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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Anakin ROTS and Obi-Wan ROTS vs. Darth Maul and Count Dooku


Anakin ROTS and Obi-Wan ROTS vs. Darth Maul and Count Dooku
Started by: JaehSkywalker

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Jaeh
Possibly here.

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: May or may not be somewhere else.


 

Anakin ROTS and Obi-Wan ROTS vs. Darth Maul and Count Dooku

dunno if this is done already...

so.. whaddaya think?


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Old Post Nov 24th, 2006 05:50 AM
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Rampant ox
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Registered: Mar 2006
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Well, it depends on Anakin. When Obi-Wan is close by, Skywalkers raw power and anger arent displayed. This is why it wasnt until Dooku took out Kenobi in ROTS that Anakin had a nut and pwned him. So if the sith take out Anakin first, and then Obi-Wan I think they should win with relative ease. If Dooku or Maul takes out Kenobi then Anakin goes crazy and probably wins


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Old Post Nov 24th, 2006 06:13 AM
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((The_Anomaly))
2003 Super Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada


 

Obi-Wan easily walks all over Maul. Anakin holds off Dooku for a min or two until Maul gets owned...then:

*Replay ROTS Anakin/ Obi vs. Dooku fight*

Or if for some reason you didn't see ROTS, Obi-Wan goes down, and then Anakin eventually beats Dooku.

So, Anakin.


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Old Post Nov 24th, 2006 09:03 AM
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darthsith19
Arm-Wrestler

Registered: May 2005
Location: United States


 

Anakin beats Dooku (like he did in ROTS)
Kenobi beats Maul


OR

Dooku pwns Kenobi (like in ROTS but even more easily since Anakin isn't helping Kenobi)
Anakin beats Maul but doesn't pwn him

Kenobi dies first, then Anakin gets pwnd by Dooku and Maul together.



But I say the Jedi cause ot's most likely that Anakin and Dooku fight each otehr since they hate each other and Kenobi and Maul will fight cause Maul wants revenge.


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Old Post Nov 24th, 2006 05:40 PM
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-kV-
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Anakin wipes out Maul in twenty or thirty seconds while Obi-Wan is fighting against Dooku. Then Anakin comes and destroys Tyrannus.

OR

Obi-Wan wipes out Maul and Anakin pwns Dooku.


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Old Post Nov 24th, 2006 06:05 PM
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Darth Subjekt
The beginning of the end.

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't


 

The sith have no chance. Even if it is Dooku/OB1...i think it would take Dooku longer to kill ob1 than it would for Anakin to kill maul, so then as Ob1's body is falling, Anakin swoops in to kill dooku with he justly increased rage.

Other way around...Anakin pwns Dooku again, and helps OB1 finish off Maul, provided he just doesn't curbstomp him by himself.


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Old Post Nov 24th, 2006 09:04 PM
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darthsith19
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Registered: May 2005
Location: United States


 

Your kidding, right? All Dooku would have to do is chuck Kenobi acorss the room with the Force like he did in ROTS. So the fight starts, Dooku doesn't even have to ignite his saber, he just picks Kenobi up imediately, knocks him out, then he and Maul together pwn Anakin, cause I'm guessing Maul can hold off Anakin for at least 5 seconds one on one.


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Old Post Nov 24th, 2006 09:09 PM
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Darth Subjekt
The beginning of the end.

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't


 

youre kidding right? Since when has dooku been one NOT to toy with an oppenent? Its all speculation how he'd attack. We dont have a setting, how it starts, anything...Anakin could just choke Maul out and then go pwn Dooku...works both ways.


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Old Post Nov 24th, 2006 09:17 PM
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darthsith19
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Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
youre kidding right? Since when has dooku been one NOT to toy with an oppenent? Its all speculation how he'd attack. We dont have a setting, how it starts, anything...Anakin could just choke Maul out and then go pwn Dooku...works both ways.

Okay, let me make myself clear: If Dooku didn't toy with Kenobi he'd beat him far before Anakin beats Maul. And if Anakin tried to choke Maul, which he wouldn't since Jedi don't use Force Choke, Maul wouldn't just go down, he's still be able to atatck Skywalker, thus breaking Skywalker's Force connection to the Choke.


