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Kasumi vs Ayane: The Final Round
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Snafu the Great
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Kasumi vs Ayane: The Final Round

Hayate, now the head of the Mugen Tenshin clan, has lifted Kasumi's death sentence and is allowing her to return home. He has Ryu Hayabusa relay the message to Kasumi, who is at the Sacred Wilderness Training Grounds.

As Kasumi is reunited with her brother, Hayate presents her with a test to see if she is worthy of returning back to the clan and to become the 18th head of the Mugen Tenshin.

All Kasumi has to do is to best her half-sister, the member of the Hajin Mon sect, Ayane (who has long since voiced her disapproval of Hayate's decision regarding Kasumi) in combat.

Should Kasumi fails in defeating Ayane, then she will be exiled from her clan (no assassin will try and kill her, on the upside).

ANYTHING GOES. NINPO ENABLED.


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 04:46 AM
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StyleTime
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Could go either way. They have both beaten each other before and both have taken down bosses (Raidou and Genra). Who ever beat who in DOA4 will be the winner of this match. Unfortunately, we won't know who won their fight until DOA5.


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 05:46 AM
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Classic NES
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If it's Ayane from DOA 3, she wins. Other than that, between the regular versions it's up in the air. I like ayane better than kasumi anyway, The Hajin-Mon side of Mugen Tenshin seems more dangerous to me.


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 05:55 AM
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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 05:44 PM
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Zack Fair
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IMO it's a stalemate. Ayane's Nimpo is lethal, but Kasumi appears to have the better fighting skills.


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 08:23 PM
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Snafu the Great
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I forgot to add this one vital thing.

This match has the most broken Ayane and Kasumi. You choose which one is more broken.


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 08:31 PM
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Zack Fair
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Ayane in a curbstomp. DOA2/Ultimate Ayane is the definition of broken besides Tengu. She's got speed, her back + throw(The one she slides underneath her opponent's legs) is mega broken and she has almost 62 moves to perform when her back's facing you.

No version of Kasumi can compare to that. Heck I'd say the throw alone does it.


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 08:40 PM
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Fallin Angel
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I'll say Kasumi. She just seems better in my opinion and she would be to determined to give up to see and be with her brother in peace.


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2006 09:16 PM
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StyleTime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Ayane in a curbstomp. DOA2/Ultimate Ayane is the definition of broken besides Tengu. She's got speed, her back + throw(The one she slides underneath her opponent's legs) is mega broken and she has almost 62 moves to perform when her back's facing you.

No version of Kasumi can compare to that. Heck I'd say the throw alone does it.

I'm guessing you haven't played DOA4 online Kasumi. It would still be a stalemate. Kasumi is easily the fastest character and online she has about the same recovery time as Hitomi. She can basically throw out any attack she wants without fear of retaliation.

Storyline-wise, they have both beaten each other once. However, Kasumi did take on Alpha-152 so Kasumi has the edge of fighting more overpowered opponents. On the other hand, Ayane does demonstrate more power with her ninja magic. It's really too close to call. It's basically Kasumi's skill vs Ayane's raw power.

Gameplay or storyline it should be an even split. Ayane 5/10 Kasumi 5/10

We'll have to wait until DOA5 to see who won their last encounter. Then mayabe we can revive this thread as that would be who wins this fight. They might have hinted it in DOA4 but I haven't played it in a while since my 360 isn't working.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fallin Angel
I'll say Kasumi. She just seems better in my opinion and she would be to determined to give up to see and be with her brother in peace.


She was determined to see Hayate in DOA3 too. That didn't stop Ayane from beating her though. Fortunately for her, Ayane doesn't seem interested in killing Kasumi anymore.


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Last edited by StyleTime on Oct 25th, 2006 at 06:37 PM

Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 06:35 PM
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Zack Fair
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Actually I have played DOA4 online, and I still don't see Kasumi as Ayane's rival in terms of Gameplay. Ayane's cheap tactics are still well above what a DOA player can accomplish with Kasumi--even with that toned down version of Ayane.

Storyline I agree it's a stalemate. They have both beaten each other on different occasions. Take a coin a flip it if you will might I add. They need to fight in DOA5.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 04:19 PM
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StyleTime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Actually I have played DOA4 online, and I still don't see Kasumi as Ayane's rival in terms of Gameplay. Ayane's cheap tactics are still well above what a DOA player can accomplish with Kasumi--even with that toned down version of Ayane.

