Round one: I don't roll like that. But as far as looking more girly, Kuja takes that (honest to God I thought he was a female for a little while). Maybe the girlier a FF villain looks, the more powerful he is... (please log in to view the image)
Round two: I haven't played FFIX in the longest time(gave it to a friend back in 8th grade), so I'm not exactly clear on Kuja's full power. I know it's said that he destroyed whatever the hell place Zidane was created from, as well as Terra if my memory serves me correctly. With FFVII having been made into a sub-series of its own in a sense, we see alot more of Sephiroth battling than of Kuja, but he's rarely if ever put in a full effort in what fights he'd been in.
Going THROUGH an attack, with help, does NOT = standing on a shoreline and surviving the direct, full force of two blasts.
Without Barret and Co. Cloud would never of even got that high, without Aerith he never would of survived. Now thats me taking it at face value, Aerith didn't have to appear, but she did.
Name one shot in which Aerith appears, where she don't help Cloud.
Also Trance Kuja >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normal Kuja
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AquaXKuja - Match made in heaven?
Kuja could teleport Sephiroth away = win.
Kuja could ultima Sephiroth = win. Unless you can display Sephiroth enduring a planet destroying attack.
Kuja could snap his fingers and summon deathguise again.
Kuja could open a dimensional rift around Sephiroth and close it, trapping Sephiroth inside. = win.
Note on Sephiroths endurance: ...well actually it Jevona's, remember Sephy is 100% Jenova....
In FFVII, Jenova who was impersonating Sephiroth FAILED to be able to take the black materia from the temple of the ancients. Considering the fact that Jenova was RIGHT NEXT TO IT proves that he/it did not have enough endurance to survive the temples collapse.
Ultima > Temple collapsing > Jenova/AC Sephiroths endurance.
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AquaXKuja - Match made in heaven?
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Both these bigots lose, this is just going to be another flame war when the fanboys exit the woodworks.
As for on topic since i'll just pick sephiroth because he appeals to me as the masculine macho character as compared to the puny feminine girly fagget known as kuja, thats for round one.
Show Kuja teleporting people against their will, thats why he needed the black mages to teleport people on disc 3, and needed them to go to a specific spot.
Sephiroth has stopped planet destroying attack before
Sephiroth is far faster and can instantly teleport, unlike Kuja.
Sephiroth can speedblitz Kuja
Sephiroth can TK Kuja stiff and kill him
Sephiroth can use the NL against Kuja and he'll be dead
Sephiroth freezes him stiff with a thought, and Kuja will be helpless.
LOL he was using the black mages to do his dirty work. Why would he do it, when the mages can do it for him? Kuja > Black mages.
I can easily say "That's why Sephiroth needed to use Jenova to accomplish anything in VII."
No, Sephiroth has held back ONE potentially planet destroying attack.
Once Sephiroth stopped holding it back, it was released. Sephiroth managed to contain one, NOT stop it.
Kuja can fire multiple attacks.
Kuja CAN teleport not only himself, but other groups of people, PROVED when he teleported them FROM ANOTHER DIMENSION.
WHILE he was not even in his trance form, and badly wounded.
Proof is found in the game after Zidane and Co. defeat Necron.
Show Sephiroth doing any of that to someone of Kujas power.
Thats why he needed to waste his time with that long arse sword of his instead of just killing everyone at the end of FFVII.
Sephiroth fans are such big-headed, know-it-alls that never EVER listen.
NL? Okay, Kuja opens a portal around them both and closes it. No NL for Sephiroth. Not that it's proven to do anything except make the sky cloudy.
Sephiroth freezes him stiff? Apart from the fact that you can't prove it, and it ain't going to happen....
Sephiroth freezes him, then Kuja teleports Sephiroths sword out his hand and uses his own TK abilities to impale Sephiroth.
Kuja blocks Sephiroths attempt to speedblitz with his barrier and then ultimas him.
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AquaXKuja - Match made in heaven?
If he could simply teleport anyone regardless of their will, he wouldn't have told them to go to the beacon before he teleported them.
