Current Sinister was able to hijack a guy more than 6 times as massive Godzilla , not to mention having a scale of power , which if we
were to compare to Godzilla's , is like comparing a grain of sand to the Sahara Desert .
Plus he also has an entire civilization(created in his image) backing him up , powered by the energies of that big guy I mentioned above .
A CC already enslaved the whole race of Celestials.
So the power of a Celestial is standard for Sinister now? I really feel that is obviously not the point of this thread, I mean you can do Godzilla vs Tiamut if that's what you feel this battle should be. Also Doom currently has an Infinity Guantlet so I guess he beats the DC universe with 4 minutes prep?
Meh, MS doesn't need this crap to make this a good match. Shame.
That was an alternate reality cube and alternate reality Celestials .
I am not saying that a Celestial's power is standard for Sinister . I am merely telling you that the most recent incarnation of the character has an entire city of Sinisters backing him up and their entire race is powered by the Dreaming Celestial's energies . Just some food for thought .
Just some nice way to turn the rules of the forum to ruin this match, yeah, I'm having eggs with that thought.
Some AC punked Galactus and several IGs so I think the argument "its alternate so meh" doesn't just fly anymore. The Cube has good feats, that's entirely off topic though.
The Celestial Trio better known as the Voltron Celestials. Being from another dimension doesn't mean Celestials are weaker, those Celestials punked by the Cosmic Cube still managed to communicate through the multiverse and through time with a Celestial from the 616 reality.
Yup , so three ACs now equal one ? And communication(that too through cumulative effort) means they are the same power ?
Again those were ALTERNATE REALITY Celestials punked by an ALTERNATE REALITY Cube . I'll concede to you this particular point , the day that happens between the 616 versions of these characters .
When the Alternate Celestials have the better feats, why not? This is about feats, nothing points out towards the 616 Celestials being stronger nor the 616 being weaker, unless you happen to bring new proof into the debate.
But to be fair I don't know when we started to discuss about the Cosmic Cube and the Celestials, since my original point was that they were outside power ups and that I didn't considered them part of what the character could use in a regular match.
What better feats ? Punking a well-fed Galactus ? They had to combine to do that . Tiamut's mere awakening caused Big G to sh!t his pants .
Franklin Richards at full potential is the equal of a 616 Celestial(don't believe me , go read Heroes Reborn) , and he alone was strong enough to kill 2 of them .
Again , what better feats do they have ?
As far as this thread goes , I was simply under the assumption that we should use the most current versions of these characters . Was I in the wrong ?
Not....quite, but we don't take (short-lived) amps into account.
Although saying that, its been a fair few issues now that he has had the Celestial in his possession - I mean, we take Johnny Storm's CCR into account these days, right?
In the most recent AVX issues , in which he appeared , he made a statement about using the Dreaming Celestial's energies that he had stolen , in conjunction with the Phoenix eventually(or some such sh!t) , for some ridiculous plot of his .
Note: This conversation took place between two of those Sinisters which were created when the original hijacked Tiamut .
So , I wouldn't really call it a short-lived amp , not when it is referenced/confirmed in the most recent blockbuster Marvel event .
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Last edited by TheGodKiller02 on Jul 1st, 2012 at 01:50 PM
Tiamut did worry Galactus, and so did the ACs to the fact he actually prepped against them while he didn't do crap towards Tiamut. So statement against facts. Also Tiamut didn't really beat anyone did he?
Rough estimations thrown randomly years ago against an actual combat between Abstract level beings. This is also you adding the "616" so it sounds as if this could boost the status of the regular 616 Celestials -that lack of feats-, because you work under the assumption that 616 Celestials are supposed to be stronger than their alternate counterparts. There is no proof of that or whatsoever, most arcs assimilate the Celestials as an uniform race through the multiverse, and the powerlevels the Celestials displayed in the recent FF issues are entirely according to the levels they've been suggested to have over the years. No reason to throw around that distinction. Franklin won because he's the hero, because he had to and because he did have extra help from Galactus/Young Franklin in order to win. He still dies at the end.
Fighting the IG, fighting Galactus and Franklin. What better feats does the 616 Celestials have? That's the better question.
Bleh, I wish a real Sinister fan could come up with his actual feats to debate this thread, I'm enough of a Godzilla savant to try to defend the other side. I don't think stuff like the Celestial power should ever be assumed no matter what is currently happening in comics, as I don't expect Galactus to use the Ultimate Nullifier in any random match up because it would go against the concept of the fight. But again, this is better if discussed with the mods instead of breaking our heads about the actual rules we should apply.
Except that , Galactus was never afraid of those ACs . And Tiamut destroyed the entire Horde , and he also beat Arishem(the fight was shown on panel in Gaiman's run . You can ask Guy for scans) . It took the whole freakin' 3rd host to put him down .
LOL at you for comparing those 4 loudmouth Mad Gods against one of premier 616 guys .
Except it wasn't a rough estimation at all . A pissed off child Franklin blasted Ashema and couldn't do jack squat to her . A fooling around Franklin(using only some of his power) warped one Mad Celestial's head into a bunch of flowers , and it took that Celestial a whole page to get rid of that warp .
When exactly did those ACs fight the IG ? Which issue ? Better still let me rephrase my question : When exactly did those ACs fight a FUNCTIONAL IG ?
Galactus and Franklin have been addressed above .
For other feats , lets think....um......how about one of thee 616 guys not even being budged by the combined onslaught of 3 skyfathers.
Another 616 guy casually
For other feats , we have 2 Celestials(Ziran and TOAA) ACTUALLY engaing against the IG(that too the classic 616 version) , using planets as ping-pong balls . For other feats , lets think more...a lobotomized Celestial's mere component being used to restoring Magneto's X-Gene which was being depowered by Wanda's spell(which had an omniversal scale of power then) .
Merely using the current version of Sinister . But I agree this Celestial related discussion is for another thread .
I agree that the comparision is unfair, but remember that this Mad Gods were no name Celestials as far as we knew, and that a single Cosmic Cube enslaved the entire race of Celestials -probably more than those that Tiamut faced-. Tiamut is indeed a named Celestial and the most powerful of them all, there is no point in arguing against him until we can accept the feats from the Alternate Celestials as more or less equal to those of regular Celestials anyways. Since we aren't still there, no point in arguing against Tiamut.
An alternate Tiamut did more than just scaring Galactus though.
First example: Franklin does nothing. Second example: Franklin does nothing. Let alone the fact of how difficult it is to compare reality warping to blasting in terms of how they should do, and also to compare Franklin after several years and more experience. If anything these feats show there is no significative difference against those Celestials.
So many Celestials being owned in different circumstances, and the skyfather feat which is one of the best for 616 Celestials as far as I remember. The Alternate Celestials did tank the Sol weapon too, even if its very hard to measure what that weapon did. I can actually get better feats from ACs than the Skyfather one, but will that even really change your position at all?
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Jun 30th, 2012 03:36 AM