Storyline I agree it's a stalemate. They have both beaten each other on different occasions. Take a coin a flip it if you will might I add. They need to fight in DOA5.

Have you played anyone who was good with her? Beating a noob Ayane wasn't hard in Ultimate just like beating a noob Kasumi in 4. Look up a guy named Vigaku. Play him and tell me Kasumi isn't borderline broken online. Even in DOAU Kasumi was still around Ayane's level. Her teleport gave her a free back raping combo just like Ayane's grab. Kasumi's back combo also did more damage than Ayane's if I remember correctly and her mid-level teleport countered ANY attack that wasn't low. She only needed to throw it out when she thought you were going to attack and didn't even need to predict hit level. At least you could jab or duck Ayane's predictable grab.

I heard Itakagaki say that the storyline was supposed to focus on something else other than the ninja/Helena thing. We may not get to see them fight again. sad


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 05:40 PM
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Classic NES
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All the ninja's are broken.


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Old Post Oct 27th, 2006 06:17 AM
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Zack Fair
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime
Have you played anyone who was good with her? Beating a noob Ayane wasn't hard in Ultimate just like beating a noob Kasumi in 4. Look up a guy named Vigaku. Play him and tell me Kasumi isn't borderline broken online. Even in DOAU Kasumi was still around Ayane's level. Her teleport gave her a free back raping combo just like Ayane's grab. Kasumi's back combo also did more damage than Ayane's if I remember correctly and her mid-level teleport countered ANY attack that wasn't low. She only needed to throw it out when she thought you were going to attack and didn't even need to predict hit level. At least you could jab or duck Ayane's predictable grab.

I heard Itakagaki say that the storyline was supposed to focus on something else other than the ninja/Helena thing. We may not get to see them fight again. sad


Yes I have played people who are good with Kasumi. Actually Ayane's grab was more cheap than Kasumi's teleport in my experience. Back in the DOA2U days all one needed to do was trick the opponent into pulling off the reverse/teleport and you had a free counter throw to suck away their life gauge. Ayane's throw coming from a block is nearly impossible to duck. Besides that Ayane's got the the Back + punch move that has insane priority and also juggles. Most of Ayane's damaging combos were fairly easy to perform to boot. A good Kasumi could give a good Ayane player a good match, but from what I saw in DOA2U Ayane players did take the most wins.

True they moved away from the ninjas, if barely. But he's working on a game, or will start working on a game someday, that stars none other than Kasumi and Ayane. Perhaps there we will find their final confrontation.


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Old Post Oct 28th, 2006 08:26 PM
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Classic NES
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Doa 4 in general is broke, the entire game is based mostly on offense. All the defensive applications are gone, the only way to evade is by character specific moves.

The game seemed incomplete, in alot of area's.


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Last edited by Classic NES on Oct 29th, 2006 at 09:58 AM

Old Post Oct 29th, 2006 09:55 AM
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StyleTime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Yes I have played people who are good with Kasumi. Actually Ayane's grab was more cheap than Kasumi's teleport in my experience. Back in the DOA2U days all one needed to do was trick the opponent into pulling off the reverse/teleport and you had a free counter throw to suck away their life gauge. Ayane's throw coming from a block is nearly impossible to duck. Besides that Ayane's got the the Back + punch move that has insane priority and also juggles. Most of Ayane's damaging combos were fairly easy to perform to boot. A good Kasumi could give a good Ayane player a good match, but from what I saw in DOA2U Ayane players did take the most wins.

True they moved away from the ninjas, if barely. But he's working on a game, or will start working on a game someday, that stars none other than Kasumi and Ayane. Perhaps there we will find their final confrontation.

Ein's back + kick, Hayabusa's forward+ punch, and Hitomi's forward+kick will stuff Ayane's punch back in her face. I believe Lei-Fang had a move to stop it too. Kasumi on the other hand can just teleport out of any of the aforementioned attacks. Ayane's grab is quite easy to jab and get a counter hit on or just duck under. I'll give you the ease of performing combos for Ayane though. Most of the ninja users are noobs so naturally the Ayane's in DOAU would have a higher win percentage.


Yeah, but Code Cronus is supposed to focus on their childhood I believe. Sounds interesting though.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Doa 4 in general is broke, the entire game is based mostly on offense. All the defensive applications are gone, the only way to evade is by character specific moves.