Sephiroth didn't have Jenova do any of his "dirty work", it was Sephiroth who did everything in FF7, he just used Jenova bodyparts to transform into his image, he controlled all of them.
He nullified it, and held it there for months, his TK works on a thought, Kuja's Ultima isn't instant, Sephiroth speedblitz' him.
Again, show me Kuja actually teleporting someone against their will, when he was enemies with the party he couldn't teleport them anywhere unless they were in a specific spot, when he battled them he couldn't teleport them into a pit of Laava or anything.
Sephiroth stopped Holy, it's in the plot, this is AC Sephiroth with the power of the NL, Sephiroth is far more versatile then Kuja, Kuja only has magic, Sephiroth has the whole package, he has power of the source of magic, he has strength, and far more speed then Kuja
No, thats you. Kuja has no instant attacks and has shown no speed at all.
Show me him doing that, Sephiroth wouldnt get caught in a portal, you keep ignoring the fact that Sephiroth is far faster then Kuja, and anyone Kuja has ever faced. The lifestream helped disintegrate Meteor, it would crush Kuja.
You're ignoring the fact that not even Holy was able to escape Sephiroths TK, and at the same time lifted the entire 8 members of the party and tortured them, he easily brought down the top of the shinra tower in AC with a thought.
Kuja has shown no impressive TK abilities at all, Kuja countering Sephiroth TK with his own is just fan nonsense,
Kuja gets frozen and killed.
Kuja can't do any of this instantly, not even close. He's never anyone even remotely close to as fast as the people in the FF7 world.
Now, remember, this is while Kuja was badly hurt, close to death AND in his normal form. No telling how much more improved this ability is at his full power.
Sephiroth controlling a being that has no will left of its own is not impressive.
Jenova, by Sephiroths will, was doing EVERYTHING. Sephiroth just sat in his little pod in the Northern Crater, because someone, who will remain nameless, owned him.
If he nullified it, it wouldn't have to be contained for weeks now, would it?
He was constantly using his powers to hold it back, ONE ATTACK BTW.
I have already explained to you that Kuja can fire ATLEAST 4 ultima beams in one go.
Let me say that again for you: ATLEAST 4 ultima beams in one go.
When Sephiroth battles Cloud and Co. he couldn't 1-hit KO them through the back like Aerith, either.
Choose not to do something =/= Don't have the ability to do something. Sorry.
Correction: Kuja only needs magic.
No, Sephiroth has materia. Sephiroth, like everyone else in VII, has the ability to use powers contain in little balls, called materia.
MATERIA IS NO WHERE NEAR KUJA'S LEVEL OF POWER.
LOL. Sephiroth has SOOOOOO much power of his own he was able to summon meteor all by himself....
Yes, shown no speed. Because he don't appear in a movie.
Then again, the real Sephiroth hardly even moved when confined to the GAME, as Kuja's speed feats are.
Though, no matter how quickly someone casts fire on a fire flan, then won't kill it. Kinda need power for that. (Yes, also need another spell)
You keep ignoring Speed =/= Power.
Furthermore, I would put Kuja getting to Gaia, after destroying Terra, and opening a portal to another dimension, as quickly as he did, above what Sephiroth has shown.
....but thats me.
Im sorry, are you trying to pass this THEORY off as a FACT?
Gee, I though this was about facts, not about theorys.....
Okay... I theorize that Trance Kuja will teleport the sun right up Sephiroths arse..... ouch.
Your ignoring the fact holy was ONE attack coming from ONE direction, with ONE intention.... destroying Meteor.
I don't remember Sephiroth torturing anyone.... I do remember Sephiroth getting owned though, but if we are judging power by the ability to torture someone, then the Turks are in a league of their own.
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/...7midgar2il0.jpg
You mean this seriously damaged building, and barely standing building?
Even a vastly inferior Odin, from FFIX, did more then that. FYI Kuja is so superior to Odin, its practically a joke.
I would bet the Turks bomb did more damage to Midgar then Sephiroth.
FFVII: AC is NOTHING BUT fan service... you don't see me complaining about it..... oh, wait...... FRIGGING FAN SERVICE GARBAGE!!!!!!
