Neither character has cis or pis
Both get 1 week to prep.
__________________ Quotes from Hia8:
"I claimed that the science is sometimes faulty."
"You don't understand. This is fiction. That means none of this stuff really happened."
"There is no writer to purposely ignore a character's natural ability just because it suits the story."
"in some cases because the writer knows that Character A will dominate Character B easily and refuses to allow this to happen for the sake of the story."
Thor prior to the king Thor/ ragnarok series
Basically circa 1990s Thor
__________________ Quotes from Hia8:
"I claimed that the science is sometimes faulty."
"You don't understand. This is fiction. That means none of this stuff really happened."
"There is no writer to purposely ignore a character's natural ability just because it suits the story."
"in some cases because the writer knows that Character A will dominate Character B easily and refuses to allow this to happen for the sake of the story."
With prep? apocalypse SHOULD win- Apocalypse is a super-genius, and he's sitting on an assload of celestial technology- Enough to be able to create superhumans with any powers he desires. Apocalypse can also teleport, so a BFR from Thor won't necessarily take him out.
His own powers also allow him to adapt on the fly.
Classic Apocalypse has soundly beaten loki without prep, and fought both ikaris and classic high evolutionary (!) though I don't recall the outcome of those fights.
Let's not forget Apoc also had enough tech on hand to turn Hulk into War Hulk, who would PROBABLY exceed Thor in raw strength. No reason he simply couldn't use said tech on himself if he saw the need.
I've never seen apocalypse teleport across dimensions, just over distances. It's irrelevant though, since 1.) Apocalypse has total control over his body at a molecular level and 2.) Can teleport.
Unless he's just standing there like an idiot and doesn't resist when Thor tries to BFR him, an offensive BFR wouldn't really work.
Think of it as- Thor uses mjolnir to teleport Apoc somewhere (outside the dimension, in a sun, wherever) Apoc feels/sees this happening, teleports himself somewhere else or back to his original position before the process completes.
i can't see trying to teleport a teleporter being particularly effective.
that's the thing, there are very different results of a "bfr".
apocalypse could come back if he was punched to like france or something via teleportation/trans-supersonic fight, but if he was trapped in another dimension by thor without technology to get back...he's done.
trans-dimensional bfr is second only time line bfr in terms of never getting back to the fight feasibly, these two things classic thor could do easily (though immortus and the time keepers removed his time manip later)
thor has different methods to transport people and objects places.
in the past he has fired beams that can teleport from mjolnir, kinda like a godly smiting. he has also, and more frequently created a vortex that teleported things just by spinning mjolnir around at a cirtain speed and motion. ( and in the past he could displace objects in time by spinning mjolnir slightly differently).
he's teleported the destroyer to asgard with a vortex so there isn't a power limit to whom can be transported.
__________________
Last edited by psycho gundam on Nov 27th, 2008 at 03:51 PM
okay, since the bfr seems to be a major sticking point, lets remove it then.
how would apoc/thor do without the bfr?
__________________ Quotes from Hia8:
"I claimed that the science is sometimes faulty."
"You don't understand. This is fiction. That means none of this stuff really happened."
"There is no writer to purposely ignore a character's natural ability just because it suits the story."
"in some cases because the writer knows that Character A will dominate Character B easily and refuses to allow this to happen for the sake of the story."
That's the thing. Apocalypse has a week to prepare, and is certainly aware of Thor's abilities. It's funny you mention time line bfr as being superior to trans-dimensional, since we have here on panel evidence of apocalypse forcibly pulling bishop out of an alternate future timeline in Bishop: The last Xman #8 to a place of his choosing.
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Note that this isn't part of Apoc's basic powerset, but you're giving him a week's worth of prep here. There's a VERY good argument that if BFR were in play, Apoc has just as much ability to strand thor someplace in time he can't get back from.
But as far as I'm concerned, I'm content to reiterate that with a week of prep on his side, BFRing apocalypse isn't a working strategy.
IMO: with prep, the advantage is apocalypse's. Why? Apoc has total molecular control of his body. Why is this important? because apoc has at one point or another given himself nearly every superpower under the sun including superstrength sufficient to restrain the hulk...with one arm:
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and do...well..THIS to Ikaris. Note that apoc can reshape his body to avoid Ike's heat vision.
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Note that here, Ikaris can't break out of Apoc's bearhug, and Apoc shapeshifts a spike to stab right through Ike's chest. Had Ike not been an eternal (it takes molecular dispersion to kill one) This would be fatal.
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Here, Classic high evolutionary hits apocalypse with a full powered shot- it blasts out the wall of his space station, apocalypse just laughs through it. Note that this is the version of the high evolutionary that punked an entire avengers team that included immortal hercules, and briefly confronted Galactus.
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After HE fails to get the upper hand on apoc, he attempts to go invisible to avoid him, fails, and is captured and forcibly BFR'ed by apocalypse.
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Apoc is not only immune to telepathy, but is strong enough to mind blast Xavier. Note that Sinister, one of the other top 5 telepaths on marvel earth is his creation, and is deathly afraid of him. (not shown in this scan, but should be obvious to anyone familiar with sinister.)
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With prep, Apoc conquers attilan, home of the inhumans, and mindcontrols most of the inhumans there. Note that Psynapse is included, who is also a powerful telepath.
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Against Apoc's ability of total molecular control, note that superspeed is "worthless" as we see demonstrated against quicksilver.
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Apocalypse has also encountered asgardians and gods before. note his fight with Loki, who is not only fairly strong physically, but has enough magical ability to easily punk Strange.
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not only are loki's attacks ineffective vs. Apoc, but he quickly finds himself surrounded by machines capable of powerdraining him...uh oh. Note that this fight was INITIATED by Loki who sought to surprise/deceive Apocalypse. Apoc had no prep here. (or at least, no more than usual.)
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Loki escapes mind you and runs for it, ending the fight. make no mistake though- apoc was clearly the winner here.
In raw power, I wouldn't put Apoc substantially above the full power of Thor. The guy is monstrously powerful. Check my posting history, I give the man his props. what DOES break this in Apocs favor is the prep time.
Apocalypse is a super genius, and has shown the ability to create superhumans of nearly any ability from scratch. Look at his work in creating Moses Magnum, the Harbinger of Apocalypse, the living monolith, and War Hulk. Creating a being of Thor's level or simply increasing his own abilities PAST that point would be very, very easy.
On the flip side, thor has a lot less resources to work with- he certainly doesn't have apocalypse's (seemingly) limitless amount of celestial tech nor apocalypse's super genius intellect.
The advantage is clearly apocalypse.
Last edited by Space M ummy on Nov 27th, 2008 at 05:46 PM
Good post, but the one thing that always confused me about apoc was his bio-suit. He can alter it's structure on the automic level correct, so could Apoc pattern his body after somone like the hulk or even a eternal like Thanos?
apoc doesn't have a bio suit. he has a mutant body infected with a techno-organic virus. It just LOOKS like a suit. (well..sorta. it depends on which version of apoc you're using. some versions use host bodies but not classic or current IIRC)
since apoc has total control of his body's molecules, I suppose you could say he could shapeshift into a physical copy of Thanos or the Hulk, but those two draw on massive power sources outside of their own bodies that Apocalypse probably wouldn't have access to.
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Nov 26th, 2008 07:29 PM
