Can the golden Avenger take out the scarlet speedster?? Ironman's in his latest, most hi-tech armor (current version) and they've each had 1 hour prep...Let the games begin.....
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Thereotically IM could send out a frequency which could disrupt Flash's brain patterns causing his balance to become distorted and pretty much fall over repeatedly, thus allowing IM to come in for the kill, unless Flash can someone counter this with the speedforce by stealing all the kinetic energy in the air caused by the frequency, wouldn't be surprised though.
It's not like Ironman will start off on the floor waiting to do some fisti-cuffs with Flash, he's gonna be flying, always has, which gives him the advantage.
He rescued 500,000 people in 0.00001 (5 decimal places) of a second, while a nuclear detonation was going on, and transported them (in 2s and 3s) 35 miles away. Note he had to SEARCH for them in the city, take a couple, then go back for more .....in 0.00001 of a second.
Basically there is no viable (non PIS/CIS) way for Tony Stark to win.
The fight would be over before Tony knew it had even began.
Flash powers:
Superspeed
Wally West is the Fastest Man Alive, and so far as is known, the Fastest Man Ever. He is capable of moving at just under the speed of light, and in truth his top speed, if he has one, is hard to guage since once he goes beyond lightspeed, he enters the Speed Force. As far as is known Wally is the only speedster to enter the Speed Force entirely and re-emerge, which helps account for his incredible gifts. His connection he has with the Speed Force is stronger than any known person has ever attained. It's far more than enough to allow Wally West to run up sheer or even upside-down surfaces to defy gravity, or to allow him to run over liquids as if they were as firm as concrete. He can catch bullets out of the air as if they were stationary, and could quite probably dodge lasers.
Molecular control
The gifts of the Speed Force include the ability to control every molecule of Wally's body to where they can be vibrated and made to phase through solid matter. These days, doing so can charge whatever he phases through with kinetic energy and cause that matter to explode violently. This is both a good and bad thing, in that he can use the ability to charge matter to explode as a weapon, but in doing so he harms whatever he phases through. Since the Flash's recent increase in speed, his control has been enhanced to where he may choose either to kinetically charge what he vibrates through, or not do so and pass through solid matter harmlessly. Another facet of his molecular control is that Wally can vibrate himself to where his body becomes invisible and light just passes through it. Yet another ability related to his vibrational molecular control is that Wally can attune his ears and eyes to hear and see the vibrations of radio waves or other forms of light, thereby tuning into any frequencies he cares to listen to or see just as if they were normal sound and light. Through the control of his vibrations, he is even able to heat up substances that he touches or impart heat energy into an object on contact.
Turbocharged brain
When Wally moves into superspeed his perceptions change radically and the world appears to move by at a snail's pace. If he's going fast enough, the world even seems to have frozen. This altering of perception is vital in order for Wally to function at the extreme speeds that he can reach, and allows him to manage his movements and environment with awareness and accuracy. It's also a power that he can activate without physically moving any faster, throwing his thought processes into overdrive to where his perceptions and thoughts fire off faster than the processes of a supercomputer.
Speed force aura
When moving at superspeed, Wally West is able to surround himself with an aura of Speed Force Energy. It extends out from his body enough to cover objects or even persons carried by him, and allows him to treat them as extensions of his person for purposes of speed powers. The aura also protects Wally from the effects of hitting stationary objects (so instead of turning to hamburger he'd just hit as if he were running normally and ran into it) and keeps his passing from causing sonic booms and massive collateral damage everywhere he goes at superspeed. The aura can be controlled to where such sonic booms and effects on the environment are allowed, however.
Kinetic energy control
Wally West is able to both steal and give energy of motion from and to an object. He can take the velocity out of a moving object and cause it to stand still as well as charge an object with motion and propel it into possibly ridiculous amounts of speed. This is only possible in either case with objects that happen to be or are caught in Wally's wake as he passes or moves over them. In a sense it's really contact and proximity to his Speed Force Aura that enables him to add to or take away from the velocity of other objects, and he can either drag objects behind him at his speed or move past an already-moving object and take its speed away to leave it standing motionless behind.
The Snap - Where through manipulation of the Speed Force Aura and a superspeed motion (often a snap of the fingers or clap of the hands) Wally causes a deafening and highly damaging sonic boom that can knock down walls and stun opponents.
Cyclones - Where through moving his limbs in various fashions the Flash may cause extreme winds that can blow about objects with force similar to a tornado.
Dismantling - Where through a simple series of appropriate motion Wally just dissects things like cars, weapons, furniture, down to the limit of his understanding of how to take apart a given device or object. That's assuming he wants it to be able to work when reassembled...
