All right, a battle between the fallen Jedi, once called Anakin Skywalker, and the leader of the Sith armada against the Republic. This will take place in the command deck of the Leviathan. Anything goes.
I'm new at this, so if you think it's a stupid thread, just tell me.
My vote's on Vader. Malak might put up a tough fight, considering Vader's limited mobility, but in the end, I think Vader's a better fighter + stronger in the Force.
Who's to say that Malak's lightning is powerful enough for Vader NOT to block it with his lightsaber? We've seen Obiwan do it to Dooku who didn't have a very powerful version of force lightning. Vader has that ability as well.
Actually I'd give the force advantage to Malak, considering he was quite powerful at his peak, and Vader's force abilities were severely limited in his suit.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
Well, but vader could kill his officer from a long distance apart, He blew a blast door with the force, twisted it and sent it flying, He has one of the most powerful force abilities like force crush, whom malak cant stand up against, Again his lightsaber can block malaks lightning
Vader did it to a non force sensitive, there's nothing to suggest he can use this maneuver on a powerful force user like Malak. Also, I didn't say Vader could block the lightning, I said it was possible. We'd have to know how powerful Malak's lightning was before making that assumption, but it is a possibility.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
true, but i doubt malaks mastery of lightning is as powerful as sidious, more of like dooku maybe.
And if vader can twist and turn metal and at the same time he could also pound a jedi with a huge red wood tree, i assume he could rip malak apart. Again not many jedis could defend against crush, jedis from the NJO can because luke taught them to push the force outwards forming a shield as luke demonstrated in DE
Malak, at his peak, was also regenerating in the Star Forge. He has no such advantage here.
Combine that with the fact that Vader can probably block force lightning, and is a better duelist, I'm sticking with Vader.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
Same here, vader has shown us far more impressive feats than malak.Taking on 7 jedi masters, carving through an army of wookies, twisting and blasting metal apart with the force, swiftly killing 4 jedi masters
Hmm, people seem to be seriously underestimating Malak here.
Saberwise:
Malak was stated by the masters at Dantooine to be a saber prodigy, most likely having mastered Schien or Makashi (judging by the way he fights in cutscenes), and with the exception of Revan, he seemingly outclassed anyone in the KotOR era.
The fact that he was so high up on the scales, in such a martial period which saw lots of jedi on sith action speaks volumes. He was also a frontline general for the jedi during the Mandalorian wars, and would have seen an extraordinary amount of fighting; in terms of battle experience he has a lot, and he had the type of battle experience that is very much beneficial to a fight like this - jedi on sith, lightsaber on lightsaber. Even in the Mandalorian wars, he would have received experience beneficial to his dueling skills as they used blades as well as blasters.
He was also a huge and physically strong man, and he was young and most likely in his physical prime.
And while we don't know much about what he did, we do know that he defeated Bastilla (who herself was no pushover, one of the top jedi), we do know that he defeated Kavar (the head of the jedi guardians, most likely the order's top duelist), and logic dictates that he killed a bunch of jedi as well. And he was also able to put up a great fight against jedi master Revan (who was said to be stronger than Darth Revan) on the Star Forge, granted he could draw power from the captive jedi. And while he was said to have lost his jaw in combat, logic points to Revan being the one who did it, as they were stated to have fought for the mantle of dark lord of the sith, and we know that Revan beat him; if it had been a jedi, they would have most likely captured him or killed him or something, whereas Revan would have use for him, so it was most likely Revan.
But really, the fact that he was in any way comparable to Revan speaks volumes in my eyes.
Forcewise:
Malak was stated by the masters at Dantooine to have been prodigious with the force, he knew ancient sith teachings (such as force drain as demonstrated on the star forge, and most likely other things such as force storm, thought bomb, probably had many sith artifacts and whatnot that he and Revan plundered from Korriban) and was stated to be not too far from Darth Revan who we know now from KotOR and PoD was uber.
