1) Majestic is faster but Bill is more durable. Strength is a wash I guess. Bill's fight with Thor was a better pure hand to hand fight showing then I've seen from Majestic. This is assuming no flight so I guess split.
2) People seem to always confuse his Kheran Swords with the Creation Blades. The Creation Blades are uber against energy but his warblades are just very sharp. They haven't shown the ability to stand up to something like Stormbreaker and slicing and dicing won't hamper Bill's current cyborg body like it would other Top Tiers.
3) Bill but the dynamic of the fight doesn't really change from the second.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Nov 27th, 2013 at 10:05 PM
But....those aren't his weapons so I don't understand why that's relevant?
The Kusar blades are the ones from Majestic's armory unless I'm mistaken and the ones he's used most: (please log in to view the image)
I don't remember them blocking energy. During the end of the world, he used a giant morphing sword that blocked an energy blast but that was like for one appearances.
I could see him using the sword to block an energy attack or two, but what the hell are those swords going to do if Bill unleashes on him like Stardust? Not to mention that they haven't stood up to anything this powerful.
But those blades were specifically designed to absorb heat while the tradeoff is that they aren't as sharp as the Kusar blades. That's like saying any weapon forged by Asgard is Mjolnir level.
Bill's reflexes have proven to be apt enough to be able to tag Majestic with attacks. Not to mention that's not how he really fights.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Nov 27th, 2013 at 11:10 PM
Nemesis noted that her Kusar was designed by Kherubim masters(Nemesis and Majestic are Kherubim/Kheran themselves if you didn't know that) to "shave the rough edges off an electron", so I'd say it was about as sharp as something can be.
Majestic also noted that his arsenal of Kusars were crafted by "his race"(ie. Kherubim masters)-- and he made it quite clear that they were ALL created for a single purpose(which implies that they are all relatively equal): (please log in to view the image)
Aside from that, Majestic was Kherubim royalty. His Kusars would have logically been the best of the best.
Anyway, even if you don't like using Nemesis' blade-feat as evidence pertaining to what Kusars are capable of(which is silly, imo), Majestic's personal swords were still capable of easily cutting Majestic himself, flaying Spartan(/w/ Void) AND blocking his attacks... So any way you cut it(hyuck hyuck) they're still definitely sharp enough to decapitate Bill without any problem whatsoever.
And you believe Bill always fights like that? Hm, interesting.
That's a lot of words to just confirm my original point. If you want to make an educated that's fine but we've seen that Kherubim blades can be modified in different ways (Also confirmed by your scan) so assuming that they are all equal is just faulty reasoning.
And this isn't about which swords are the "best". Like I said, Zealot's swords are apparently not as sharp as Majestics but were designed specifically to absorb heat.
I did say they were sharp, didn't I? When did the blades block Spartan's attacks? He only brought them out when he was restrained.
Decapitate Bill? Based on what? They broke through Majestic's skin which is cool but that is a far cry from removing a head. And Spartan's body even with the main consciousness inside is nowhere near as durable as Bill in that timeline. Even Majestic was punching holes in him.
Not always but if you think that was a bit too high end then fine, pick a more average showing. But Bill has definitely used energy attacks far more often then Majestic has zoomed around dodging attacks by the nanosecond.
Throw in the fact that Bill's energy attacks are far more dangerous to Majestic due to his relatively mediocre energy resistance then speed would be to Bill based on what I've seen, then I think he wins.
As a matter of fact, when has Majestic ever used his speed to dodge an attack in the way you suggested? I'm not even messing with you, that's a legit question as I'm curious.
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^i'm actually just curious myself--do you believe the swords would fail to decapitate bill for some reason if the opportunity presented itself? or is it just because you've never seen them decapitate a being of bill's level? would you say majestic's blades are LESS capable of cutting something than ironman's energy blade which easily cut through worthy gargoyle? i'm not picking at you here, i'm actually curious.
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Last edited by leonidas on Nov 28th, 2013 at 12:55 AM
Well, we haven't seen them do something of this sort to someone on Bill's level and I'm not one to assign capabilities to something that we've never seen. I personally wouldn't be surprised if they could but a clean decapitation in a fight no less? That's silly. I think it would at least take some hacking away as Bill would be fighting back.
I mean, is it really so unreasonable to expect taking off a head to be more difficult then drawing blood from a finger? We've seen Warblades slash Majestic as well but I don't think they could decapitate Bill either.
If this is an execution and Bill is lying limp on a slab, maybe, but that's a whole different animal. I personally think it's pretty notable that in the entire time I've read Wildstorm, not once have I seen any of the blades (The various Kheribum forged swords running around) take off a limb much less a head of someone on the level of Beta Ray Bill.
"And shave the rough edges off an electron." Not sure why you think it is any less sharp than Majestic's Kusars, but I guess it really doesn't matter.
When he fought Spartan+Nemesis+Maul, etc.