Bombs - Where through taking advantage of the explosive kinetic charge that Wally endows an object by phasing through it, he intentionally charges things to explode in order to use them as weapons. They can be as simple as walls or trees, or as clever as throwing a rock without opening his fist and letting that rock phase through his fingers, charged to explode as it hurtles toward its intended target.
Vibro Hands - Where Wally can saw through solid objects with his hands (as an example) by vibrating his body and basically blasting his way through said object on contact.
Hot Touch - Where through vibrational control, Wally can heat up an object as much or as little as he likes just by touching it and concentrating on the energy he imparts to it.
Speed force suit
Through his control of Speed Force Energy, Wally is able to form a suit around his body in the approximate shape and color of his original Flash suit he inherited from Barry, only made of pure Speed Energy. This suit is more convenient than the old ring-pop-out suit, and it is capable of acting like armor to absorb great amounts of kinetic energy.
Healing
Wally is able to use the Speed Force in order to speed up the healing of injuries to himself.
Sustenance
Through his link with the Speed Force, Wally is able to draw sustenance from that energy field that allows his body to channel Speed Force Energy without having to stuff his body with carbs and food to keep going. It also provides him with the needed energy to keep running and running even if it's all the way around the globe.
Time travel
Wally West can travel through time in three ways:
Speed Force - By reaching the Speed Force and bouncing off of the barrier at the edge of it, Wally will often skip forward or back in time unpredictably. Alternately he can cross that barrier and enter the Speed Force entirely, then exit to any possible point in history. Unfortunately by this method the Speed Force has a way of controlling when he comes out and ends up. About his best bet in doing this is to run right along the Speed Force wall. Doing so, Wally can read the different eras that he passes up and just stop at the one he wants. So far, Wally is the only speedster that can reliably perform this mode of time travel.
Through the Cosmic Treadmill.
Temporal Vibrations - By attuning his physical vibrations to those of another timeframe, Wally can basically fade into another time/dimension. The only trouble doing this is that he doesn't necessarily know the proper vibration for a given time in a given dimension, and just experimenting with different vibrations to see where you end up is about as smart as stabbing yourself in the brain with a needle to see what cool things you can make your leg do.
Quick formula
Wally knows the sped formula which gave Johnny and Jesse Quick their speed. He doesn't use it often, and the first time was to give him an extra boost on top of his natural superspeed and to help him reach the Speed Force. Since then, his natural speed has been adequate to get there alone, so he's never had to use it. He still knows the formula, however, and by reciting the equation "3x2(9yz)4a" and conceptualizing the fourth dimensional construct that goes with it, Wally can stack the added superspeed of the Quick's on top of his own. A side effect of when he does this is that for a brief moment, time is frozen for everyone except Wally during which the added link to the Speed Force seems to interfere with his natural one, or perhaps elbows it aside for a bit in order to provide its form of superspeed. The effect is unnoticeable to anyone in the normal timestream, however, and as soon as the "time-hiccup" or whatever one calls it passes, Wally has extra superspeed. This added link to the Speed Force neither supercedes nor interferes with his natural link besides that momentary timefreeze, and it allows him all of the normal powers that he normally has with his own superspeed.
Wow he rescued 500,000 people in 0.00001 (5 decimal places) of a second, how does that help his argument, unless The Flash knows how to fly he still won't be able to get to IM. Whilst IM can in the meantime just send out his brain frequency wave just disrupting Flashs brain patterns. Even if wally can escape this, which i know he can, it will just resort in battle out, as IM can cover a huge area with his frequency. Also Kinetic energy control won't work on IM, as it is only possible in either case with objects that happen to be or are caught in Flashs wake as he passes or moves over them, oh what a surprise, IM is in the air, guess that won't work. Also IM has the artillery in his armour to easily negate Flashs cyclones & 'the snap'.
p.s Im not even a IM fanboy, but this is a good thread, and im probably the only one standing up for him.
Let me explain why the whole rescue thing is pertinent here.
Basically the story had the Flash going to that city, grabbing two (at times three)people, and running with them to a location 35 miles away.
Then he goes back, finds two (or three) more people, and takes them 35 miles away.
Then he goes back ......etc etc etc.
This continues until 500,000 people have been evacuated, and all this takes place in 0.00001 of a second.
However some questions have to be asked, and answered:
a)
Devil's Advocate: So what? What is its significance?
Answer:Well, it shows the speed at which the Flash can move.
b)
DA: Yeah yeah ....everyone knows how fast Wally can move, but how is that relevant in a fight against Stark?
Ans: Well, if the flash could evacuate 500,000 people from a city, and make between 250,000 - 166,666 trips (250K if he gets 2 people at a time, 167K if he gets 3 at a time), and take them 35 miles away ......and do this in a second's fraction ....then it means that against ONE target this would be far easier. If he could move 500K people, taking an average of 200,000 trips, and moving everyone 35 miles away in 0.00001 of a second, then IMAGINE what it would be like against a single individual who is at 1 mile ....10miles ....100 miles ....1,000 miles ......on another continent.