He has demonstrated extreme force mastery such as using the force to lift two jedi up, choking the first one while blasting the other with lightning, then throwing his saber into the first one killing him while throwing the second back using the force. These two jedi were clearly very skilled having fought through much of the Star Forge, and Malak just toyed with both of them like they were children. I'd say this feat alone puts him high up on the scales.
He was also able to suppress Revan's precognition well enough to surprise attack Revan - this is extremely impressive, Revan's precognition was stated to be above the level of Echani masters who could predict the outcome of war years before they happened.
There's also the fact that Malak was able to rule above Nihilus and Sion, in a society where the strongest rule, so this must tell you something (granted they were both neophytes a the time).
Now I'm not saying that Malak necessarily has this, just making a case for him.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
Well we do know that vader swiftly killed 4 jedi masters with a stroke of his lightsaber and he ripped metal apart as if it was nothing, he even knows how to tap into an opponents mind and exploit their weakness, He proved that his force push is devastating when when slamed tark onto the ceiling against gravity and caysing a massive dent, He even demonstrated the ability to destroy and rip apart Tanks and he has been shown to blow dozens of soldiers back with his force push.EU vader would shred malak apart, it is alot of people who underestimate the mechanical vader, Those things i mentioned came from Eaw, and he could have killed up to 6 jedi masters quickly if it werent for that idiot jedi who back stabbed him during the purge. He ripped apart and blew a 1-2m thick blast door by just getting angry and screaming obi wans name, imagine if he had really used a technique to do so, and He was able to choke and kill his officer when not even being there
Firstly malak and revan NEVER knew sion and nihilus existed by the way, point moot
Force wise vader has been shown much more impressive featsthan malak, see above, Not to forget he pulls of alot of unexpected suprise attakcs by using his sorroundings as his weapon, He even smashed a redwood tree against the dark woman killing her, whom she herself is fast and a very deadly opponent
saber wise malak uses FORM II makashi, whihc would get pwned by a master of Djem so, who has been proven that makashi is completely useless against djem so, especially against some one who has incredible physical strength alone: Vader
Lastly he does not know the thought bomb and force storm, Do not make this up since there is no proof that malak knew all these techniques.
And by the way, weather or not malak uses shien or makashi, its gonna get wtf pwned by vaders variation of djem so,1) makashi sucks against djem so and 2)Malaks physical strength alone is lower than vaders, so contending djem so vs djem so where vader has the advantage
Last edited by BoratBorat on Oct 30th, 2006 at 03:22 PM
Yes, they did. It is stated in KotOR that they trained at the academy on Korriban. Nihilus exiled himself and sought out the Trayus academy when it seemed that Revan had died, Sion did the same when Revan defeated Malak and when the factions of the Sith on Korriban turned on each other. They both found Traya and were made her apprentices. Point unmooted, know you're stuff.
Key words - 'most likely'.
1. Malak's form is anyone's guess. I was stating that it was possibly Schien or Makashi. Now stop working under the assumption that it is definitely one of these forms, that is where your argument collapses.