Majestic is, by all accounts, Superman-level across the board-- yet the simple act of him lightly touching the Kusar blade cut his finger open. That said, if you don't think a full-fledged slash from a sword THAT sharp, delivered by a guy strong enough to physically move planets with ease, is sufficient to cleave-off Bill's head, then you have a MUCH higher opinion of his durability then I do. Frankly, I'm curious what piercing/cutting-resistance feats Bill has which led you to that conclusion..?
Not always, is right.
Mediocre energy resistance, eh? Tanking Spartan /w/ Void-power and Fortress Mode Eradicator detonating in his face is mediocre, iyo? Interesting.
Listen, I don't care if you think Bill wins. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. But let's not start trying to downplay Majestic just to make Bill look better. I could do the same to Bill, but there is no reason to.
The only time he really 'needed' that type of perception/reaction speed was to counter Spartan's teleportation melee-- which he did. He's also shown the ability to perceive/process information on that level a few other times, but those would be secondary. Point is: he can think, he can perceive, and he can react at those speeds. If a head-on assault wasn't working very well against Bill, Majestic would use his speed-edge, just like he did with Spartan-- especially in a forum/PIS-free battle. Unlike Superman, Majestic is a HIGHLY trained tactical leader who isn't afraid to hurt or kill his opponents-- he actually uses his powers efficiently in battle.
Out of curiosity, what's stopping Majestic from interfering with Bill's cybernetic programming via HV, similar to this?: http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/171...f_4-16.jpg.html
...Or are you one of those people who thinks Stormbreaker prevents Bill from ever getting hit by anything, ever?
Have they shown to cut him in the past? I think they have. He was dodging the swords of those Coda assassins pretty desperately so I’m guessing it’s a contradiction.
Do you have a scan or an issue number? If you had that example, why post feats for a completely different set of blades?
So what? He cut his finger, that doesn’t mean he can take off limbs from an opponent like Beta Ray Bill or even decapitate him. That is a huge leap imho. No I don’t, not in a fight. And those swords don’t counter Stormbreaker sufficiently enough to give him the win, assuming they can even stand up to them for very long. Khebrium blades have been broken in the past.
Well, using your logic, Beta Ray Bill is Thor level across the board without the less than impressive piercing showings he had in the past.
Maybe mediocre is too strong but he has been harmed, hurt, and taken out by energy attacks which I’d consider below what someone of his caliber should be capable of. And he doesn’t have the high end feats to balance it off. Even during Casey’s run when he was at the peak of his power, he was unable to survive the conditions of a Star without severe augmentations IIRC.
It was large enough to destroy his space station I guess but Bill hits with far more power I think.
I’m not trying to downplay him. I’m giving you my honest opinion based open observing his history. I’m not saying Majestic isn’t ridiculously durable or anything of the sort but he’s not on the same level as Thor/Superman/Silver Surfer and beings of that sort in this regard imho. I don’t think it’s in Majestic best interest to get hit by a lightning bolt from Bill much less a huge energy blast. If you want, I can go back through all of Majestic’s history and post instances that stick out extremely but I’d prefer not to. Outside of being tedious, I don’t want anyone with a grudge (*cough* Abhil *cough*) using it an excessive extreme.
Well, that's just not true, is it? You and I can both think of a bunch of times were such speed was ‘needed’ or could have saved his ass. How many examples are there of Majestic being tagged, hit, rendered incapacitated or even beaten by beings not faster than Beta Ray Bill (And some not even as fast)? More then him using that type of speed that's for sure.
He had an impressive moment, and I acknowledge he has the capabilities of extreme speed but Bill has tagged Surfer while he was flying faster than light. And he’s also a highly ruthless and skilled warrior. That doesn’t mean he’s going to be attacking Majestic at trans light speeds either. But whatever, if you want to go this route, Bill counters with omnidirectional attacks and his own massive speed.
.....Besides Beta Ray Bill not being a programmable 010101 robot such as the Eradicator and wouldn't just stand there while his heat vision got through to his core? Throw in the Asgardian magic, and well....
One of those people? It hardly requires a big leap to believe Bill would block heat vision with Stormbreaker.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Nov 30th, 2013 at 06:47 AM
So what? Lol, a Superman-level character lightly touched his finger to the blade, and he was cut. You don't think a full-fledged swing from a sword THAT sharp, delivered by a Superman-class being, can lop-off Bill's head/limbs? I couldn't disagree more. I ask again: what piercing/cutting-resistance feats does Bill have that led you to this conclusion..?
"My logic"? Lol, because comparing one Kusar blade to another Kusar blade is exactly the same as this, right? C'mon, man.
These are your opinions and you are entitled to them.
Let me rephrase:
That was the only time we saw Majestic cognizantly recognize that his opponent was out-speeding him, which made him cognizantly opt to kick his speed into a much higher gear to counter.
Yes, it was a very impressive moment-- but again: it's not the only time he's perceived/thought at those levels.
You talking about when Bill was atop Skuttlebutt, which was also moving FTL? That's not really the same as Bill standing in a fixed/not-moving position and tagging Surfer as he whizzed by at FTL, is it?
