He is just as tough and is still super strong. Thing has gone toe to toe with Hercules so I would say Colossus could to. Beast lifts between 1 and 30 tons and Hercules weights 325 pounds so If beast hits Herc he will go flying.
I'm trying to stay out of Herc threads because It could be termed as bias but here we go.
Hercules is much stronger than Colossus, although Colossus has shown to be the more durable in my opinion.
Colossus could go toe to toe with Herc but Ultimatley he loses out to superior strength, speed and combat ability.
Beast is faster than Herc but nowhere near in his league with regard to strength and combat, Beast would provide a distraction for Colossus to recover but really, hes not stopping Herc, only keeping him occupied and trying not to get killed.
With Good team work between the two mutants they have a chance of taking a couple but I still see Hercules winning this 8/10.
It isn't spite, Colossus would give Hercules a work out on his own but Beast doesn't do that much here, Hank is a much better scientist than he is a fighter.
He is stronger than hes given credit for but even if you say hes a class 30 (which I dont believe he is) hes still not got enough to put Hercules down.
A drunken and drugged immortal Herc was beating the crap out of Wrecker, Piledriver, Thunderball, Mr Hyde, Tiger Shark and Bulldozer until Goliath blindsided him.
So if an immortal Hercules who has been given enough drugs to knock out a bull elephant for a week and is also drunk as your crazy dancing uncle at a wedding can take it to 6 superhumans with strength levels from class 10 right up to class 70, what do you think hes capable of when hes sober?
Lets also not forget that Hank without his powers is a pretty shabby fighter, when he was in that superhuman prison, where the inmates had no powers, crusher creel beat him like a red headed step child!
Beast's powers keep him alive in this but really hes nothing but an annoyance to the son of Zeus.
Hercules weak spot is his brains he is a dullard. Colossus is smarter and Colossus has also stood toe to toe with Gladiator who is as strong and as tough as Hercules although Gladiator did win because Colossus fell when a building fell on top of both of them that's also kinda silly in the fact just how durable Colossus is. Colossus as of now lifts 100 tons I believe.
Hes a braggart and has a hot temper I will give you and hes not the most diplomatic or intelligent guy on the planet.
But in combat hes no dullard, he lives to fight! again, I stated Colossus could go toe to toe with him but he wouldn't win.
And immortal Hercules is so far above 100 tons, its not even funny...I don't know what your trying to achieve by telling me that Colossus is smarter (granted he is, in a combat situation though 3000 years of fighting experience is more useful).
That he stood toe to toe with Gladiator (I already know this)
That hes durable (I even stated he was more durable than Herc in my post)
That he lifts 100 tons (I would say he lifts more than that)
Facts remain:
Hercules is more than just a dumb brick in combat, look how he fought the Hulk when he was mortal, granted he lost but he was way below the Hulk power wise at this point but his experience, speed and wrestling skills kept that fight going longer than it should have.
Hes faster than Colossus, you think Colossus could show the agility and speed Hercules did when he showed Spiderman what he could do?
He is stronger than Colossus, unless your telling me Colossus is on a par with Thor?
He has 3,000 years worth of experience backing him up.
Facts are, Colossus would stand with Herc and give him quite the fight BUT he is ultimately outmatched.
Your talking about a guy that has stalemated Thor, stalemated Hulk, beaten the living hell out of the wrecking crew, walked through most of the masters of evil's strong men even when drugged.
Knocked out the abomination in one shot, while mortal! fought three of the mole man's monsters singlehanded, while mortal.
Towed a Shield carrier while mortal, etc etc etc, your OP said you could see Beast and Colossus taking a few wins. I agreed with you and said it would be 8/10.
Now it seems like your arguing Colossus can take this?
I am saying they thats they could maybe come up with something but then again Juggernaut took out Colossus in what four shots. I believe Classic Juggernaut is maybe equal to Hercules strength and if higher not by much.
Gender: Unspecified Location: Under Spidey's Fist.
Uh, Hulk's dumb as a sack of bricks. He (Hulk) Isn't a very skilled fighters, well maybe after Planet Hulk he is, but at that point he really wasn't.
Agility & Speed are different things. Colossus does have some degree of Superhuman speed. As does Hercules too. Besides, We've seen Colossus do some flips as well.