The game seemed incomplete, in alot of area's.

It's based on offense, not broken. It actually seems to take away the whole luck thing that was rampant in DOAU. A noob running around with Ein/Ayane could potentially get lucky and beat better players in those days. I've yet to see that happen in DOA4.


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Old Post Oct 29th, 2006 07:14 PM
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Classic NES
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime
It's based on offense, not broken. It actually seems to take away the whole luck thing that was rampant in DOAU. A noob running around with Ein/Ayane could potentially get lucky and beat better players in those days. I've yet to see that happen in DOA4.



It's more random than doau, the person with the most offense wins, your constantly in 50/50 situations, No garuantee, nothing is punishable, No priority, bad spacing, the only defensive property is countering. The game sucks.


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Old Post Oct 29th, 2006 09:45 PM
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StyleTime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
It's more random than doau, the person with the most offense wins, your constantly in 50/50 situations, No garuantee, nothing is punishable, No priority, bad spacing, the only defensive property is countering. The game sucks.

The person with the best offense wins. There are 50/50 situations in all of DOA. The lack of guaranteed damage in better in some ways. For example, Bayman's guaranteed ground grabs, Ayane and Kasumi's guaranteed back combos were bullshit when they were guaranteed. Priority made it far too easy since you could just throw out Ein's back+kick whenever your opponent did ANYTHING barring a Tengu move and be fine. Not to mention, if you just think of the fast attacks as the having the most priority in 4, it's about the same thing but better because you get rewarded for actually doing the faster move rather than getting beat out because someone picked Tengu. Unsafe attacks are still punishable by throw.

How is it MORE random? The top players are the exact same guys and girls from DOAU. Good players consistantly beat worse ones. I don't see the random here. When my 360 starts working, I'm willing to show you all how not random the game is.

We are SO off-topic lmao. We need a DOA sub-forum to talk about this stuff in.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2006 02:52 AM
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Classic NES
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime
The person with the best offense wins. There are 50/50 situations in all of DOA.


That isn't my point, the entire game leaves you with a defesive option that encourages guessing. 50/50 situations happen way more in doa4.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime

The lack of guaranteed damage in better in some ways. For example, Bayman's guaranteed ground grabs, Ayane and Kasumi's guaranteed back combos were bullshit when they were guaranteed. Priority made it far too easy since you could just throw out Ein's back+kick whenever your opponent did ANYTHING


Those moves were for punishing bs mistakes, Forinstance: when fighting Bass in 3.1, everyone knew you couldn't just throw out random moves at mid screen. Because he would just catch you in a buffalo horns, this made the player think beforethrowing out moves. In doa4 there are virtually no punishable moves, people can throw out whatever crap they want and no punishement.

Also, the risk and reward system is horrible. no garuntee damage means risking my butt only lands me an advantage which my opponent can turn around on me I.E. 50/50.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime

barring a Tengu move and be fine. Not to mention, if you just think of the fast attacks as the having the most priority in 4, it's about the same thing but better because you get rewarded for actually doing the faster move rather than getting beat out because someone picked Tengu. Unsafe attacks are still punishable by throw.


That's the problem, in doa 4, whoever has the most offense wins.
you can't win with defense.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime

How is it MORE random? The top players are the exact same guys and girls from DOAU. Good players consistantly beat worse ones. I don't see the random here. When my 360 starts working, I'm willing to show you all how not random the game is.



It's random because the oly solid defensive properties are counter spaming.

And the tiers online don't, bottom line is.

Online =/= actual gameplay
The engine is too delicate for that


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2006 03:17 AM
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StyleTime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
That isn't my point, the entire game leaves you with a defesive option that encourages guessing. 50/50 situations happen way more in doa4.

I can agree with the 50/50 thing. More disadvantage should be given to the player who made the mistake.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Those moves were for punishing bs mistakes, Forinstance: when fighting Bass in 3.1, everyone knew you couldn't just throw out random moves at mid screen. Because he would just catch you in a buffalo horns, this made the player think beforethrowing out moves. In doa4 there are virtually no punishable moves, people can throw out whatever crap they want and no punishement.

Also, the risk and reward system is horrible. no garuntee damage means risking my butt only lands me an advantage which my opponent can turn around on me I.E. 50/50.

DOA3.1 was a different game. It had a much bigger emphasis on defense than DOA4. Again, unsafe move are still punishable by throws.