I already feel better.
Since TK is based on will, then I think Garlands quote....
Garland: "But 24 years ago, I gave life to a Genome that was very much like you. His will was too strong to make him into a proper vessel."
... has some bearing here.
Back to theorys again? Alrighty....
Sephiroth gets comatose'd by Kuja's spell, then killed.
Also remember that this isn't against their will, nor were they moving, they were stationary. If he could teleport anyone regardless of their will he would've simply teleported them into a laava pit along time ago, or he wouldn't have needed them to go on the beacon in disc 3 to teleport them.
Did you not read what i said? It's Sephiroth doing it all, his body is in the northern crater, but he moves around the planet still with parts of Jenovas body, but its still infact, Sephiroth.
He neutralized it for months, a single attack that is capable of destroying everything on the planet, Kuja had to fire shot after shot before it got to that level. Sephiroth with a thought would neutralize him before even one shot fired.
he needs to charge it up first, he cannot fire them instantly, 4 beams isn't planet wrecking either.
And let me say this again, try reading this time, he doesn't fire 4 beams instantly, he charges them up first, and 4 beams isn't planet wrecking.
He'll get stopped before the charge, or while he charges, even if he fires the "4 beams" its not threatening to Sephiroth and he can stop them or avoid them.
The party had their guard up, Sephrioth battled them while holding back Holy, gameplay is induced, hell Sephiroth didn't even have a masamune in the fight. Kuja has never teleported anyone to their death or anything like that, he's never teleported anyone against their will.
Everything suggests that he cannot do it to people he's fighting / people attacking him, he's only teleported stationary people or people on a beacon, or to save someone. Apology accepted.
Magic isn't fast, Sephiroth is fast, Magic isn't instant, Sephiroth has instant teleporting, instant speed, instant powers. Kuja has to "cast" which has some cast time.
No, Sephiroth has the lifestream, which is what the source of magic is durr.
Who said anything about materia?
I think your confusing FF7 Sephiroth with AC Sephiroth, Meteor was in FF7, AC Sephiroth gains all that power after FF7. The thread title says AC Sephiroth, so that means its Sephiroth after gaining the power of the lifestream. So your "summon meteor" is irrelevent.
Uhh even in FF7 Sephiroth has shown more speed then Kuja
There's probably been alot more, but these are the only Sephiroth scenes i can remember
2:40
36:40, Instantly teleporting infront of the 3, then moving fast.
And then you have the speed feats in AC, Kuja has never has faced anyone even close to as fast, even Sephiroth weak remnants dwarf Kuja in speed.
Having far superior speed is a big advantage, especially when the character has both power and speed. He doesn't any of that instantly, his teleporting is opening up a portal and going through it, which is hardly fast.
What theory? That lifestream helped destroy meteor? Thats fact, genius.
Take your own advice.
You don't seem to understand proper physics, stopping force whether its going in one direction or the other requires the same amount of power to stop, there is no difference.
Sephiroth was torturing them while he held them all up with TK
Cloud: Sephiroth!!
Barret: Ugh! Is this... Sephiroth's power?
Cid: My...my body... I can't control my body... Uuugh!?
Red: My front legs...my hind legs...my tail's about to rip off!!
Cait: This is definately not good...He's way outta our league...
Yuffie: I, I don't know if I can...go on.
Tifa: Cloud...Cloud...
Cloud: Ugh...ugh...
The giant shinra tower in the last fight, he brought it down with a thought, and you think Kuja can escape something not even Holy can escape? Sephiroth did it as childsplay, Sephiroth is vastly superior to Odin as well, so Odin being mentioned is irrelevent.
What does your opinion have to do with anything? Nothing.
Sephiroths will is powerful enough to move physical and non-phsical things, so Kuja not being made into a proper vessel means nothing.
Unfortunately for you, Sephiroth won't be doing absolutely nothing while Kuja tries to cast, Sephiroth would take advantage of his far superior speed and instant teleportation, and slay Kuja from the get go.