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Old Post Nov 24th, 2006 09:27 PM
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Jaeh
Possibly here.

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: May or may not be somewhere else.


 

riigghhht... setting. forgot.

in kamino, where obi-wan and jango fought.


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2006 01:03 AM
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Janus Marius
Plo Koon Rulez!

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies


 

quote:
Obi-Wan easily walks all over Maul. Anakin holds off Dooku for a min or two until Maul gets owned...then:

*Replay ROTS Anakin/ Obi vs. Dooku fight*

Or if for some reason you didn't see ROTS, Obi-Wan goes down, and then Anakin eventually beats Dooku.

So, Anakin.


Really, since when has Obi-Wan's style been about fast kills? It's completely defensive. He'd have to wait for Maul to make a big enough mistake and then cut him down. Meanwhile, Anakin has to contend with Dooku. If Dooku were using his force powers instead of just being a cardboard character-type fighter a la RotS, he could give Skywalker fits. Dooku could throw down with Yoda both in lightsaber combat and using the Force. Anakin couldn't overcome Obi-Wan even at the height of his rage.

Let's put this further into perspective:

(please log in to view the image)

Basically, Dooku throws Obi-Wan around like a ragdoll once he decides to put the Force-hurt down. I could see if Anakin masterfully outdueled Dooku and deflected a concentrated force assault, but that never happened. Anakin was unorthodox and strong-armed him, netting the win. Somehow, that translates into Anakin > Dooku in all situations (How, I'll never know). By this logic, TPM Obi-Wan > Maul in all situations. It's ridiculous to assume that in all scenarios, Anakin will beat Dooku, especially considering that Dooku's force power is more than a match for his.

I'll put forward that Obi-Wan is kept busy with Maul while Dooku turns Anakin into a pretzel. Then, the two sith lords have Obi-Wan Kabob.

quote:
Anakin wipes out Maul in twenty or thirty seconds while Obi-Wan is fighting against Dooku. Then Anakin comes and destroys Tyrannus.


Considering that Maul could down a bonafide Jedi master who had far more expertise in the Force and more training with a saber than Anakin, and the fact that Maul nearly downed Sidious in a mock battle, I'd call this a silly assumption. Obi-Wan would be utterly tooled by Dooku long before Anakin battered down Maul. Maul has matching rage and even more expertise with a blade. He's a very capable fighter and it's a pity he got so little showtime.

quote:
youre kidding right? Since when has dooku been one NOT to toy with an oppenent? Its all speculation how he'd attack. We dont have a setting, how it starts, anything...Anakin could just choke Maul out and then go pwn Dooku...works both ways.


Dooku "toying" with an opponent is a plot device; it's not a factor in a hypothetical versus match. We assume, for the purpose of NOT getting caught up in personal catches, that everyone here isn't emotionally conflicted or otherwise distracted, playing, or not taking the fight seriously enough. Otherwise, why bother?

And I'd love to see Anakin attempt to force choke Maul. That'd be hilarious, right up until the sith lord bisects his upstart ass.

quote:
in kamino, where obi-wan and jango fought.


Dooku throws Obi-Wan's body over the side. Maul leads Anakin around, trading blows with him until Dooku shocks the boy with sith lightning. Then he cuts him in two. End of match.

Old Post Nov 25th, 2006 05:45 AM
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ESB -1138
Sonic Speed

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Green Hill Zone


 

Oh Janus, how you quickly put display the feats and abilities of only those who you wish to win. First off you say Obi-Wan would have to wait on Maul to make a mistake because Obi-Wan knows Form III. Oh wait, he also knows Form IV as shown in the Phantom Meance and he was going toe to toe with Maul then. Now he has 13 years to perfect Form III and even has 15+ years of Form IV mastery at hand.

And here you are showing how easily Dooku tossed aside Obi-Wan. But what's to stop Anakin or Obi-Wan on doing that to Dooku? Heck Obi-Wan blasted Grievous back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XqKvKUTElA

And you say that Anakin is no match against Dooku in terms of the Force even though Obi-Wan and Anakin seemed evenly matched when it came to their Force Push contest. You seem to undermind the abilities of Anakin and Obi-Wan.