Also, priority was just plain lame. Moves that will beat out a much faster moves is what will break a game. Tengu wasn't banned because he was fast or had an insane defense. He was banned because he had too much priority. Do you honestly believe the DOA series is better off with priority trumping speed?
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
That's the problem, in doa 4, whoever has the most offense wins.
you can't win with defense.

Yes, whoever has the better offense will win, but that is what the game is. You just have to play differently. It doesn't make the game worse.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
It's random because the oly solid defensive properties are counter spaming.

And the tiers online don't, bottom line is.

Online =/= actual gameplay

Once again, the top players offline(coincidently are the same as online) consistantly win against lesser players. I consistantly win against lesser players. I'm sure you win against lesser players. The results aren't random.

I realize online has its flaws, but I'm sure as hell not traveling all the way down to the Throne of the Nether World to play. Also, by your logic, the results should be even more random online since most moves become about 50000x safer online.

I know some people diss online play, but these online players are the exact same people winning online tournaments. Offbeat Ninja won WCG, using EIN!!!, and he plays almost exclusively online. There are many others, but I don't feel like listing them right now.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2006 08:15 AM
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Classic NES
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime


DOA3.1 was a different game. It had a much bigger emphasis on defense than DOA4. Again, unsafe move are still punishable by throws.


The damage on throw punishment was toned down from Doa 3.1, losing 50% health for 1 blocked mixup generally discourages mixups, which is essential to Doa 4. However, in Doa 4 if someone blocks mixups and attempts to throw punish but, makes the wrong decision they will lose MUCH more damage than the 3 throws they just did to punish you.

The only advantage throw set ups give you, is the fact they alllow you to mount an Offense.




quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime

Also, priority was just plain lame. Moves that will beat out a much faster moves is what will break a game. Tengu wasn't banned because he was fast or had an insane defense. He was banned because he had too much priority. Do you honestly believe the DOA series is better off with priority trumping speed?



Priority means blocking and lots of it, If a character has certain moves that just cannot be beat it tends to make people block or space more I.E. When theres a move thats unbeatable when its out on the screen and its fast too you have to be defensive. Priority makes a game more defensive, when you leave priority and go with speed a player can attack with a faster move than yours if they know whats coming without the fear of you doing an unbeatable move I.E. Busting out a random offense is ok because there is nothing to fear anymore.

Which makes the game random, even if there are patterns, you are still guessing which pattern is going to come out next with no option besides spamming counter or taking the damage. The gameplay is way too fast for anything to be thought about or seen on reaction during a real 50/50 situation. In any fighting game, offensive or defensive, there needs to be at least a moment or indication that can be used in a 50/50 situation for the player on defense, to give them a hint as to what is coming next.

In doa 4, there is nothing because the engine makes it too fast, and there is no recovery space because the hitboxes and models have become too big




quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime

Yes, whoever has the better offense will win, but that is what the game is. You just have to play differently. It doesn't make the game worse.


It makes the game shallow, everyone know's it's harder to win with defensive strategy as opposed to offensive. In Doa 4, defense is taboo, which encourages random assualts that cannot be punished. I can throw out random offense as much and not fear punishment, except for throws which put me at a disadvantage because it sets up an Offensive


quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime

Once again, the top players offline(coincidently are the same as online) consistantly win against lesser players. I consistantly win against lesser players. I'm sure you win against lesser players. The results aren't random.

I realize online has its flaws, but I'm sure as hell not traveling all the way down to the Throne of the Nether World to play. Also, by your logic, the results should be even more random online since most moves become about 50000x safer online.

I know some people diss online play, but these online players are the exact same people winning online tournaments. Offbeat Ninja won WCG, using EIN!!!, and he plays almost exclusively online. There are many others, but I don't feel like listing them right now.


Online changes the game too drastically, why do you think the tiers online vs offline are so different. In reality the game cannot be played properly online, the engine is too delicate. The reason why doa is the laighing stock of the fighting community is because the players aren't will to travel for offline tournaments, they rather play online and fight so called "High Level" playersbased on a stupid ranking system. Only a few people travel, whenever offline tournaments are held virtually no one comes. There are to many casual players out their, And casuals do not build a competitive scene.


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Last edited by Classic NES on Oct 30th, 2006 at 02:38 PM

Old Post Oct 30th, 2006 02:35 PM
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