1. Hmm. Wonder Woman has a lot of experience fighting magic but she's facing a meaner, more cunning and physically tougher Circe here. And we've seen how much trouble the witch can give her. I feel like Wonder Woman would still win in a comic because she's the hero but not without assistance from her patron gods in some form to protect her from Loki's spells or something after Loki ruins her day something fierce.
F*ck it, I like Loki a lot more so he wins. He's a god, and she for all her power, is just a puny mortal.
2. Loki drops her in Mephisto's lair or something.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Nov 15th, 2013 at 01:19 AM
A lot of PIS occurs in comics (where characters don't use their natural abilities that are always on).
Diana is much faster than Loki and can definitely beat Loki in a forum setting in scenario 1. She has great resistance against magic as well as awesome defense in the bracers. Plus that lasso can do wonders here.
In Scenario 2, Loki can probably win if he thinks about BFR right away or soon enough. But it will be tough still due to Diana's speed and mobility. So this one depends on Loki trying for the bfr early enough.
Loki's illusions/tricks have even fooled the likes of Surtur, Mephisto in his own realm, and Odin. Wonder Woman isn't the only one with powerful capabilities.
She can definitely try but that's easier said then done seeing as how he can: Shape shift, astral projection, teleport, turn intangible etc.
And we're assuming the lasso would even stop him.
So? Loki's shown strength levels beyond even Wonder Woman herself.
Circe's good, but Loki perfected this game.
I was mostly kidding with that comment.
And Wonder Woman is similar to someone he has a great deal of experience fighting against. Except he doesn't have any of the emotional hang ups against Wonder Woman that he does against Thor which usually hamper him.
Also, Wonder Woman isn't immune to magic. Far from it.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Nov 15th, 2013 at 02:02 AM
Yea, all of those are powerful, but none of them are literally made-of-truth. No illusion, no matter how good, stands up to the lasso.
Also pre-reboot Wondy has the Eyes of Athena which are almost supposed to see illusions, but mainly the lasso.
Most of which Circe (Goddess of Magic and Shapeshifting!) can do. And the lasso's caught the intangible before.
For good reason, it's extremely powerful. The lasso is high-level hax, and it's contained Skyfafthers like the Shattered God, overwhelmed Ares, and the one time it was truly broken it unravelled the universal concept of truth in the area.
When has he done that? I don't recall him being *that* strong outside of being boosted by external artifacts, and, well, Wondy has boosting artifacts too if we go that route.
Arguable. Circe's taken the power from pantheons, transformed most of the male heroes of DC into animals, and so on.
She is extremely powerful and in many ways Loki's closest DC counterpart. If it wasn't for the lasso's usefulness against magic, she'd be pretty unstoppable.
Yea, they're similar, but Thor doesn't have the lasso, and Thor comes up well against Loki often enough.
If Thor had the lasso for a fight against Loki, he'd win solid too, imo.
No, she's not, but the lasso shuts down spellcasters when they're wrapped, and she does have good defense against it.
Says who? We've seen Martian telepathy trick her, telepath's mind raping her, we've seen Circe mind f*ck Wonder Woman through mystical illusions etc. So can we please stop pretending that Wonder Woman is just beyond such type of tricks when she's clearly not? Diana isn't infallible, neither is her lasso, and Loki is a master trickster.
The lasso is a fundamental force of truth but Loki is a fundamental force of chaos. His magic is so potent, he was able to capture, put in stasis, and contain Lady Death, a fundamental force of the Multiverse.
And? As far as I recall she didn't utilize any of this to escape or counter the lasso.
She got a Martian once. But we've also seen other Martians slip through her lasso with intangibility. Metamorpho was also able to turn into mist through her lasso IIRC.
It only held the Shattered God's form IIRC. Although I'd prefer scans.
Also, the Ares fight is so overrated from what I remember. Ares generally owned Wonder Woman and knocked her out with one attack twice. She simply got the lasso over him long enough that he changed his mind about what he was accomplishing. It was very clear that Ares was much more powerful than her in every way.
I'm not denying that the lasso of truth is powerful btw.
One of the instances I'm referring to, he had the Odin Ring manhandled Thor. But it was revealed that he was tapping into his own inner reserves so it's not the same as using outside tools.
We've seen him slap up Masterson Thor on another occasion. A mortal with a small portion of Loki's magic was able to create minions that could give Hulk hell in close combat. Circe's used magic to amp herself to Wonder Woman's level but her best is nowhere near Loki's.
Are we trying to compare accomplishments? If so, Loki's one of the few wielders of the Infinity Gauntlet, has take down Asgard, engineered the Acts of Vengeance plot and so on. Heck, the entire Bor storyline alone is more cunning then anything Circe has done as far as I know.
I agree, she probably is. I'm just saying Loki's better.
Diana is not, Thor. She doesn't have his advantages and Loki doesn't have his emotional hang-ups. Also, Loki has done extremely well against Thor at different points. He's lost as well, but that's what villains do.