And you were just saying that Anakin a 24 year old couldn't contend to Mace Windu in the Best Fencer theard because Mace had far more skills, mastery of lightsaber, and power in the Force but yet you say the 20-28 Maul would take down Obi-Wan.


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2006 05:56 AM
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Janus Marius
Plo Koon Rulez!

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies


 

quote:
Oh Janus, how you quickly put display the feats and abilities of only those who you wish to win. First off you say Obi-Wan would have to wait on Maul to make a mistake because Obi-Wan knows Form III. Oh wait, he also knows Form IV as shown in the Phantom Meance and he was going toe to toe with Maul then. Now he has 13 years to perfect Form III and even has 15+ years of Form IV mastery at hand.


WTF?

Obi-Wan stopped using Ataru because he realized it's inherent weaknesses, especially against Maul. I mean, Qui-Gon was a Form IV master, and he lost his ass to Maul. I don't see Obi-Wan suddenly using the form to go offensive and go completely against the fighting style he practices for most of the series and many years in-universe against someone who skewered his master who used the same style.

That just doesn't follow.

Soresu is a defensive form. Look at Anakin versus Obi-Wan; it's the longest fight in the entire series. The style takes some time, even if the opponent were balls-to-the-wall angry and stupid as Anakin.

Maul is not that foolish.

quote:
And here you are showing how easily Dooku tossed aside Obi-Wan. But what's to stop Anakin or Obi-Wan on doing that to Dooku? Heck Obi-Wan blasted Grievous back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XqKvKUTElA


Did you read my post?

Force users can BLOCK force powers!

Grievous is NOT a Force user!

I just showed you an animated gif of Obi-Wan getting the ragdoll treatment, and it ain't the first time, either. And we see clearly in RotS that Anakin can't overpower Obi-Wan using the force, even WITh his rage in full effect. So it's a logical deduction to conclude that Dooku is mightier than either in Force powers.

quote:
And you say that Anakin is no match against Dooku in terms of the Force even though Obi-Wan and Anakin seemed evenly matched when it came to their Force Push contest. You seem to undermind the abilities of Anakin and Obi-Wan.


I can't believe you're this dense.

Let me reiterate this again:

Dooku overpowered Obi-Wan numerous times using the Force.

Anakin can't overpower Obi-Wan using the Force despite being more pissed off than a blonde trying to solve a rubic cube.

Hence, Dooku is likely much stronger in the Force than either of them. That is, unless you actually have a compelling counter argument. I don't think you do.


Was that clear enough for you?

quote:
And you were just saying that Anakin a 24 year old couldn't contend to Mace Windu in the Best Fencer theard because Mace had far more skills, mastery of lightsaber, and power in the Force but yet you say the 20-28 Maul would take down Obi-Wan.


The first part is evident: Mace is far more practiced in the art of the blade than Anakin. Many times over. More styles, more force powers, more time. Period. It's evident.

Second part is assinine. I made no such claim. Maul may not be able to take down Obi-Wan with his Soresu mastery, but at the same time Obi-wan isn't likely to blitz the sith lord and get a quick victory either.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

Old Post Nov 25th, 2006 06:24 AM
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zephiel7
Senior Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Canada


 

Again for reasons posted on other threads, I believe the Count and Maul would win this battle.


quote:
With Respect to Dooku's psychological advantage and superiour tactics; ROTS Novelization

Dooku slipped aside from an overhand chop and sprang backward. «I sense great fear in you. You are consumed by it. Hero With No Fear, indeed. You're a fraud, Skywalker. You are nothing but a posturing child.»
He pointed his lightsaber at the young Jedi like an accusing finger. "Aren't you a little old to be afraid of the dark?»
Skywalker leapt for him again, and this time Dooku met the boy's charge easily. They stood nearly toe-to-toe, blades flashing faster than the eye could see, but Skywalker had lost his edge: a simple taunt was all that had been required to shift the focus of his attention from winning the fight

Dooku allowed himself to relax; he felt that spirit of playfulness coming over him again as he and Skywalker spun 'round
each other in their lethal dance. Whatever fun was to be had, he should enjoy while he could.
Then Sidious, for some reason, decided to intervene.