I'd say it depends wether you consider low showings or not. I doubt that Colossus is strong as Herc, or Thor, but strong enough to trade blows with them.
Granted, but IMO experience is overrated, and wasn't Herc at the mount Olympus with the other gods?
True, but Hank's not a non factor. He's a very good fighter. The issue with him getting beaten by Wrecker was pretty bad writing. He's used nerve strikes & pressure points A LOT, even against durable bricks. He's also faster & more agile than Colossus or Hercules. He's tangled with Colossus before. He also fared quite well against Wolverine last time they fought, can I say the same about Herc..?
I have no idea about Beast's strenght. It apparently varies A LOT.
I do agree that Herc would take the majority, but it wouldn't be easy. 6-7/10 for Herc.
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I never said Hulk was a skilled fighter, merely that Hercules skill kept him alive against a much more powerful opponet, as in it showcased that Hercules was more than a dumb brick who would slug it out with Colossus.
Well yes and no, Hercules can run at over 100mph and has the agility of an Olympic athlete, I would give Herc the speed egde
I would not argue for one second that Colossus couldn't trade blows with either Thor or Herc, I stated that he could but that he wasn't on a par with either. Seems you agree with me, as do most writers.
Well thats your opinion, experience counts for a lot, ask WWI or WWII fighter pilots, rookie and inexprienced figter pilots in WWI were called the "twenty minuters" because their average life expectancy in the air was twenty minutes, your aces were the ones who had learned how to win through experience.
Although I would conceed that natural talent plays a big part but imo Hercules has both. Yes Hercules was on Olympus for much of that time but are you telling me was just laying round eating grapes and drinking wine?
A guy like Hercules would have been either picking fights or training, Ares and Hera being there and hating him, would probably mean he was at loggerheads with them quite a bit.
I have never stated that Hank was a non factor, that was other posters, I said he couldn't take Herc down and that he would provide a distraction, allowing Colossus any recovery time he needed, while Hank is skilled his powers aid him, The Absorbing Man was a decent boxer and in prison with no powers, mauled Hank, proving that although he has the knowledge in his mind, his powers help him a great deal in executing his moves.
My point was and still is, that he isn't a top tier hand to hand combatant and that to take down Herc with his powerset, he would need to be.
His strength does fluctuate a lot, it has been as high as around class 70 when he was in Xfactor, when he reverted back to blue form and is speculated to be anywhere from class 1 to class 30 depending on your source.
I would say he was between class 10-20 currently, from what I have seen and I'm sure others would disagree and put him higher or lower.
Again, I have stated that with teamwork, these two could take a few wins, I have even said that Colossus has a durability edge over Hercules and is strong enough to go toe to toe with him.
Others have said differently, accused this thread of being spite and said 9/10 or 10/10 without any explanation as to back it up, I state that it wouldn't be that easy and give evidence as to why I think it would be 8/10 and all of a sudden, I'm the bad guy?
Or at least thats what I'm led to believe by you picking apart my post, this may just be me being over sensitive but who knows, vibes are tough to pick up on the net.
Even at 8/10 I wouldn't be saying its easy, I could at a stretch, see 7/10 but I think 6/10 is doing Herc a dis service.
But arguing over the win ratio is debating symantics seeing as we are both in agreement that Hercules takes the majority.
serioulsy, just because of my user name does not mean I am bias, I know when my guys outmatched, he just doesn't happen to be here.
Gender: Unspecified Location: Under Spidey's Fist.
He was barely alive in the end of the fight, besides. When he fought Namor, he seemed like a dumb slugger.
Where did you get that run speed from? Has he any good speed feats? How often does Herc utilize his speed in a fight?
Now we have to determinate how big the gap is. Is Colossus stronger than Mortal/Ancient Hercules?
There's a big difference here. Having 3000 years of experience doesn't really mean that much against (let's say: ) against 100 years of experience. Unless Herc has picked up some different fighting styles along the way, which we haven't seen. Of course he has the edge in experience, but I don't see how experience would count that much. Of course it would count if the other combatant was a rookie, but Colossus is no Rookie, neither is Beast.
According to the original mythos.. Well, yeah. That's what the "gods" usually did. Maybe he f*cked his wife for an eternity, or one of his boy friends. It is heavily suggested in the mythos that he was BI.
Hera didn't hate him, she let him mary on of her daughters. Not sure about Ares, but I doubt "full gods" clashed swords a lot in the "paradise".
