
Then you have the Flash and Zoom.
Anyways, what I am trying to show you is that the Marvel stat system is not really pertinent to DC.
And actually Marvel cannot even keep those stats straight when it comes to their OWN characters.
For example on Marvel.com, the official stats of Wolverine, Spiderman and Venom are the same (they all have a 4 stat). However Spiderman is around 15 times stronger than Wolverine (taking Spidey's strength of 15 tons ....I heard he got upped from 10 tons), and Venom is roughly just a lil' under twice as strong as Spiderman.
Yet they all have the same rating.
Marvel's stat system is EXTREMELY static, and trying to use it to show a Marvel character vs a DC character is really not viable.
In the example above I used speed to illustrate this.
Strength would be even better.
For instance,most of the top Marvel powerhouses are said to be able to lift over 100 tons. In Marvel that is a clear demarcation mark, and thus it is utilized.
In DC Superman can lift well over 100 tons, and has been estimated to be between 100,000 to 800,000 tons.
Now, the Hulk, even though he is listed as 100 ton+, doesn't have a real upper limit, thus it is arguable that he can lift far more than 100 tons (and anyways, a listing of a 100 ton+ means he can lift MORE THAN 100 TONS).
However it just shows that DC has a totally different way of looking at characters.
Even people like Animal Man in DC, some obscure character that in most cases is just capable of taking up animal abilities (sort of like Vixen ....but male) even has some serious ability. For example by tapping into 'The Red' he is able to have powers that can shift worlds (and destroy them), and make him one of the more powerful members of the JLA (even though he is a second-stringer who is not even in the active team).
Same thing for WonderWoman ....normally she is super-powerful, however when she utilizes the godwave she is like the Phoenix in Marvel.
Or Aquaman ....as mentioned his WaterHand has magical abilities, however if it is used for violence it gives rise to The Hunger, which can destroy the world.
Or Martian Manhunter ......as he is he is one of the most powerful (I'd say the most powerful, as even Superman and GL said). However when he turns into The Burning he can destroy the entire world (and even the guardians of Oa couldn't stop him).
Only Plastic Man, yep him, could! Thus even PM is more than he seems.
And talking about Oa, if a GL manages to capture all the energy he becomes a deity ....basically a version of Ion or Parallax.
Or Fate .....his helmet is not only the home of a Lord of Order, but it has its own ENTIRE UNIVERSE within it.
Or the Flash ....with the potential to be one with the speedforce (eg in Kingdom Come) where he is basically everywhere at the same time.
Anyways, Marvel stats will not work in DC, and DC stats will not work in Marvel.
And actually, Marvel stats do not even work in MARVEL! They really need to fix those things and make them more dynamic.
Re: Cyborg Superman,Pre Crisis Superman and Sun Dipped Superman vs Asgard Destroyer
By this description, this should be a blessing for Cyborg. He should be able to possess it similar to his chunk of the source wall.
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Humans are afraid of the dark.
And yet… At the same time, we’re fascinated and bewitched by it.
Maybe that’s why humans drink the darkness that is coffee.
Yeah well no denying it but that description is what makes DC so lame as almost every character has to be close to "christian god" to make a dent however one has to laugh at the fluxuating marvel system ANything for an audience.
For good measure its this same strength in DC that makes so many other things look laughable as in Cheetarah......Greek panthoen pathetic, norse pantheon pathetic as judged by super hero's then african pantheon's "avatar" hero can represent vs 2 others same as wonder woman
Oh and superman's win this easy
Last edited by Soleran on Nov 19th, 2005 at 04:16 AM
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Nov 18th, 2005 04:13 PM
ANything for an audience.