From the psychological standpoint, Dooku was far superior. Anakin's psychological disadvantage was what lead to him being cut up by what you people call an [sarcasm]inferior duelist[/sarcasm].


And before people jump in and say "No wayzz!111... tehh poor little Ani was not fighting well because his wife turnt against him," I say look at the big picture. If we were to go by this argument (which I have not yet seen supported in the noveliztion, that Anakin’s fury was a negative impact), then Obi Wan is in an even worse position. He was striking down the boy he loved as a younger brother. Clearly his battle skills should be decreased. And yet, the [sarcasm] inferior [/sarcasm] duelist was able to win. Explain to me why the Count would not, given he was beating Anakin by virtue of taunts and superior tactics in the afore mentioned passage, before “Sidious decided to intervene”.


In summary, pure brute strength and teh PoWA! are NOT what determines who is the best fighter. Otherwise the whole intelligent fighting and tactics concept would be flushed down the drain. Overall, the Count possesses far more finesse in his duels, enabling him to defeat Anakin nine times out of ten.

P.S: I agree with Janus on the idea that the count, decided for some reason (hint) not to use his force powers. Logical inconsistencies. No waayyy!


I feel Obi Wan will defeat Maul, but with difficulty. The Count was shown easily flinging Kenobi around, he can do so again. If he isolates Anakin, I think he can win the battle if he decides to use the force properly in combination with taunts as he did on board the Invisible hand before Sidious' interjection.

Sith duo win.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2006 05:25 AM
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Advent
Just Leaving

Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Gone With The Wind


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by zephiel7
I think he can win the battle if he decides to use the force properly in combination with taunts as he did on board the Invisible hand before Sidious' interjection.


What do you mean "Sidious' interjection"? In the movie, Sidious didn't even intervene with a comment until Dooku had already been defeated, and lost both of his hands.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2006 08:01 PM
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-kV-
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Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:
I feel Obi Wan will defeat Maul, but with difficulty. The Count was shown easily flinging Kenobi around, he can do so again. If he isolates Anakin, I think he can win the battle if he decides to use the force properly in combination with taunts as he did on board the Invisible hand before Sidious' interjection.


Excuse me? But please, Count Dooku cannot just go out in the battlefield and do a Kick-Choke-Throw on the duo like he did in the Invisible Hand. Advent and I debated this fiercely , and you cannot just have Dooku jump between them in exact position and do what he did in ROTS. And please, he flung Obi-Wan only once.

And Anakin can own Maul. He killed Dooku in like what, excuse me, how much: thirty seconds !!! LMAO, Anakin can finish off Maul at the maximum of maybe 20 seconds . And don't give me BS that Dooku pwns Kenobi while Ani fights maul!!!1111 During my debate with Advent, we came to the consensus of forty seconds. Forty > Twenty, and eventually Dooku loses like in ROTS.

Now just to say this again: ROTS Duel can happen again. But Anakin will kill of Dooku like he did on the Invisible Hand. People claim that only in that scenario that Skywalker won, however I say not. When Dooku was kicked onto the lower platform, he was revitalized via Force. So when Anakin came before him with his lightsaber, he was ready to duel to the death. And that's exactly what will happen. Remember the duel with Yoda? Dooku only used the Force in the beginning and then went on all out lightsaber. Anakin can easily contend or block Dooku's Force moves and he has the speed to quickly engage in a saber fight before it becomes a Force duel.

I concede Dooku > Anakin in terms of the Force, but Dooku cannot just pull out the trump card everytime. In ROTS, he was able to do the Kick-Choke-Throw because of how things ended up laying in front of him. Perfect positioning. If this is the reason why people say Dooku >>> Kenobi, BULLSHIT! Then Dooku could have easily done the same to Anakin. There is no difference because Anakin uses a different form. Nothing, both were on his sides and both were in range of the attack. But Kenobi got the treatment not Anakin. By this logic, Dooku > Anakin, which is simply WRONG !!!