That doesn't show anything, you posted 2 screenshots and claimed they are instant, how about a video?
Last edited by Terryc250 on Dec 15th, 2008 at 02:17 PM
Fail. I proved Kuja can teleport people, even if they're in another dimension, while he is critically wounded.
You can't prove it wasn't against their wills either, the FACT is.... and its quite simple to grasp, they weren't given a chance, it just happened.
Lets go over this BS again for you: He did it WHILE CRITICALLY WOUNDED, AND TRANCE MAKES HIM MORE POWERFUL.
Did that sink in? Do you understand? Are you CAPABLE of comprehending what I'm telling you, or am I wasting my time here?
W/E Sepy sits in his pod the entire game doing nothing himself psychically. Why? Because Cloud OWNED him. If Sephy can fly, move, teleport SO FAST......
Please tell me why he took the boat to Costa del sol.
Please tell me why we see him walking all over Gaia.
Emphasis on the SINGLE part.
Bugenhangen said it was capable, but we don't actually see it destroy a planet.
Ultima has practically an unlimited amount of beams, their really is no limit.
And again, ONLY THE FIRST BEAMS NEED TO BE CHARGED, and that takes 0-2 seconds. Thats exactly how long it would take Sephiroth to draw his blade.
After the first beam, kuja was capable of firing beams INSTANTLY, YES, INSTANTLY. Did I mention Kuja can fire AT LEAST four beams in 1 go, or did you blank that part out?
Read above for 1st part.
Again, I have to say it..... let me try a different approach....
Four beams is the MINIMUM amount of blasts Kuja can fire. No limit is imposed.
BTW if Sephiroth is so fast, please, tell me how Genesis was capable of hitting Sephiroth with a barrage of Fira's.
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Repeating my self is obviously something I'm gonna have to do a lot....
4 beams = minimum.
0-2 seconds charge time = Sephiroth's speed of drawing his blade.
Him getting stopped is your opinion, and I'm not gonna burst your bubble.
Ultima is not threatening to Sephiroth?
Are we judging Sephiroth's endurance?
Sephiroth(Jenova) who couldn't withstand the Temple of the ancient's collapse, which Odin is capable of reproducing, which Kuja is above.....
Sephiroth has as much endurance feats shown as Kuja does speed.
Yeah, I noticed that to.
Seems whenever Sephiroth is up against someone "with their guard up", he fails.
Zidane and Co. had their guards up on Terra, did that stop Kuja from winning? No!
Zidane and Co. had their guard up at Crystal World, did that stop Kuja from killing them? No!
The only people that Sephiroth manages to kill, with their guards up, are regular humans.
Do you have A.D.D? I countered this already.
Unless you have something hardcore, I have proved he can do it to whoever, whenever.
*Above facepalm*
Dude, your ego is clearly beyond normal.
You talking about Sephiroth summoning meteor again? Yes, I know that wasn't very fast.
Sephiroth has "think" time.
"What move should I do now?" for example.
"Am I superior to this guy as well?" for example.
And my favorite, "Should I toy around with him?"
What are you saying? Sephiroth now has the ability to use any magic, any time? Sephiroth has to use materia to even use magic. Fact.
Magic in FFVII is limited by the power of the used materia. FACT.
That's more to do with the fact that Sephiroth needed to run away a lot.... and Kuja didn't. Not that I'm in a position to disagree with you.
Yes, they do. And like Sephiroth they have VERY little endurance shown. One little bomb owned Loz and Yazoo.
When it comes to endurance, like master, like remnant.
Who says Kuja teleported to Gaia?
Your basically saying that Kuja can teleport to other planets, which I won't argue with.... So, explain what Sephiroth will do it Kuja teleports to the moon, for example, and destroys Gaia.
Fine, fine.
Like Cait Sith said, they was out of his league. Compared to Kuja, they are also out of his league.
So, what does it prove? Nothing.
Yes, I know. It was in such a bad state that it was literally falling apart.
Odin's nuking of Cleyra >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sephiroth bringing down the front part of a building, LMAO, it wasn't even the WHOLE building that fell down.