Maybe. I mean, off the top of my head, Circe alone has one shotted Diana or taken her out like what, 5 times? She's hardly infallible when it comes to fighting magic.
Wonder Woman is not immune. Her lasso is. And the eyes-of-Athena thing is a late upgrade (during Gail's run) that bumped her anti-illusion abilities.
Dr. Psycho is an incredibly powerful psychic, and her lasso stops him. Whatever illusions Psycho, or Circe, or so on do, once she brings the lasso into play, that breaks them. Once she realizes she's against an illusionist, worst-case she can wrap it around herself, just like she did against the Children of Ares (who made Power Girl see her as a monster and messed with her mind).
She has a lot of his advantages. They're both better than Loki in close, they both have a way to block magic blasts. No emotional hangups vs her, but no illusion busting lasso for Thor.
Um, once the lasso's actually tied around her, I only see Circe doing physical stuff there.
When she's just holding it, yes she's still casting and such, but holding it doesn't disable further casting, only actually being tied in it.
Well, in all the examples I listed, she had her lasso on her, so ultimately, what's the difference? I mean, how many times has Wonder Woman telepathically incapacitated, knocked out, defeated and so on with the Justice League alone?
Dr. Psycho vs. Loki is like comparing a midget to a giant. I literally just posted scans that shows even individuals that are wrapped in the lasso can cast illusions against Wonder Woman.
I'm not saying that Loki would defeat Diana purely through illusion but pretending that he can't fool her with a few duplicates or have her attack an image is silly.
Seriously, there is more then one entire JLA arc revolving around White Martians deceiving the entire JLA (Including Wonder Woman) with their shape shifting abilities. It was Batman who finally figures out they are with fire.
The lasso is not always absolute. In one instance it was able to get a mind controlled Billy to say the name Shazam. In another instance it was all she could do to hold on to him before being thrown off IIRC.
In another, she was thrown lose by the God Thoth after seconds: (please log in to view the image)
And so on.
You know, Loki is ridiculously formidable in close combat at times. Surprisingly so. Diana will have even more trouble against Loki in close combat then she does against Circe. For example, him tooling the Disir like he did is up there with even Wonder Woman's best combat feats. Heck, he's even gotten the edge over Thor in combat despite Mjolnir with his firesword.
Also, the bracers are powerful defensive tools, but once again, they are not something that would be impossible to overcome. Even they aren't perfect as the comics have illustrated.
Again, that's not a given. Diana has powerful illusion piercing abilities, but Loki's magic is also ridiculously powerful.
What? The lasso is already wrapped around Circe in the first scan. Everything that follows after are Circe's illusions/mental manipulations that she's actively projecting while being bound by the lasso.
The only time I've seen the lasso stop Circe's spell casting is when it's used like an actual lasso. For example, when Hercules has it tied around Circe's throat and is choking her, or when Diana hog ties her. But that can be accomplished with pretty much any tough rope and Loki as I said, is one slippery bastard. Circe stays physical and corporeal but that's not one of Loki's limitations.
WW has all the tools to give Loki a hard time.
On the other hand it all comes down to how serious Loki is from the get go. If he tries to play around at first he goes down. If he goes for the kill I can see him win
It's a bad match up for Loki since he's outmatched in strength and especially speed, which normally isn't a problem for him but in this case, his main methods of hurting her, magic and energy projection aren't particularly effective on WW. Diana has proven to be particularly resistant when it comes to energy/magic based attacks due to her bracers and has deflected the Godwave, blasts from Nekron and Darkseid's Omega Beams. Physically however, she hasn't proven to be particularly resistant and can be hurt by magic and energy. Loki isn't going to be able to hit her and slip one past her guard with pure speed so this means he has to do this through trickery or illusion.
Which brings us to the crux of the matter, will his illusions affect her? It's honestly impossible to determine because they are in different universes with different rules.
Basically it comes down to: If Loki's illusions affect her, he takes the majority. He's shown that it's well within his capacity to kill her with his magic but her speed and bracers makes it near impossible for him to do that. But this is negated if he has his illusions.
If they do not, she takes the majority in both scenarios.
It's more natural for her to use speed (since common sense and FULL CAPICITY dictates it's always on) then it is for Loki just to start off doing illusions everywhere. It's no question that he can do these things but this is almost like avatar fight for him.
IMO, WW would beat him for a majority in scenario 1 due to her speed, great magical defenses, and physical advantage. She hits him and it is basically over.
In scenario 2, Loki can try to bfr, but how often will he think of it? Plus, it's hard to think when you are being attacked. And sometimes certain strategies just don't come to you in mid battle unless they are common sense on the most basic level. Assuming, Loki thinks about bfr then it won't be easy due to Diana's speed and mobility, but it's definitely possible. It's even highly possible that Diana can strike Loki at times before he can respond.
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Nov 15th, 2013 01:10 AM
Also, WW is an immortal Amazon with the blessing of the gods.
