Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
That's a far fetched statement. Traitorous ship fire stopped him once. And if you think Marka Ragnos was weak for leading a whole planet of true Sith, including people like Sadow and Kressh, then you're mistaken.
actually Marka reigned over at least 1/3 of the galaxy (probably the unknown regions or something similar in size). I think that was the size of the sith empire and he ruled it.
About the battle, while Bastila's really a non-factor here, she was a ship commander, not a fighter, which is shown when she gets man-handled by Malak on the Levithan. So that brings it down to Marka vs Revan, Marka wins. I could state facts but I have said then a dozen times before so I will only state them if someone actually puts forth a GOOD arguement (not Marka sucks ...)
__________________ >>Antediluvian<< Stop the flood!
He would win though, I really doubt the effectiveness of Bastila her battle meditation against an ancient Sith Lord, and Revan alone just wouldn't cut it in this fight... At least not from what we have seen him do.
I didn't say he was weak. I'm just saying no one tried to fight him. He only dueled against one person for sure that I'm aware of and he did win. I don't count the "traitorous ship" as defeating him because he was preparing to fight the Jedi boarding crew and Sith rarely fire on their master's ships. He defeated the Mandalorians when it was looking grim, then he turned around and defeated the Republic whom he just fought for, then he turned around and defeated the Sith, whom he just fought for. Then he goes off to destroy the ancient Sith empire single handedly. That's what I mean when I say the whole galaxy couldn't stop him.
As for Marka, 100 years without fighting and he wouldn't be all powerful. Sure he was feared by all those Sith, but all of Iraq feared Saddam and he wasn't all powerful. he was a good leader like Ragnos. Being feared and being by many Sith (one of whom could cause stars to go supernova) isn't enough to make me think he could defeat someone who had enormous potential, knowledge, willpower, experience, and fighting constantly like Darth Revan. Don't get me wrong, Marka's not at all weak, but I see nothing he did to make me think he's all powerful.
__________________
Thanks to Janus for the great Sig.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
You're the kinda guy who needs a confession written in fresh blood with a video tape and eighteen witnesses, aren't you? There is such a thing known as logical assumption. And there is such a thing as stubbornness beyond hope.
Revan33, if you can't count the ship firing on him as a defeat, I'm afraid there is not alot I can say, you obviously believe Revan would waste all.
However, Malak did damage Revan to the point of death, if the jedi had not been there, he would have died, as it was he lost most of his memory. Yes, it was cheap, but the sith do not obey many rules, they win anyway possible. And yes that sortof thing does happen often, as soon as an apprentice sees an opening, they take it and kill the master.
What is impressive about Marka is that either nobody saw an opening, or they did but he was so powerful that even a capital ship firing on him would do nothing. Either way that is better than Revan.
And about Revan defeating the sith empire singlehandedly, well you are wrong about that, Janus posted a good thing on that in anoter article. I cannot remember it all, but Revan actually was trying to find a way the destroy Nihilus, not hunting down the sith empire. He does that after KotOR II, with the exile. And Kriea even says that the exile must go with him because he will need help.
Also, I'm almost ready to give up convicing you, but anyway, please read what you said, here it is, "Being feared and being by many Sith (one of whom could cause stars to go supernova) isn't enough to make me think he could defeat someone who had enormous potential, knowledge, willpower, experience, and fighting constantly like Darth Revan." Ragnos was feared by someone who BLEW UP STARS FOR THE HECK OF IT! Yet nobody tried to defeat him, even after he was dead and a ghost, he came back and the entire sith council, including Sadow and Kressh were so terrified of the guy that they bowed and obeyed anything he wanted. Also, his kind was hated, hated, it would be like a jew becoming the leader of germany during world war II and nobody doing a thing about it (no offense to any jews). That is the power he weilded.
And in the sith, it is reign of the strongest, thus he had lots of experience fighting to rise up through the ranks.
Earlier I said that Revan needed help to defeat the sith empire (as said by Kreia), this is significant because the sith empire now is weak, Sadow basically destroyed it. Yet he still needs help to defeat it, and Ragnos ruled over it during its height, the old sith empire under Ragnos would laugh at the current sith empire. Yet Ragnos ruled it and Revan needs help defeating the weak one, that alone should tell you that Ragnos wins.
__________________ >>Antediluvian<< Stop the flood!
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
I would be careful on that last point. The truth is we don't know the potential power of this new hidden threat. And it's been a millenia or more since Sadow. Things can rebuild. We'll know for sure later on.
oh yeah, I had forgotten that it was 1000 years since Sadow, thanks for correcting me
but I still think that the current sith empire is weaker since the republic destroyed the planet that most of the knowledge and masters were on when Sadow fled. What else remained Sadow took with him to Yavin IV where it was forgotten until the time of Exar Kun and after he died it was forgotten again. So the current sith would had to have started over with little knowledge from the old days.
__________________ >>Antediluvian<< Stop the flood!
Now everything I know about Ragnos is gleaned from this board and the various websites posters have presented. Hopefully, I know as much as everyone else to make this decision.
I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to Revan. One of my favorite characters in SW, not only do I just enjoy knowing stuff about Revan, but I've already sang his praises enough times in other threads to know what I'm doing.
So between a powerful Sith Lord who is remarked as one of the most powerful in the galaxy's history whose power has been seen (but not directly compared) to a powerful Sith Lord who was supposedly never challenged in a society literally built around treachery and power seizure (Revan33, the Sith don't care about powerful leaders; if the opportunity presents itself for an apprentice to usurp power for themselves, they will take it; the society be damned), but whose power has not really been seen, I call draw.
You're asking me to pick a clear winner between two of the most powerful beings to ever move through space and I don't think it can be done; this is a battle that would probably destroy an entire star system.
actually, the sith tradition is that the aprentice is supposed to challenge the master when he thinks hes strong enough to defeat him. that way the strongest will always rule. malak states that when you fight him on the star forge. but knowing the sith and how they act, i dont find what malak did surprising at all.
anyways, id have to go with wanderer. i like revan a lot too, although i dont know much about ragnos. but it seems as you guys are saying, that he was a very powerful sith lord. so based on what ive heard about ragnos froom you guys, and the fact that i dont know much about him, i say draw.
One thing Darkstar you said Malak defeated Revan, does that mean you think that Lando defeated Vader and the Emperor along with a million stormtroopers in less then five minutes?
Marka Ragnos vs. Darth Revan & Bastila
May 17th, 2005 01:21 AM