Do I think Kuja could TP out the way or open a portal to another dimension to avoid it? Yes, I do.
Kuja destroyed Terra, it was childs play to him.
WTF? Try paying attention... I was talking about Kuja's will being to strong for Garland.
Kuja's will power is not that of a weakling.
You can't just assume that Sephiroth can restrain/freeze someone just because he can damage a weak building.
Just like he did to Cloud? No.
Not even when Cloud was about to Omnislash him? No?
Before you go off on a tantrum saying "Cloud's attack was UBERZ fast."
Instant = Instant. NOT ALMOST INSTANT.
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AquaXKuja - Match made in heaven?
Bizarro Sephiroth didn't need Materia. Neither did Safer Sephiroth(the only Materia being used by him, was the Black Materia attached to his wing, and he was only using it to summon Meteor).
Before you go stating your "facts" about FFVII, I suggest you to play the game.
Ah, and before you start screaming at me like the biased fangril you are, let me tell you that Kuja wins this fight, in my opinion.
Umm no, the fact that he neeeded them to go to a specific spot to teleport them, and the fact that he couldn't do it throughout the entire game suggests that he cannot do it to people against their will, or against non-stationary opponents. Trance doesn't make him more powerful in every single way, is he faster? No. Does he have more defense? No.
Psychically? He controlled all of them with his mind, that is "psychically". Why would he not take advantage of his powers? And why do you talk like Kuja didn't get "owned" by the protagonist of his game? Sephiroth got cheap-shotted by Cloud in FF7 from behind, that is not "owned". Kuja got owned by the FF9 party who has no feats to put them on the level of Cloud anyway.
Who knows why one of his bodies was on the boat. He had a number of bodies everywhere on Gaia.
Yes that "Single" power was stopped by Sephiroth, a "single" Ultima blasts isn't even close to the power of a "Single" Holy, that "single" Ultima would be stopped before he can fire anything else. Bugenhagen is basically the Guru of FF7, his entire role in the game is to explain the role of the lifestream, and tell the character information about the black and white materia, obviously he wouldn't lie for no reason.
It took him like 3 seconds to fire 1 shot, and each of the rest needed like a second to shoot. Sephiroth would have him frozen, and then right behind him in less then a second. If he uses his TK (which works on a thought) it would disrupt Kuja's 3 seconds to fire his first shot, and he'd instantly already be behind him and decapitated.
No, not instantly. Again he needed 3 seconds just to fire the first shot, which already negates your that Kuja can fire Ultima instantly. He'll be stopped beore he can fire a single shot. So it doesn't matter what he can fire after his first charge because he be stopped before the first charge anyway.
Again let me say this, read and comprehend it this time. Kuja will be stopped before his first shot even fires, Kuja needed a few seconds just to fire that first shot (few second < speed of thought)
Again you're forgetting that this is AC Sephiroth.
CC Sephiroth<FF7 Sephiroth<AC Sephiroth
Sephiroth when he fought Genesis didn't gain nearly even close to all his powers he had in AC. He was basically still human, and the fact that he wasn't even serious in that fight, he tanked the fires like nothing anyway.
Stop acting like a 10 year old please, thanks.
3 seconds = firing 1 shot of Ultima, More ultima = Some more time
Sephiroths TK = Speed of thought.
Speed of thought > Seconds required for Ultima.
Also, show me Sephiroth needing 2 seconds to draw his blade. Oh you can't? Alright.
No, him getting stopped is the logical view in this fight. It's like saying if we debated Sue Storm vs Hercules, Sue should beable to stop Hercules punch with her shield because she has stopped Thor's hits before, thats logical.
a couple shots of Ultima aren't threatening to Sephiroth because he is faster then them, and they aren't on the level of planet wrecking anyway. But he'll stop Kuja before Kuja even fires any nonetheless.
No, who said we're judging Sephiroth endurance?
First of all, thats not AC Sephiroth
Second of all, Who said FF7 Sephiroth couldn't withstand the temple of ancients collapse?
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Dec 12th, 2008 07:48 AM