Nor would Majestic just stand there while Bill did some of the things you've mentioned. Just saying: it works both ways.
Sure he can. What I'm saying is that 'breaker doesn't render Bill unhittable.
Yeah, I mentioned that earlier in my posts but that’s not one of the Kusar blades. And it’s not a regular sword but has some kind of morphing capabilities as well (Turned into a mace and so forth).
I’m assuming he has a set of Kusar blades only in this thread as they’d probably count as standard, not every piece of gear he’s ever used, which wouldn’t even be practical in a fight such as this.
Okay, then agree to disagree because I think there’s a huge leap from slashing open a flesh would and taking off limbs.
He also took Silver Surfer's board to the back of the neck if you think that counts.
Well, it actually is the same type of logic. Comparing two different set of swords when one was specifically designed to absorb heat is no better than using Thor as a basis for Beta Ray Bill’s piercing resistance. But I was referencing you giving Majestic Superman level stats across the board (Despite Captain Atom clearly thinking otherwise) despite the two being completely different characters and Beta Ray Bill/Thor having far more in common.
There have been more then a few examples where such speed would have served him well and he ended up at a disadvantage.
He's always been ridiculously fast imo but that's definitely the only time I can think of him fighting at those levels. Which is why I don't believe it's reflective of what he'd do the majority of the time but that's just me. Feel free to apply this however you wish but do the same for Beta Ray Bill and all of his capabilities (Which are greater then Majestic's imho).
I only brought up Bill being able to bombard him with energy attacks. Unlike the Eradicator trick, it’s not dependent on a stationary enemy, and we’ve seen that energy attacks can be effective against Majestros and are more then capable of striking him. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that it would be easy or Majestic wouldn't dodge some.
While I’m sure it’s well within Bill’s capabilities to bombard the shit out of Majestic from a distance with energy attacks if he so chooses, he loves hitting people in the face and I don’t think he’s untouchable (Not sure who would). However, blocking energy attacks such as heat vision is something I’m confident to say he’d do more often than not.
Are you of the opinion that the various types of swords in the first panel of this scan aren't Kusars? http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/171...c07-17.jpg.html
I, personally, believe they all are(surely Majestic wouldn't have collected any measly earth swords.) I bring this up because Kusars certainly appear to come in all shapes and sizes, which is subsequently why I believe that the sword he used in the Spartan scene was a Kusar. /shrug
There is a huge leap between a small finger cut and an amputated limb, not denying that. However, there is also a huge(dare I say: huger) leap between a light touch of a sword, and a full-fledged/Superman-level swing of a sword. Feel me?
Still damaged him to an extent, though. That scene also proves that it doesn't take a speedster to tag Bill.
Lol, that isn't the same type of logic at all. Furthermore, I even said that if you didn't want to use the Zealot/Kusar instance, we didn't have to.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
He was still atop Skuttlebutt, which was moving FTL. It's not the same as if Bill would've tagged a speeding Surfer whilst standing in a fixed position, not moving at all. Surely you understand why, right?
'breaker's definitely uber. No one said otherwise.
Kay.
Yes, Bill is definitely more of a brawler who, relative to Thor, rarely ever uses 'breaker to its potential. And while I agree that Bill can absorb HV, if Majestic were to use it...in conjunction with speed...in conjunction with his Kusar...in conjunction with his physicality... Then Bill runs the risk of not being able to block said attack(s) fast enough to not be harmed.
I assume all of them are forged by his people's technology although that can't be proven. I however don’t assume that all of them are exact replicas or can match anything one blade does. For example, the blade he used in that scene was morphing into different shapes and was noticeably bigger. This clearly implies that it's different/superior to the slim and extremely sharp Kusar blade he's more prone to using.
I get what you’re saying. I however strongly disagree it’s enough of a jump to assume clean decapitations or limp removals in a fight.
Which is about all I see Majestic doing with his sword. Because that’s all his and every other normal Khebrium blade has done to anyone of notable durability as far as I know. Even opponents wielding the creation blades only ever cause wounds that wouldn’t slow Bill down. Throw in the fact that Bill unlike a pure organic can take ridiculous amounts of damage without faltering or bleeding out and it’s not tipping the scales. I never said Majestic couldn’t hit Bill like you were suggesting for Majestros.
Trying to give Majestic Superman level abilities across the board and giving his swords feats that don’t apply to them is somehow different than using Thor as a baseline for Beta Ray Bill? Whatever you say.
I get what you’re saying and he was near Skuttlebutt, but he wasn’t on its surface by the time he struck Surfer. Not to mention we have other feats that establish Bill’s reflexes as being right up there with nano-second perception.
Not really sure what Kusar blades would do to aid Majestic from a distance but if they were up close and trading blows, then heat vision would probably hit their mark. But so would a giant lightning bolt to Majestic’s face and they would be noticeably more devastating against Majestros then heat vision would be against Bill with his massive heat/energy resistance.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Nov 30th, 2013 at 09:14 PM
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Nov 27th, 2013 09:38 PM
Whatever you say.