I know, but I just had to state it
It depends wether pressure point attacks would work on Hercules. His skin isn't rock like. It's just inpenetreable, but still flesh like.
Wasn't that class 70 the "mindless" Beast? Who could sacriface intelligence for strenght?
I'd put him around Spider-man.
Would Colossus' punches hurt more as he's hitting with a steel fist? Of course depending on the puncher and all that.
No, not at all. You see, you're the only one to post something logical on this thread. Only one worth to debate with. Take it as a compliment
7/10, my last offer. Taking in the consideration that Pressure point attacks might work, as they've worked on a lot more durable guys.
Never accused you of being biased.
Or at least thats what I'm led to believe by you picking apart my post, this may just be me being over sensitive but who knows, vibes are tough to pick up on the net.
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I would attribute the Namor fight to bad writing, he shouldn't have been alive at all, trying to fight an enraged Hulk at half stength imo.
I like that issue though, because it shows Hercules trying to out think his opponent (not hard when your opponent is the Hulk granted) and shows that hes more than just a slugger.
I would agree Hercules is written as a dumb brick a lot of the time but there is more to him than that.
Handbooks, I have to admit I have never seen any decent feats from him though, I would put him on par with Olympic athletes or gymnasts for speed and agility.
I still think that gives him the speed edge over Peter though.
Depends on who's writing him and if Marvel haven't retconned out every "ancient" strength feat he had, if Hercules is half power as has been stated I would say they were actually very close, I would be giving a different majority if this was mortal Hercules vs Beast and Colossus.
Well Hercules has real battle, blood and guts wat experience, which I think would be useful against multiple opponents, after all he has taken on an army full of amazons singlehanded, you have to be very aware of your surroundings, when your well...surrounded!
Never said either Colossue or Beast were rookies, but even if you discount most of his 3000 years, he was training to fight from a boy, I think that gives him the veteran edge.
A little off topic but most Hero's were, being bi sexual did not have the stigma attached to it that it does now, in fact in some city states it was encouraged as they believed it built up warrior bonds.
Hera does hate him, unless Marvel have retconed that now, to Hera he represents her husbands infidelity, she tried to kill him in the crib, even during the avengers she conspired with Ares to make his life a living hell, Ares possesed Thor (Masterson version) and had him attack him, Hera IIRC set him up for heartbreak.
I wasn't thinking swords, although Trial by combat, isn't that uncommon in Olympus (Thinking Sif vs Hades, none fatal obviously) and as for Ares, he is very jealous of Hercules because he is favoured by Zeus.
Fisticuffs between these two I could see happening pretty often in Olympus and I can't see Herc sitting around all day every day for 1000's of years, hes an adventurer after all, I could see him spending as much of his time sparring as fighting.
That is just speculation on my part though I admit.
Fair enough!
Well, his flesh is much more dense than normal flesh, not rock like no but it would take a lot more force to effect his pressure points than normal.
Beast could do this I think, the question is would he be able to get to hit them?
Yes but after infectia had kissed him and he had transformed back into the "blue" Beast, he retained his intellect and said he was stronger than ever.
he then went on in that same issue to, hit the ground so hard it caused a minor tremor and one shot the class 50 frenzy. Later when X factor was on another planet, that was judged for destruction by the celestials, he took on a Giant who was said to have the strength to move mountains and beat him.
The Giant later claimed Beast was stronger, since then though his strength feats have got less and less impressive.
Me too.
Not sure, Cage is meant to punch harder than a normal class 25 based on his titanium hard skin, so it wouldn't be a stretch to say Colossus could do the same.
Fair enough, I just felt a little like you and golem were jumping on my head but ignoring the wilder claims!
I can live with that...
No to be fair, you didn't, I am just wary, that my username may cause people to believe I am naught but a fanboy.
Touche!
Last edited by Hercules on Feb 28th, 2007 at 09:07 PM
Actually if you look at the handbooks Colossus is faster than Hercules if I remember right. He has level 3 speed and Herc. has level 2. Colossus has shown some nice agility feats also. I'd say he's got Herc. beat on speed and agility but everything else you mentioned I agree with.
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KMC Community Forums
Dec 8th, 2006 12:57 AM
Taking in the consideration that Pressure point attacks might work, as they've worked on a lot more durable guys.