2. Vader is unagile, slow and unskilled in the movies, I don't see how any master who is skilled and quick wouldn't be able to beat him in a duel.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
Wrong, Nihilus was a survivor of the mandalorian wars, hr only became a sith AFTER the jedi civil war, had he been around he would have killed and drained every one, try again No proof he had been around during JCW, And by the way, traya traned nihilus and sion ON malachor V, nihilus hasnever been on korriban before, And nihilus could wtf pwn his master with a simple force push and cut her off the force, Still think malak can > nihilus? try again
.You have no idea how powerful nihilus is so dont assume malak > nihilus, nihilus was the one who singlehandedly destroyed the entire jedi council after the jedi civil war
Then dont bring up assumtions he uses makashi or shien and we assume he uses makashi because of his one handed style
Prehaps i should tell you that he has shown agility and amazing skill in the flash back of Crimson Empire, and prehaps the stunts he did in RODV and the jedi purge killing 3 masters in 1 swift stroke? You cant build up excuses saying "movie" is higher canon when already it has been recorded that vader DID show us amazing agility even in his suit. And he was even able to choke a jedi, and lift him in the air while dueling 2 other jedi masters. Again vaders speed is decent even in the movies, expecially TESB when he was graceful, we see him fight brutally in RODV and The purge, how can a very very slow guy fight in a 7 on 1 match? Point is, he shows us how he really fights in the EU
prehaps you should read this
Around 3.5 ABY, Vader had ordered ASP-19 droids, lightsaber combat droids based off the ASP-series droid, produced to fight him in sparring matches. They were faster and stronger than an ordinary man, and programmed with the knowledge of a hundred sword masters and a dozen fighting styles. Vader defeated them time and again, and ordered a new, improved batch of them. As his finesse improved they became too easy to defeat, even in a two-on-one match.
Last edited by BoratBorat on Oct 30th, 2006 at 03:47 PM
Yes, he survived the Mandalorian Wars, and became a sith neophyte at the Academy at Korriban; it's all in the game Kadesh, do some research.
Don't tell me what to do. I'm allowed to bring up assumptions, just so long as I don't base my arguments on them, which is what you do.
And since when was one handed wielding a trait of Makashi?
Fact: If he fights any more quickly or skilled in the EU than he does in the movies, it is simply a contradiction and therefor rendered invalid. Sorry to have to break it to you.
Last edited by Dessel on Oct 30th, 2006 at 04:00 PM
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
try again, KotorII stated that he became a sith AT malachor V, he never appeared in kotor1 by the way
read this then, it shatters your arguements of nihilus existing during JCW After the war he was found by Darth Traya to be Force-sensitive, and she began training him in the ways of the Sith at the Trayus Academy on Malachor V. Disagreeing with his master's teaching methods, Nihilus, along with fellow apprentice Darth Sion, plotted and turned against their
master
Sorry to say you cant use that as an arguement, it has already been recorded and already been shown to us, Fact is, EU is where they featured how vader really fought. We saw boba fett die in the movies, and he came back in DE, so? movies are higher canon what. By the way, RODV CE and the Purge are all canon, as stated by leland chee himself, try again. What has been done has been done, you cany build up excuses saying it is a contradiction, so? mace waseen to be as slow sa vader in ROTS but in CW he is ridicously overpowered, obviously that is taken into consideration of how powerful mace is. Same with vader, The things he did in the EU has already been shown to us, weather you like it or not it has already happened, and CAN be used for an arguement, suit youself, deny it all you want.
And by the way, vader would tear through malak with the force, prove in Eaw he could destroy an entire platoon of tanks and wipe out an army of wookies in RODV, He was shown in CE flashback to did have agility and reasonable speed, Sorry, it has happened, it has been shown to us, And already it is canon, too bad you cant use it as an
Last edited by BoratBorat on Oct 30th, 2006 at 04:09 PM
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
Account Restricted
You brought this up. You claimed that in kotor1 the jedi said he was a student in korriban, dead wrong, he was trained by darth traya personally on malachor V
again, read this After the war he was found by Darth Traya to be Force-sensitive, and she began training him in the ways of the Sith at the Trayus Academy on Malachor V. Disagreeing with his master's teaching methods, Nihilus, along with fellow apprentice Darth Sion, plotted and turned against their dark mistress. They cast Traya down, stripped her of her power
Am i? sad to say it is you who is argueing against something which already happened and already recorded in SW history. weather or not you like it you jolly well accept it that vader did what he did in the EU. saying it is a contradiction wont help. We never see mace fight fast in ROTS, does it mean so? NO
Last edited by BoratBorat on Oct 30th, 2006 at 04:13 PM
Oct 30th, 2006 02:01 AM