At those speeds it really wouldn't matter much where Stark is located.
c)
DA: But but ....Iron Man can fly, and the Flash cannot. Thus the Flash cannot even reach Stark, and hence Tony wins by default.
Ans: Yes, Iron Man can fly. However that doesn't insure his safety in the least.
For one the Flash can simply do what he did on the moon ....throw some dust up and race on the dust particles (using the SF) and get Tony. Thus Stark's flight capability as Iron Man is moot.
d)
DA: Not possible. Iron Man will notice Flash coming up and move out of the way.
Ans: Which brings me back to the city evacuation speed feat. At the speeds the Flash will be moving the fight will be over before Stark can do anything.
Against a single individual standing (or hovering) anywhere within a several thousand mile radius, the conclusion would be a given.
e)
DA: Whatever! What about Iron Man releasing some sort of missile/gas/repulsorbeam/projectile/bb/sonic weapon of some sort. That will defeat the Flash!
Ans: Stark will not even be able to THINK of doing that. The Flash will be travelling several hundred thousand times faster than a myelinated human nerve impulse can travel.
Also, even if he was to deploy countermeasures, Wally would be going so fast that it would be moot.
Projectiles would be too slow.
Sonics would be too slow (speed of sound vs near speed of light)
Repulsor beams (let's assume the beam travels at light speed) would be moot also .....how does he aim at the Flash? Even if the suit had automatic aiming capability (similar to the Phalanx automated defenses in US Navy ships), the mechanism wouldn't be able to aim and align at light speed. The beam may be at light speed, but the machine would be no where near.
f)
DA: However Stark has so much technology in his armor.
Ans: True, but he would never get to use it.
g)
DA: However Stark can control his armor using thought. That means he can deploy countermeasures and attack instantly.
Ans: He cannot do that instantly .....he can do that almost instantly (or at the speed at which a thought would travel in his mind .....fastest being around 350 feet per second).
The Flash would be moving at (in feet per second) 983.5 MILLION feet per second.
To reiterate, the fastest thought in Stark's brain would be moving at 350 feet per second.
THUS:
That means that the LEAST distance that Stark HAS to be away from the Flash to HAVE A SINGLE THOUGHT (based on Flash's established speed) is (again AT LEAST) 186,363 MILES.
That is how far Iron Man has to be away from the Flash for him to have a single thought BEFORE the Flash is already on him.
NOTE:
The diameter of the Earth (in miles) is 7,926 miles.
More importantly, the CIRCUMFERENCE of the Earth is 24,900 miles.
And based on Flash's speed, the least distance Tony would have to be to have a SINGLE THOUGHT would have to be 186,363 miles.
This means that Stark could be ANYWHERE on the globe, and the Flash will get him LONG before he can even have a SINGLE thought.
The only way for Tony to have a chance would be for him to be, say, on the moon, which (being 350,000 miles away from Earth) would enable him to have ALMOST two thoughts before the Flash was on him.
Conclusion: Barring PIS/CIS (eg the Flash tripping on a rock), the Flash wins this 10/10.
The Flash is one of several characters in comics who simply cannot (should not) be defeated apart from by characters that are cosmic in nature. If any of the Flash comics (or comics he is appearing in) were written with the writer making use of all the abilities he has been given, the comic would just need 3 panels ....one to set up the story, one to have the Flash winning, and the last to show the conclusion/wrap-up after Wally wins.
At his speeds it would take truly powerful people to stop him .....and Iron Man is NOT one of them.
Last edited by spetznaz on Feb 21st, 2006 at 06:10 AM
As much of a Flash supporeter i am, i heard that he built up speed before evacuating the island. I dont know how true that is, but either way Ironman has 1 hour of prep as well as Wally. Ironman may be able to come up with something to counter Flash. I still say Flash wins though, but the 1 hour of prep would help IM alot imo.
Iron man is pretty powerful , but usless here . Tony get's his flight disrupted by arm tornadoes before having his speed stolen and then a million punches at sub light speed
I think it was me and someone else here that decided that Iron Man with prep = everyone dies. If he starts out in the air, he'd win. I'm not saying I don't like the Flash, but Iron Man is too smart if given prep to lose to anyone. With prep, he'd just augment his armor to certain specifications to stop Flash in his tracks.
The Original Poster said that they both had one hour prep.
Is that enough time for Stark to come up with something to stop a character that would be on him, anywhere in the world, before he could even think?
And how exactly would Stark accomplish such a feat?
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Feb 21st, 2006 03:21 AM
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