In this duel, Anakin either kills of Dooku and then helps Obi wtf pwn Maul. OR Anakin lays waste to Maul while Obi-Wan holds off Dooku and then the duo find a way to pull it off like they did in Revenge of the Sith.

General Kenobi off.....


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Last edited by -kV- on Dec 1st, 2006 at 09:37 PM

Old Post Dec 1st, 2006 09:34 PM
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Darth Martin
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Neither Anakin or Kenobi will be wiping out Maul. Yes, Obi Wan is all defensive and waits for mistakes, but Darth Maul doesn't make mistakes. But if I were the siths I'd have Maul confront Anakin. He can handle Anakins raw power better than Dooku could. And as we all know Dooku wipes out Kenobi w/ the force and helps Maul wtf pwn Skywalker.

Old Post Dec 1st, 2006 10:05 PM
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-kV-
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Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:
Neither Anakin or Kenobi will be wiping out Maul. Yes, Obi Wan is all defensive and waits for mistakes, but Darth Maul doesn't make mistakes. But if I were the siths I'd have Maul confront Anakin. He can handle Anakins raw power better than Dooku could. And as we all know Dooku wipes out Kenobi w/ the force and helps Maul wtf pwn Skywalker.


Umm yes Anakin can. Anakin demolished Dooku. Just because of that duel, I would give Dooku maybe twenty more seconds of survival. But Maul can't survive against Anakin very long. Anakin strength just slashes through Maul's saber like Kenobi did in TPM. The Jedi definately take this.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2006 10:12 PM
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Rampant ox
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by General Kenobl
Umm yes Anakin can. Anakin demolished Dooku. Just because of that duel, I would give Dooku maybe twenty more seconds of survival. But Maul can't survive against Anakin very long. Anakin strength just slashes through Maul's saber like Kenobi did in TPM. The Jedi definately take this.


Anakin pwned Dooku badly because he got pissed off. Now as zephiel has clearly pointed out in a previous thread, Anakin would not have become so angry if Dooku's mind games had kept working. The only reason they didnt was because Sidious decided to interfere. Now last time I checked Sidious has no part in this fight, therefore Dooku's taunts and mind games will kepp Anakin temper at bay.

If Maul fights Obi-Wan it will definatly be a long fight. Kenobi is a master of Soresu, which in case you havent noticed is a defencive form. This generally means that Kenobi has to wait for an opening or mistake from Maul before he can capitalise and take the victory. I dont doubt that he can do this and win, its just that it will take an extremely long time to do.
While that is happening Dooku will beat Anakin, just as he was going to do aboard the Invisible Hand before Sidious decided to interfere. If the battle plays out like this, the sith win, albeit with some difficulty.

If Dooku fights Kenobi, well, to put it simply Kenobi gets pwned. We saw what happened when Dooku finally decided to get seriois in ROTS and eliminate Kenobi, he was out within seconds. Now if Dooku was fighting his hardest from the beginning, there is no reason Dooku couldnt simply do the same thing, only much quicker. Maul will lose to Anakin fairly quickly, although I doubt before Dooku beats Kenobi. Then the sith will double team and beat Skywalker. Again the sith win.


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Darth Martin
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Registered: May 2006
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One of the main reasons Dooku lost to Skywalker was because of his lightsaber form:Makashi. It implies finesse, weak strikes and swipes. Where as Anakin's lightsaber form: Djem So implies the exact opposite, using strong concentrated attacks which counters Makashi. Strong>Weak common sense. Also it could be noted Anakin was faster and stronger physically. Dooku was very old and was being weakened and gettting tired very quickly. Anakin's power had infact doubled as he told Dooku.

Now having said all of that Darth Maul is stronger than Dooku physically. I would argue Maul is stronger than Anakin too. He's more acrobatic in his fights and also implies martial arts. Mauls lightsaber form:Juyo is like a mixture of Ataru's acrobaticness and Djem's raw power. How can Anakin overpower and tire Maul when Maul is if not physically eqaul, better and he usually duels two jedis at a time. So Maul can clearly keep up with Anakin.

Last edited by Darth Martin on Dec 1st, 2006 at 10:37 PM

Old Post Dec 1st, 2006 10:33 PM
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